Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: mirocu Mar 26 2014, 03:03 PM

Yeah.... A general RPG discussion thread in the General RPG Discussion section

Basically the idea here is to discuss RPGs in general (duh! ) So if we want to compare RPGs with each other and/or the elements within the term we can do that here


To quote a very good RPG; Please, share your thoughts

Posted by: McBadgere Mar 26 2014, 10:21 PM

*Sniffs*...My title would have been swaggy-er...

Aaaaamywho...

Soooo, about these long-term games...And I'm looking mostly at you Crow-Boy and Acadian...

If you do all the dungeon-farming, each time they respawn...What do you do with all the loot?...Does it respawn too?...And do you sell it all, or keep loads of it in yer houses?...

I remember Nordy-Boy's house in Bruma being so full of books and weapons/armour...And I had nowhere near your level of hours...

Anyone else with long-duration games?...On any other RPG besides the Elder Scrolls ones?...How do you fill the time in?...

Posted by: mirocu Mar 26 2014, 10:27 PM

Well, as far as I´m concerned Lothran rarely goes dungeon-diving anymore and he almost never collect any loot save from Flawless gems and the like. He prefers the outdoors and the open sky now and he has no real need for the Septims except when he wants to recharge his weapons

As for Fallout 3, I collect everything that isn´t nailed down or blown to kingdom come Not that long ago I passed 100.000 caps and have since gathered another 10.000 and tons of loot. And I very much like dungeon-diving here, if not to find a rare piece of something I overlooked before


And yes, I´m sure your title would have been snassier..

Posted by: Acadian Mar 26 2014, 11:36 PM

I guess Buffy qualifies here. Her total game time is 3,670 hours (her first game was 1000 hours and her current game is at 2670).

Buffy loves traveling outdoors, visiting her friends all over Cyrodiil, Elseweyr and the SI, and simply adores clearing dungeons. In fact, she gets cranky if she doesn’t get to use her bow – and the powerful weapon wasn’t exactly made to hunt rabbit and deer.

The type of loot she picks up is extremely limited:
-Gold coins
-Scrolls, soul gems and difficult/dangerous to acquire alchemy ingredients to help the MG retail shops with their stock.
-Master alchemy gear – she donates that to the MG.
-Flawless gems and gold/silver nuggets just because she likes shinies. She sells those as well.

Any 'artifacts' she comes across are donated to the Mystic Archives. Buffy actually collects very little (her large wardrobe notwithstanding).

The MG issues her grand soul gems to fully fill – she is one of the few mages with the stones to perform that dangerous task. She also is largely responsible for the fact that the MG’s cartography department produces the most accurate maps in Tamriel.

Just a note here. Buffy lives in a post Oblivion crisis world, but it is Sir Mazoga who is the Champion of Cyrodiil. Similarly, the Graymarch has evicted Sheogorath from his throne, but a fellow MG guild mate who is quite a bit more eccentric than Buffy (Henantier) rules the Shivering Isles. She also freely travels into other provinces – most notably, Elsweyr.

As voracious as she is in her adventures, she does indeed garner quite a good income. Every stable hand in Cyrodiil can attest to how generous she is when providing for the care of her precious mare. She also goes through a fair number of outfits and arrows – and with her tastes and demanding lifestyle, that gobbles up plenty of gold. As a Knight of the Lamp for the MG, she earns a small stipend from her guild (and more importantly, pays no dues) and enjoys use of an apartment upstairs in the Mystic Archives. She sold her Bravil house, so no longer has any property tax bills.

Loads of her gold was donated to Countess Kvatch to help with the rebuilding of Kvatch. And she is the financial sponsor of the 'Heroes of Kvatch' graveyard on the western edge of Kvatch plateau. That is the final resting place of Savlian Matius and a fair number of his victorious army.

Between the beauty around her on the roads and in the wilderness, and neverending challenge of clearing dungeons, it quite simply never gets old.

Posted by: mirocu Mar 27 2014, 09:06 AM

I have followed dear Buffy for quite some time and I feel honoured for the opportunity Can´t imagine a better friend to have along in my travels even if her attention span is, quite like herself, pretty short


I must bring up Deus Ex and Street Gangs, also known as River City Ransom. While they are not full-fledged RPGs they do contain elements of it where you can become stronger or better at certain things of your choosing. In Deus Ex you spend XP to raise your skills in handguns, lockpicking, running etc and in Street Gangs you eat different kind of food to make you hit, kick or throw harder and maybe get better at taking abuse. That makes for some shifting gaming experience, especially in Deus Ex where you can be a sniper capable of taking out targets from miles away, or become an expert in explosives. You can´t become the best in all areas here simply because there´s not enough XP, so you have to plan ahead and know what you want to focus on.

Posted by: McBadgere Mar 27 2014, 02:00 PM

They sound fun...

Are they hard games?...Make much money?...Although...What is it you actually do?...

As me old chum Treydog was (is) pretty much hooked on Borderlands 2...I did try it out...And failed miserably...Like I said elsewhere, repeatedly dying is not for me...I haven't the patience...But as Treydog and McBoy really enjoy it...It's likely to be my failings that stop me enjoying it as much as they do...

Ooooh, so what you're saying, Acadian, is that Mods enhance the game so much it's possible to extend the life of it by a huge order... ...

Do you (does anyone?) keep track of/make note of where you've been, so that you don't wind up in the same dungeon far too soon after clearing it more recently than others?...

I do loves me Assassin's...They tried to make it a bit of an RPG with AC4 and the pirate life...Not quite there, but it was still a beautiful game though...

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Mar 29 2014, 08:04 PM

Ah, Borderlands 2, now there's a fun FPS. Though it sounds like your experience with it is similar to mine with Oblivion



I quite liked what they did with AC: Brotherhood, where you could recruit and train assassins, which was fairly RPgish, but they lost me with Revelations. That game completely failed to grab me, and I just found it dull and tedious. It's a shame really, because prior to that I loved the series.


