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> (Idea) boats+havock
Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas
post Jun 4 2005, 07:31 PM
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(originaly posted on official ES forums by me)
[quote]Well Chances are they will have some sort of way, probably (or maby) through scripting, to put force in a direction (because of havock), as it would have numerouse applications in the game.

So Boats Float, right?

If you've played HL2, you see that certain things float, and move if force is aplied to one side, but in a more fluid, sliding motion than if they were on the ground (just like in real life).

So the whole idea is to simply script somthing so that it aplies force to part of a boat, and let havock do the rest. This would probably only work for small boats, nothing larger than a longboat.

Still, it's anough to give wannabe pirates like myself a hell of a time.[/quote]

OK, I might actualy do this one, I just gotta learn how to apply force in a game enviroment. I have one question:

Is it most likely to be s cript comand or somthing else? I probably will do it ifit's a script comand, and might get creative if it's somthing else (sheep powered water wheel anyone?) But I think I might just to this, as long as I use stock ship modles.

What do you guys think?


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Chumbaniya
post Jun 4 2005, 07:52 PM
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[quote=Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas](originaly posted on official ES forums by me)
[quote]Well Chances are they will have some sort of way, probably (or maby) through scripting, to put force in a direction (because of havock), as it would have numerouse applications in the game.

So Boats Float, right?

If you've played HL2, you see that certain things float, and move if force is aplied to one side, but in a more fluid, sliding motion than if they were on the ground (just like in real life).

So the whole idea is to simply script somthing so that it aplies force to part of a boat, and let havock do the rest. This would probably only work for small boats, nothing larger than a longboat.

Still, it's anough to give wannabe pirates like myself a hell of a time.[/quote]

OK, I might actualy do this one, I just gotta learn how to apply force in a game enviroment. I have one question:

Is it most likely to be s cript comand or somthing else? I probably will do it ifit's a script comand, and might get creative if it's somthing else (sheep powered water wheel anyone?) But I think I might just to this, as long as I use stock ship modles.

What do you guys think?[/quote]

Sounds like a good idea. Working boats would be a great addition.


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9of9
post Jun 4 2005, 07:54 PM
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One possible problem relating to Havok (which sort of annoys me after spending considerable time with Garry's Mod) is that while you have all the physics and buoyancy, in HL2 at least, the player always seems to correspond to slightly different laws of physics and therefore lack any sort of friction whatsoever. Basically, anything you put under yourself and move tends to slide out from under your feet, unless you get pushed by something. So you might have to make the character rig themselves to the deck if you want to move the ship. Pretty much like Fishing Academy, in retrospect.

That said, I'll be the first to use the scripting in your mod to create a floating airship tongue.gif


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Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas
post Jun 4 2005, 08:15 PM
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[quote=9of9]One possible problem relating to Havok (which sort of annoys me after spending considerable time with Garry's Mod) is that while you have all the physics and buoyancy, in HL2 at least, the player always seems to correspond to slightly different laws of physics and therefore lack any sort of friction whatsoever. Basically, anything you put under yourself and move tends to slide out from under your feet, unless you get pushed by something. So you might have to make the character rig themselves to the deck if you want to move the ship. Pretty much like Fishing Academy, in retrospect.

That said, I'll be the first to use the scripting in your mod to create a floating airship tongue.gif[/quote]

Errr...How would you do that do that? I was thinking a ship in the water...Though a sheep catipult would be fun to do.


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9of9
post Jun 4 2005, 11:41 PM
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Well, once you figure out how to make it so that the player can make a self propelled, steerable ship that can swim in the water and - most importantly - how to get forces to act on it at will (propulsion, steering etc.) its only a matter of tweaking to get one to stay up in the air. Ideally, some sort of negative weight value would give us something floaty, but otherwise something could be figured out to make it fly (like maybe a script that changes the upthrust values in accordance with altitude... by placing some sort of upward force towards the top of the balloon and a self adjusting altitude script you could probably make the ballon bob up and down around the desired height).

The good thing about these ships would be that, unlike the Fishing Academy mod, you could also place items on them (and maybe people, if the whole frictionless thing is somehow resolved) without them sliding off when the object moves due to Havok (as well as having them be thrown overboard when a particularly large wave hits the ship!)

