Fallout76, Um... yeah. Options

[Renee]

I hope you get it, Rader. Or one of us does.



This post has been edited by Renee: Apr 17 2020, 02:49 AM

[TheCheshireKhajiit]

I just can’t imagine it’s better than Fallout4, or even Fallout3 and New Vegas.

[Renee]

I think some of it depends whether you prefer single player or multiplayer games. I myself played ESO a good couple of months for instance, and I prefer the single player games, for sure. When enemies die in SP games for instance, they are done. They don't respawn right back in front of character ten seconds later because I wasn't quick enough to get back out of their "zone." That is my biggest prob with ESO. I could never get that glorious "aftermath" cooldown feeling which I so love in single-player games. If 76 is handles spawning in such a heavy-handed way, yuck. Especially since there are guns in that game.

But then, my favorite part of ESO was meeting other players. So there are positive things as well (in my opinion). For a lot of gamers this is tops. So it all depends.

[RaderOfTheLostArk]

I just can’t imagine it’s better than Fallout4, or even Fallout3 and New Vegas.

Well, it's definitely going to be much different both by virtue of being an MMO and that it's another game made by Bethesda (albeit not by the main Beth studio). I don't think it will entirely be an apples to oranges comparison, but I also think it being an MMO should be kept in mind a lot. I want to give this game a chance once it goes on sale. For all their flaws (and there are many) and their varying quality, BGS has not let me down yet when it comes to enjoying the games they make.

I think some of it depends whether you prefer single player or multiplayer games. I myself played ESO a good couple of months for instance, and I prefer the single player games, for sure. When enemies die in SP games for instance, they are done. They don't respawn right back in front of character ten seconds later because I wasn't quick enough to get back out of their "zone." That is my biggest prob with ESO. I could never get that glorious "aftermath" cooldown feeling which I so love in single-player games. If 76 is handles spawning in such a heavy-handed way, yuck. Especially since there are guns in that game.

But then, my favorite part of ESO was meeting other players. So there are positive things as well (in my opinion). For a lot of gamers this is tops. So it all depends.

Somewhat unfortunately, that's the nature of an MMO. Got to have respawning enemies because of the amount of people running around. It doesn't bother me too much, but it is somewhat of a let down. Some of the things that I don't like about ESO in relation to other TES games are just part of being an MMO (though, of course, not always). But as you touched on, being an MMO has also allowed it to do some cool things that single-player games just aren't capable of doing.



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So here's some of the research I gathered on Fallout 76, or at least from what I understand. Some of this was endemic to the game while some of it is the Wastelanders update.

-It's only 25 players per server world, so it isn't like, say, ESO, where you encounter them all the time.
-The map is 4x bigger than Fallout 4's, so that further decreases the likelihood of running into other players; while the concept of Fallout with friends is also intriguing, I'm more interested in the single-player aspect and I think the loneliness aspect makes more sense for Fallout.
-(Wastelanders update) Human NPCs are back, and they are also involved in the main quest, so that has been changed. It also has a dialogue system more similar to Fallout 3, where your S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stats can also unlock unique dialogue options. Apparently, there will also be several romance options available as well.
-Your S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stats all start at 1 and are increased as you go along.
-If you don't want to PvP at all, there is an option you can toggle off. That way, griefers can't just bother you and you won't accidentally initiate combat if you shoot another player.
-(Wastelanders update) One of the main things about this new update is--surprise!--a conflict between settlers and raiders. The questline does something similar to Fallout 4, where you can do quests for both sides until a certain point of no return.
-Similar to Fallout 4's settlements. You can make a CAMP (not sure if it is an acronym or not). However, since they are public servers and these CAMPs are not in separate world spaces, they are not persistent and will disappear when you log off. It sounds like private servers might enable them to be persistent and stay there even when you log off.
-Speaking of private servers, there are some available for (I think) $100 a year. I'm ambivalent about this. On one hand, a lot of it smacks of being a cash grab (a heavily overused term but can arguably be used here). On the other hand, I imagine these private servers ain't cheap to just hand out. I doubt I'd ever get one, but the option is there.



