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> Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods
gpstr
post Apr 28 2015, 01:42 AM
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I guarantee that it's not over.

Now Beth and Steam have weathered the worst of the storm, so it'll just be that much easier when they announce FO4, with paid mods, of which Beth will "only" take 35% of the cut.

I'm a cynic, but I think, in hindsight, that this was the plan from the beginning. I never could understand how they thought they'd attach a paid mod system to such a well-established free community, or how Beth thought they could get away with taking a 45% cut. A bit of Occam's Razor would imply that they never did expect either one - they just set the stage so that the worst of the uproar was directed at something other than their newest game AND whatever they do end up doing with that game will certainly be at least somewhat less bad than this proposal, so they can point at it as some sort of generous offer, made specifically to address the community's concerns.

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Grits
post Apr 28 2015, 01:48 AM
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ďWeíve done this because itís clear we didnít understand exactly what we were doing.Ē

biggrin.gif They got that right.

This is good news to me, too. Iíve spent too much energy on speculation already to want to keep guessing, so Iíll just play my game and finish my next mod. I hope there arenít too many casualties in the community.

Wait, I thought FO4 was going to be FOO, FallOut Online?

Juuuust kidding. tongue.gif


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mALX
post Apr 28 2015, 01:52 AM
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Bethesda Quote:


Some are concerned that this whole thing is leading to a world where mods are tied to one system, DRM'd and not allowed to be freely accessed. That is the exact opposite of what we stand for. Not only do we want more mods, easier to access, we're anti-DRM as far as we can be. Most people don't know, but our very own Skyrim DLC has zero DRM. We shipped Oblivion with no DRM because we didn't like how it affected the game.


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SubRosa
post Apr 28 2015, 02:38 AM
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QUOTE(Grits @ Apr 27 2015, 08:48 PM) *

Wait, I thought FO4 was going to be FOO, FallOut Online?

Actually there was going to be a Fallout MMO made by Interplay. But Bethesda killed it in a court battle. Fallout New Vegas was the result of another lawsuit Bethesda filed against Obsidian. I was not kidding when I said before that Bethesda loves to sue other companies.


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mALX
post Apr 28 2015, 03:36 AM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Apr 27 2015, 09:38 PM) *

QUOTE(Grits @ Apr 27 2015, 08:48 PM) *

Wait, I thought FO4 was going to be FOO, FallOut Online?

Actually there was going to be a Fallout MMO made by Interplay. But Bethesda killed it in a court battle. Fallout New Vegas was the result of another lawsuit Bethesda filed against Obsidian. I was not kidding when I said before that Bethesda loves to sue other companies.



I thought the Fallout MMO going to Obsidion was an agreed part of the original purchase of Fallout 3? (If I'm not mistaken).

Wow, I thought them calling Obsidion in on NV was so cool of them, had no idea it was the result of a battle!



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mALX
post Apr 28 2015, 05:03 AM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Apr 27 2015, 08:26 PM) *

That is good news.

h.e.r. Forbes ran this interesting article a few months ago. At first I thought it was merely ironic when all the paid mod stuff happened over the weekend. But it might be that useful feature. Still, I doubt Bethesda would have the vision, or enlightened self-interest, to do it.



Unreal Engine was released free to the public a few months ago. I have a copy of it on my new PC. It has numerous free tutorials on using it plus some free asset resources; though from what I saw they would be more suited to futuristic stuff.

Druid is building its new game on it.




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mirocu
post Apr 28 2015, 07:24 AM
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QUOTE(gpstr @ Apr 28 2015, 02:42 AM) *

I guarantee that it's not over.

Now Beth and Steam have weathered the worst of the storm, so it'll just be that much easier when they announce FO4, with paid mods, of which Beth will "only" take 35% of the cut.

I'm a cynic, but I think, in hindsight, that this was the plan from the beginning. I never could understand how they thought they'd attach a paid mod system to such a well-established free community, or how Beth thought they could get away with taking a 45% cut. A bit of Occam's Razor would imply that they never did expect either one - they just set the stage so that the worst of the uproar was directed at something other than their newest game AND whatever they do end up doing with that game will certainly be at least somewhat less bad than this proposal, so they can point at it as some sort of generous offer, made specifically to address the community's concerns.

Having watched how politicians work, I believe there is some good weight in this post...


*keeps guns locked and loaded*


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Callidus Thorn
post Apr 28 2015, 08:44 AM
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QUOTE(gpstr @ Apr 28 2015, 01:42 AM) *

I guarantee that it's not over.

Now Beth and Steam have weathered the worst of the storm, so it'll just be that much easier when they announce FO4, with paid mods, of which Beth will "only" take 35% of the cut.