I think I'll have to take a crack at Dark Messiah of Might and Magic: Elements. I picked it up for about Ł2, but I haven't gotten around to playing it yet. A quick look through the manual makes it sound fairly promising, think I'll go mage...

Posted by: McBadgere Apr 8 2014, 01:12 PM

Fair dues, I'd really forgotten how much I loved Oblivion...No, I mean properly love it...

None of the other RPGs (although I admit to only having a few to compare) bar Fallout 3 come anywhere close to the joyous feeling I get wandering around in Cyrodiil...I really have missed this game...

In terms of ranking the joyous experiences (As in, how happy I feel simply wandering and playing the game) in the worlds of the ones I've got, it would have to be thusly...

1 Oblivion

2 Fallout 3

3...Um...Oh yeah...Kingdoms of Amalur

4 Fallout New Vegas

5 Skyrim...



How's about some of the others that others have played...Do they encourage wandering and such like?...

I've never played Dragon's Dogma outside of the demo, does anyone else know whether that's any good?...I've kinda avoided it as it's rumoured to be quite hard in places...And I don't do hard games that are frustrating... ...

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Apr 8 2014, 01:21 PM

I know what you mean about Oblivion. Over at Bethsoft I likened it to sinking into a nice, comfy armchair.

I have to query number 3 on your list. Kingdoms of Amalur? I tried that game but it just got so repetitive, it had some good features, I liked how you were given a choice when it came to completing the questlines, or some of them at least, but it didn't really manage to grab me.

As for Dragon's Dogma, heh one of the things people criticised most about it is that you have to walk everywhere. They changed it in the Dark Arisen expansion, but it's an option they give you to avoid walking, so at least they changed it properly.

It's a damn good game, a fantastic attempt at real time combat in a party based game. The AI companion can be a bit thick at times, but the story's good, the combat's good and solid, and, best of all in my opinion, all the magic oriented classes handle completely differently.

That said, at times that game can be hard as nails. I never played the demo though, so I 'm afraid I can't tell you what it's like in relation to it.

Posted by: Kiln Apr 8 2014, 08:51 PM

I agree on both points. Kingdom of Amalur was a pretty good game that unfortunately did get repetitive after a few hours. I did think that the storyline and environments were entertainingly different from most other games though. The world is giant and the lore is interesting. It is pretty cheap now so given the cost, I'd say buy it.

Dragon's Dogma was excellent but as noted by half of the people who played it, walking everywhere gets tiring. You can sprint short distances but it uses up the same energy you have for combat so if you wander into a big fight after running (which happens often) then you're going to be in rough shape.

The game is also extremely difficult at times and will require grinding lesser enemies to level up high enough to survive during the random enemy difficulty jumps. For instance you'll get to a point where you can kill lots of things that have pestered you through the whole game with ease but then you walk into another dungeon and everything inside is extremely tough and will kick your backside. The good thing about this game is that it is rather large and keeps you busy for a while, there are also plenty of side quests to keep you going. The three classes are excellent in that they handle so differently, if you choose a specialization, it even plays a lot different than the base classes.

Most interesting of all however is the pawn system. Each player creates a "pawn" who will follow the player though the game as what more or less amounts to their personal sidekick. The pawns will gain experience which can be distributed to skills like most RPG's but unlike most games the pawns will also gain knowledge of quests and enemies that will make them more effective companions.

The player will also enter an area known as "the rift" and choose two other pawns that were created and customized by other players to help them their journeys. There are thousands of pawns with different skill sets, looks, and experiences that can be extremely helpful to you. You can change your secondary pawns at any time (just find a rift stone) to suit your needs for particular quests or enemies. It is an incredibly unique and well designed system that makes this game one of the most memorable RPG's I've played in a long time.

The enemies are incredibly varied, the story is entertaining, and replayability IMO is very good. I would however pick up the newer version that allows for a sort of fast travel system to be more easily implemented. It isn't like ES fast travel so don't worry, you'll set stones that cost money that will allow you to warp to that place using crystals that you also pay for. No free rides here.

The base game also has these but they're much more rare and expensive.

Posted by: McBadgere Apr 10 2014, 06:19 AM

I've seen the two-in-one package about the place...Perhaps if I start small, y'know...Baby-steps and all... ...

It does sound a pretty good game, just hard...

Just to show how arsey I am with it...I just got stuck in a poison trap in Sardavar Leed...I got very frustrated as I was over-encumbered and out of magic...I was unimpressed muchly...And that's just a minor annoyance...I just don't do frustration in games well, at all... ...

Oh, Thorny...The demo had you creating yours and your top pawn's characters...then there was a bit of a dungeon crawl and fighting some lion-esque thing, maybe...I'm unsure about that, I think it was lion-ish anyways...Then that bit finished and you could play this other bit where there's a city in the distance and you and your party have to take down a Gryffon thing...It was flying about anyways...That was about it...

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Apr 10 2014, 03:54 PM

If you're thinking of getting it, defintely get the Dark Arisen version. That expansion can't be gotten seperately, so they resold the game with it built in.

It's a fantastic game, and some of the difficulty can be dealt with by setting up the party properly, and most importantly your pawn. You have a greater degree of control over how they act, nothing direct, but you can adjust their behaviour.

Posted by: McBadgere Apr 10 2014, 08:33 PM

Well, it's pretty cheap in Tescos and places like that... ...

Oi'll have a look next time we're about...Even if I don't play it straight away, at least it'll be in the house, and that's a start... ...

Likely I'll be the Knight-ish one again...Ooooh, look! A sword and a shield!...Magic some?...Yes please!...CHAAARGE!!... ...

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Apr 10 2014, 08:38 PM

I'd recommend the Mystic Knight class then. All the fun of a sword and board warrior, with special magic tailored to match.

