Baldur's Dale, The Infinity Engine Games Thread Options

[SubRosa]

With the Enhanced Editions to Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 now out, and Gog.com having sales on both the originals and the Icewind Dale games, it seems like a good time to create a thread about our old friend the Infinity Engine.

I have Icewind Dale 1 from a long time ago, but never got too far with it back then. Other games like Diablo II and Star Trek Elite Forces caught my attention, and the old school D&D ruleset of Icewind felt too cumbersome for me. I tried installing ID1 again a few weeks ago, but could not get it to work on my Windows 7 box. So I finally broke down and bought it and ID2 off of Gog.com a few days ago. While I was at it, I discovered that Steam had a sale on the Baludur's Gate Enhanced Editions, so I bought those two. I wound up getting all four games for under $20.

I decided to start at the start, so so I rolled a toon to pwn Baldur's Gate 1. Terra started out as a regular Ranger, and I experimented with her using dual swords and a longbow. I found I liked the bow better, and thought about restarting her game to specialize as the Archer subclass. But I found EE Keeper, and instead I used it to change her class and move around her proficiency points a bit.

So far BG1 has been a blast. I still think the old school D&D rules are cumbersome and clunky. Especially where magic is concerned. I hate that memorizing spells business and having to rest to be able to cast them again. I much prefer mana point systems for mages. But gripes aside, it is still a good game, even after all these years. It feels a lot like the original Fallout rpg in its look and feel - the same isometric view and sprites. BG1 just has more party members and the D&D rules.

I have been using BruceVayne's soundsets in Oblivion for years, and many of them are BG characters. So now it is a kick to finally hear them in their original settings. I especially love Imoen and Viconia's voices. From "Good on you if you saved the day!" to "Nightsinger, give me power!". So far those are my two favorite NPCs as well. I loved Minsc in the tutorial, but have not found him yet - he's clear across the map from where we start!

My current gang is Terra (the PC), Imoen, Viconia, Neera (she's a new EE added NPC), and Kagain. I am a little light on the muscle, and am looking for another good melee fighter. I'd like to hire the new half-orc NPC Dorn, but I have not gotten the encounter where it happens yet. OTOH, the team is strong in ranged attacks, and when we all focus our fire on one target we can usually kill it on one round. Unless it is a boss. So fights against ordinary critters often consist of mowing them down before they can even reach Kagain.

So far I am not thrilled with Neera, but for now she is the only mage in town. I'd like to hire the new Drow mage the EE edition added, but he doesn't appear until 5th level. It is funny, my party seems to be going to the evil end of the spectrum. Maybe I should use EE Keeper to change Terra from Neutral Good to Neutral Evil!

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Apr 11 2022, 08:04 PM

[Callidus Thorn]

Well, I've fired up Baldur's Gate again. I've taken a few attempts at completing this in the past, but I've never managed to get as far as the actual city of Baldur's Gate

But, at least it lets me plan my party:

Callidus (No surprises there ) Elven mage/thief
Jaheira (Khallid is going to have an unfortunate "accident" )
Kagain (You just can't kill this guy, he's part troll)
Viconia (Damn useful, and funny as hell when in a party with...)
Kivan (Expert archer)
Imoen (She's going to become a conjurer later on)

I had a lot of sucess with this party on my last run, setup in the T formation: Jaheira, Kagain, and Viconia up front as a wall for the other three, all of whom carried bows.

So far... I've just rolled up my character, and dived into shadowkeeper to change his appearance, because I prefer him to look like a mage than a thief. So he looks like a human mage, despite being an Elf

[Lopov]

@SubRosa

I am a little light on the muscle, and am looking for another good melee fighter.

If you don't mind spoilers:



Kagain is a blast, he was also a member of my mostly evil party years ago, it's a shame they didn't bring him back in BGII, because many NPCs return in BGII. I don't remember the details but IIRC he regenerates health because of very high constitution.

This post has been edited by Lopov: Jul 2 2014, 07:11 PM

[SubRosa]

I love Kagain. He's the archetypical crotchety old Dwarf. I put him in platemail, and he's built like a brick shithouse. He is almost as fun as Khelgar from NWN2.