I'm a cynic, but I think, in hindsight, that this was the plan from the beginning. I never could understand how they thought they'd attach a paid mod system to such a well-established free community, or how Beth thought they could get away with taking a 45% cut. A bit of Occam's Razor would imply that they never did expect either one - they just set the stage so that the worst of the uproar was directed at something other than their newest game AND whatever they do end up doing with that game will certainly be at least somewhat less bad than this proposal, so they can point at it as some sort of generous offer, made specifically to address the community's concerns.


"We understand our own game's communities pretty well, but stepping into an established, years old modding community in Skyrim was probably not the right place to start iterating"

This right here tells us that they'll be back, most likely with FO4. Then they don't have as much to deal with, because they can implement it right from the start, cutting out free mods entirely. They'll throw out something about how much they learned from this, tweak the numbers and promise to police it themselves, which would be far easier then. They can also just throw something into the game to stop mods working that aren't from the steam (doesn't)workshop. Then it's steam or nothing.


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ghastley
post Jun 12 2017, 05:57 PM
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Time to necro this thread, with the announcement of "Creation Club".

It could just be a way to finally get proper mods onto PS4, but it could just be the greed coming back to the surface.



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mALX
post Jun 12 2017, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jun 12 2017, 12:57 PM) *

Time to necro this thread, with the announcement of "Creation Club".

It could just be a way to finally get proper mods onto PS4, but it could just be the greed coming back to the surface.



Sounds like paid mods to me, I wonder WHO from our modding community was invited to participate?

* mALX starts ticking off names from the 2015 fiasco... *






This post has been edited by mALX: Jun 12 2017, 08:48 PM


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Jun 13 2017, 03:23 AM
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Well, they have said they won't be replacing the free mods already out but what about future titles? They are basically marketing these Creation Club mods as official DLC so there will be benefits to having them. The PS4 issue that Ghastly mentioned for one. Cleaner integration into your game would be another. That said, they will be doing stuff that we were already getting for free, so unless they curtail the free mods somehow, why pay for things you can get elsewhere for free? It just seems troubling to Khajiit.


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mALX
post Jun 13 2017, 05:42 AM
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QUOTE(TheCheshireKhajiit @ Jun 12 2017, 10:23 PM) *

Well, they have said they won't be replacing the free mods already out but what about future titles? They are basically marketing these Creation Club mods as official DLC so there will be benefits to having them. The PS4 issue that Ghastly mentioned for one. Cleaner integration into your game would be another. That said, they will be doing stuff that we were already getting for free, so unless they curtail the free mods somehow, why pay for things you can get elsewhere for free? It just seems troubling to Khajiit.



Ditto. I never felt like they truly gave up the idea of making back end money off the long term fans via paid mods; they just had to drop back and pretend they had in order to regroup and figure out a way to slip it by us without creating an uproar again. By renaming it and comparing it to DLC and not taking any existing mods (but still tapping into the existing modding community) = I see the same modders who jumped into the mix before suddenly coming out with similar mods with different names; or see (what I feared before) the eventual killing off of free mods or mods from any other source but Steam (putting Nexus out of business unless they want to handle the paid mods by the release of Bethesda's next games in the series of Fallout and Elder Scrolls).





This post has been edited by mALX: Jun 13 2017, 05:44 AM


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Jun 13 2017, 06:35 AM
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QUOTE(mALX @ Jun 12 2017, 11:42 PM) *

Ditto. I never felt like they truly gave up the idea of making back end money off the long term fans via paid mods; they just had to drop back and pretend they had in order to regroup and figure out a way to slip it by us without creating an uproar again. By renaming it and comparing it to DLC and not taking any existing mods (but still tapping into the existing modding community) = I see the same modders who jumped into the mix before suddenly coming out with similar mods with different names; or see (what I feared before) the eventual killing off of free mods or mods from any other source but Steam (putting Nexus out of business unless they want to handle the paid mods by the release of Bethesda's next games in the series of Fallout and Elder Scrolls).

Not going to lie, one of the best things about ESO to Khajiit is not having to worry about mods. For the other games though, they are part of the fun and it can be a headache sometimes (sometimes Khajiit spends more time checking and getting mods to work than playing the game). While this one is all for easier mod integration, he definitely would not want to trade free mods for it.


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ghastley
post Jun 13 2017, 01:32 PM
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My big worry is that they'll start restricting the Construction Kit/Set/Thing to their tame developers. So I, and SubRosa, and mALX, and many others here, won't be able to make their own tweaks to their games. More than half the mods I make are for my game only, and never get published.

The ONLY reason I play TES games is that you can mod them yourself. I moved over from Dungeon Siege when the third of that series had no toolkit, and so I lost any interest. No toolkit = no purchase. Daggerfall was a close call, as all the tools were third-party, but it was free at the time I got it, and I only have Arena because it was in the Anthology set.

