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> Vampires: why does your character drink blood?
Elisabeth Hollow
post Mar 4 2013, 04:09 AM
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Snuggles randomly decided to start howling XD


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Lady Saga
post Mar 4 2013, 02:00 PM
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QUOTE(King Of Beasts @ Mar 3 2013, 09:53 PM) *


Because




You missed what I wrote earlier, but that's okay.

I disabled Dawnguard for my vampire's game, which means. This did not initially happen while she was in Whiterun, but it did happen later on when she made it to Dawnstar.

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Darkness Eternal
post Mar 6 2013, 02:49 AM
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So I am writing some new chapters in my vampire story and I came to a sort of an issue here. One of my characters is a Daughter of Coldharbour. I wanted to write about the nature of the ritual in detail but I am totally stuck here.

Serana mentioned it was degrading, but what exactly happened other than her being profaned by Molag? We know that it is vampiric tradition for the cult to surrender their females to Molag Bal to become pureblooded the same way the progenitor was.

But, what gets me is that Molag Bal likes to see his followers strong. And not just in the manner of being subjugated. I wonder. Did Serana ever to anything degrading herself?

The ritual is more or less like how Lamae was turned. This is from the lore book.

QUOTE
Tamriel was still young, and filled with danger and wondrous magick when Bal walked in the aspect of a man and took a virgin, Lamae Beolfag, from the Nedic Peoples. Savage and loveless, Bal profaned her body, and her screams became the Shrieking Winds, which still haunt certain winding fjords of Skyrim. Shedding a lone droplet of blood on her brow, Bal left Nirn, having sown his wrath.


So, Molag raped her. Okay.

Then there is this:

QUOTE
Violated and comatose, Lamae was found by nomads, and cared for. A fortnight hence, the nomad wyrd-woman enshrouded Lamae in pall for she had passed into death. In their way, the nomads built a bonfire to immolate the husk. That night, Lamae rose from her funeral pyre, and set upon the coven, still aflame. She ripped the throats of the women, ate the eyes of the children, and raped their men as cruelly as Bal had ravished her.


Lamae died from her injuries. Survived and emeged as a pureblooded vampire, and then went on a bloody rampage. But what Serana says makes me wonder. Is there more to the ritual than being a Daedric Lord's toy?

QUOTE
The first vampire came from Molag Bal. She was not a willing subject, but she was still the first. Molag Bal is a powerful Daedric Lord, and his will is made reality. For those willing to subjugate themselves, he will still bestow the gift, but they must be powerful in their own right before earning his trust.


Her dialogue on marriage is something for concern. She refuses to marry because she can't accept the gods blessing because of how she lived and what she had done. Her status as a worshiper of Molag Bal and one of the cult members may be one of the reasons, and of course, her need to feed and survive. But I do wonder if she also had to ravage a few men, devour the eyes of infants and rip out the throats of women to prove that she is also "powerful in her own right". So maybe she had to be dominated and then had to dominate. Hard. As mentioned before, perhaps a lot of emotional, physical and evensexual pain involved which explains her whole family being the way they are. But that's another story altogether. ohmy.gif

What do you guys think?

This post has been edited by Darkness Eternal: Mar 6 2013, 03:04 AM


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Elisabeth Hollow
post Mar 6 2013, 03:24 AM
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QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Mar 5 2013, 07:49 PM) *

Her dialogue on marriage is something for concern. She refuses to marry because she can't accept the gods blessing because of how she lived and what she had done. Her status as a worshiper of Molag Bal and one of the cult members may be one of the reasons, and of course, her need to feed and survive. But I do wonder if she also had to ravage a few men, devour the eyes of infants and rip out the throats of women to prove that she is also "powerful in her own right". So maybe she had to be dominated and then had to dominate. Hard. As mentioned before, perhaps a lot of emotional, physical and evensexual pain involved which explains her whole family being the way they are. But that's another story altogether. ohmy.gif

What do you guys think?