I finally made it to Nashkel. There I recruited Minsc ("The squeaky wheel gets the kick!"), and found the Ankheg Platemail in the fields. I gave the armor to Minsc, since the green fits a ranger, and as a front-liner, he seemed like he would probably need it. Especially seeing that he does not use a shield. Now we are on the way west toward the Gnoll stronghold, to rescue Dynahair. I think I will give Neera the boot then, and try out Dyna.

I have also already modded the game (a few nights ago in fact), to change Viconia's portrait to one with greyish skin, like she has in BG2.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Jul 2 2014, 08:50 PM

[Acadian]

Who needs a shield when you've got a miniature giant space hamster? Minsc and Boo.

[SubRosa]

Is there any difference between playing a Good character and an Evil one? I know there is a Reputation stat, and that the Evil characters will bolt from your party if it gets too high, and the Good ones will leave if it gets to low. But is there really an Evil path to quests as opposed to a Good one?

[Acadian]

BG I is a long time ago, so I'm going partly by BG II. A low rep stat will hurt your ability to get good deals in town. At lower ranges, some merchants may not even deal with you. At even lower ranges, guards, soldiers etc will attack you. As far as quests, there are some choices you can make in how to do them. Ultimately though, you're on a train to kill the Big Bad - he'll want you dead whether you're good or evil.

[SubRosa]

Just to see what it is like, I created Scáthach, a Lawful Evil Elf Kensai. Here she is. I think I'll use EE Keeper to give her a katana to start with, since I have no idea where to find one in BG1.

I also found this cool portrait pack for the Enhanced Editions, with hundreds of new portraits. Scáthach's portrait is from there.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Jul 29 2020, 08:48 PM

[Acadian]

I know the last time I played BG II, I was able to import a clipped screenie of Buffy's face and bring in her 'Innocent' voice set. That is a great portrait of your kensai!

[ghastley]

Is there any difference between playing a Good character and an Evil one? I know there is a Reputation stat, and that the Evil characters will bolt from your party if it gets too high, and the Good ones will leave if it gets to low. But is there really an Evil path to quests as opposed to a Good one?

My recollection of the good/evil thing was that the games are heavily biased towards the good player. A totally evil party won't be able to buy/sell anything, or stay at inns. Camping out all the time isn't viable, because of the frequency of interrupted sleep, and its effect on spell recovery. The attacks by guards etc. on evil characters isn't offset by any less attacks by anyone else.

Mixed parties break themselves up, as conflicting characters won't work together. I don't recall if there any points where the story-line is actually blocked for the evil player option, but that's possible - I never got far enough with an evil character to find out.

I got the impression that the evil recruitable characters were there to be used as short-term solutions to specific problems, You'd have them join, use their special talents to solve some quest situation, and then let them leave again (or leave them dead when they're killed). You'd want to play as a core party of three or four good characters, with a variable addition of "evils" to go that way. They often come in pairs, and you'd need both for stability.

[SubRosa]

So far Scáthach's game has been going rather well. I was worried at first about the Kensai's inability to wear armor. But going with an Elf - with the Dexterity bonus - has definitely helped. Between the 4 point bonus from her Dex, the Kensai's 2 point AC bonus, and another 2 point bonus from the Single Weapon proficiency, Scáthach started out with an Armor Class of 2. A +1 Ring of Protection found early on got that down to an AC of 1. That is a point better than Kagain in plate mail and a medium shield. Only Viconia has a better AC, with a -1 (wearing spint mail and a small shield).

Yesterday Scath made her way to the Friendly Arm Inn, and temporarily recruited Jaheria and Khalid for the extra muscle. I left Montaran and Xvar alone. Those two get on my nerves. Evil is Cool after all, and those two are not. Viconia was added soon after. She quckly proved her worth by practically putting down the Ogre Girdle Thief single-handedly. Jaheria got whacked by the spiders in Landarin's Beregost house, and I did not bother to pay to get her raised. I recruited Kagain shortly after, and then gave Khalid is walking papers (but this time I remembered to take all of his stuff first! ).

