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> Doomquake, An ID Tech Thread
SubRosa
post Mar 23 2020, 06:07 PM
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Since Doom Eternal was released just a few days ago, I decided to make a topic to talk Doom and Quake games (and any other ID games). Doom Eternal got me in a Doom mood. So naturally I did not buy it! laugh.gif Instead I went back to the original games.

Gog.com has Doom 1 (Ultimate Doom), Doom2 + Final Doom, and Doom 3 BFG edition. Which are all on sale at the moment. I own them all. So I am giving them a try again.

You can play Doom 1 and 2 in high resolution if you use ZDoom or GZDoom. ZDoom is older, and is no longer being updated. GZDoom is newer, and has a few more extras. Use one. You can put the files directly into your Doom folders, or create a separate folder for it. Besides being able to run in 1920 x 1080, they add some options like being able to jump or crouch, or have a visible crosshair, and other stuff. GZDoom has more of this. You can find everything you don't want to know about installing ZDoom or GZDoom here.

To play either, don't use the games' regular shortcuts. Instead start it with the Zdoom.exe or GZdoom.exe. When you do it will give you a list of the Doom games you have installed. Pick one and it will start that game. Sadly, this means you have to install with a regular windows installer. Just copying the Doom folder over means GZDoom won't know its there.

In ZDoom you cannot select your resolution in the game options (it is there but doesn't work). You have to do it via the command line. Create a shortcut for ZDoom.exe and in the Properties -> Target field add in this at the end: -width1920 -height 1080 I am not sure if you need the width and height in GZDoom. I just copied it over from my ZDoom shortcut, and it works.

If you want to use a modded Wad file, this is also where you add that in with: -file [wad name] Put them in the same folder as the executable you are using to start the game. So if you have ZDoom or GZDoom in a their own folder, put it them there, not your regular Doom folder.

I found a female protagonist mod here. Then add it to your command line: -file Doomgirl_01.wad

So my entire Target box for my shortcut looks like this:
E:\GZDoom\gzdoom.exe -file Doomgirl_01.wad -width 1920 -height 1080

I started with Zdoom, and tried GZdoom just a little while ago. That is when I figured out that if you put either in a separate folder, you need to put your modded .wad files in that folder, not the Doom folder. GZDoom does look better, so that is what I am using going forward. I tested both on the Ultimate Doom from Gog, and Doom II with Master levels from there. One nice thing about GZDoom is that it makes the map a lot more useful. You can set it to show the secrets, and you can even make it show the textures of the areas, so you can see poison floors and so on.

This stuff does not work with Doom 3, as it is already a 3d game.


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SubRosa
post Mar 23 2020, 07:10 PM
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Gog.com has the Doom 3 BFG version for sale. It comes with Doom 1 and Doom 2. How the versions of those games compare to the Ultimate Doom and Doom2 + Final Doom standalone games Gog has I am not sure. But you can launch either Doom 1 or Doom 2 from inside Doom 3 BFG. You will also see them from the ZDoom and GZDoom start screen, so you don't have to start them from Doom 3.

I do know that mods for the original Doom 3 don't seem to work with BFG. I think there is some kind of converter that will make them work however. I also have read that the BFG version increased the lighting a lot, so it is easier to see, and they made the flashlight attach to your shoulder, so you can use it and a gun at the same time. The people who love Doom 3 as a survival horror game hate both. Personally, I hated that back when the game first came out, so it sounds good to me.

Unfortunately I have not seen any female player mods, so it does not look like I will be playing it much.


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Acadian
post Mar 23 2020, 07:13 PM
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Nice resource, SubRosa, for anyone who might be looking to try or replay Doom games. Will we be seeing Stormcrow the Doomgirl? tongue.gif


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SubRosa
post Mar 23 2020, 07:14 PM
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Finally (for now), there are some mods here for Quake 2 that allow you to play Doom 1 and 2. You are actually playing Quake 2. So it uses the Quake 2 monsters, guns, textures, power ups, and so on. But it is using the maps from the original Doom games. I ran though Knee Deep In The Dead, and it was fun.

Each Episode of each game is separate. Put their folders in your base Quake 2 folder. You have to rename the one you want to play Doom. Then run the .bat file in the folder. It looks for the Doom folder name in the batch file. So you could could give each folder a unique name, and then change every batch file to point to each folder.


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SubRosa
post Mar 23 2020, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE(Acadian @ Mar 23 2020, 02:13 PM) *

Nice resource, SubRosa, for anyone who might be looking to try or replay Doom games. Will we be seeing Stormcrow the Doomgirl? tongue.gif

The upside to a social distancing is that it is a great time to catch up on video games!