I think it's entirely possible she was required to assert her (or what Molag-bal sees as) strength in order to be found worthy of becoming a pureblood.

A Daedric Lord like Molag-bal isn't going to take a follower that shows mercy, because he himself shows none.

The fun thing about the lore is that where we have questions, we are allowed to fill in the blanks. I would find it acceptable to see that Serena DID have to...do those things... in order to gain Molag-Bal's favor. I find it believable.


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Lady Saga
post Mar 7 2013, 06:20 PM
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QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Mar 5 2013, 08:49 PM) *

What do you guys think?


I think you are definitely onto something, and your theories are the best I've ever read, for sure.

Like Miss Hollow seems to suggest, the whole Serana thing is open for interpretation, but I haven't really thought of any of this on my own. I'm not so good with lore and theorizing about it.


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SubRosa
post Mar 7 2013, 09:25 PM
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QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Mar 5 2013, 08:49 PM) *

Lamae died from her injuries. Survived and emeged as a pureblooded vampire, and then went on a bloody rampage. But what Serana says makes me wonder. Is there more to the ritual than being a Daedric Lord's toy?

I think it is the all too common cycle of how the abused often grows up to become an abuser themself. The trauma associated with their abuse so damages their ability to express love or other tender emotions, that when they do try to do so instead it is warped into an act of violence.

I am reminded of the descent of Kore into the Underworld, where she is raped by Hades. There are many differing versions of the story, and ways to cast the characters. The one that feels most valid to me is that Hades was the odd man out among his brothers, Zeus and Poseidon. After the three defeated their dad and split up rulership of the Cosmos between them, Hades really got the raw end of the deal. He gets stuck in the Underworld tending the dead. Where his brothers get lavish temples built to them, and people lining up to worship them, no one wants anything to do with Hades. He never gets even one temple built to him anywhere. He is a pariah among gods.

Spending eternity in a cave with a bunch of ghosts, he has no experience in forming relationships with others, or in dealing with the feelings he has for them. So when he does try to pull of what he doubtlessly imagines/hopes will be a romantic seduction of the pure virgin girl who captured his heart, instead he kidnaps and rapes her. Because all he knows about expressing himself is through acts of violence. Afterward he makes Kore - now Persephone - his queen, and gives her equal rulership over the dead. So Hades himself really is not the thoughtless brute he might appear to be. Unlike his brother Zeus who raped and dumped just about every other woman in the world. Hades wants to be a better man, but he has never had the opportunity to learn how.


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Destri Melarg
post Mar 7 2013, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Mar 5 2013, 05:49 PM) *

What do you guys think?

As our resident expert in all things vampiric, I think you already know the answer that you are looking for. For the ritual to be true to what Lamae experienced you must have both the initial subjugation, and the subsequent domination.

I havent played Dawnguard yet, but I have read and seen enough to know that Seranas reasons for refusing marriage hint at a certain degree of shame even as she tells the player that her vampirism is a gift. If she sees her own rape as a gift bestowed upon her, then what exactly does she feel shame about? Its not her status as a worshipper of Molag Bal, nor is it her vampiric condition. I would submit that she fell to her base desires and fulfilled her own bloodlust in a matter befitting her progenitor, yet she retains enough of her humanity to be shamed by her own actions.

QUOTE(SubRosa @ Mar 7 2013, 12:25 PM) *

Hades wants to be a better man, but he has never had the opportunity to learn how.

Is this your way of hinting that maybe Molag Bal just wants to be loved? wink.gif


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Darkness Eternal
post Feb 27 2015, 03:31 AM
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By the necomantic powers I hereby revive this thread from the dead! 💀💀

So we now why your characters drink blood. I want to know if your vampire characters has any idea, knowledge or understanding or doubts about his or her afterlife? In the ES afterlives vary. Nightingales sell their souls for Nocturnal, Redguards to the Far Shores, Khajiits to some sugar-dune realm, lycanthropes to the Hunting Grounds, Nords to Sovgarde, mad people to Sheogoraths Looney Nut-House... And so on so forth. Though race doesn't guarantee a certain afterlife, the general belief is this. There's also the Dreamsleeve.