Of course, you'll have to wait a while to get it, but it's tonnes of fun.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 12 2014, 11:35 PM

Hey everyone. I just discovered that http://www.gog.com is giving away the original Mount and Blade for free. Yep, for free, and as always, with no DRM. It is an old game, but with that price, it is definitely worth the download.

Posted by: Colonel Mustard Nov 13 2014, 09:47 AM

I know I should be happy about this, but mostly I'm annoyed that I got NWN2 for full price about a week ago, and now it's 60% off.

I'm just hoping they'll do a deal for Divinity: Original Sin. That game looks amazing.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 13 2014, 06:04 PM

Well, I've no idea if it'll run on my laptop, but since it's free...

*Downloads*

Posted by: Rohirrim Nov 16 2014, 03:37 AM

I think the original M&B would run on a literal potato.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 16 2014, 10:05 AM

Hey man, potatoes are powerful things. You can run GLaDOS on a potato

Posted by: mirocu Jan 13 2016, 11:05 AM

Oh, my. How did I overlook this?


They´re not difficult games per say. But you gotta be a bit careful and especially in Deus Ex (PC) you really have to plan your moves. I have a thread discussing Deus Ex in more detail if yer interested


Street Gangs is a beat ´em up for the NES. I see it as the perfect version of the Double Dragon games and I highly recommend it. The least RPG-y of these two games but it still has an element of it.
You get money in both but not nearly as much as you can get in Beth´s games. In Street Gangs you use the money to buy books and food which act as upgrades so that you hit harder and get up faster if you get knocked down. In Deus Ex you use it mainly to buy ammo and information.



Sorry for the delayed reply...

Posted by: RaderOfTheLostArk Jun 15 2017, 07:19 PM

I find it sort of strange that this thread hasn't seen activity in almost a year and a half. Let's liven it up, shall we?

Anybody here familiar with the Divinity series? I recently played and beat Divine Divinity, and I immensely enjoyed it. It was a phenomenal game at an incredibly cheap price (an absolute steal for US$0.89 on sale, and was worth significantly more) and I didn't have any particular expectations going into it. I want to start up Divinity II in the near-future. If I enjoy that, I may consider getting Divinity: Original Sin even though I'm not really a fan of turn-based gameplay.

Has anybody played Beyond Divinity, though? I was thinking about starting that up sometime (not necessarily soon) and it is sitting in my library, but quite a few of the opinions on it are lukewarm or disappointed in it at best, especially for those coming from Divine Divinity. I have other games in my backlog that I want to get to and it isn't a priority game at the moment, but some of the reviews and opinions worry me a bit about it. Did anybody here who played enjoy it?

Posted by: Acadian Jun 15 2017, 07:41 PM

Heh, my problem is that when I get into a game (currently ESO), I forsake all others and stay 'mono-gamous' for years at a time. For example, the last two decades of my gaming have involved no more than 5 games, typically played exclusively for 4-5 years each.

Posted by: RaderOfTheLostArk Jun 15 2017, 08:21 PM

Really? Interesting. Personally, I couldn't do that. There are definitely times I can get caught up in a game (e.g. Half-Life, Divine Divinity) for a stretch, but I also need some variety.

But hey, you're dedicated!

Posted by: mirocu Nov 1 2017, 10:10 PM

My problem is similar although I don't limit myself to 4-5 years per game. I usually play whatever game I find interesting until I don't find it interesting anymore. For some games this means just one playthrough (Bioshock 1 and 2), some multiple playthroughs (Deus Ex and VtM:B ) and some games just seem to go on forever. Early this year for example I celebrated ten years playing Oblivion; same character, no restarts.


I may miss out on other great games and experiences but hey, I let the adventures come to me...

Posted by: tegeus-Cromis Nov 1 2017, 11:41 PM

Funny thing I find is that I find I stay with the same couple of games for years and years, like many here, but flip backwards and forwards between game types. On RPGs now, which means Oblivion and FO3 (well, sometimes Morrowind). But I know I will feel the urge soon to go on a big TBS binge, which means Civilization 4 and/or Europa Universalis 3).

Funny thing is I'm always one or more in each of these series behind, in some cases stuck there. Bounced right off Skyrim, but I wouldn't mind checking out FO4, I'm not sure it'll be my thing though. (Not strictly relevant to RPGs, I know, but Civ 5, I think, is a crime against humanity - on the other hand, EU4 sounds cool, just haven't got round to it, probly because I'd likely play nothing else for 6 months.)

[There is, actually, some mild relevance to TBS, in that I find I always play the games in an RPG sort of style. (You know, total world conquest OR higher living standards for everyone, plus free beer.) This style is frowned on by many players, who argue that the only issue is winning big and counting points. In other words, 'beating the game'. That's fine if it floats your boat, but I generally just like to build lots of cool stuff and do much big science...]

Posted by: Renee Nov 3 2017, 01:08 PM

Substitute gaming company for "game", and that's how I am. Since discovering Oblivion in 2008, it's rare that I step outside of Bethesda stuff. Which is kinda bad in a way because there are probably so many great games out there I'm missing. The only other game I've regularly played since 2008 is Sims 3..

Before 2008, I was trying a LOT of different games too, but mostly because of a game I saw way back in 2002, which I now believe was Bethesda. I was at a party in 2002, and somebody was playing something on Xbox (which was new at the time) and I began watching the TV. This game (whatever it was) had a lot of fog in it. I remember that I kept thinking a load-screen would pop up, as the game moves on to the next "level," but I was surprised that this game (whatever it was) kept going on and on and on. I kept thinking the player-character would run into an invisible barrier, as so many other linear games would limit us to from that era. But this game (whatever it was) just kept going on and on. No invisible barriers.

Knowing how I am, I would have asked the guy playing what this game was, and his answer (The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind) would be too complicated to remember. Maybe I wrote it down. If so, I definitely lost that piece of paper. But this was okay, that game (whatever it's called) can also be found on Playstation, right?