I want sea... with waves :shocked:


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Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas
post Jun 5 2005, 03:37 AM
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[quote=9of9]Well, once you figure out how to make it so that the player can make a self propelled, steerable ship that can swim in the water and - most importantly - how to get forces to act on it at will (propulsion, steering etc.) its only a matter of tweaking to get one to stay up in the air. Ideally, some sort of negative weight value would give us something floaty, but otherwise something could be figured out to make it fly (like maybe a script that changes the upthrust values in accordance with altitude... by placing some sort of upward force towards the top of the balloon and a self adjusting altitude script you could probably make the ballon bob up and down around the desired height).

The good thing about these ships would be that, unlike the Fishing Academy mod, you could also place items on them (and maybe people, if the whole frictionless thing is somehow resolved) without them sliding off when the object moves due to Havok (as well as having them be thrown overboard when a particularly large wave hits the ship!)

I want sea... with waves :shocked:[/quote]

Well I have kindof a messy answer to the friction bit:

doors and rooms

Sure, everything might get jumbled, but imagine having a magical scrib that re- organizes everything with a simple comand! (just have scrib with the right dialoug options and a script that re-positions the object)

The player could stay in an invisible case.

Also we might have "Sticky" comand...Somthing like Gary's mod for HL2 (just downloaded it, load of fun, can you say combign chorusline?? what about floating chain of The G Man?)

Other thing (probably easier) is to just have a door linking to an interior cell, with random slight wave movement. This wouldn't feal anywhere as good, but it would do the trick neater.


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9of9
post Jun 5 2005, 11:46 AM
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Nah, you don't need the scrib - as I said, the items are fine, as long as Havok holds up they should do precisely what they're meant to do and if they get thrown overbaord, that's fine tongue.gif

The main problem is the player and NPCs (after all, it would be nice to have a crew), I suppose it is possible to put an inviso box around the player or just make them stick to the ship (like in Fishing Academy) but it just sort of takes away.. it would be nice to walk about the deck of the ship whilst you set it to sail straight ahead tongue.gif But if there's no other way, then... well, inviso box it is.

The interior is a whole other cookie.


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Konji
post Jun 5 2005, 12:33 PM
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Best not to have an interior, just a small ishing boat thats just a curvd peice o' wud.


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Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas
post Jun 5 2005, 12:41 PM
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[quote=9of9]Nah, you don't need the scrib - as I said, the items are fine, as long as Havok holds up they should do precisely what they're meant to do and if they get thrown overbaord, that's fine tongue.gif

The main problem is the player and NPCs (after all, it would be nice to have a crew), I suppose it is possible to put an inviso box around the player or just make them stick to the ship (like in Fishing Academy) but it just sort of takes away.. it would be nice to walk about the deck of the ship whilst you set it to sail straight ahead tongue.gif But if there's no other way, then... well, inviso box it is.

The interior is a whole other cookie.[/quote]

I guess that would work. Maby oblivion will be the first game to actualy get player friction right, remember, they're modifying Havock....course maby not.

[quote]Best not to have an interior, just a small ishing boat thats just a curvd peice o' wud.[/quote]

I know, Thats what I was thinking originaly, nothing larger than a longboat.


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9of9
post Jun 5 2005, 01:04 PM
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[quote=Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas]

[quote]Best not to have an interior, just a small ishing boat thats just a curvd peice o' wud.[/quote]

I know, Thats what I was thinking originaly, nothing larger than a longboat.[/quote]

We can start off with a small fishing boat or yacht and work up from there. Once something works, it shouldn't be that hard to get something much larger to work wink.gif But for experimenting, it probably would be easier to use something small I suppose.

Interiors are the least hard thing to do anyway, so that at least shouldn't be a problem...


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Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas
post Jun 5 2005, 01:27 PM
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[quote=9of9][quote=Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas]

[quote]Best not to have an interior, just a small ishing boat thats just a curvd peice o' wud.[/quote]

I know, Thats what I was thinking originaly, nothing larger than a longboat.[/quote]

We can start off with a small fishing boat or yacht and work up from there. Once something works, it shouldn't be that hard to get something much larger to work wink.gif But for experimenting, it probably would be easier to use something small I suppose.

Interiors are the least hard thing to do anyway, so that at least shouldn't be a problem...[/quote]

Well the big problem is we don't know if boats will displace the water. Most boats with interiors sink nicely into the water, and their interior is in their hull.

