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I'm Lost!, non-linear dungeons in Skyrim |
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Lady Saga |
Feb 13 2013, 12:49 AM
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Mouth
Joined: 20-February 12
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I am finding Skyrim's dungeons to be easy to walk through most of the time. Most of Skyrim's dungeons simply go one direction: in and out, with very few side passages. If there's a second or third way to go, very often it'll immediately dead-end, and it becomes very obvious which direction is the one we're looking for. ....This is one thing I like about dungeons in Cyrodiil: yes they are sparser, and aren't packed with stuff (as Skyrim's lairs are) but oftentimes Cyrodiilic lairs will feature areas with multiple directions to go in. They challenge us to remember which way is the right one! We might come to a room for instance that has 2, 3, 4, 5... I've seen up to 6 or 7 exits! Which way is the right way? ... I used to wind up going in circles in some of Cyrodiil's: especially caves and Ayleid ruins. Forts aren't as hard, but also could offer some twists and turns, and if the player (me) was not using the map, all a sudden I could be seriously lost for hours! This thread is going to be dedicated to those lairs in Skyrim that have the ability to get us seriously lost. Mycharonna the Ice Witch is in one such lair at the moment. It is called Fallowstone Cave There is a quest related to this cave but I won't spoil. Anyways, this is a big cave, with one very large main cavern. And it's not so much that there's multiple directions to go (multiple exits, that is) that the cave is just so large, with all sorts of ledges to climb upon. There are also some side exits here and there. I think I've found three so far. I won't spoil, but they do lead to some interesting little things! Anyways, if anybody has other such places that they've found, I want to see what others have discovered. Shriekwind BastionFort NeugradAlftand Nchuand-ZelThis post has been edited by Lady Saga: Mar 7 2013, 03:20 PM
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flowerboom |
Feb 13 2013, 03:15 PM
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Agent
Joined: 2-February 13
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QUOTE(Lady Saga @ Feb 12 2013, 11:49 PM) I am finding Skyrim's dungeons to be easy to walk through most of the time. Most of Skyrim's dungeons simply go one direction: in and out, with very few side passages. If there's a second or third way to go, very often it'll immediately dead-end, and it becomes very obvious which direction is the one we're looking for. ....This is one thing I like about dungeons in Cyrodiil: yes they are sparser, and aren't packed with stuff (as Skyrim's lairs are) but oftentimes Cyrodiilic lairs will feature areas with multiple directions to go in. They challenge us to remember which way is the right one! We might come to a room for instance that has 2, 3, 4, 5... I've seen up to 6 or 7 exits! Which way is the right way? ... I used to wind up going in circles in some of Cyrodiil's: especially caves and Ayleid ruins. Forts aren't as hard, but also could offer some twists and turns, and if the player (me) was not using the map, all a sudden I could be seriously lost for hours! This thread is going to be dedicated to those lairs in Skyrim that have the ability to get us seriously lost. Mycharonna the Ice Witch is in one such lair at the moment. It is called Fallowstone Cave <-I will put a link here, tomorrow) There is a quest related to this cave but I won't spoil. Anyways, this is a big cave, with one very large main cavern. And it's not so much that there's multiple directions to go (multiple exits, that is) that the cave is just so large, with all sorts of ledges to climb upon. There are also some side exits here and there. I think I've found three so far. I won't spoil, but they do lead to some interesting little things! Anyways, if anybody has other such places that they've found, I want to see what others have found. But no quest-related spoilers, please! Haha people act like "hand-crafted" dungeons are a new thing , in the oblivion dem videos todd actually says all of oblivions dungeons are hand crafted I think 80% of skyrim dungeons are boring and linear . Oblivion had some interest ( like the ayelid statues) This post has been edited by flowerboom: Feb 13 2013, 03:16 PM
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ghastley |
Feb 13 2013, 03:44 PM
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Councilor
Joined: 13-December 10
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I've been replaying Daggerfall recently, and most of those dungeons are complex mazes that are so confusing my characters won't go in until they have a Recall spell to instantly take them back to the entrance. They're constructed out of blocks that you can get familiar with, but the blocks are connected at random, so familiarity breaks down at the joins.
They also have an unfortunate problem with the target cell sometimes being unreachable without levitation, or some other mechanism the player may not have available. In extreme cases the target can be in a cell with no doors!
I've also installed Arena, but haven't checked out the dungeons yet. I'm guessing that, based on the apparent simplification trend you're describing, that they will be totally impossible.
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Mods for The Elder Scrolls single-player games, and I play ESO.
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ghastley |
Feb 13 2013, 04:44 PM
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Councilor
Joined: 13-December 10
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Daggerfall had a Main Quest sequence that was non-linear, and some parts were optional. All the quests in that had hand-placed quest items (not generally loot, more things you needed for the next quest). You'd also find randomly-generated loot on enemies, and loot piles in those dungeons.
The same set of building blocks was used in the MQ dungeons, but they'd also have unique parts, generally the ones that contained the quest item. Proportions of generic to unique varied.
Locations of "boss loot" or unique artifacts were hand-placed in the sense that the building block sections of dungeon had those location pre-specified, and those were typically behind hidden doors etc. But a quest from a Daedric Lord to find a unique artifact might make use of a randomly-selected dungeon, and the artifact would be generated at the appropriate point in that. One or two of the MQ series worked this way and you could be sent to any one of a small selection of dungeons to find the next item, but most sent you to a specific location.