Yeah, I didn't know MW was Xbox and PC-only at the time. I spent most of the 2000s looking for it though, convinced that the next RPG I'd find at GameStop would be THAT game I saw at that party long ago. .

Posted by: RaderOfTheLostArk Nov 18 2017, 05:10 AM

Can anybody point me in the direction of some good, isometric, real-time (with an option to pause combat, preferably) RPGs where you play as a single character? I'm not as interested in party-based ones, although I am not averse to them. (I still have yet to get my old files for Planescape: Torment off of my previous computer...) Also, if they are on Steam or GOG.

I have played Divine Divinity (which I have a serious urge to go back and replay). I have Grim Dawn in my library, which I am thinking of starting up soon. I can't think of other ones I have played or own at the moment. Any other ones people can point me to?

Posted by: Renee Nov 18 2017, 02:10 PM

What platform? I only started PC gaming 3 years ago, but I remember on consoles there was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champions_of_Norrath. I remember really enjoying that one. It is multiplayer, but you can just enter one character as well.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 18 2017, 04:15 PM

The single player is the hard part. Most of the ones that come to mind are all team-based. Some of the team games can be played with a solo character - like Pillars of Eternity. But it is really, really hard to do so.

There are the Torchlight games, but they are pretty shallow. Basically Diablo clones. There is Heretic Kingdoms, though I never went too far into it to really say how good it is. The first two Fallout games are a single character. You can have a companion in them, but don't have to take one.

I believe there is a sequel to Planescape on Gog. But never looked that much into it.

I am not sure if Underrail is a single character or team game, but you could check it out. Likewise Age of Decadence.

All these are on Gog.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Nov 18 2017, 06:05 PM

Fallout 1 or 2 perhaps? It’s not medieval fantasy but Khajiit wants to say followers aren’t crucial in those games (this one has never played them)?

Posted by: RaderOfTheLostArk Nov 19 2017, 07:24 AM

The urge to replay Divine Divinity overcame me, and I started a new game.

Yeah, I figured the single-character part would make things difficult. But I am open to party-based ones. It's just that I know what most of those are, and have a couple in the backlog to get to anyways. Thanks for the tips.



Those are pure turn-based though, which I really don't want. I did pick up the original from Steam just because it was free, in case I wanted to check it out. Medieval fantasy is not a pre-requisite either.


Then again, I probably should not be making my backlog bigger at the moment.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Nov 19 2017, 06:28 PM

Oh oops, Khajiit half read your op and missed where you said “real time”. Sorry

Posted by: Decrepit Dec 28 2017, 02:05 AM

As we don't have an Elder Scrolls Series sub-forum I'm not sure where to put this. I reckon this thread is as good a place as any.

I recently stumbled on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGLGi5RK8V8&t=6331s, at YouTube! It rambles a bit at times, but contains much good info. Julian himself seems a most interesting fellow.

Posted by: Decrepit Jul 3 2018, 06:11 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46gaz6veVNQ.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 1 2020, 02:20 AM

https://imgur.com/gallery/nLWPtbR

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 1 2020, 04:15 AM

Nice! That was a good gallery! I sent my GF the pic of the Bearperson Monk earlier today (she loves grizzly bears).

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 1 2020, 04:41 AM

I love the idea of a Bear Monk! It is just insane.

https://i.imgur.com/7MLS67o.png

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 1 2020, 04:57 AM

My Kenku Way of Shadow Monk caught a bad case of werebear lycanthropy. So every full moon he turns into a https://i.imgur.com/LIqrICF.jpg!

That image does look like a Shadowrun character!

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 1 2020, 06:09 AM

OMG, a https://imgur.com/gallery/cHkTeab

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 1 2020, 02:47 PM

Lol, that’s hilarious! I guess mine is a bit screwed up because of the crowfolk influence, because he tries to fight everybody in the party every time he turns.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 1 2020, 05:19 PM

Shouldn't he do very forceful mimes? Or impressions of the other party members?

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 1 2020, 07:46 PM

Lol, probably! The DM controls him when he turns until such time I’m able to pass a check to maintain control.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 1 2020, 08:24 PM

https://imgur.com/gallery/1nRm3HY

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 1 2020, 10:33 PM

They’re super cute. I sometimes feel bad for slaughtering them.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 1 2020, 10:44 PM

Michael Shea did an anthology of his Cthulhu stories called the Demiurge. One of the stories is Nemo Me Impune Lacessit. It is a tongue in cheek homage to Cask of Amontidillo, with a lot of Mythos thrown in. The butler of the big bad guy is named Koboldus.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 1 2020, 11:56 PM

Neat! I should read more.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 2 2020, 03:00 AM

https://imgur.com/gallery/a8lS4

Posted by: mirocu Apr 2 2020, 04:51 PM

I wonder if Bioshock 1 and 2 qualifies as semi-RPG? They do have elements of it I think, like Deus Ex.


This is stuff I sometimes ponder over.

Posted by: Renee Apr 2 2020, 06:01 PM

I never played any of those, mirocu. In general terms, they are all considered RPGs, although if I'm correct, we can't create our own characters, correct?

They are super-mean, though!

Did anybody else get involved with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fantasy_Trip This was a table-game similar to Dungeons & Dragons, but its rule system was a lot more down-to-earth. Humanoid characters were more fragile and fallible. No humanoids with hundreds of hit-points, for instance. We used DnD to enhance TFT, because DnD had hundreds more characters and additional rules. But for our base game (the actual dice-rolls) we used Fantasy Trip.

We even made our own rules! I added Feudalism to our game after learning about it in high school. IN a way, this was the very first version of modding our game.

Posted by: mirocu Apr 2 2020, 06:05 PM

No, that's where it fails to qualify. But one can develop the character we get in terms of what powers/abilities we want to focus on and thereby "create" a unique character, albeit in very limited ways.