I've often wondered what the price was for immortality. For a vampire who made a pact with Molag Bal, whose realm is the enslavement of mortals and who's Prince holds no contrition to who ventures there, willingly or no. Surely, I've asked myself, a Daughter of Coldharbour would go to such place for performing and undergoing that horrific ritual as the name itself implies. Also what of men who sacrificed a large amount of people for such "gift", like Lord Harkon, who became a vampire by killing and sacrificing them for Molag Bal. can't imagine the horrors they're facing in Oblivion since their souls were hijacked. That is a huge moral no-no. Not counting the centuries he had to feed and kill people.... Reading an Ingame book, my question was answered. Here a quote from it:


"Other species of vampires are the result of pacts and bargains with Molag Bal, who answers promises of immortality and power with an eternity of damnation. Molag Bal seeds chaos and strife, spreading discord by corrupting soul after soul. His forces are legion; his patience is limitless; his ultimate goal is the domination and enslavement of all living things."

So, Harkon is in trouble. His cell mate, Molag Bal. This is for vampires who made bargains with him. Now what about turned and infected ones? By accident? Do they get a different fate or are they, like lycanthropes, doomed for eternity whether they like it or not? What about vampieres who forsake Bal and sided with Lamae Beolfag who has them defile a sacred symbol of the Daedric Lord as a requirement for membership? And ultimately, what does your character believe he or she will go?


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And yet I am, and live—like vapours tossed.
I long for scenes where man hath never trod
A place where woman never smiled or wept
There to abide with my Creator, God,
And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept,
Untroubling and untroubled where I lie
The grass below—above the vaulted sky.”
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Acadian
post Feb 27 2015, 04:04 AM
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Vampiric afterlife? Not sure, except that Buffy's generally happy to help them get to wherever that is. biggrin.gif

Seriously, I'd like to imagine it can vary. In Oblivion, five of Azura's followers killed the ancient vampire Dratik and his kin holed up in Gutted Mine. In the process though, all five were infected. Azura sealed them up in the mine until her Slayer came along to give them the freedom of death. Buffy would like to think that somehow their spirits reside eternally with Azura, just as the five candles Azura placed above her shrine in their honor burn eternally.


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mALX
post Feb 27 2015, 04:54 AM
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QUOTE(Acadian @ Feb 26 2015, 10:04 PM) *

Vampiric afterlife? Not sure, except that Buffy's generally happy to help them get to wherever that is. biggrin.gif

Seriously, I'd like to imagine it can vary. In Oblivion, five of Azura's followers killed the ancient vampire Dratik and his kin holed up in Gutted Mine. In the process though, all five were infected. Azura sealed them up in the mine until her Slayer came along to give them the freedom of death. Buffy would like to think that somehow their spirits reside eternally with Azura, just as the five candles Azura placed above her shrine in their honor burn eternally.



I have to agree with BoBo Acadian - I think the variables in the beginning and duration of their vampirism would effect where and how their eternity would be spent.




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Destri Melarg
post Feb 27 2015, 08:56 AM
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QUOTE(Acadian @ Feb 26 2015, 07:04 PM) *

Vampiric afterlife? Not sure, except that Buffy's generally happy to help them get to wherever that is. biggrin.gif

Seriously, I'd like to imagine it can vary. In Oblivion, five of Azura's followers killed the ancient vampire Dratik and his kin holed up in Gutted Mine. In the process though, all five were infected. Azura sealed them up in the mine until her Slayer came along to give them the freedom of death. Buffy would like to think that somehow their spirits reside eternally with Azura, just as the five candles Azura placed above her shrine in their honor burn eternally.


