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Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods |
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Acadian |
Apr 24 2015, 03:45 AM
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Paladin
Joined: 14-March 10
From: Las Vegas
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Gstaff, of Bethesda, announced on the Bethesda forum that Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods. Here's the thread. To say the reaction there has been underwhelming is a massive understatement. If I spend more than a moment pondering unintended consequences and pitfalls, I’m afraid I must agree with the ominous implications this has for the future of modding. A ton of posts on that thread already beat up the subject pretty well. I confess I prefer as little to do with Steam as possible and have never touched their 'workshop'. I get my mods from Nexus, but the implications are disturbing - even for private hobby modders. Naturally, Steam is taking a big cut of all proceeds. Does this mean that for future games, the CK/CS will only be made available to 'for profit' Steam workshoppers? This seems to validate the concerns many of us have about Steam and their ability to control what you thought you paid for.
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Replies
SubRosa |
Apr 25 2015, 06:14 PM
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Ancient
Joined: 14-March 10
From: Between The Worlds
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In the past Bethesda refused mods to be sold because they had no way of controlling the money themselves. All the money would have gone to the modder, and none of it to them. But after moving their sole distribution to Steam (even if you bought a physical disc in a store, you still have to use Steam to install and play the game), they finally realized that they have a means of controlling sales, so they make the money, rather than the modder. So of course now they are tapping the previously untouched revenue stream of mods.
Skyrim is not the first game to have mods for pay. Valve started it with their own in-house created games like Team Fortress. The fact that they made a lot of money from it is what made Bethesda take notice, and I am sure a lot other game companies. Even though it is far from a new game anymore, Skyrim still has a huge number of players and a gigantic mod library. So it was an obvious choice for the first non-Valve game to go the paid-mod route. It is a win for Valve, and a win for Bethesda. Only the modders and players lose.
It is also worth noting that Bethesda does not call all of its own shots. Just like Bioware does not. They are just a subsidiary of a much larger investment corporation. That corporation has lost a lot of money lately. So they want to make it back any way possible, and selling mods is just one way the mega-corporation can do that.
And yes, Valve opening up the bandwidth for Skyrim mods a little while ago was definitely laying the groundwork for the paid modding. It was a necessary first step for the business. What I can see as a next step is to make Fallout 4's Geck (that is what they call the Fallout creation kit), to be more integrated with Steam, so that you cannot save your mods locally. Instead they will probably only allow saving to Steam's servers. That way Valve and Bethesda will have complete control of the mods, and cut out sites like the Nexus. They will claim it is a good thing, because online storage will protect your mod from being lost due to things like hard drive failures.
Will Valve start charging a monthly fee for Steam use? That I kind of doubt, since even single mmo games with monthly subscriptions usually fail. Very few people are willing to pay $20 a month just to play a game. So I don't believe people would pay Steam a monthly subscription. Instead they would just pirate all their games and cut Steam completely out of the picture. People who do not want to deal with Steam now - when it is free (albeit the internet connection is not) - have been playing pirated copies of Skyrim since the first day it came out.
Of course whether Valve is smart enough to understand that is another matter entirely though. Companies are remarkably stupid when it comes to DRM schemes and piracy. They never seem to realize that DRM does absolutely nothing to deter piracy. Instead it costs them more money to buy the DRM scheme in the first place, makes their game more unstable and sometimes unplayable, and insults paying customers by treating them like criminals. In the end DRM schemes promote piracy, because for many people it is literally the only way they can play the game because the DRM prevents them from doing it legally. Even the remarkable success of DRM-free distributors like Gog.com and donation sites like Kickstarter have not clued most of the gaming industry into the fact that you do not need such absolute control to make money. People will still buy games even when they could pirate them. Simply because we are honest, and want to reward the developer, and insure they continue to make good games.
This post has been edited by SubRosa: Apr 25 2015, 06:41 PM
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mALX |
Apr 25 2015, 07:30 PM
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Ancient
Joined: 14-March 10
From: Cyrodiil, the Wastelands, and BFE TN
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ Apr 25 2015, 01:14 PM) In the past Bethesda refused mods to be sold because they had no way of controlling the money themselves. All the money would have gone to the modder, and none of it to them. But after moving their sole distribution to Steam (even if you bought a physical disc in a store, you still have to use Steam to install and play the game), they finally realized that they have a means of controlling sales, so they make the money, rather than the modder. So of course now they are tapping the previously untouched revenue stream of mods.