Posted by: Renee Apr 2 2020, 07:06 PM

Okay, so in those games there is character development, at least. Makes sense. I get it. There are also more profound consequences, as I understand. Every decision must be weighed. The endgame is always going to be different.

I have sometimes struggled with that very question though: what is an RPG? What constitutes the decision for some to say "well this game is not an RPG, but this one is?" And for me, it all started back in the old forums. Some people were saying "Oblivion is not a role-playing game", which sort of hurt my feelings because I'd put so much love into that game! I certainly thought I was playing some roles with my myriad assortment of characters. How dare they!

But it also made me think. Why would they come to this conclusion?

For a lot of Morrowinders especially, the answer is "there is more of a separation between player and character skill." A lot of features (such as repairing items, unlocking stuff, and even casting spells) are based on character skill, not the player's ability to be quick enough with those joysticks, or that mouse. To them, the definition seems to lie somewhere in this greater separation of toon versus player.

Well my definition is simpler: an RPG is a game in which the focus is playing a role in a game. Not the action. Not the quests. Not the adventures. Not even the dice-rolls. Or the classes. Or any of the numbers. All of those are incidental. Although I do consider all of those features to be essential toward making a good RPG, what exactly does this term boil down to?

It is game which allows us to play a role, in which the focus is playing a role (rather than THE role).

In other words, let's say the only thing we could do in any Elder Scrolls game (or Fallout) are the Main Quests. We can't explore. We can't make potions. No side quests. No guilds. No factions. Only the good guy or gal (which we play), the enemies, and occasional NPCs who help us further the Main Quests. We can't gaze at awesome sunsets. We can't strip our characters down and go for a swim. If this is all Bethesda allowed, without even the character progression noted in Bioshock or Dragon Age (I assume), well that to me would make Bethesda's games into Action/Adventures.

"Well, Tomb Raider does that. We play a role when we are with Lara Croft. Therefore by your definition, Tomb Raider is an RPG."

And to this I say, no, Tomb Raider is not an RPG. Not to me, anyway. And not to its devs, who mostly classify these games as action-adventures.

In any Elder Scrolls game, any table-game, and in some of the MMOs I've played, I was able to create my own character, but I was also able to do whatever I want with this character. Because doing what I want (or better yet, doing what the character wants) is the actual focus of the game. See? Not the quests, not the adventures.

I can make a character who goes picking flowers for instance (and I have!). All she does is pick flowers all day, that is what she wants to do, and best of all, the game supports this. Picking flowers, in this case, IS playing the game. Playing the game means playing a role. Role Playing Game. This character might someday do quests, but then again, she might not. She might get into fights and go on adventures, or she might not. Because to play the game does not mean to go an adventures, or b34t the g4m3. All of that is merely there, just in case somebody gets interested in doing them.

With Tomb Raider, sure, Lara Croft can go around looking at flowers and maybe go for a swim, however this is not what playing the game is really about. To play the game means to do the adventures. Solve the puzzles. Find the secrets. Otherwise, all there is left is standing around, crouching, shooting into thin air. Doing flips in mid-air.

But then there are JRPGs, in which most of them are considered roleplaying games by the general gaming public, yet their stories are very fixated and often linear. Though there are also some which offer lots of choices along the way, too. But I can't remember playing a JRPG in which I was allowed to create whomever I wanted. I really don't know. I will leave that one open. I've played some Final Fantasy, some Legends of Dragoon, etc. but I haven't really thought much about why they'd be considered RPGs, or not.


------

Gosh, I apologize for writing that novel. You all are talking about memes and quick-posting. I had to get that out of my system, I guess.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 2 2020, 07:17 PM

I vaguely remember The Fantasy Trip. I never played it though. I did have the Melee microgame it started from however.

Back in the day when I started gaming we did D&D, but like you guys, a heavily customized version. The entire magic system was overhauled into a mana point one, where you had a total mana or karma (for cleric spells), that was your level x Int (or Wis for Clerics). Each spell cost mana, and only when you were out of mana could you no longer cast spells. Pretty standard stuff in video games these days. But way beyond standard D&D.

I can see where you are going with your definition of an RPG. I agree with most of it. I think it is a murky subject at best though, and something subjective to every gamer.

I think a lot of people consider an RPG to be a game where you have skills or talents or powers, or whatever, that you have to choose from as you level up. Typically there are too many for one character to take them all. Where pure action games like Doom never bother with any of that. You just have stuff like guns or armor or powerups you pick up. A lot of times when people say a game has "RPG Elements" they mean it has a level system and multiple ways of building a character. A lot of action games tend to add in RPG-lite stuff like this. And a lot of RPG games tend to go more for the action, and a first person viewpoint. So the line between the two can be really blurry. I remember the old school RPG games were typically 3rd person isometric, often with an entire party, like the Baldur's Gate games. Or Kotor.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 2 2020, 07:47 PM

I would love to try a World of Darkness tabletop game. It’s not really my current social circle’s “thing” though, as they are nuts for D&D.

Posted by: Renee Apr 3 2020, 03:34 PM

I really do apologize for that lengthy set of opinions yesterday. I had some time to kill. And it really did feel good to share that.

Posted by: RaderOfTheLostArk Apr 3 2020, 04:50 PM

I've lambasted the "ObLiViOn/SkYrIm Is NoT aN rPg DURR!" people plenty in the past, and you all have probably heard my spiel before, so I won't go hard into it this time (or at least, I'll try not to). But I find that most people--at least the really vocal ones--that go out of their way to declare something as a "true" or "not a real" RPG just have dumb, absurdly arbitrary definitions of what an RPG is. It's their way of denigrating a game that somehow offends their existence because their identity is solely wrapped up in their video game tastes. And we should remember that (in the case of TES), their supposed golden standard of what a "true" RPG is, Morrowind, was also trashed as a "fake" RPG by some Daggerfall fans. It's just a bunch of nonsense.