So now Scath's party consists of Kagain, Viconia, Imoen, and Neera. I found a ring that doubles the number of spells wizards get. I think it might only be the 1st level ones. But it has proved very valuable. I have been getting better with Neera too. I got rid of her staff and gave her a sling, to keep her from running up into the fight. Her chromatic orb can be devastating, so can her color spray. The trouble with the latter is not hitting the party with it too!

I know the last time I played BG II, I was able to import a clipped screenie of Buffy's face and bring in her 'Innocent' voice set. That is a great portrait of your kensai!

It wasn't easy, but managed to do the same for Scath. I found a 'Sassy' voice from this voice pack. The sound files have to be in a .wav format, so naturally the pack has them all as .obb files. So I had to convert them all. Then I had to rename them all. I found found that BG1, as 10 Custom voice slots left open. So rather than editing any .2da files, you can just rename your files Custom0a, Custom0b, and so on. Then just copy them to the Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition > Lang > en_us > sounds folder. After that is appears as Custom0 in the voice selection menu. If anyone reading wants to create a new voice set for BG1EE, you need the following files:
XXXXXXXa.wav : Battle Cry
XXXXXXXb.wav : Becoming Leader
XXXXXXXc.wav : Tired
XXXXXXXd.wav : Bored
XXXXXXXe.wav : Badly Wounded
XXXXXXXf.wav : Selected 1
XXXXXXXg.wav : Selected 2
XXXXXXXh.wav : Selected 3
XXXXXXXi.wav : Action Acknowledgement 1
XXXXXXXj.wav : Action Acknowledgement 2
XXXXXXXk.wav : Action Acknowledgement 3
XXXXXXXl.wav : Being Hit
XXXXXXXm.wav : Dying
XXXXXXXn.wav : In Forest
XXXXXXXo.wav : In City
XXXXXXXp.wav : In Dungeon
XXXXXXXq.wav : Daytime
XXXXXXXr.wav : Nighttime
XXXXXXXs.wav : Rare Selected 1
XXXXXXXt.wav : Rare Selected 2
XXXXXXXu.wav : Rare Selected 3
XXXXXXXv.wav : Rare Selected 4
XXXXXXXw.wav : Reaction to Party Member Death

XXXXXXXa.wav would be Custom0a, and so on. Your second voice pack would be Custom1a and so on, etc...

Is there any difference between playing a Good character and an Evil one? I know there is a Reputation stat, and that the Evil characters will bolt from your party if it gets too high, and the Good ones will leave if it gets to low. But is there really an Evil path to quests as opposed to a Good one?

My recollection of the good/evil thing was that the games are heavily biased towards the good player. A totally evil party won't be able to buy/sell anything, or stay at inns. Camping out all the time isn't viable, because of the frequency of interrupted sleep, and its effect on spell recovery. The attacks by guards etc. on evil characters isn't offset by any less attacks by anyone else.

Mixed parties break themselves up, as conflicting characters won't work together. I don't recall if there any points where the story-line is actually blocked for the evil player option, but that's possible - I never got far enough with an evil character to find out.

I got the impression that the evil recruitable characters were there to be used as short-term solutions to specific problems, You'd have them join, use their special talents to solve some quest situation, and then let them leave again (or leave them dead when they're killed). You'd want to play as a core party of three or four good characters, with a variable addition of "evils" to go that way. They often come in pairs, and you'd need both for stability.

It definitely does seem to be geared toward the Good side. But it doesn't seem that hard to keep your reputation up high enough to avoid people attacking you on sight either. You just have to do a few quests to get Rep points. Usually that means big experience point rewards too. Scath returned Joia's ring. It didn't net her any money, as selling it would. But OTOH, Joia "paid" for it with a hefy amount of xp, which is worth more than gold. It also bumped up her Rep a point. You have to kiss a few babies in between stealing their candy. It has worked for politicians for millennia.