Skyrim is not the first game to have mods for pay. Valve started it with their own in-house created games like Team Fortress. The fact that they made a lot of money from it is what made Bethesda take notice, and I am sure a lot other game companies. Even though it is far from a new game anymore, Skyrim still has a huge number of players and a gigantic mod library. So it was an obvious choice for the first non-Valve game to go the paid-mod route. It is a win for Valve, and a win for Bethesda. Only the modders and players lose.
It is also worth noting that Bethesda does not call all of its own shots. Just like Bioware does not. They are just a subsidiary of a much larger investment corporation. That corporation has lost a lot of money lately. So they want to make it back any way possible, and selling mods is just one way the mega-corporation can do that.
And yes, Valve opening up the bandwidth for Skyrim mods a little while ago was definitely laying the groundwork for the paid modding. It was a necessary first step for the business. What I can see as a next step is to make Fallout 4's Geck (that is what they call the Fallout creation kit), to be more integrated with Steam, so that you cannot save your mods locally. Instead they will probably only allow saving to Steam's servers. That way Valve and Bethesda will have complete control of the mods, and cut out sites like the Nexus. They will claim it is a good thing, because online storage will protect your mod from being lost due to things like hard drive failures.
Will Valve start charging a monthly fee for Steam use? That I kind of doubt, since even single mmo games with monthly subscriptions usually fail. Very few people are willing to pay $20 a month just to play a game. So I don't believe people would pay Steam a monthly subscription. Instead they would just pirate all their games and cut Steam completely out of the picture. People who do not want to deal with Steam now - when it is free (albeit the internet connection is not) - have been playing pirated copies of Skyrim since the first day it came out.
Of course whether Valve is smart enough to understand that is another matter entirely though. Companies are remarkably stupid when it comes to DRM schemes and piracy. They never seem to realize that DRM does absolutely nothing to deter piracy. Instead it costs them more money to buy the DRM scheme in the first place, makes their game more unstable and sometimes unplayable, and insults paying customers by treating them like criminals. In the end DRM schemes promote piracy, because for many people it is literally the only way they can play the game because the DRM prevents them from doing it legally. Even the remarkable success of DRM-free distributors like Gog.com and donation sites like Kickstarter have not clued most of the gaming industry into the fact that you do not need such absolute control to make money. People will still buy games even when they could pirate them. Simply because we are honest, and want to reward the developer, and insure they continue to make good games.
This is the most informative fact filled post I've read yet on this whole situation; and the thought of them controlling the Geck right from the start - I never would have thought of that, but now that you've said it - oh yeah, I do see that happening. And I've been afraid all along that Nexus is about to crash and burn because Valve-Steam will sweep it out of the way. Hugely important post you made here, SubRosa. Huge.
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Posts in this topic
Acadian Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods Apr 24 2015, 03:45 AM ghastley As I already mentioned on the Mods thread at Beths... Apr 24 2015, 03:55 AM mirocu This is why I never support Steam or anything like... Apr 24 2015, 09:29 AM mALX
This is why I never support Steam or anything lik... Apr 24 2015, 09:06 PM Grits Well, the other shoe has dropped. This explains so... Apr 24 2015, 10:30 AM mirocu Yeah, this is yet another terrible idea in the lin... Apr 24 2015, 10:42 AM Grits There are some amusing responses from modders alre... Apr 24 2015, 11:51 AM mirocu :rofl: :rofl: Apr 24 2015, 11:52 AM Grits Here is a statement from isoku. Apr 24 2015, 01:10 PM Acadian I'll never pay for a mod any more than I would... Apr 24 2015, 02:35 PM SubRosa I first read about this a month ago, and it still ... Apr 24 2015, 02:40 PM ghastley
My concern is being accused of plagarism when it ... Apr 24 2015, 04:37 PM mALX
I first read about this a month ago, and it still... Apr 24 2015, 11:57 PM mirocu "Joining mirocu playing Pokemon"?
