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> Furniture and animations, How they work
ghastley
post Jan 14 2019, 04:45 PM
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I'm at the point in The Diablo mod where I need to put Greta in a Pillory where she can be rescued. I can't use the shackles for this as they go against a wall, and her developing wings are either hidden, or clip through the wall behind her. Fortunately, the work has already been done, and I just have to extract the one piece from a huge animation resource pack.

The method of creating new furniture items, and connecting up the entry/loop/exit animations is a topic that's worth documenting, as I haven't found a decent one anywhere else. This thread will hold my notes as I find out all about it.

The "sit" animation isn't a standard one, so a mod using it will need FNIS to install the extra behaviour data and animations. At least that's become a standard, and users are fairly familiar with the process.

I may also include Idle Markers, which work in a similar fashion, but without a static item, and explain how Animation Objects work. These are items that appear only when the animation is performed, such as musical instruments, or the broom. Lots of things will be common between all these.


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mALX
post Jan 14 2019, 07:46 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jan 14 2019, 10:45 AM) *

I'm at the point in The Diablo mod where I need to put Greta in a Pillory where she can be rescued. I can't use the shackles for this as they go against a wall, and her developing wings are either hidden, or clip through the wall behind her. Fortunately, the work has already been done, and I just have to extract the one piece from a huge animation resource pack.

The method of creating new furniture items, and connecting up the entry/loop/exit animations is a topic that's worth documenting, as I haven't found a decent one anywhere else. This thread will hold my notes as I find out all about it.

The "sit" animation isn't a standard one, so a mod using it will need FNIS to install the extra behaviour data and animations. At least that's become a standard, and users are fairly familiar with the process.

I may also include Idle Markers, which work in a similar fashion, but without a static item, and explain how Animation Objects work. These are items that appear only when the animation is performed, such as musical instruments, or the broom. Lots of things will be common between all these.


Oh, when I saw the "animated furniture" I thought you were talking about the animation of statics (like that "jumping table" in that Oblivion haunted house years ago; or "jumping spider" that one Modder made for my Skyrim mod! I couldn't figure out how it was done because the script was on Papyrus; and couldn't get hold of the jumping table script; only the table itself's NIF.

On the "Animated Objects," I think they attach an activator to the Misc. Item; but there has to be a script for the animated item to suddenly appear in the NPC's hand, or at least that is my guess. I had trouble figuring it out for my mods; so I just copied it from something Bethesda had in game.

Oh, and what I always wanted to do (and tried to in Skyrim) was to take the load screen monsters and use them as combat dummies = but when the NPC hit them have them either jump or growl, etc. (you know, just to make the combat practice more exciting).






This post has been edited by mALX: Jan 14 2019, 07:51 PM


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ghastley
post Jan 15 2019, 03:52 PM
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Animated objects are yet another topic. Some things are animated so that they're in motion on their own, such as swaying trees, or windmills. Others are activators that are triggered by the player (or NPC's) and then do something, such as levers. And then, of course, the activator may trigger another object.

And there are so many hybrids that have multiple aspects. A Grindwheel is furniture, with an animation for the player to perform when it's used, and it also triggers the tempering process dialog.

I'll just be confining myself to the "player uses this, which forces an animation (or sequence of them)" case. Idle markers are invisible, and furniture is visible, but they are otherwise similar.

An "Animation Object" is not one of these, but it's used as part of the animation, like a broom in the sweeping animation. It's not placed in the world, and only appears when the animation starts. And they get used together. The sitting idles often include a mug, or piece of bread, as an animation object, while the chair is the furniture that triggers that animation.

The other thing that's not well-documented is how the placed NPC is connected to the furniture they use. A shackled prisoner is associated with their shackles in the CK, to force the usage as soon as they're loaded.


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mALX
post Jan 15 2019, 10:51 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jan 15 2019, 09:52 AM) *

Animated objects are yet another topic. Some things are animated so that they're in motion on their own, such as swaying trees, or windmills. Others are activators that are triggered by the player (or NPC's) and then do something, such as levers. And then, of course, the activator may trigger another object.