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Kane
post Mar 23 2020, 07:56 PM
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I've not played the new Doom games, but I hear that ID's optimization is top notch? Wish they worked more with BGS! laugh.gif
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SubRosa
post Mar 23 2020, 08:07 PM
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QUOTE(Kane @ Mar 23 2020, 02:56 PM) *

I've not played the new Doom games, but I hear that ID's optimization is top notch? Wish they worked more with BGS! laugh.gif

I thought that too. But I have read that John Carmack himself said that the way the ID Tech engines work is really not suitable to the giant open world games Bethesda does. When you think of it, Doom games are almost always in small, enclosed spaces. You rarely have an exterior, and even then it is a relatively small area.

And I have not played a Doom game since Doom 3. Or a Quake game since Quake 2.


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RaderOfTheLostArk
post Mar 23 2020, 10:36 PM
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DOOM (2016) is something I am planning on going back to once I get bored with ESO. I started playing it and I did like what I played, but frustratingly my computer isn't running it all that well. Perhaps I've just been spoiled by other games playing very well on my laptop, but even though it is not the absolute top of the line for gaming I think it should be able to run DOOM with little trouble. (Also, I remember hearing how it was "so easy" or something along those lines to run DOOM right around when it came out. Probably those PC snobs that upgrade their computer every damn year).

OG Quake is one of my favorite games ever. Only first played it in 2016 or 2017 and was absolutely hooked. It was such a unique setting and combat was so fluid. Didn't like Quake 2 initially when I played but I eventually came to enjoy it, although not nearly as much as Quake 1. A recent game that is heavily inspired by it, DUSK, is a fantastic game that anyone who loved Quake 1 should play.

I tried modding the OG Doom and Doom 2 with that GZDoom but couldn't get it to cooperate, so I had to play them unmodded. Which sucks because they have aged very poorly and I didn't enjoy them all that much. Doom I got through and had an alright time with, Doom 2 was less so, and Doom 3 became too frustrating that I never finished it. I don't care about the graphics. I just want good controls.

But I had some other issues besides the unmodded controls. Sometimes the game turned into a keycard hunt after you had mowed down all the demons that were then available to kill, or hunting for the necessary secret became a chore. Also, the fact that you could get damaged by demons who were directly in front of you but were not even close to the same horizontal plane as you was BS. It would become too hard to see those enemies but yet they had no trouble hitting you. Those are some of the reasons that I didn't enjoy the old Doom games. I don't want to rag on them too much, though. They are extremely important games in gaming history (or at least Doom 1 was) and I can totally understand why people love them so dearly. But it does get annoying because there are a bunch of people that seem to dismiss their flaws or get crazy upset if you say anything about Doom that is less than "This game is amazing and one of the absolute [x number] best games ever made."


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SubRosa
post Mar 23 2020, 10:57 PM
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I had a lot of issues getting Zdoom and GZdoom to work at first. What I posted above is what about two hours of experimenting boiled down to. But once it did get working, it runs well. One thing I like about GZdoom is that it adds mouselooking, so you can actually see up and down, as well as jump up to places. I have not found much use for crouching yet.

I am about midway through the 2nd episode of Doom 1, and some of the maps have turned into that key hunt you mentioned. The maps become sprawling, filled with teleporters and switches, and it is hard to tell what a switch you pulled actually does at times. You hear a door open, but have no idea where. I prefer the layout of Skyrim's dungeons, or even Oblivions (which were a lot less linear), where you at least don't get lost.

The improved map in GZDoom helps a lot with finding secrets and where things are. Especially once you turn the textures on in the map. It is easier to keep track of where things are in the sprawl.

OTOH, where the Doom games really shine is when you open a door and twenty Imps come running out. You start backpedaling and strafing, dodging left and right around fireballs, and pick them off one at a time with the shotgun. When it gets to that fast-paced action, the game is at its best.

I have not played Quake I in ages. I am sort of tempted to go back to it. As you said, it was the OG - the first true 3d game (Duke Nukem was only 2.5d, it had up and down, but only by playing tricks with essentially a 2 dimensional map with sprites). I think the version of Quake I that I bought from Gog does not have the original soundtrack by Trent Reznor however. I think it was too expensive to pay him... sad.gif Which is sad if it is true, because that was a big part of the atmosphere.

Here is an example of Zdoom

Here is one of GZdoom

GZdoom also gives you the option of a chase camera


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SubRosa
post Mar 24 2020, 02:41 PM
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I did some experimenting with Quake I.

I found Dark Places, an HD front end that will allow you to play in 1920 x 1080. Plus other visual tweaks. It looks remarkably better from the original game. All you have to do is unzip the Dark Places files to their own folder, then copy over the Quake .pak files into its ID1 subfolder. After that you don't need the original game anymore. Then start it with the DarkPlaces.exe.