There's obviously a lot more to it, but I've been typing long enough as it is. I do find the regurgitation by the "Bethesda BAD" crowd to be annoying and more of a gamer circlejerk, but I also try to balance it out and not just sound like a Bethesda apologist. There were definitely some big missteps by Bethesda with this game (although it is not the main Bethesda studio at the head of this project). But I can see a lot of potential with this game. I'm also a sucker for exploration and freedom, which Bethesda delivers in spades. I honestly don't know much about West Virginia's geography and history, and it's a pretty unique setting for a game. I'm tempted to get the game now, but I've also got other games in my backlog, so I can wait for a sale.

[TheCheshireKhajiit]

I think what BGS lost with this whole 76 debacle was trust. The way they behaved from day 1 was simply inexcusable. I won’t say it makes them bad, more like “par for the course”. They aren’t any worse than any other big AAA studio. Perhaps it just stung a bit more because, while they have had some controversies in the past (paid mods, horse armor), they really hadn’t shown themselves to be quite as despicable as companies like EA. Honestly they aren’t even quite there yet. That said, the direction BGS has indicated it intends to travel is troubling, and it’s a direction I cannot and will not support. I am sitting out 76 as it’s a game that I feel is not for me. However, I will definitely be watching the development of Starfield. As far as I’m concerned, this game will tell the tale of BGS’s future. Will they continue down the same path as EA, or will they manage to right the ship and restore the trust that their fans once had in them? Only time will tell, but I’m willing to wait and see.

[RaderOfTheLostArk]

I think what BGS lost with this whole 76 debacle was trust. The way they behaved from day 1 was simply inexcusable. I won’t say it makes them bad, more like “par for the course”. They aren’t any worse than any other big AAA studio. Perhaps it just stung a bit more because, while they have had some controversies in the past (paid mods, horse armor), they really hadn’t shown themselves to be quite as despicable as companies like EA. Honestly they aren’t even quite there yet. That said, the direction BGS has indicated it intends to travel is troubling, and it’s a direction I cannot and will not support. I am sitting out 76 as it’s a game that I feel is not for me. However, I will definitely be watching the development of Starfield. As far as I’m concerned, this game will tell the tale of BGS’s future. Will they continue down the same path as EA, or will they manage to right the ship and restore the trust that their fans once had in them? Only time will tell, but I’m willing to wait and see.

That's a totally fair take. I will say that BGS has concerned me lately as well, and that is part of why I don't think a full-price tag is justified for me yet. We'll see if these issues with BGS are the start of a trend. Hopefully that is not the case.

I'm itching to hear more about Starfield and I wish we could hear something new about it. A Bethesda-style RPG in outer space would be a dream--provided they make a good game, of course.

[Renee]

Somewhat unfortunately, that's the nature of an MMO. Got to have respawning enemies because of the amount of people running around. It doesn't bother me too much,

Are you saying all MMOs are like this? 76 too? (I know 76 is not supposed to be a true MMO, but you know what I'm saying.)

It wouldn't bother me either if it were done in a more realistic way. For instance, if the spawnpoints weren't exactly right in front of the player-character, literally enemies will pop out of thin air in ESO right in front of us. Maybe if these spawnpoints were in some inaccessible location. ESO's enemy spawning is like going back to my Atari days! It's something I couldn't rationalize in any sort of roleplay terms. "Well, they spawn like this due to magic" does not work for me.

/nerdrage

-(Wastelanders update) Human NPCs are back,

Yes, I heard they were going to add them back in.

[RaderOfTheLostArk]

Somewhat unfortunately, that's the nature of an MMO. Got to have respawning enemies because of the amount of people running around. It doesn't bother me too much,

Are you saying all MMOs are like this? 76 too? (I know 76 is not supposed to be a true MMO, but you know what I'm saying.)

It wouldn't bother me either if it were done in a more realistic way. For instance, if the spawnpoints weren't exactly right in front of the player-character, literally enemies will pop out of thin air in ESO right in front of us. Maybe if these spawnpoints were in some inaccessible location. ESO's enemy spawning is like going back to my Atari days! It's something I couldn't rationalize in any sort of roleplay terms. "Well, they spawn like this due to magic" does not work for me.