I d... Apr 24 2015, 04:19 PM Grits Aand the Nexus is down. I think I'll play some... Apr 24 2015, 04:21 PM SubRosa
Aand the Nexus is down.
Gee, the only major sit... Apr 24 2015, 04:36 PM mirocu You know, Grits... You should make us pay for read... Apr 24 2015, 04:30 PM Grits Ha ha, I’m sure I’m not… Hang on, someone’s at the... Apr 24 2015, 04:40 PM ghastley The Dark One makes a good point about plagiarism i... Apr 24 2015, 04:50 PM Grits
The Dark One makes a good point about plagiarism ... Apr 24 2015, 04:57 PM mirocu We can no longer trust any post made by the member... Apr 24 2015, 04:50 PM SubRosa And one of my predictions I made in my first post ... Apr 24 2015, 04:51 PM Acadian I wonder who the real culprit here is?
Mod user... Apr 24 2015, 05:13 PM ghastley
Steam. Have they become enough of an 800 pound... Apr 24 2015, 05:39 PM haute ecole rider Like SubRosa, I first read about this over on the ... Apr 24 2015, 05:34 PM mirocu It is a tough debate, I admit. But if we go there,... Apr 24 2015, 05:41 PM Acadian
It is a tough debate, I admit. But if we go there... Apr 24 2015, 06:04 PM SubRosa
[quote name='ghastley' post='238195' date='Apr 24... Apr 24 2015, 06:03 PM ghastley Would double your current rate make a difference? ... Apr 24 2015, 06:06 PM Acadian
Would double your current rate make a difference?... Apr 24 2015, 06:11 PM Grits Here's some news from Chesko, I think. Wow. Li... Apr 24 2015, 07:40 PM SubRosa
Here's some news from Chesko, I think. Wow. [... Apr 24 2015, 09:46 PM Callidus Thorn
Here's some news from Chesko, I think. Wow. L... Apr 24 2015, 10:01 PM mALX
Here's some news from Chesko, I think. Wow. L... Apr 25 2015, 01:56 AM Acadian Yes. . . :-/o Turning a hobby into profits tend... Apr 24 2015, 07:51 PM haute ecole rider I agree, Acadian, that I wouldn't write for pr... Apr 24 2015, 09:04 PM Acadian Goodness! The BethSoft SkyMods forum is going... Apr 25 2015, 01:32 AM mirocu
Goodness! The BethSoft SkyMods forum is goin... Apr 25 2015, 07:38 AM mALX Okay, I read Chesko's last post. This guy ki... Apr 25 2015, 02:36 AM SubRosa Here is one of the latest responses to the situati... Apr 25 2015, 02:53 AM mALX
Here is one of the latest responses to the situat... Apr 25 2015, 03:10 AM gpstr I haven't read anything on this thread yet bec... Apr 25 2015, 03:15 AM mALX
I haven't read anything on this thread yet be... Apr 25 2015, 03:50 AM SubRosa So far I have read a couple articles on Forbes abo... Apr 25 2015, 05:11 AM Grits The tone is considerably calmer this morning, or a... Apr 25 2015, 01:29 PM Acadian Grits, thanks for linking to Emma's post else ... Apr 25 2015, 02:22 PM SubRosa What Emma says about sharing brings me back to my ... Apr 25 2015, 04:09 PM mALX *
One thing no one has mentioned on any of these ... Apr 25 2015, 06:00 PM Acadian I'm scratching my head here still at the lack ... Apr 25 2015, 06:42 PM Callidus Thorn
I'm scratching my head here still at the lack... Apr 25 2015, 10:32 PM gpstr I closely watched, and commented on, Skyrim's ... Apr 25 2015, 09:13 PM mirocu
I closely watched, and commented on, Skyrim's... Apr 25 2015, 09:43 PM SubRosa My only real beef against Steam is the DRM they fo... Apr 25 2015, 10:41 PM Renee Renee: *munches popcorn* Apr 26 2015, 01:17 AM gpstr
[quote name='Acadian' post='238304' date='Apr 25 ... Apr 26 2015, 02:03 AM mirocu
Sorry, but every single person who continues to d... Apr 26 2015, 07:28 AM Acadian Well, I downloaded a handful of Nexus mods on my ... Apr 26 2015, 04:03 PM Grits That’s a good idea.