I found that yes, the music is not in the Gog version of the game. However, you can download the music files. Here is a topic all about how to get and implement the music. The original campaign music is here. The two expansions have links in that thread as well.

Since I am using Dark Places, all I did was go to my Dark Places folder -> ID1 -> and create a new folder there named Music. Then I unzipped the music files into that folder. That was it, the music was in game after that.

I also learned that you don't need a .wad or .pak file for mods in Quake 1. You can use loose files, so long as they follow the same folder structure they use inside their .paks. Put them all in a new folder off the Quake.exe or DarkPlaces.exe folder. Then in your shortcut's Target line add in the switch -game [folder name]. When the game starts it will add in whatever it finds in that folder.

I also think that you can use mods in .pak files, and simply put them in the ID1 folder alongside the original game files. I think you are supposed to rename them to follow the ID naming scheme, so name them mod.pak2, mod.pak3, etc... But I am not positive on this.

I did a little testing with using loose files in a folder. I am working on creating a female player mod. I started with the player sound files, and replaced the jump sound with Imoen saying "Something up?", and it works. So I can easily replace all the sounds.

The little character face you see in the Hud is a bunch of files stored in the gfx.wad file, which is in turn inside one of the .pak files. The file names in the wad do not have extensions. But I *think* they are .tga files. After a lot of headaches, I discovered that they also work as loose files, so long as the new file is in the .tga format. They have to be 24 x 24 in size, 256 colors. Wow, how small that is in my graphics program!

So it looks like making my female player mod is doable. I just need to find some sound files to use in place of the originals. Maybe I can steal them from the Baldur's Gate games. Or maybe I can unpack the female sounds from Quake II.


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SubRosa
post Mar 24 2020, 04:09 PM
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I made my female player mod for Quake 1. In fact, I made 3 different options.

Persephone Quake

January Quake

Card Captor Sakura Quake

I took the female sounds from Quake 2 and used them. It was interesting that there are more player sounds in Quake 1 and Quake 2. But some of the Quake 1s were generic enough that I did not need to replace them.

The faces are from other game avatar pics I made in the past. The game uses about 15 different ones, with varying stages of damage or excitement or power ups on them. I just used the same one for all.

Edit:

I went back to look at some of my character pics of January, and experimented with three of them. Here is my favorite of the lot:
Quakuary

If I get to playing Quake 2, it will probably be using her.


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SubRosa
post Mar 24 2020, 06:32 PM
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I played a little Quake 1 to test, and I was really underwhelmed by the damage of the player weapons. It took at least two shots from the shotgun to kill one grunt enemy soldier. So I went looking for weapon mods. Instead I found autoexec.cfg file that allows you to edit the health values of the monsters, among other things. I am not sure if you need the progs file with it, or if you can just drop the autoexec.cfg alone in your ID1 folder. I am going to test and see.

It says you need Dark Places for it to work.

Gah, it does not seem to work.

Edit, Ok, I did find one that works

This mod will allow you to double weapon damage and increase the ammo in pickups.

You can ignore the source code folders. Just put the .pak file in your ID1 folder. You will probably need to rename it so it does not write over one of your existing .paks. Just change the last number to the next highest one that is not used.

Then go in your config.cfg file and find these lines:

saved2 "0"
saved1 "0"

Change them to

saved2 "2"
saved1 "2"

That is supposed to work. It did not for me. I had to open the console in the game and type in both commands. Then it worked on the weapon damage. But the ammo pickup amount still remained the same. But at least the most important part worked!


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RaderOfTheLostArk
post Mar 26 2020, 07:30 PM
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I'll have to take a look at a few of those mods. Yeah, I have the GOG version and it was disappointing that it didn't come with the music, but it is a phenomenal game nonetheless. I don't really care for Trent Reznor or Nine Inch Nails, but I have listened to the soundtrack for Quake 1 on YouTube and it is incredibly atmospheric. Would've made a fantastic experience even better if it was included in the game. Still a strange situation.

Also, in my unmodded version the enemies' animations are a slight bit janky, like they skip every other frame. I've seen some gameplay on YouTube and the monsters' animations are really fluid there, so maybe it is that Dark Places mod you are talking about that fixes it. I wish I could've hand these changes before I played the game the first time, but hey, I guess it'll make the second playthrough that much better to play it that way. I had started a second playthrough sometime last year because I wanted to get every kill, but haven't gotten back around to it after stopping on the E1M3 since there were 2 enemies I just could not find.

After I tire of ESO and play through some FPS games I haven't played through: AMID EVIL (only played through the first 2 levels) and Hexen (haven't started). I'm thinking of getting Ion Fury as well, as I have heard great reviews about it and my only experience with Build Engine games is like 5 minutes of the original Shadow Warrior.


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