Now, if you want to say, "This game does RPG mechanics poorly," or "This is not what I want in an RPG," or something along those lines, there's an actual discussion to be had there. But they are RPGs. Granted, sometimes things do get a bit murky, but pretty much every single time that cabal of people come out of the woodwork to declare something as "not a real RPG"...it actually is an RPG.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 3 2020, 11:36 PM

https://imgur.com/gallery/LmdxWSE

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 4 2020, 07:15 PM

https://imgur.com/gallery/FPtx4e3

Posted by: mirocu Apr 5 2020, 09:29 AM

Very well written.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 5 2020, 02:24 PM

I’m not a huge fan of Orcs and Orckin, but these are really cool!

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 5 2020, 07:33 PM

I think WoW really made Orcs mainstream. Though Warhammer certainly had a hand in it as well. I have liked Orcs since Shadowrun. I had an Ork rigger named Butch. His dog was Sundance.

Posted by: Acadian Apr 5 2020, 07:54 PM

Orcs first became interesting to me with TES. I can't help thinking of their nature as that of Star Trek Klingons. Generally driven by honor and their own unique code.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 5 2020, 09:46 PM

Awwww that’s adorable!

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 5 2020, 10:13 PM

Butch was a fun character to play. He was a total inexperienced newbie at Shadowrunning. He literally froze up after the first time he shot someone, and had to be dragged away by the others. Another character - an experienced merc named Johnny - took him under his wing and mentored him.

One of the funniest things that ever happened with him was he came home and found a bomb in his house. So he called up Johnny and said:

"I think there's a bomb in my house! What do I do?"

so Johnny says:

"Well, get out!"

https://imgur.com/gallery/YR8pK7q

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 5 2020, 11:06 PM

Did Butch get called “Chummer”?

Those D&D ladies are really neat! My GF’s main character is a female Dwarven Barbarian. https://i.imgur.com/O3a0GUu.jpg That’s not her or my artwork, just a close approximation of what she looks like.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 6 2020, 01:28 AM

Everyone gets called a chummer is Shadowrun, chummer. Usually right after being told to slot and run...

Dwarven women with beards! Even as much of a feminist as I am, I can't get on board with that one.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 6 2020, 04:03 AM

Lol, she loves it! Supposedly one of the newer source books has an NPC Dwarven lady sporting a beard.

Posted by: RaderOfTheLostArk Nov 11 2020, 09:27 PM

I guess this is the best place to put this. There was an interesting interview someone did with Todd Howard about general Bethesda stuff. They only slightly touched on Starfield and TESVI, but there was some very interesting discussion about The Todd's time with Bethesda. Some of it I had heard before but there was a lot of new stuff to me.

But perhaps what stood out to me most were some of The Todd's pretty candid responses about things like Fallout 76's rough launch (and analogizes it somewhat to that of ESO's) and other stuff in Bethesda games that didn't work as well as was hoped, if at all. It's just over an hour long, but I recommend watching the whole thing.

Link to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9GA8lsH8ls

Posted by: Renee Nov 11 2020, 09:34 PM

Cool, thanks for posting. I'll check it out when I have time (as well as Chapter 9).

Interviewer (paraphrased): You've done your first MMO with 76. Will you be going any more?

Todd (paraphrased): Well, never say never. Starfield and Elder Scrolls VI are both going to be single-player ...

Renee:

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 27 2020, 08:46 AM

I see that Horizon Zero Dawn has been out for PC for a few months now. But it is Windows 10 only. That might be enough to convince me to upgrade my gaming PC to 10. But I am not sure. I will have to look at some gameplay videos to get a better feel of what the game is really like.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Nov 27 2020, 01:37 PM

Supposedly, the game is some kind of masterpiece. Obviously opinions may vary from person to person, but the general consensus is that it’s a truly great game.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 27 2020, 10:47 PM

I heard a lot of great things about Assassin's Creed Odyssey. But after I played it, I was felt it was just meh. I did not like the feel of the controls at all.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Nov 28 2020, 03:50 PM

Yeah the controls for all of the AC games are a might wonky, lol. Takes some getting accustomed to.

Posted by: Acadian Dec 14 2020, 12:20 AM

SubRosa, if you do try Horizon Zero Dawn on PC, would love to hear your thoughts.

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 14 2020, 01:50 AM

I did update my gaming PC to Windows 10. So I might try Horizon. Gog will probably have a sale a week or two.

Posted by: Renee Dec 14 2020, 02:28 PM

Oh gosh, was this a harrowing experience? Maybe not. Maybe by now you know all the pitfalls. I've heard all kinds of horror stories.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Dec 14 2020, 03:15 PM

I found it quite easy.

Posted by: Acadian Dec 14 2020, 04:04 PM

I've been running W10 for quite some time. I don't remember when I went to it but it's been at least a year or more - pretty soon after it came out. No problems, no complaints.

Posted by: Renee Dec 14 2020, 04:24 PM

Okay good. Was just curious.

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 14 2020, 11:40 PM

It wasn't that bad. I have been using Windows 10 on my laptop for a couple of years, so I got all the surprises out of my system. The update itself was simple. Afterward I had to go through all the usual things of creating new file associations, setting desktop colors, wallpapers, and the like. The same as any time you install Windows. Thankfully it has been out long enough for people to create programs to fix the largest things I dislike, like the inability to customize the start menu, the removal of the recent items list, and putting the file properties window on the side rather than the bottom. I had to reinstall several games to get them to work. But they did eventually work.

Posted by: Acadian Jan 13 2021, 01:51 PM

Well, there ya go! With Total War Amazon done, might it be time for you to be our guinea pig for Horizon Zero Dawn on PC?

Posted by: SubRosa Jan 14 2021, 06:22 AM

Not yet. It was on sale over the holidays, but not by enough for me to want to buy it. Maybe in the future it will come down more, and I will give it a chance.