Interesting thought. Azura had the power to transform an entire race of elves and all of their progeny through the ages. It is not unreasonable to think that he/she/it could reclaim five souls from the fires of Coldharbour.

My opinion (and I stress that it is my opinion) on the subject comes down on the opposite end of the spectrum. I feel that a vampire gives up his/her mortality through the act of transformation... voluntarily or otherwise. Once transformed the vampire is already undead, quite literally a reanimated corpse. Afterlife for such an individual begins the moment he/she awakens to his/her new form and does not end even when the vampire is claimed by Oblivion.

I admit to the glaring flaw in that argument which is the fact that even stage four vampirism can be cured. But lets face it, Bethesda has never really been rock solid in the logic department. The lore surrounding the Nightingales, for example, makes no sense whatsoever. Why must I be bound to protect a sepulcher that is absent a corpse? The idea that I must protect the entrance to the Evergloam falls apart when one realizes just how many mortals have made the journey to steal Nocturnals sacred trinkets through the ages. Seriously, the place must have a revolving door by now!


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ghastley
post Feb 27 2015, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Feb 27 2015, 02:56 AM) *


But lets face it, Bethesda has never really been rock solid in the logic department. The lore surrounding the Nightingales, for example, makes no sense whatsoever. Why must I be bound to protect a sepulcher that is absent a corpse? The idea that I must protect the entrance to the Evergloam falls apart when one realizes just how many mortals have made the journey to steal Nocturnals sacred trinkets through the ages. Seriously, the place must have a revolving door by now!


My take is that Nocturnal is the patron of Thieves, so she wants her stuff stolen. It has to be by the right kind of thieves, though, so she needs an appropriate level of guard to test the ones who attempt it. The Cowl, the Skeleton Key, the Bow of Shadows and the Eye have all had their characteristics altered over the ages to suit the thief she's trying to lure in. Sometimes they've been given away as rewards, sometimes they've had to be stolen directly, and the case of the cowl and the curse in Oblivion, and the Skeleton Key in Skyrim, Nocturnal's plans haven't always worked, at least initially.


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Acadian
post Feb 27 2015, 03:04 PM
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I love the last four posts! Such a wonderful example of how Buffy and mALX think with their heart, as Destri and ghastley think with their head. I pay attention to such things, for Buffy and I struggle with it - my inclination is to favor an analytical approach to most situations, but Buffy will have nothing to do with that in favor of the emotional approach every time.


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ghastley
post Feb 27 2015, 03:23 PM
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Getting back to the question: for vampires, it will depend on how they got it. If they traded their allegiance for the extended life, they get what they bargained for. If they were infected, no change - Nords to Sovngarde, if still worthy after being a vampire, of course.

A lich, and they're still around in Skyrim as the dragon priests, doesn't happen accidentally, so they've made their choice (whatever that was).

And you need to throw in a bit of Daedric mischief into the formula. All of them will steal from the others when they get the chance, so a vampire is not necessarily tied to Molag Bal, if another Daedric Prince sees an opportunity. I could imagine a vampire becoming a Nightingale, and being Nocturnal's after death.


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Grits
post Feb 27 2015, 04:06 PM
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Ive always thought that a vampire is bound to the daedric prince regardless of how they got infected, so their afterlife will be in that princes realm. The Skyrim ritual to cure vampirism requires a filled black soul gem. I take that to be an exchange for their own soul which is marked for Coldharbor.

Daedric trickery is a vampires way out. In Oblivion we saw Azura preserve her accidentally vampire followers in the cave until she could claim them at their deaths when her new champion came through, or at least thats how I took the eternal candles at her shrine. I may be mistaken but I think that in Skyrim becoming a werewolf by drinking Aelas blood cures your vampirism, which I take as Hircine gleefully snatching your soul from Molag Bals clutches. A werewolf can escape Hircine by becoming a vampire via the pureblooded Serana, but of course then theyre on Molag Bals roster.