At the moment I am thinking long term for party members to be Dorn and Kagain for tanks. Viconia has the cleric spot sewn up. I will try Edwin on as a wizard, but I'd also like to give Baeloth a try too. He looks cooler. That would leave Imoen as the only Good character. I don't want to lose her, because I love her voice.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Jul 29 2020, 08:48 PM

[Renee]

Ahh, this is really a good idea. I have Baldur's Gate on my old computer, I think I got it from Gamestop.com, actually. It was my 2nd PC game. I was really into it for about a month, and then I got distracted. By the time I returned to BG, I couldn't get it to work. Then I got into Arena, and then Oblivion ....

I do want to give BG another try at some point, though. I need something other than Elder Scrolls. I might have to start all over again with the install.

It's a fun game for me, as a former table-gamer. I know what you mean about the spell memorization part; when we table-gamed, we primarily used a different system of rules from a gaming company called The Fantasy Trip (TFT), which has been out of business since the early 90s. The way TFT does it, I believe spells used up Intelligence or Strength instead of the way DnD does it. We did use DnD to 'enrich' our gameworlds, though. DnD has a heck of a lot more creatures, friends and foes in its encounter tables. More rules to flesh out environments, more potions & spells, that sort of thing.

Like I said, I'm glad you're doing BG. Maybe I'll join you.

This post has been edited by Renee Gade IV: Jul 4 2014, 02:39 AM

[SubRosa]

Scathach and company have been roaming around east of Beregost. While in the Temple area they came across a pack of dread wolves, worgs, and vampiric wolves that were particularly difficult. Here is a somewhat long vid of the battle. It is a little small, but that is what you get for an old game. I have it on the highest resolution possible.

Ahh, this is really a good idea. I have Baldur's Gate on my old computer, I think I got it from Gamestop.com, actually. It was my 2nd PC game. I was really into it for about a month, and then I got distracted. By the time I returned to BG, I couldn't get it to work. Then I got into Arena, and then Oblivion ....

I do want to give BG another try at some point, though. I need something other than Elder Scrolls. I might have to start all over again with the install.

It's a fun game for me, as a former table-gamer. I know what you mean about the spell memorization part; when we table-gamed, we primarily used a different system of rules from a gaming company called The Fantasy Trip (TFT), which has been out of business since the early 90s. The way TFT does it, I believe spells used up Intelligence or Strength instead of the way DnD does it. We did use DnD to 'enrich' our gameworlds, though. DnD has a heck of a lot more creatures, friends and foes in its encounter tables. More rules to flesh out environments, more potions & spells, that sort of thing.

Like I said, I'm glad you're doing BG. Maybe I'll join you.

D&D was my first table-top RPG, back in the misty dawn of time my teen years. Back then it was AD&D, and there were no 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th editions yet. The people I gamed with used the rules as a basic framework too, then added on a lot of house rules. The magic system was the biggest difference, as we used a system where you got a number of mana points per level equal to your intelligence (or karma points equal to your wisdom if you were a cleric). Every spell had a certain mana or karma cost. So you could keep casting whatever spells you wanted, until you were out of mana/karma. Then you had to wait a certain amount of time to get those points back. I think it was 1/3rd your total every 8 hours. So after a day you got it all back.

But I moved on from D&D after a few years, to games like Marvel Superheros, West End's Star Wars (this is before it got turned into a d20 system game), Champions/Fuzion, Call of Cthulhu, and my favorites: Shadowrun & Earthdawn. Then after a long time I joined a bunch who were doing Earthdawn, and they wanted to try out D&D again. By then it was the 3rd Edition. I thought it was alright. A big improvement over the old AD&D I started with. Especially with all the perks. Though I still liked other games better. It is funny, because D&D is definitely the most widely known role playing game there is. Yet I would say it is easily the worst of the bunch. Maybe I am being too harsh. I should just say it was definitely my least favorite of all the RPGs I played for any length of time.

But to Baldur's Gate. Back in the day it was out I was under the impression that it was a much more linear styled game. Now that I am playing it, I can see it has a wonderfully open, sandbox-styled game world. It has to be the most open-world Bioware game I have ever played. Most of their games are semi-linear, in that they start with an introductory section, or a Chapter 0. Not just the tutorial, but a first act that gets the story of their main quest going. Like the city of Neverwinter in NWN1, the Endar Spire/Taris in Kotor 1, or the character origin/Ostagar in Dragon Age Origins, etc... Then they tend to throw out about 4 or 5 different 'hubs' you can visit in whatever order you like. But you have to go through them all no matter what, and once you are done with them, there is no point going back, because there is nothing to see or do there anymore. Then once all of those are done you are ushered into the final act, which is usually shorter than the middle hubs, but big on action.