I think a stock rowboat would be easiest to start with, it sits shallowely in the water, the back of it has a larger surface area, and it's pretty stable.


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9of9
post Jun 5 2005, 02:34 PM
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Oh, it doesn't have to displace - I mean the interior only needs to be an interior cell tongue.gif so the only thing you need is a working door on the boat tongue.gif A 'real' interior... yes, that would be hard!


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Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas
post Jun 5 2005, 03:19 PM
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[quote=9of9]Oh, it doesn't have to displace - I mean the interior only needs to be an interior cell tongue.gif so the only thing you need is a working door on the boat tongue.gif A 'real' interior... yes, that would be hard![/quote]

Well the problem with that is getting the thing to move and sway. I mean I supose you could, but it would feal detached from the outside of the boat.


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jonajosa
post Jun 5 2005, 08:33 PM
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In the Video Interview he said that we could board boats...What he means by that i have no idea but if he means we can actually ride a boat... then i think that problem is already solved.
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9of9
post Jun 5 2005, 08:41 PM
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[quote=Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas][quote=9of9]Oh, it doesn't have to displace - I mean the interior only needs to be an interior cell tongue.gif so the only thing you need is a working door on the boat tongue.gif A 'real' interior... yes, that would be hard![/quote]

Well the problem with that is getting the thing to move and sway. I mean I supose you could, but it would feal detached from the outside of the boat.[/quote]

True... I suppose if the entire interior is one object (like in Morrowind) it would alright - you could make it sway a bit and then the clutter would follow (which was the main reason against it, in Morrowind) although you'd still have problems with making all the larger, non-clutter, objects follow the swaying - like doors, hammocks etc.

Its usually best done by simply making the player's view sway instead (a camera trick, basically), but chances are the scripting system won't let us go quite that far.

jonajosa: Could well be! Although I did take him to mean boarding much in the same way as you could in Morrowind, I suppose they might well the boats actually float properly in the water (and perhaps even be steerable) in Oblivion just as they are smile.gif

In which case it would be just the airship that would pose the problem (unless they have one of those too... tongue.gif)


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Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas
post Jun 5 2005, 08:48 PM
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[quote=9of9][quote=Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas][quote=9of9]Oh, it doesn't have to displace - I mean the interior only needs to be an interior cell tongue.gif so the only thing you need is a working door on the boat tongue.gif A 'real' interior... yes, that would be hard![/quote]

Well the problem with that is getting the thing to move and sway. I mean I supose you could, but it would feal detached from the outside of the boat.[/quote]

True... I suppose if the entire interior is one object (like in Morrowind) it would alright - you could make it sway a bit and then the clutter would follow (which was the main reason against it, in Morrowind) although you'd still have problems with making all the larger, non-clutter, objects follow the swaying - like doors, hammocks etc.

Its usually best done by simply making the player's view sway instead (a camera trick, basically), but chances are the scripting system won't let us go quite that far.

jonajosa: Could well be! Although I did take him to mean boarding much in the same way as you could in Morrowind, I suppose they might well the boats actually float properly in the water (and perhaps even be steerable) in Oblivion just as they are smile.gif

In which case it would be just the airship that would pose the problem (unless they have one of those too... tongue.gif)[/quote]

Well I guess it realy dosn't have to be as immersive as if we were actualy making the game, we see all kinds of stand-in style things in mods, and they usualy work.


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DoomedOne
post Jun 6 2005, 01:57 AM
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I'll be the fiurst to create a joinable pirate crew.


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Screaming_Dude_In_Vegas
post Jun 8 2005, 10:52 PM
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[quote=DoomedOne]I'll be the fiurst to create a joinable pirate crew.[/quote]

Cool Idea, River Pirates or classic Pirates? I personaly would do river pirates, as there are more rivers on cyrodil than ocean front, and Open longboats will be much easier to do than galleons, schooners, and/or frigates.


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Channler
post Jun 23 2005, 09:52 PM
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[quote=9of9]
In which case it would be just the airship that would pose the problem (unless they have one of those too... tongue.gif)[/quote]

Hmm.. We just need to get on deciphering(SP) the Dwemer (OMG I cant spell) airship plans now


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Konji
post Jun 23 2005, 10:51 PM
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What's wrong with Dwemer?


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