My Skyrim vampire characters have all believed that their afterlife would be in Coldharbor. The reluctant vampires have either cured themselves with the ritual or lived isolated in a blood-starved state as long as possible to avoid it. The willing ones looked forward to remaining themselves in Molag Bals realm rather than dying mortal and taking the chance of maybe entering a realm of Aetherius with their consciousness intact or losing their individuality entirely in the Dreamsleeve.

I like the uncertainty. It gives my characters a lot to think about.


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SubRosa
post Feb 27 2015, 07:19 PM
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I have always been in the same camp as Grits. Vampires are Molag Bal's bitches. The same with Werewolves and Hircine. That is why lycanthropy and vampirism are curses. Whether you were infected willingly or not, in the end you are nothing but one more victim of a Daedric Prince. That is one of the reasons neither really appealed to me in the ES-verse. I prefer to play characters who find their own power within themselves, not those who final destination is to be the sock-puppet of an unearthly force.

Acadian brings up a good point about Azura's followers in Gutted Mine. I also had the impression that she took the souls of her five followers after their final slayage. That can be chalked up to Destri's sage pointing out of Bethesda's unfailing ability to remain inconsistent with their own lore. Or it could be that once you put your soul up on the market - either by choice or unfortunate circumstance - it is thence forth an item to bartered or stolen by whatever divine force gets their mitts upon it. Whereby Azura could wrest the souls of those five away from Molag, or Hircine could swipe a vampire's soul after Aela puts the bite upon a fanger. It would certainly be a very fertile ground for a quest or story: The Daedra and Daniel Websternor.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Feb 27 2015, 07:20 PM


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Darkness Eternal
post Feb 27 2015, 10:37 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Feb 27 2015, 03:23 PM) *

Getting back to the question: for vampires, it will depend on how they got it. If they traded their allegiance for the extended life, they get what they bargained for. If they were infected, no change - Nords to Sovngarde, if still worthy after being a vampire, of course.

A lich, and they're still around in Skyrim as the dragon priests, doesn't happen accidentally, so they've made their choice (whatever that was).

And you need to throw in a bit of Daedric mischief into the formula. All of them will steal from the others when they get the chance, so a vampire is not necessarily tied to Molag Bal, if another Daedric Prince sees an opportunity. I could imagine a vampire becoming a Nightingale, and being Nocturnal's after death.

I've thought about this initially. That their soul's final place is somehow chosen by how they live. For the undead it would seem to be the case. The ones who did horrific things to obtain the power, would sell their soul and have an eternity of torment in Oblivion . . .but I thought about Kodlak and other reluctant lycanthropes and what Grits said below.

QUOTE(Grits @ Feb 27 2015, 04:06 PM) *

Ive always thought that a vampire is bound to the daedric prince regardless of how they got infected, so their afterlife will be in that princes realm. The Skyrim ritual to cure vampirism requires a filled black soul gem. I take that to be an exchange for their own soul which is marked for Coldharbor.

Daedric trickery is a vampires way out. In Oblivion we saw Azura preserve her accidentally vampire followers in the cave until she could claim them at their deaths when her new champion came through, or at least thats how I took the eternal candles at her shrine. I may be mistaken but I think that in Skyrim becoming a werewolf by drinking Aelas blood cures your vampirism, which I take as Hircine gleefully snatching your soul from Molag Bals clutches. A werewolf can escape Hircine by becoming a vampire via the pureblooded Serana, but of course then theyre on Molag Bals roster.

My Skyrim vampire characters have all believed that their afterlife would be in Coldharbor. The reluctant vampires have either cured themselves with the ritual or lived isolated in a blood-starved state as long as possible to avoid it. The willing ones looked forward to remaining themselves in Molag Bals realm rather than dying mortal and taking the chance of maybe entering a realm of Aetherius with their consciousness intact or losing their individuality entirely in the Dreamsleeve.