And there are so many hybrids that have multiple aspects. A Grindwheel is furniture, with an animation for the player to perform when it's used, and it also triggers the tempering process dialog.

I'll just be confining myself to the "player uses this, which forces an animation (or sequence of them)" case. Idle markers are invisible, and furniture is visible, but they are otherwise similar.

An "Animation Object" is not one of these, but it's used as part of the animation, like a broom in the sweeping animation. It's not placed in the world, and only appears when the animation starts. And they get used together. The sitting idles often include a mug, or piece of bread, as an animation object, while the chair is the furniture that triggers that animation.

The other thing that's not well-documented is how the placed NPC is connected to the furniture they use. A shackled prisoner is associated with their shackles in the CK, to force the usage as soon as they're loaded.


On the animated object appearing in the NPC's hand when they "use" that idle marker (for example: sweeping) = doesn't there have to be a linked reference between the animated object and the activator or idle marker that tells it which to use? (because I'm sure the motion is the same for rake and sweep; and the idle markers look identical; so there has to be something that tells the game to use rake at one and broom at the other.

I think I took out every "Animated Object in Oblivion's Item View List and looked at where they were used; then researched where the references were to it. Can't remember now; but Oblivion Nexus had a mod that caused an NPC to wash clothes and iron; (don't remember the name of it now, some kind of idle animations thing) = but I tore apart that mod to find out how the guy got the NPC to do the wash, etc. (I wanted a washerwoman in the basement of my personal Lucky Mudcrab, lol).









This post has been edited by mALX: Jan 15 2019, 10:53 PM


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ghastley
post Jan 16 2019, 03:16 PM
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I did some more research in the CK last night, and the linkages are beginning to make sense. Idle Markers have a direct link to their (single) animation, but furniture is much more complex. The furniture type links up to the animation behaviour tree (it's a chair, so you sit, etc.) and then the tree has keyword (or other) tests to determine the details, such as which sides of the chair you can enter from (with a different animation for each).

Installing animations with FNIS is another part of this, and I'll need to document the linkage there, too.


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mALX
post Jan 16 2019, 04:41 PM
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This guy explains the use of those animations and keywords really well:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPbxisHdlz8




If you look through his vids, he has some really advanced tricks, too.






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ghastley
post Jan 17 2019, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE(mALX @ Jan 16 2019, 10:41 AM) *

This guy explains the use of those animations and keywords really well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPbxisHdlz8

If you look through his vids, he has some really advanced tricks, too.

The Fallout 4 editor is unfortunately different from the Skyrim one for furniture. The animations don't appear in the dialog at all, so I need to describe stuff that's way more hidden.

I've had success with my mods, so I have some examples to work with. The Dragon Club has dancer and audience markers that work nicely, and now I have a pillory in the Diablo Succubus one. A bit of work on the screenshots to cover up the boobies, and I can start to write it all up.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Jan 17 2019, 04:33 PM


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mALX
post Jan 19 2019, 02:43 AM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jan 17 2019, 10:30 AM) *

QUOTE(mALX @ Jan 16 2019, 10:41 AM) *

This guy explains the use of those animations and keywords really well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPbxisHdlz8

If you look through his vids, he has some really advanced tricks, too.

The Fallout 4 editor is unfortunately different from the Skyrim one for furniture. The animations don't appear in the dialog at all, so I need to describe stuff that's way more hidden.

I've had success with my mods, so I have some examples to work with. The Dragon Club has dancer and audience markers that work nicely, and now I have a pillory in the Diablo Succubus one. A bit of work on the screenshots to cover up the boobies, and I can start to write it all up.



BOLD: rollinglaugh.gif





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ghastley
post Jan 21 2019, 02:37 PM
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Well, I thought I had it all working nicely. There's a "Succubus Factory" in the last part of the dungeon I'm building where the mad scientist failed necromancer is working Clavicus Vile's evil process of turning the victims into succubi. Part of that is grafting on the wings, which requires restraint, at most stages. I have one woman hanging by her wrists as her wing sprout, and a few succubi in stocks and pillories being punished for not learning their lessons. All of those work properly, with the NPC aligning correctly with the apparatus.