All of the dungeon layouts are fixed, but they were generated by a random process by Bethsoft, and then baked-in. If you go back to a dungeon a second time, it will be the same layout as before, although the monsters and loot will have re-spawned, with new random selection. You'd probably not notice, as the huge number of dungeons swamps your memory of their layouts.
Enemies in dungeons are generally level-scaled to match the player, but the game throws in a few random ones that aren't. Your level-1 character may run into a level-21 lich in the first place they visit! And to balance that, a level 50 character will still find rats.
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Mods for The Elder Scrolls single-player games, and I play ESO.
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flowerboom |
Feb 13 2013, 05:14 PM
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Agent
Joined: 2-February 13
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yeah well have you noticed you get a pattern in skyims dungeons as well ? I dont find oblivions dungeons linear AT ALL , granted the loot is tedious but every ruin is differant and has interesting unique features. From what i can see , and i have extensivly dungeon-dived there has been no improvement whatsoever on hand-crafted dungeons . Bar a few "demo" dungeons made to project a fake image of skyrim ( like bleak falls barrow) Mind you 95% of skyrim is like this , eveything is scripted , less quests , less quest hours , anybody see bards collage ? What a JOKE , they made two quests for it . One of which was a boring dungeon-dive and the other one was half-compleed , typical of skyrim , the "new" way of tes thinking. After playing the game once i have no inclination to play t again , the companions had what ? 5 quests , ow sure it had tons of " radiant" quests. If i want that type of quest i can go on a gameing site , not waste my money on an over-priced game Yup im a harsh critic of skyrim , the game was a joke compared to the previous two titles , just my opinion ..... This post has been edited by flowerboom: Feb 13 2013, 05:15 PM
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Lady Saga |
Feb 13 2013, 05:52 PM
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Mouth
Joined: 20-February 12
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Feb 13 2013, 10:44 AM) All of the dungeon layouts are fixed, but they were generated by a random process by Bethsoft, and then baked-in. If you go back to a dungeon a second time, it will be the same layout as before, although the monsters and loot will have re-spawned, with new random selection. You'd probably not notice, as the huge number of dungeons swamps your memory of their layouts.
This is interesting! There is a game on PS2 called Champions of Norrath that randomly creates worlds and dungeons, too. CoN is a game I was rabidly playing (and replaying) back before I got OB because every time I started a new CoN game, its world was a little bit different. QUOTE(Grits @ Feb 13 2013, 11:00 AM) Saga, I had to go to the uesp to get Jensa out of Fallowstone Cave or she and Stenvar would still be in there. That was fun. Fallowstone Cave is actually a surprisingly simple dungeon once the gamer figures it out! It's another in-and-out, really. The difference is there's all sorts of little niches and areas to get stuck on as we try to navigate "in and out". But once I figured it out, I was like OH...duh..! Took me over an hour (Earth time) to get back outside of Fallowstone to Skyrim, though. QUOTE(flowerboom @ Feb 13 2013, 11:14 AM) I dont find oblivions dungeons linear AT ALL , granted the loot is tedious but every ruin is differant and has interesting unique features.
You talkin' to me? I never said Oblivion's dungeons are linear...that's the point I was trying to make in the OP. They often are not linear. QUOTE Yup im a harsh critic of skyrim , the game was a joke compared to the previous two titles , just my opinion .....
I disagree, but I'm tired of disagreeing with people lately, and then having to defend my point of view.
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flowerboom |
Feb 13 2013, 06:13 PM
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Agent
Joined: 2-February 13
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in fairness skyrims ruins were very interesting , in particular the dwemer ones
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Lady Saga |
Feb 14 2013, 01:19 AM
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Mouth
Joined: 20-February 12
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QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Feb 13 2013, 12:07 PM) I did get lost in Alftand, Cool, thanks for sharing. As I explore Skyrim more and more I'm going to be using this thread to see if I experience the same things (feeling lost!) in the places people bring up. QUOTE(flowerboom @ Feb 13 2013, 12:13 PM) in fairness skyrims ruins were very interesting , in particular the dwemer ones
I really love Skyrim. I don't care if you do or don't, but it hurts my feelings that you feel you have to bash it to pieces in a thread that I started. This post has been edited by Lady Saga: Feb 14 2013, 01:21 AM
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King Coin |
Feb 14 2013, 03:28 PM
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Master
Joined: 6-January 11
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QUOTE(Lopov @ Feb 14 2013, 02:38 AM) There is one camp north of Whiterun, I think it's called Halted Stream Camp where it's obvious that bandits were running sort of 'butchering-mammoth' operation - it kinda gives some purpose to the camp!
I love it that the bandits in the forts/castles/caves all seem to have some sort of plot going on. In Oblivion (not to put it down, Oblivion is a wonderful game that I played for many years) most of the bandits just seemed to be hanging out where ever they were for no particular reason.
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Lady Saga |
Mar 9 2013, 01:59 AM
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Mouth
Joined: 20-February 12
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QUOTE(King Coin @ Feb 13 2013, 09:23 AM) Nchuand-Zel is a Dwemer dungeon located inside of Markarth's Understone Keep. It is a sizable dungeon that I didn't quite get lost in, but I did wonder "how the heck do I get over there?" You can see the path you need to take, but you aren't quite sure how to get there.
Yes, i am in this lair now, and can defintely see what you mean. I have linked all the places so far in the OP by the way, to keep things easy to navigate.
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