Since I had already removed ... Apr 26 2015, 05:28 PM SubRosa I have been doing the opposite. I am deleting mods... Apr 26 2015, 05:52 PM mALX
I have been doing the opposite. I am deleting mod... Apr 26 2015, 09:09 PM gpstr
When we are all tired from hashing and reacting, ... Apr 27 2015, 01:09 AM Acadian Heh, I've never navigated beyond the one Steam... Apr 26 2015, 06:31 PM Grits I saw a comment from Mardoxx and thought it was a ... Apr 26 2015, 08:06 PM SubRosa That is disappointing. It looks like I will be del... Apr 26 2015, 08:45 PM mirocu But is there really a reason to remove mods you al... Apr 26 2015, 09:11 PM SubRosa The utter contempt I feel for these people preclud... Apr 26 2015, 09:13 PM mALX
The utter contempt I feel for these people preclu... Apr 26 2015, 11:01 PM mALX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-U1HZrV_ZI...eatu... Apr 27 2015, 12:08 AM SubRosa
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-U1HZrV_ZI... Apr 27 2015, 01:11 AM mALX
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-U1HZrV_ZI... Apr 27 2015, 02:30 AM Acadian I'm more upset with Steam than anyone else. S... Apr 27 2015, 12:19 AM mALX Here is the list of mods behind the paywall:
htt... Apr 27 2015, 01:08 AM Acadian MALX, thanks for posting that list of paymods. Pr... Apr 27 2015, 03:23 AM mALX
MALX, thanks for posting that list of paymods. P... Apr 27 2015, 04:24 AM Acadian I believe this is good news indeed:
http://stea... Apr 28 2015, 12:57 AM haute ecole rider Now that's interesting! I honestly did not... Apr 28 2015, 01:00 AM SubRosa That is good news.
h.e.r. Forbes ran this intere... Apr 28 2015, 01:26 AM mALX
That is good news.
h.e.r. Forbes ran this inter... Apr 28 2015, 05:03 AM mALX WOOO HOOOOO !!!! It is OVAH ... Apr 28 2015, 01:31 AM gpstr I guarantee that it's not over.
Now Beth and ... Apr 28 2015, 01:42 AM mirocu
I guarantee that it's not over.
Now Beth and... Apr 28 2015, 07:24 AM Callidus Thorn
I guarantee that it's not over.
Now Beth and... Apr 28 2015, 08:44 AM Grits “We’ve done this because it’s clear we didn’t unde... Apr 28 2015, 01:48 AM SubRosa
Wait, I thought FO4 was going to be FOO, FallOut ... Apr 28 2015, 02:38 AM mALX
Wait, I thought FO4 was going to be FOO, FallOut... Apr 28 2015, 03:36 AM mALX Bethesda Quote:
Some are concerned that this who... Apr 28 2015, 01:52 AM ghastley Time to necro this thread, with the announcement o... Jun 12 2017, 05:57 PM mALX
Time to necro this thread, with the announcement ... Jun 12 2017, 08:48 PM TheCheshireKhajiit Well, they have said they won't be replacing t... Jun 13 2017, 03:23 AM mALX
Well, they have said they won't be replacing ... Jun 13 2017, 05:42 AM TheCheshireKhajiit
Ditto. I never felt like they truly gave up the ... Jun 13 2017, 06:35 AM ghastley My big worry is that they'll start restricting... Jun 13 2017, 01:32 PM mALX
My big worry is that they'll start restrictin... Jun 13 2017, 01:53 PM TheCheshireKhajiit
My big worry is that they'll start restrictin... Jun 13 2017, 03:28 PM ghastley On the other hand, maybe it will be the end of sil... Jun 13 2017, 01:58 PM ghastley I can't remember where I read it now, but some... Aug 31 2017, 02:59 PM mALX
I can't remember where I read it now, but som... Aug 31 2017, 05:23 PM ghastley I don't see this as Steam-related in any way. ... Aug 31 2017, 06:03 PM
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