The one that's not working is the table. She's supposed to be bent over the edge of the table, with her ankles tied to the legs, and her wrists bound across to the other side. However, she consistently ends up about a foot into the top, instead of at the edge. Testing another copy with the player gets the right result, but the linked object method of setting the pose fails.

I have more work to do before I start telling others how to do this.


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mALX
post Jan 21 2019, 09:40 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jan 21 2019, 08:37 AM) *

Well, I thought I had it all working nicely. There's a "Succubus Factory" in the last part of the dungeon I'm building where the mad scientist failed necromancer is working Clavicus Vile's evil process of turning the victims into succubi. Part of that is grafting on the wings, which requires restraint, at most stages. I have one woman hanging by her wrists as her wing sprout, and a few succubi in stocks and pillories being punished for not learning their lessons. All of those work properly, with the NPC aligning correctly with the apparatus.

The one that's not working is the table. She's supposed to be bent over the edge of the table, with her ankles tied to the legs, and her wrists bound across to the other side. However, she consistently ends up about a foot into the top, instead of at the edge. Testing another copy with the player gets the right result, but the linked object method of setting the pose fails.

I have more work to do before I start telling others how to do this.



Oooh, this is really interesting! I saw an Oblivion mod on Nexus once that used all sorts of (torture devices) so when you found the secret dungeon you came across several NPC's being held prisoner and (supposedly tortured in there; though all you really saw was them posing on the torture devices and tables).

I actually used some of his ideas on my own dungeon basement in Skyrim where (Darkness Eternal's two vampire children from his story on here: Draken and Raven) were kidnapping female NPC's and holding them hostage to act as "Mommy's" = the AI package was to have the NPC's move from their jail type cell to the torture tables; and there were numerous bodies buried there that were numbered "Mommies" that failed to survive.

And yeah, there was problems getting them to the right point on the tables. You had to edit the animation and move the static in the "Edit Base" to get it right; and sometimes it still didn't want to function right as if there was some collision on that part of the tables that kept it from doing right.




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ghastley
post Jan 28 2019, 03:13 PM
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Well, there are two ways to connect an NPC to furniture. The cheap and nasty way is simply to give the NPC a Linked ref which is their furniture. However if the player leaves the room and comes back, that way doesn't stick. This was the initial way I linked them up, and it also has the positioning issue.

The preferred method is to give them a "Sit Chair" package, all such furniture being special kinds of chair, which they'll do every time they evaluate it, so it covers re-entering the cell. A further nuance is that the target of the package can be "linked ref", if you choose. That allows one package to be applied to multiple NPC's. There can still be some sloppiness in aligning the NPC and the furniture, but that appears to be a game limitation.

So right now, I'm writing down the various steps of the whole process, and determining the best order to do things. Some steps require others to have already been done, as you can only select from a list of existing things, while in other cases, the easiest way to create what you need is to select "new" from a right-click menu, and do it in context. I'll want to explain the alternatives, rather than just write "do it my way", as I'm sure there will be times when each method is preferable.

The "Succubus Factory" now has NPC's in various stages of development (meaning I needed several sizes of wings and boobies), in appropriate restraints. That includes one who hasn't yet got her wings installed, tied down the table for that process to begin. There are wing statics on the nearby table, along with knives, bloody rags etc.

I need to find a good outfit for the necromancer/surgeon who's doing the wing jobs. I want something a bit better than the usual necro robe, preferably with a priestly look, as the Diablo character he's associated with is Archbishop Lazarus. I may rework the Dragonborn Temple Priests garb with a re-texture and a few other tweaks.


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mALX
post Jan 28 2019, 05:18 PM
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*

The animation packages in Skyrim didn't work as well as the ones in Oblivion did. In Oblivion; NPC's could go through loading screens and still easily keep up with their AI packages; you just had to get a little firmer with them (like using the "Must Find" and targeting an X Marker near the chair you want them to sit at; then giving them an eat package for 2 hours targeting that (named) chair; (or sleep package for 8 hours and targeting their specific named bed; etc). The NPC's in the Lucky Mudcrab were like clockwork on their AI packages; but it took forcing them to their beds and chairs this way to do it.