But BG is apparently from before Bioware locked themselves into that pattern. It is more like a Bethesda game, in that after the introductory act, you are tossed out into a wide world. Even though you are strongly prodded to go a certain way, and meet certain people who prod you very unsubtly to go to another certain way, you really can say "F that" and do whatever you want. Which is pretty much what I have been doing. I have also found that enemies do respawn after you clear out areas. Not all of them, but there will be critters roaming around when you go back to a place you emptied out previously. So you could just wander around grinding your toons to become uber pwnage I OWN YOU N00BS! if you want to. I think that is what really draws me. Not the grinding toons, but the open world. It really does make an excellent alternate to a Bethesda game.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Jul 4 2014, 04:08 AM

[Renee]

Ha ha your mana points system almost sounds like a mod. It's the earliest version of mods.

We also had our own table-mods, one of my favorites was a system of Feudalism a friend worked up after studying Medieval Feudalism in high school. We also had rules for various drug effects (it was possible to find pot and coca leaves and alcohol, magic mushrooms, etc.). We also had a system for personality types. Some personalities were more prone towards drug addiction. Or womanizing. Or wh0ring, etc. Lying. Cheating. Looking back on it, it seems like everything we learned about the world around us (Earth, that is) could possibly wind up in our game, in some distorted way.

Then they tend to throw out about 4 or 5 different 'hubs' you can visit in whatever order you like. But you have to go through them all no matter what, and once you are done with them, there is no point going back, because there is nothing to see or do there anymore. Then once all of those are done you are ushered into the final act, which is usually shorter than the middle hubs, but big on action.

Interesting. See, I've never played a Bioware game before until BG on PC, did not know any of this. I tried playing Dragon Age 2 (the game a lot of ppl don't like) but it didn't really grab me, so after an hour of gameplay I took the disc out of my Ps3, and fired up Oblivion.

So you could just wander around grinding your toons to become uber pwnage I OWN YOU N00BS!

Yeah, buff those toons, let's go pwn some NPCs! .. Yeah, it is very open world. Bioware must have been so different back then, before they were bought out.

Just before my BG game wouldn't run any more, Lopov found a site which features cheat codes. I normally don't cheat, but one of the issues I had with BG was poison. I've never seen so much deadly poison in a game. It's not like in ES, where a poison will have very minor effects, the poisons in BG can frickiin' KILL you. A lot of enemies carry it too.

So if (when) I return to BG, one of the only Cheats I'm going to employ is a supply of Antidote potions. Because if the enemy can carry THAT much poison, I want to be able to combat this. I'll just RP it as one of my characters knows how to brew these antidotes up.

This post has been edited by Renee Gade IV: Jul 4 2014, 05:37 AM

[SubRosa]

Interesting. See, I've never played a Bioware game before until BG on PC, did not know any of this. I tried playing Dragon Age 2 (the game a lot of ppl don't like) but it didn't really grab me, so after an hour of gameplay I took the disc out of my Ps3, and fired up Oblivion.

They are still good games. Well most of them at least. I loved the Knights of the Old Republic and Neverwinter Nights games. Dragon Age Origins was decent too. But if you play one, you kind of already know how to play the others. They have the same basic UI, same 3rd person isometric view. Same way of splitting the game between tactical and campaign maps, Same point and click to move and attack, and so on. I never needed to look at the manual for DAO, as I had already knew how it worked from playing KOTOR. I never tried out DA2. The negative comments about it are so pervasive, that I would rather try one of the horde of other games out there which I have never played.

Mass Effect 1 did not do much for me. It didn't have the same cookie-cutter UI and set of game rules the other games had. But it came at the expense of gutting out just about everything that made those games interesting to play. In the end I only finished it because I wanted to see how the story worked out. The gameplay itself left me massively underwhelmed. I played Mass Effect 2 about the same way you did DA2. After about a half hour or an hour I said "F This!" and went back to playing Oblivion!