/nerdrage

I don't know about every MMO, but a lot do. One I played when I was a kid, RuneScape (the old-school one, but not the original one), did the same thing. I imagine Fallout 76 would do something similar. Think about it for a moment. In a singleplayer game, it's easy. You just set enemies to be perma-dead, or at least take a long time in-game to respawn. But in a multiplayer game, you're not the only person running around. Other people are doing the same content and have to level up and loot too. If you didn't have these enemies respawn often, you'd have a lot of frustrated players not getting in on the action. And in ESO, there are a lot of them. You have to enough going around. Unfortunate, but necessary. There are some tweaks here and there, like World Bosses having a longer timer to respawn and some solo dungeon instances (such as specifically group-designated dungeons, where enemies stay down until you come back to the dungeon in a later play session), but generally speaking, you need to have enemies for all the players online. For the most part, you can still think of yourself as the real hero of the game, that the story (or stories) are centered around you--provided you don't think about it too much.

I know you are a hardcore roleplayer. Unfortunately, the nature of MMOs inhibit that to some extent, making some kinds of roleplaying difficult or outright impossible. On the other hand, it allows for other kinds of roleplaying that you simply can't do in a singleplayer game. But MMOs tend to have much more emphasis on looting and leveling. ESO, no matter how hard it tries, simply can't be a so-called "true" Elder Scrolls game. The MMO genre doesn't allow for it.



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Back to Fallout 76, if and when I get it, I kind of want to make a new thread for alliterative adventures a la Boston Bewilderings, etc. Maybe "West Virginia Wayfaring." But I know I'd probably be the only one here playing the game, or at least for some time, so perhaps that isn't appropriate. Well, in any case, it will probably be a while until I get the game anyway.

This post has been edited by RaderOfTheLostArk: Apr 20 2020, 10:38 PM

[SubRosa]

Back to Fallout 76, if and when I get it, I kind of want to make a new thread for alliterative adventures a la Boston Bewilderings, etc. Maybe "West Virginia Wayfaring." But I know I'd probably be the only one here playing the game, or at least for some time, so perhaps that isn't appropriate. Well, in any case, it will probably be a while until I get the game anyway.

I don't see any issue with a Point Pleasant Pleasantries, or Mothman Prophecies, or Radio Quiet Zone topic for the daily doings in Fallout 76.

[TheCheshireKhajiit]

Back to Fallout 76, if and when I get it, I kind of want to make a new thread for alliterative adventures a la Boston Bewilderings, etc. Maybe "West Virginia Wayfaring." But I know I'd probably be the only one here playing the game, or at least for some time, so perhaps that isn't appropriate. Well, in any case, it will probably be a while until I get the game anyway.

Well you know, maybe if we see enough of what you are doing in the game it may change some of our minds about it!

[Renee]

But in a multiplayer game, you're not the only person running around

I understand this. Exactly why I started this segue with my original statement "I think some of it depends whether you prefer single player or multiplayer games. " Those who prefer MP will have no problem with what I see as a huge annoyance. It's just too bad spawning and respawning has to be done in this particular way.

If 76 spawns enemies over and over right in front, I ain't getting it. There's no way I could handle such a game, but with guns instead of hand-weapons / magic. But I will gladly watch others here at Chorrol and see how they handle this.

I know you are a hardcore roleplayer. Unfortunately, the nature of MMOs inhibit that to some extent, making some kinds of roleplaying difficult or outright impossible

I was able to RP all the time though. I wouldn't play the game, otherwise. All it took for me was to simply slow down, take in the environment, listen to what my character's thoughts might be, and so on. All that classic stuff we all used to talk about in the old Beth forums. It's not impossible. I even met a couple other players who were like-minded.

Sorry for going off-track. I'll be quiet, now. Hope you get 76. Or one of us does.

This post has been edited by Renee: Apr 21 2020, 03:22 PM

[RaderOfTheLostArk]

Well you know, maybe if we see enough of what you are doing in the game it may change some of our minds about it!

Aha! I will make a convert out of you yet like a Child of Atom! BASK IN ATOM'S GLORY!

