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> Stormcloak Or Imperial, Which side are you on?
Stormcloak, Imperial, or Thalmor?
Which did you choose?
Stormcloak [ 7 ] ** [33.33%]
Imperial [ 8 ] ** [38.10%]
Thalmor [ 1 ] ** [4.76%]
Independent [ 2 ] ** [9.52%]
Other [ 3 ] ** [14.29%]
Total Votes: 21
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King Of Beasts
post Jan 12 2013, 03:54 AM
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Welcome! Which side are you on? Are you a strong, patriotic Stormcloak? Or are you a loyal, sophisticated Imperial? What about a powerful Thalmor Mage? Do you believe Ulfric Stormcloak truly cares about the good people of Skyrim, and agree that the Empire has turned it's back on Skyrim and Talos, or do you believe that the Stormcloaks are just a bunch of rebels, under a false leader who cares about nobody but himself? Perhaps you're a Thalmor agent who's just going to sit back and enjoy the show?

Please no arguing, insulting, flaming, etc, etc. Debates are welcome as long as they don't get out of hand. In this thread you can pick what side you chose and explain why.

Thank You,
-KoB

I chose the Stormcloaks. Honestly, the empire turned their backs on all of Tamriel, and abandoning Talos made everything worse. I think Titus Mede is a complete coward. I don't think Uriel Septim would have surrendered to the Thalmor even if he was at the wrong end of a Thalmor blade. He'd want the empire to keep fighting.

Truthfully, I think Ulfric Stormcloak is a racist, self centered [censored], but he does have a good cause.

This post has been edited by King Of Beasts: Jan 12 2013, 03:56 AM


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Elisabeth Hollow
post Jan 12 2013, 06:49 AM
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I smell a civil war coming...


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Colonel Mustard
post Jan 12 2013, 10:33 AM
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I picked Stormcloaks. Yes, they are a bit racist, but they're also fighting the Thalmor. And I really, really hate those guys.
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Uleni Athram
post Jan 12 2013, 11:38 AM
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The Redguards of Hammerfell. Fought the Dominion to a standstill to the point that they forced the highly militaristic elves to a peace treaty.

They forced. The Dominion. Who believes so much in their racial they crown themselves the master race. Who doesn't believe in any sort of peace between the 'lesser' races.

To a godsdamned peace treaty.

All by their own.

Bad. @ss.


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King Of Beasts
post Jan 12 2013, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE(Colonel Mustard @ Jan 12 2013, 01:33 AM) *

I picked Stormcloaks. Yes, they are a bit racist, but they're also fighting the Thalmor. And I really, really hate those guys.


I agree with you on that 100% I just HATE the Thalmor. Not because they are elves, but because they banned the worship of Talos and think elves are the SUPERIOR race. I'm fine with elves, but I don't think there is a superior race.


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Captain Hammer
post Jan 13 2013, 02:40 AM
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I support High King Balgruuf the Greater.

He's the only candidate that will advance the claim of a new Dragonborn Emperor over all Tamriel.

Thalmor can suck it when I fly a full wing of Legendary, Revered, and Elder Dragons to fire-and-frost-bomb Alinor.

Will probably need dragon-carriers. But, Ice Form Shout + Ship building = Habbakuk.


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Elisabeth Hollow
post Jan 13 2013, 03:37 AM
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QUOTE(Captain Hammer @ Jan 12 2013, 07:40 PM) *

I support High King Balgruuf the Greater.




HEAR, HEAR! As long as someone Horrible doesn't show up with a freeze ray, you'll be good tongue.gif


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Darkness Eternal
post Jan 13 2013, 08:09 AM
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The Empire. I would admire them even more if they adopted Thalmor tactics and used it to subjugate their enemies.


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Colonel Mustard
post Jan 13 2013, 02:57 PM
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QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Jan 13 2013, 07:09 AM) *
The Empire. I would admire them even more if they adopted Thalmor tactics and used it to subjugate their enemies.

I'd admire them even if more if they'd actually won the war against the friggin' Thalmor.
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Darkness Eternal
post Jan 13 2013, 03:08 PM
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QUOTE(Colonel Mustard @ Jan 13 2013, 02:57 PM) *

QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Jan 13 2013, 07:09 AM) *
The Empire. I would admire them even more if they adopted Thalmor tactics and used it to subjugate their enemies.

I'd admire them even if more if they'd actually won the war against the friggin' Thalmor.