Posted by: SubRosa Jan 15 2021, 03:04 AM

I started playing Sword Coast Legends again last night. It has been a long time since I tried playing it. I actually finished the tutorial for the first time, and am in the beginning of it. The game got lambasted, but it is ok. I would not say it is great however. But is is far from bad.

The voice acting is good. Lots of different accents. So far the characters are interesting too.

You can save anywhere at anytime. But there seems to be only a single save game. As you cannot go to a Load screen and choose to load a specific one. You click on Load and it just starts up from the last time you saved. So that is asking for your game to be ruined by save file corruption.

There are no console commands, or save game editors. Which disappoints me, because I like to use them to customize my characters, and do things outside of class structures. Like give January some kind of lightning bolt attack. I did find some Trainers, which among other things will give you lots of points to spend on attributes and perks. So maybe I will experiment with that.

The camera will not let you zoom in much to see your character, and there seems to be no way of using custom portraits. The graphics are good though.

It is very heavily team-focused. You start with a group of 3 NPCs with you, and seems to be how it goes through the game. I don't think you can create your own custom NPCs like you could in Pillars of Eternity. But they do start you with a Fighter, a Rogue, and a Cleric. A Wizard/Necromancer joins soon after. So far you can only have 4 total characters in your party. But that might change later.

I find the combat to be really fast, and hard to keep track of everything everyone is doing. It is also brutal. I had to lower the difficulty from Medium to Easy. I also had to spend a lot of time micromanaging the cleric to keep dishing out healing during the battles.

The rule system seems to be based on D&D. But it is very video-gamey. I have not played table top D&D since version 3.5, so I cannot be sure if 5.0 is like this or not. uses. Like a lot of crpgs it gives you branching trees of perks to buy, all based on your class. Said perks all have a cooldown time between. So it feels a lot like say Dragon Age that way. But the various races and classes are all straight D&D at least.

https://i.imgur.com/3fnMrad.jpg

Posted by: macole Jan 17 2021, 05:32 AM

Hate those Mimics.

Posted by: Renee Jan 17 2021, 06:02 PM

Yah me too. I added Mimics into Oblivion via Maskar's and they're just annoying. Well, they're supposed to be, that's their whole point! But I eventually removed them because they just feel like they're coming from outside the Elder Scrolls universe / aren't supported by lore books at all. Thank goodness MOO makes it easy to remove anything we don't want, while keeping stuff we do want.

Sword Coast Legends looks rather Baldur's-y but only because it's isometric. Looks as though it's not turn-based, is what I mean to say. More action-y.

Doncha love it when everybody's saying some game is bad, then you try it and lo, it doesn't seem as horrible? I assume by 'lambasting' you are talking about critical game reviewers, not so much gamers themselves, but still. Maybe bad ratings can cause some sort of a launching pad within our minds. We read it's bad, expect that it'll be bad, and so on,

Then again, when I discovered Oblivion it was due to a game review in which the guy gave it A+, and to this day I feel like that reviewer nailed it pretty good. Not so much the rating, but the way he described it as 'do anything / go anywhere', which is exactly what I love. I still feel the same way about that game as I did in 2008.

Sorry. Rambling. Maybe I should start gaming.

Posted by: SubRosa Jan 18 2021, 05:27 AM

I played some more Sword Coast Legends. I think the multiplayer parts of it no longer work, since the developer went out of business and Steam delisted the game (you still need Steam to play however). But in addition to the two single player campaigns there is a mode to play a random dungeon. You say how many levels you want it to be, what kind of monsters, etc... and the game generates the dungeon for you and off you go. You can go alone, or bring up to 3 NPC compaions from the single player campaign. I tried that a bit, and leveled up some of my companions.

It also has support for user-created dungeons. I have not looked to see if any are out there however.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 15 2021, 12:33 AM

https://www.reddit.com/r/ImaginaryTamriel/comments/mquu8t/tamriel_zero_dawn_fan_art_by_drawing_thavie/

Posted by: Acadian Apr 15 2021, 01:43 AM

Aloy!

Posted by: ghastley May 11 2021, 06:22 PM

https://imgur.com/gallery/x3ZGJ20

Posted by: mirocu May 11 2021, 06:46 PM

Ugh. Exactly what happened to my playthrough of Shining in the Darkness for the Genesis/MegaDrive. Had made some good progress, levelled up my crew nicely and alluvasudden BOOM! Save file was no longer loadable

Posted by: SubRosa May 12 2021, 02:03 AM

I have a plain old office chair.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit May 12 2021, 02:07 AM

Same. That being said, if I had more time to game I might would get a fancy chair.

Posted by: Kane Jun 10 2021, 10:24 PM

Elden Ring looks pretty cool.

Posted by: Acadian Jun 10 2021, 11:09 PM

Thanks. I checked Elden Ring out. Release Jan 2022. Looks like it could have potential. Single player Medieval fantasy open world rpg with character customization, mounted combat.

Posted by: Pseron Wyrd Jun 11 2021, 12:36 AM

I haven't really been playing attention to Elden Root until today. And I have to say, I am intrigued. Here is an interesting video that attempts to predict what Elden Root may be like, based on Miyazaki's past work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VIH21MaY58

Posted by: Kane Jun 11 2021, 12:17 PM

I'll have to give that a lookie-loo on my lunch break. I, too, am wholly unfamiliar of the game outside of the E3 trailer they released yesterday.

Edit: website is up now and is more descriptive. https://en.bandainamcoent.eu/elden-ring/elden-ring

Posted by: SubRosa Jun 17 2021, 08:22 AM

I just finished watching the original Alien movies. Watching Resurrection made me yearn for a Alien RPG. It would be squad-based, isometric, tactical style game, like the Baldur's Gate games, or the Pillars of Eternity ones. You would have your main character, plus up to 5 companions. They might be NPCs you meet with their own backstories and quests, or generic adventurer's you can create yourself (like in the Pillars games), or a mix of both.