I like the uncertainty. It gives my characters a lot to think about.

This is a good answer. I gave all of them thought but this one. judging by what happens in the game, seems logically(and unfortunately) what happens. Each Daedric Prince, depending on the ties the mortal has, would have dibs on the person with such condition.

I see. Nice about your characters. But I ask: what does an afterlife in Coldharbour mean for some of them? We're talking about eternity here. Time has no meaning.

As for my two purebloods, they worship Molag Bal through and through and owe their existence to him. But they also revere Lamae, their blood-matron. In the end, they have knowledge, often unspoken, that their soul will go to Coldharbour. Hell, my character Raven is a Daughter of Coldharbour. The name already suggests her final destination.

Power has had a veil over her mind that she doesn't see -- or tries not to see--that her eternity will be nothing but torment and torture in many unimaginable ways. She studied ancient history. She knows the stories of Molag Bal making an attempt to pull Nirn into Coldharbour. She's read accounts of what his followers go through should they fail him and what some of his honored servants await. It has been a matter of thought that goes through her head even centuries passing. But the more power she acquires, the more blinded she is.

I'd say Molag Bal offers unimaginable power but he's the Daedric Lord that sees everything as a potential toy for torture. It doesn't matter who. He's far from being a benevolent prince.

QUOTE(SubRosa @ Feb 27 2015, 07:19 PM) *

I have always been in the same camp as Grits. Vampires are Molag Bal's bitches. The same with Werewolves and Hircine. That is why lycanthropy and vampirism are curses. Whether you were infected willingly or not, in the end you are nothing but one more victim of a Daedric Prince. That is one of the reasons neither really appealed to me in the ES-verse. I prefer to play characters who find their own power within themselves, not those who final destination is to be the sock-puppet of an unearthly force.

Acadian brings up a good point about Azura's followers in Gutted Mine. I also had the impression that she took the souls of her five followers after their final slayage. That can be chalked up to Destri's sage pointing out of Bethesda's unfailing ability to remain inconsistent with their own lore. Or it could be that once you put your soul up on the market - either by choice or unfortunate circumstance - it is thence forth an item to bartered or stolen by whatever divine force gets their mitts upon it. Whereby Azura could wrest the souls of those five away from Molag, or Hircine could swipe a vampire's soul after Aela puts the bite upon a fanger. It would certainly be a very fertile ground for a quest or story: The Daedra and Daniel Websternor.


In my honest opinion that'd be saying that most people who serve Daedric Princes are essentially their bitches. I daresay Azura, too, who imprisoned her servants in a cavern, isn't above being considered such thing; A Daedric Prince who does what he/she/it wills. Considering her being a good Daedra is a dangerous conclusion and delusion to make. She has her moments of rage and pure spite in the past and malice, too. Don't get me started on the Dark Elves... I can't imagine what she'll do to her followers if they piss her off.

What I'm saying is . . . probably anyone who serves a Daedric Prince, including Nightingales, will be a Daedric Prince's plaything. But to call this a curse would be unfair, at least for some. For vampires, I'd be inclined to agree that they're going to be Molag Bal's victims. Daughters of Coldharbour already have to give themselves up to be defiled and assaulted sexually just to become pureblooded vampires and I should say that this happens to those who survive. As Serana says, this only applies to the strong. Meaning that some people couldn't handle it and die in the process. But Azura might be a rewarding prince to serve: her past shows of ire can't compare to Molag Bal's never ending nature of enslavement and domination and rape who'll likely torture his servants in eternal in scathing rings or worst . . .