I would too, if they used the same tactics and inquisitorial talents the Thalmor did. They would more efficient, and they would fighting the Thalmor in their own game. You think the Thalmor got to their level of power by being too forward? They were sneaky, deceitful and perfect! I haste them, and I would rather see the Empire be like that, only because I dislike High Elves and the Thalmor's final goal is ridiculous! Seriously, turning Nirn into the Spirit Realm?


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I long for scenes where man hath never trod
A place where woman never smiled or wept
There to abide with my Creator, God,
And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept,
Untroubling and untroubled where I lie
The grass below—above the vaulted sky.”
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King Coin
post Jan 13 2013, 04:02 PM
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I voted Imperial. Read about the Battle of the Red Ring and how they took back the Imperial City from the Thalmor and what happened to the Thalmor general.


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Lady Saga
post Jan 13 2013, 04:53 PM
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Stormcloaks, personally. They want to worship Talos and run their own land, and the Imperials should back off and let them. The Imperials merely joined took the lesser evil road (giving in to the Thalmor) rather than truely facing up to them. I understand why they did this, but I still vote Stormcloaks.

None of my characters have truely chosen and joined a side. Lord Haaf-Mersey and a couple of my others are Stormcloak sympathizers, but they have no desire to join them officially in the Civil war itself.




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jack cloudy
post Jan 13 2013, 05:15 PM
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Hmm, I have a hard time making myself join the Stormcloaks. I just can't, even with a character who is best described as an amoral murderhappy honoured user. I had to go full force into evil territory with a Thalmor spy before I could and it still leaves me uncomfortable.

The way I see it, the civil war is nothing but good for the Thalmor. Ulfric ruins the Empire's ability to recover from the last war and prepare for the next. If Ulfric wins, the empire will have to commit even more manpower and resources to stopping him because I don't see the man stopping at just one province. If that dragon hadn't showed up at the beginning of the game, either Skyrim would have gone up in flames with martyr Ulfric, or Tullius would have taken control and restored the peace. Either way, the empire would not have to worry about the northern unrest anymore. (Hence the insertion of a Thalmor. In case they couldn't convince Tullius to give up Ulfric, who would then conveniently escape and renew the war, the spy would save him and infiltrate his court.)



But that is mere pragmatism I suppose. The real issues I have with the Stormcloaks start with the cart-ride. Ralof really comes across as too much of a brainwashed fanatic for me to like him and it only gets worse from there. I don't want Ulfric as High King. I don't want a guy who surrounds himself with bootlickers, who monologues to himself on how he is a true Nord who must be High King. I don't want a Sith High King who deals in absolutes. (You're either with me, or against me!)

Talos? Thalmor? Sure, the Stormcloaks yabber on about that, but they also keep yabbering on about Ulfric. Their personal anthem (which is as bad as the Imperial one, mind you) finds it important to repeat how awesome and totally kingly Ulfric is, while refusing to mention Talos and the Thalmor.



Then there is the true Nordness and upholding of the old traditions. Yes, it sounds nice on paper. But Ulfric is only a traditions guy when it is convenient to him. Kill the High King through trial of combat? Hell yes! Let us ignore on how I used the voice which the High King probably never even saw before. It shows how the High King lacked the ambition and commitment or something. (More like he lacked the training in fus-ing.) Also, the voice is a ranged weapon, which by its nature I would say disqualifies Ulfric in a presumably melee-duel.

But let the Moot happen, one of those other Nordly traditions? Hell no! They would not bend down and kiss Ulfric's boots! So damn the Jarls and damn the Moot! Let us grab some old crown thingy and tell everyone it is some super awesome duper crown that only the High King can wear (Ulfric). That will show them!


Oh, and I suppose there are the parts where Windhelm is a ghetto and falling to pieces in crime while Ulfric plays warlord, but that's really secondary to the whole cult of personality and fanaticism thing.


To be honest, I don't even care about Talos all that much. So what if you aren't allowed to publically worship the guy? It was an open secret that nobody, Empire and Nords, gave a damn about the concordat until Ulfric started screaming about it and invading the other holds.


So I'm not Stormcloak. Am I empire? I don't know. I haven't really investigated the other side of the coin in any depth yet. I doubt the civil war will really matter though. Given current tendencies, two weeks after the completion of the main quest, Dragonborn runs of to Atmora in search for Ysgramor's holy loincloth. Then Tullius and Ulfric both die, avalanches wipe out all of Skyrim and Falmer play football with Nord heads. Meanwhile, the Thalmor laugh.