I had trouble in Skyrim with the NPC's not being able to follow their AI packages no matter how firm I got with them. I think I ended up just getting them to the right spot and then using a short ranged Idle Package with keywords; then using idle markers to get them to sandbox there. (example: bar-tending covered several animations including them wiping the counters with a towel, sweeping, etc).

You don't have as much control in Skyrim as you did in Oblivion; but they can do more things while sandboxing and it does look more natural that way.

Your laboratory sounds interesting! Will the NPC's on the tables be active and interact-able? Would the Player be releasing them? And if so, would they attack the player or help them?





*

This post has been edited by mALX: Jan 28 2019, 05:33 PM


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ghastley
post Jan 30 2019, 07:24 PM
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First Draft is up

I still need to take some screen shots in both game and CK render window to add to this.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Jan 30 2019, 08:42 PM


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ghastley
post Jan 31 2019, 05:57 PM
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QUOTE(mALX @ Jan 28 2019, 11:18 AM) *

Your laboratory sounds interesting! Will the NPC's on the tables be active and interact-able? Would the Player be releasing them? And if so, would they attack the player or help them?

If you look at the various dialogs, you'll find that you can control a lot of that. You can set a flag that prevents the NPC from using dialog while restrained. Their package can have conditions that will let you release them by changing whatever's being tested.

NPC's attacking players seems to be entirely determined by aggression settings, and there's a way to modify that value (set absolute, or change by an amount) to start it or stop it.


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post Jan 31 2019, 09:44 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jan 30 2019, 01:24 PM) *

First Draft is up

I still need to take some screen shots in both game and CK render window to add to this.


Oh, this is fantastic! I didn't know you were using Fore's and something you said in here might explain why I had trouble with the mod = didn't know I had to rename the idles! Awesome tutorial!

The images remind me of a Lovers Lab mod, lol.





QUOTE(ghastley @ Jan 31 2019, 11:57 AM) *

QUOTE(mALX @ Jan 28 2019, 11:18 AM) *

Your laboratory sounds interesting! Will the NPC's on the tables be active and interact-able? Would the Player be releasing them? And if so, would they attack the player or help them?

If you look at the various dialogs, you'll find that you can control a lot of that. You can set a flag that prevents the NPC from using dialog while restrained. Their package can have conditions that will let you release them by changing whatever's being tested.

NPC's attacking players seems to be entirely determined by aggression settings, and there's a way to modify that value (set absolute, or change by an amount) to start it or stop it.



Yes, but what I was asking was = what will YOU be having happen in your mod? Will the Succubus that are in various stages of transformation (also be in various stages of aggression toward the player if released?)

What I'm asking is what you plan to do with this lab in your mod.





This post has been edited by mALX: Jan 31 2019, 09:34 PM


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ghastley
post Jan 31 2019, 10:18 PM
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Well, the answer is that I haven't decided, but I should at least point out that I have the choice. biggrin.gif

I mentioned the dilemma in the Diablo 1 thread. The principle is that the implanted wings gradually turn the victim, so anyone part-way through the transformation is unpredictable. This gives both sides a reason to keep them restrained. Greta is the quest focus, so she gets released. I have one victim they haven't started work on, so she can be, too. The problem is making sure the player knows the rest are dangerous.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Jan 31 2019, 10:42 PM


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mALX
post Jan 31 2019, 11:07 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Jan 31 2019, 04:18 PM) *

Well, the answer is that I haven't decided, but I should at least point out that I have the choice. biggrin.gif

I mentioned the dilemma in the Diablo 1 thread. The principle is that the implanted wings gradually turn the victim, so anyone part-way through the transformation is unpredictable. This gives both sides a reason to keep them restrained. Greta is the quest focus, so she gets released. I have one victim they haven't started work on, so she can be, too. The problem is making sure the player knows the rest are dangerous.


rollinglaugh.gif Of course you have the choice, it is your mod!

I can't wait to read/hear the story line for Greta and your mod; I always love the background stories for your mods!





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