Time and time we see Hircine actually bestowing blessings on werewolves and lycanthropes, people who as we know might have trafficked with the prince or have been bitten or born with the condition. The announcement and the beginning of the Bloodmoon Hircine takes his servants--his Hounds- to hunt and blesses them with additional abilities. One such ability is the Hunter's Wind, a power that heals the hunter completely from the most troubling of wounds. Another is to summon a bonewolf as a companion to aid the person in their travels. The Savior's Hide cuirass is given to worthy hunters and said by Hircine to protect them for the world's grievances. Molag Bal blesses vampires for being purely offensive. He wouldn't grant them such things if they weren't raping virgins, murdering old men, butchering children and corrupting innocent souls and might I remind you about those scathing rings! ohmy.gif

Serving Hircine is different. Glenmoril Witches revere him and many of them are young women who begin during adolescence. They perform sacrifices, yes, but often of their own people and voluntarily. They worship his natural side and nature in general, and as I've mentioned before twice here somewhere(I can't remember, hehe) they are reclusive and reject civilization but they make certain to enforce the laws of nature. Hircine doesn't really go about torturing them as they respect and uphold his more natural side while Reachmen prefer Hircine's vicious side. But we're going into moral beliefs, aren't we? What I'm trying to say is that Hircine's servants get better treatment than Molag Bal's servants does.

Granted, Sinding did not get good treatment when Hircine put a hunt on his head. But he stole Hircine's ring . . . and that was unsporting. In the past the ring had to be claimed by killing the wearer for whatever reason. But stealing it wasn't sporting and thus Hircine put a curse on it. There are similarities, however, between the two Princes. Hircine connects with Molag Bal in the same nature of a cure; a soul is required.

On afterlives . . . Coldharbour is a reflection of Molag Bal; cold, brutal and violent. Dark and full of pain and suffering, can be attributed to our concept of Hell. The Hunting Grounds is a huge geographical realm made up of forest and grasslands and canyons that can be compared to Native American's concept of "The Happy Hunting Grounds" where prey are endless and game is always available. I won't defend the notion that some werewolves aren't hunted there, but most hunt in a pack with Hircine and during the day werebears do as well.

Kodlak mentioned that the Hunting Grounds can be a paradise for some, they want nothing more to chase prey with Hircine forever and roam the wilderness as beasts. Some would believe brawling with Nords and drinking mead for eternity is a better way and each has their own opinion on the matter.

That being said, considering werewolves are canine, they are essentially Hircine's bitches tongue.gif but they get better treatment and return to Nirn once every era to hunt. There are shades to Hircine and some werewolves in lore are benevolent, seeking to focus their hunger at animals and use hunting as a "rewarding pastime" and a way to worship Hircine without harming mortals. And since they're hunting, and as long as they're hunting, Hircine wouldn't hold it against them since they accept what they are. Hunters.

Their afterlife might be on of endless hunting but if they're animals and they want nothing more? Give em what they want.

I'd take the Hunting Grounds any day than to be bent over some flaming-hot pole wielded by a cackling Molag Bal who'd seek to enslave the world and oppress people because its his nature.

My two cents!


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And yet I am, and live—like vapours tossed.
I long for scenes where man hath never trod
A place where woman never smiled or wept
There to abide with my Creator, God,
And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept,
Untroubling and untroubled where I lie
The grass below—above the vaulted sky.”
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SubRosa
post Feb 27 2015, 11:23 PM
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QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Feb 27 2015, 04:37 PM) *

In my honest opinion that'd be saying that most people who serve Daedric Princes are essentially their bitches. I daresay Azura, too, who imprisoned her servants in a cavern, isn't above being considered such thing; A Daedric Prince who does what he/she/it wills. Considering her being a good Daedra is a dangerous conclusion and delusion to make. She has her moments of rage and pure spite in the past and malice, too. Don't get me started on the Dark Elves... I can't imagine what she'll do to her followers if they piss her off.

I agree. While Azura is perhaps the most benevolent of the Daedra, that does really take much, considering the rest. Being her plaything for eternity is still being an object owned by another being. Granted, better her than Molag Bal though.


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Grits
post Feb 27 2015, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Feb 27 2015, 04:37 PM) *

I see. Nice about your characters. But I ask: what does an afterlife in Coldharbour mean for some of them? We're talking about eternity here. Time has no meaning.