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King Coin
post Jan 13 2013, 06:05 PM
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QUOTE(jack cloudy @ Jan 13 2013, 10:15 AM) *

<snip>

Enjoyable read, the ending paragraph especially. laugh.gif


In short, I've found Ulfric to be a d*ck as well.


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Elisabeth Hollow
post Jan 13 2013, 06:37 PM
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He is a big floppy butthead. I don't like him, nor the Thalmor, and feel like the Empire is only doing what needs to be done to survive. But I'm not on their side either. With my first playthrough I played Empire's side because I wanted to see the ending of the quest.



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SubRosa
post Jan 13 2013, 07:07 PM
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I am not a big fan of depriving people of their right to self determination. Perhaps that is because as an American, I come from a nation that was born from people overthrowing what we saw as the tyranny of a foreign power. Nor do I support religious oppression, especially not when it means the kidnapping, torture, and murder of anyone accused of worshiping the 'wrong' deity. Plus, I find that collaborating with an enemy that wants to destroy you is just plain stupid. Finally, when people try to cut my head off for shits and giggles, it really ticks me off.

Ralof was right, you really did see the true face of the Empire at Helgen. It is a state where people are kidnapped and murdered without any sort of legal recourse. The Imperials not only never gave you a fair trial or even the chance to explain yourself, they never gave the Stormcloaks any sort of trial at all. No one was going to get any sort of say at all there. There was not even a five minute drumhead affair where the outcome was already decided. Even tyrants like Henry VIII gave people a show trial followed by a first-class beheading. Instead these are people who murder prisoners of war out of hand, and it is so routine that no one even questions it. Given that they have allowed the Thalmor free reign to roam about the Empire and do the same to whoever they please, it really shows how low the Empire has sunk. Once upon a time an Emperor gave his life for the people of Tamriel. Now the Emperor gives the lives of everyone else for his own safety and comfort.

So I have to go with Stormcloaks here.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Jan 13 2013, 07:18 PM


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Colonel Mustard
post Jan 13 2013, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE(jack cloudy @ Jan 13 2013, 04:15 PM) *
<Snippedyboopwapshadupshadupshadupdupbadoo>

This is an accurate assessment, but I'd say it's an ultimately flawed (and pretty damn cynical at points; Ralof being brainwashed? Really?) conclusion; yes, Ulfric is not a nice person and maybe somewhat hypocritical, but out of all the big players in Skyrim he's the only one who demonstrates the drive, determination and, most importantly of all, ability to actually make Skyrim into a stable, free nation. And considering that the alternatives are the Thalmor who seem to be quite happy to kill or oppress every non elf or an empire that's proven that it's no longer strong enough to call itself an empire and lacks the power to secure its own borders or the freedom of its citizens, Ulfric seems to be the best of a bad bunch; even if they're not perfect, the Stormcloaks seem to actually have the best interests of Skyrim at heart.

Ideally, however, I'd have liked it if you'd have been able to broker a proper peace treaty between the Imperial Legion and the Stormcloaks in order to give the Thalmor a proper good kicking in not just Skyrim but in a good chunk of the rest of Cyrodiil, but I can see that being a bit of a stretch, storytelling-wise. The moral ambiguity and the fact that the game makes you think about your choices is better writing, I'd say.
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Lady Saga
post Jan 13 2013, 07:34 PM
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QUOTE(jack cloudy @ Jan 13 2013, 11:15 AM) *


The way I see it, the civil war is nothing but good for the Thalmor.


It's two against one, basically. Thalmor and Imperials against the Stormcloaks. So yeah, it's in the Thalmor's best interest to have an ally they can now use to help them conquer other lands.




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Elisabeth Hollow
post Jan 13 2013, 07:52 PM
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I wonder if the next TES game will be taking down the Thalmor after they've gained control over all provinces except one small one.

Picture it: You're a prisoner of the Thalmor, and you're aided in escape by a n individual who "heard" you might fight the Thalmor. Then you could choose which side to be on, Thalmor or rebels.


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Colonel Mustard
post Jan 13 2013, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE(Elisabeth Hollow @ Jan 13 2013, 06:52 PM) *
I wonder if the next TES game will be taking down the Thalmor after they've gained control over all provinces except one small one.

Picture it: You're a prisoner of the Thalmor, and you're aided in escape by a n individual who "heard" you might fight the Thalmor. Then you could choose which side to be on, Thalmor or rebels.

Rumour has it that the next TES game may be set in the Summerset Isles, so something a bit like that could be the case, just set in the Isles.
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