So if this is a step away from a freely-distributed toolkit, it's also the end of the franchise for me.


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mALX
post Jun 13 2017, 01:53 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jun 13 2017, 08:32 AM) *

My big worry is that they'll start restricting the Construction Kit/Set/Thing to their tame developers. So I, and SubRosa, and mALX, and many others here, won't be able to make their own tweaks to their games. More than half the mods I make are for my game only, and never get published.

The ONLY reason I play TES games is that you can mod them yourself. I moved over from Dungeon Siege when the third of that series had no toolkit, and so I lost any interest. No toolkit = no purchase. Daggerfall was a close call, as all the tools were third-party, but it was free at the time I got it, and I only have Arena because it was in the Anthology set.

So if this is a step away from a freely-distributed toolkit, it's also the end of the franchise for me.



Exactly my thoughts.




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ghastley
post Jun 13 2017, 01:58 PM
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On the other hand, maybe it will be the end of silly crap like this one: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/84576/?

Wow! High poly! And it defies the basic laws of physics and the chains hang from the chandelier! While they won't be perfectly straight between the centre chain and the ring, you wouldn't be able to see the deflection caused by the weight of the links themselves.


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Jun 13 2017, 03:28 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jun 13 2017, 07:32 AM) *

My big worry is that they'll start restricting the Construction Kit/Set/Thing to their tame developers. So I, and SubRosa, and mALX, and many others here, won't be able to make their own tweaks to their games. More than half the mods I make are for my game only, and never get published.

The ONLY reason I play TES games is that you can mod them yourself. I moved over from Dungeon Siege when the third of that series had no toolkit, and so I lost any interest. No toolkit = no purchase. Daggerfall was a close call, as all the tools were third-party, but it was free at the time I got it, and I only have Arena because it was in the Anthology set.

So if this is a step away from a freely-distributed toolkit, it's also the end of the franchise for me.

And that's what Khajiit is fearful of; that they will curtail free mods by not allowing everyone to have access to the creation kit.


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ghastley
post Aug 31 2017, 02:59 PM
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I can't remember where I read it now, but someone was saying that the CC developers are constrained by their agreements from developing mods outside CC. I.e. no more "free mods" from those authors. It's all starting to look like the model for Uber drivers, where you'd become a de-facto employee without any of the benefits.

Who knows how many were signed up to prevent them developing any more mods, and then didn't have their proposal for CC content approved. Or find that someone else is given the job of creating their idea.

I'm glad I stayed away from it.

Edit: and here's part of an interesting post on Beth's Fallout Fourm.

"So here is what I see as a future scenario. CC will continue to force the ba2 etc content on to people's systems with a series of updates. On systems where the OS cannot actually be accessed directly, this CC content will gradually fill up all available space where free mods were stored. At that point the user will be asked to delete free mods to make room for more potentially paid content or the program will not run. Once the free content is gone completely, the goal will have been achieved. Paid mods or no mods."



This post has been edited by ghastley: Aug 31 2017, 03:54 PM


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mALX
post Aug 31 2017, 05:23 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Aug 31 2017, 09:59 AM) *

I can't remember where I read it now, but someone was saying that the CC developers are constrained by their agreements from developing mods outside CC. I.e. no more "free mods" from those authors. It's all starting to look like the model for Uber drivers, where you'd become a de-facto employee without any of the benefits.

Who knows how many were signed up to prevent them developing any more mods, and then didn't have their proposal for CC content approved. Or find that someone else is given the job of creating their idea.

I'm glad I stayed away from it.

Edit: and here's part of an interesting post on Beth's Fallout Fourm.

"So here is what I see as a future scenario. CC will continue to force the ba2 etc content on to people's systems with a series of updates. On systems where the OS cannot actually be accessed directly, this CC content will gradually fill up all available space where free mods were stored. At that point the user will be asked to delete free mods to make room for more potentially paid content or the program will not run. Once the free content is gone completely, the goal will have been achieved. Paid mods or no mods."


I heard that said too, I can't remember where either.

Your predicted future = That is a scary thought; but I can't say I haven't had it in the back of my mind since this entire paid mods fiasco first reared its ugly head a year or more ago. They caved too quickly then for it to be believable, I got the feeling then that they were just dropping back 5 yards to punt (taking a visual step back while actually they were just planning a new strategy).

One of the reasons I hated XBox games was the forced updates or you couldn't play your game = I used to let it update and then unplug my internet access; go to the hard drive and remove the patches; and stay offline to play.

But this has always been my biggest fear with (and why I hated us being forced to use) Steam being over our games we paid for. verysad.gif




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ghastley
post Aug 31 2017, 06:03 PM
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I don't see this as Steam-related in any way. It looks like they're trying to get around Sony's restrictions for PS4 and every other platform is suffering.


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