Heres where I think how a person lives comes into play. My vampires who cured themselves or lived blood-starved would surely be or have been on the receiving end of the eternal hot pokers, since they did nothing in life to gain favor with their lord. They knew this and dreaded it enough to go through the ritual to escape their fate (filling a black soul gem was an act of almost unimaginable evil to the Bosmer Nivoniel, so in a way she damned herself with her cure) or to live in a state of voluntary exile and madness to postpone it.

The ones who live enthusiastically (if sometimes briefly) as vampires fully expect to be on the dominating team in Coldharbor, since they believe that Molag loves them. In his own way, lol. Im sure that my vampire lord Selwyn who died like an idiot by running into a spike trap got a big surprise when Bal bent him over on his arrival in Coldharbor. Id guess Selwyn would be among the tormented, probably scrambling to torture some of his fellow sufferers in order to improve his status and move up the ladder. My vampire pirate Captain Zanimal is ready for whatever he finds in Bals realm. In his unlife the Zanimal doesnt seek power, he is power. So hell probably have more fun in Coldharbor than he expects.



Added: A side note with apologies to Renee since this has nothing to do with drinking blood, I find it interesting that the Aedric realms dont always offer a reward for good living. Its said that a Nord is not judged by how she lives but by how she dies (A Dream of Sovngarde). So the vilest Nord in Mundus could get to meet Tsun if they die bravely in battle, but the noblest hero gets a soul shower in the Dreamsleeve if they die in their sleep. Of course thats not necessarily true, but it does explain some things about Nords.



This post has been edited by Grits: Feb 27 2015, 11:44 PM


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Destri Melarg
post Feb 28 2015, 12:19 AM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Feb 27 2015, 04:55 AM) *

My take is that Nocturnal is the patron of Thieves, so she wants her stuff stolen. It has to be by the right kind of thieves, though, so she needs an appropriate level of guard to test the ones who attempt it. The Cowl, the Skeleton Key, the Bow of Shadows and the Eye have all had their characteristics altered over the ages to suit the thief she's trying to lure in. Sometimes they've been given away as rewards, sometimes they've had to be stolen directly, and the case of the cowl and the curse in Oblivion, and the Skeleton Key in Skyrim, Nocturnal's plans haven't always worked, at least initially.

An elegant solution. I have heard it described in this way before. The problem arises when you remember that the Nightingales are only indigenous to Skyrim. Weebum-Na and Bejeen encountered no such sentries when they liberated the Eye in Oblivion. And there is mention of witches but there are no Nightingales present in Purloined Shadows, which is the only documented case we have of the theft of an artifact from Nocturnal. I concede that Shadows is probably a work of fiction, and one could argue that the theft of the Eye was an elaborate plan on Nocturnal's part to, as you say, lure the right kind of thief in. It still seems like Bethesda doesn't have a clear sense of what they want to do with the Daedric Princes.

QUOTE(Grits @ Feb 27 2015, 07:06 AM) *

Ive always thought that a vampire is bound to the daedric prince regardless of how they got infected, so their afterlife will be in that princes realm. The Skyrim ritual to cure vampirism requires a filled black soul gem. I take that to be an exchange for their own soul which is marked for Coldharbor.

I love this! I wonder what will happen should the mortal come to realize that he/she is bartering with currency they don't own. You 'soul' ostensibly 'belongs' to your creator. In effect, you're spending daddy's coin!

QUOTE(SubRosa @ Feb 27 2015, 10:19 AM) *

That is why lycanthropy and vampirism are curses.

I humbly disagree. Lycanthropy/Sanies Lupinus and Sanguinare Vampiris/Porphyric Hemophilia are diseases, and both are treatable within three days (except for in Skyrim where you are forced to simply accept your lycanthropy).


Sorry again, Renee. Your thread seems to have gone off the rails a bit! embarrased.gif


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