Just before my BG game wouldn't run any more, Lopov found a site which features cheat codes. I normally don't cheat, but one of the issues I had with BG was poison. I've never seen so much deadly poison in a game. It's not like in ES, where a poison will have very minor effects, the poisons in BG can frickiin' KILL you. A lot of enemies carry it too.

So if (when) I return to BG, one of the only Cheats I'm going to employ is a supply of Antidote potions. Because if the enemy can carry THAT much poison, I want to be able to combat this. I'll just RP it as one of my characters knows how to brew these antidotes up.

I know what you mean about the poisons! That is what killed Jaheria - spider poison. It does 2 points of damage every turn, and it never stops! Imoen got killed by a spider poison too. But I drew the line there. I fired up EE Keeper and opened up a save from just before she died, and used it to set her back to full health and turn off the poison. Unlike a Beth game where you can just turn on the healing spout until you are back up to full health, in these games healing is hard to come by. Your cleric has a couple of heals, and you might have a few potions, and that is it. So you have to save them up for when you really need them in the middle of a fight, and rest up all the time between battles.

I think i will try your idea out, and say that Viconia knows how to brew antidotes. Having once served the Spider Queen, I imagine that poison was an ordinary fact of life she had to look out for, like we watch out for cars when we cross the street!

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Jul 4 2014, 05:08 PM

[SubRosa]

Just had a great moment. Scáthach and company were attacked by half a dozen Hobgoblins. Not too dangerous, but there were a lot of them. So I decided to lead with a color spray from Neera. One of those random, wacky Wild Magic moments happened, and instead of a color spray, she cast a fireball (a spell she does not know btw. That is what makes wild magic, well... you know). Boom! She one-shot kills every Hobgoblin.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Jul 29 2020, 08:48 PM

[SubRosa]

My party finally reached 5th level. It certainly takes a while to level up in this game. My guess is because experience points are divided out among the party. So the larger the party, the less xp each character gets. With that partly in mind I have been keeping the group down to 5 members. 6 people seem to get in each others way more too. I briefly had 6 when I recruited Safana. But I didn't like her voice, so I let her go before even finishing the same level I found her on.

Anyway, since I am high enough level now, I went and recruited Baeloth in Larswood. I have to say, he is a hoot!. I love his voice acting. It is sort of like Dr. Smith from the original Lost in Space, but less cowardly, more bloodthirsty. One of his battlecries is "I'm going to work out some anger on you!" So as much as I have grown fond of Neera, I decided to let her go in favor of Baeloth. So now Imoen is the only Good member of the party.

He's also damn powerful. He starts with a ring that gives him extra spells, and I gave him Evermemory. Now he has something like 24 first level spells he can cast. Or since he is a Sorcerer, he can cast any 1st level spell he knows 24 times.

I have to say, I am liking the Sorcerer class. Not having to memorize spells is great. It is such a pain in the rear to have to change the spells Neera knows whenever I have to identify items, rest so that she can use them, then rest again afterward so she can change back to her regular loadout. She is supposed to be able to cast any spell she knows when using Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, but I have found that is not the case. She knows Identify, and it never appears in the list of spells she can cast with it.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Jul 5 2014, 09:10 PM

[Acadian]

Wow, they must have done some adding and blending to BG I. Originally, the 'class kits' like Sorcerer, Archer, Kensai etc were not added till BG II. That is great news though. Yes, the Sorcerer class solves the most annoying aspects of the regular D&D mages.

[SubRosa]

Besides the bug fixes and upgraded screen resolution and widescreen support, one of the good things about the Enhanced Editions is that they were able to take the 'newer' things from BG2 and put them in BG1. So you can play all the special classes like Bards, Barbarians, and so forth, and all their various sub-classes. There are even some new classes, like Blackguards. As I understand it, gameplay-wise it is just like playing BG2.

You should give the Enhanced Editions a try.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Jul 6 2014, 12:37 AM

[Acadian]

Oh that sounds great! One of the reasons I didn't go back to BGI after II was because I got spoiled by all the gameplay improvements in II.