The story might be that you are on a world infested with Xenomorphs. The goal, survive and escape. You work your way through the game world, meeting people and recruiting them, or fighting them. You pick up weapons along the way, maybe find gunsmiths where you can upgrade them at certain points, etc... Plus all the usual leveling up with skills.

Your team ought to be a variety of types or "classes". Mercenaries, pirates, scientists, engineers, doctors, thieves, and so on. Each ought to have something they can add, and offer different ways to resolve problems. An engineer might be able to hotwire a door, a soldier might be able to blow it open, etc...

Posted by: Renee Jun 17 2021, 12:49 PM

Yes! Alien and Alien 2 my two favorite sci fi movies. There's so many background themes in those movies... it's not just humans versus monsters. I can still remember the looks on Paul Reiser's face after he tries to lock them all in, but then he's the one who gets eaten.

I am surprised there isn't already some sort of Alien game. Oh I see, a game which is isometric, like Baldur's. Yeah that would be kick ass.

Posted by: Kane Jun 17 2021, 12:53 PM

Alien: Isolation is supposedly a fantastic game if you like a tinge of horror in your game life.

Posted by: Kane Sep 24 2021, 02:52 PM

Anyone see the SW: KOTOR news? I never played the original, so I'll probably grab the remake for sure.

Posted by: SubRosa Sep 24 2021, 11:16 PM

I had no idea what you were talking about, https://www.starwars.com/news/knights-of-the-old-republic-remake. This is interesting. Aperion was a group that previously worked on a fan-made update of Kotor 1 using the old and open-sourced Unreal engine. They got a lot done before Disney shut them down with legal threats. Maybe someone got it through their thick skulls that being good capitalists and selling people what they want is a better more than being litigious?

Now Sony is onboard. I wonder what that will mean as far as what engine the game will use. Is that a sign that it will run on something owned by Sony?

Posted by: Kane Sep 25 2021, 01:21 PM

I think Sony had an event recently and that's where the news was broken. I'm just glad that EA's exclusivity ran out. They squandered the opportunity to print money with Star Wars IP. Only thing good to come out of it was Jedi Fallen Order.

Posted by: Renee Sep 25 2021, 02:37 PM

Ah, such wonderful words. They just put a smile on my middle-aged face. Can we hear them again, but louder?

Posted by: Kane Sep 25 2021, 05:18 PM

and there is like 4 different Star Wars games in the works already just because they lost it.

Posted by: SubRosa Sep 25 2021, 11:32 PM

It just stuns me that Lucasarts/Disney made that deal with EA. I mean, it was just dumb. EA must have been really cheap is all I can figure.

Posted by: Acadian Sep 27 2021, 01:28 AM

Diablo II Resurrected (PC) was just released Sep 23. I have many fond memories of a blond bowgirl, ponytail bouncing along behind her. Amazon class with bow, affectionately called a 'bowazon'.

Posted by: SubRosa Sep 27 2021, 04:22 AM

That looks neat. I'll have to check it out further.

Posted by: PhonAntiPhon Sep 27 2021, 01:09 PM

Planning on getting this for the Switch...

Posted by: Acadian Sep 29 2021, 08:38 PM

The other game I've been watching for a time now is Horizon Zero Dawn for PC. It is currently on sale at both Steam and GoG. If you are considering it, make sure to check the requirements. It wants quite a bit of hard disc space.

Being pretty low tech and playing very few games, my experience with Steam is limited to Skyrim several years ago and never really had any Steam problems. I still have an active account there. My experience with GoG is zero but I do have an account with them. Horizon Zero Dawn is a single player game and GoG says it is DRM free so you should not need to be on line to play it. Any thoughts on whether GoG might be a better option? Both places currently have the game on sale for US $29.

Posted by: SubRosa Sep 30 2021, 01:43 AM

Gog does not have DRM or require a 3rd party company to play the game. That is all the reason I need to buy it through them.

Posted by: Acadian Sep 30 2021, 12:06 PM

Thanks for your insight, SubRosa. I was hoping my post would conjure your thoughts on it.

Posted by: Lena Wolf Sep 30 2021, 12:25 PM

I bought Oblivion and Two Worlds 2 from GOG, and they were indeed completely unbound. But they were older games, so I wasn't sure if Horizon would be the same.

Mind you though, GOG now has a new tool called Galaxy, which is very much like Steam - it wants you to be online. I think you still don't need to be online to play the game, but they want to keep tabs on you. However, you can choose to buy the game in the old-fashioned way and not through Galaxy, then it just plops it on your hard drive and that's that.

Posted by: Kane Sep 30 2021, 12:42 PM

You definitely don't need Galaxy unless you are shopping, downloading, or updating the game. I bought Stardew Valley through GOG, and I never run Galaxy. I just launch the game right from my desktop.

Posted by: Lena Wolf Sep 30 2021, 12:45 PM

Oh, so you're saying I didn't have to re-download everything... Well, never mind.

Posted by: Renee Sep 30 2021, 01:05 PM

That's good one of us is playing Stardew Valley. I just went on Wikipedia to read about Stardew Valley, which a lot of people are modding. What exactly is the game about? I wondered. There are so many mods for it on Nexus nowadays, its number of mods is closing in on the most popular Elder Scrolls titles!

Posted by: Kane Sep 30 2021, 03:01 PM

It's a lot of fun! Here is the description from the wiki:

https://stardewvalleywiki.com/Stardew_Valley_Wiki

Posted by: Kane Sep 30 2021, 05:35 PM

The writing in the game is great, too. Characters have real issues that you can help them through and none of it feels silly or over the top. Exploring the mines is always fun, and the challenge of the Skull Cavern takes serious dedication.


And yeah, mods help adjust it to your taste even though it's just as enjoyable without them. I play it on the Switch a lot and it's just as fun as the modded PC version.

https://i.imgur.com/vq6YBdv.png. It was one of my longest running farms at around year 4, I think. There has since been more updates with new content not reflected there.