I understand this. Exactly why I started this segue with my original statement "I think some of it depends whether you prefer single player or multiplayer games. " Those who prefer MP will have no problem with what I see as a huge annoyance. It's just too bad spawning and respawning has to be done in this particular way.

If 76 spawns enemies over and over right in front, I ain't getting it. There's no way I could handle such a game, but with guns instead of hand-weapons / magic. But I will gladly watch others here at Chorrol and see how they handle this.

Right. I just wanted to make clear why it's done that way in case it wasn't. It's rather disappointing to me too, though. One of the things I also initially strongly disliked and sometimes hated about the game was just how much level-scaling there was and how almost everything was tied your character's level. With a lot more experience and hindsight, as well as delving into much more of what the game offers (particularly PvP), I understand that it is a "necessary evil" of sorts. Now it doesn't bother me too much...though that's much easier to say when you are a higher level or max level. But I do wish that a lot of quests weren't so level-scaled. Kind of boring when quest enemies are practically always the same levels of difficulty throughout the whole game. That's probably because of the One Tamriel update, which removed level restrictions on entering zones, let you travel to whatever zone you want at any time (save for probably Coldharbor), and implemented wide-ranging enemy-level scaling. I didn't start playing this game until that update. While I ultimately probably prefer the way they do it since that update and it became much more similar to other TES games, I can see some of the downsides to the change as well.

Perhaps respawning enemies won't be so bad in Fallout 76 since there are so few players per game world. But we'll have to see when I get the game.

I was able to RP all the time though. I wouldn't play the game, otherwise. All it took for me was to simply slow down, take in the environment, listen to what my character's thoughts might be, and so on. All that classic stuff we all used to talk about in the old Beth forums. It's not impossible. I even met a couple other players who were like-minded.

Sorry for going off-track. I'll be quiet, now. Hope you get 76. Or one of us does.

If you ever argue with me again, you will regret it! Haha, no worries. That's why I said some kinds of roleplaying were affected. You can still certainly roleplay in ESO. In fact, I've seen many guilds whose core function IS roleplaying. I just meant that the RPing was inherently different in an MMO, that's all.

[Renee]

Yes, I misread what you wrote about roleplaying.

I didn't know ESO features level scaling, but I suppose that in an MMO this is also another feature which is somewhat of a must. The challenge to balance all these different factors in a gameworld packed with thousands must be never-ending.

Back on topic, have you watched any Let's Play videos Rader, or are you maybe going into this blind? I did watch one video a few months ago. It looks gorgeous, of course.

[RaderOfTheLostArk]

Back on topic, have you watched any Let's Play videos Rader, or are you maybe going into this blind? I did watch one video a few months ago. It looks gorgeous, of course.

Now that you mention it, it's probably best that I look up some gameplay videos first. From what I understand, the gameplay itself is a lot like Fallout 4, which is fine by me. I think the gameplay of Fallout 4 (i.e., the feel of combat and running around and shooting) was mostly really good, although obviously there is some room for improvement. Other things like perks, enemy design, etc., is something I'll have to look at for myself some more.

[mALX]

I hope you get it, Rader. Or one of us does.

I'm pretty sure Lizzie has it.

[mALX]

Somewhat unfortunately, that's the nature of an MMO. Got to have respawning enemies because of the amount of people running around. It doesn't bother me too much,

Are you saying all MMOs are like this? 76 too? (I know 76 is not supposed to be a true MMO, but you know what I'm saying.)

It wouldn't bother me either if it were done in a more realistic way. For instance, if the spawnpoints weren't exactly right in front of the player-character, literally enemies will pop out of thin air in ESO right in front of us. Maybe if these spawnpoints were in some inaccessible location. ESO's enemy spawning is like going back to my Atari days! It's something I couldn't rationalize in any sort of roleplay terms. "Well, they spawn like this due to magic" does not work for me.

/nerdrage

If you choose to spawn at a wayshrine; there will be no enemies nearby. If you choose to spawn where you died; you resurrect as a ghost for fifteen seconds. That gives you time to either run to safety or hide somewhere. The enemy doesn't suddenly spawn in front of you; they are just still there from when they killed you.

On 76 = I have to agree with Khajiit and Rader; not even thinking of giving that kind of price on 76. I've noticed on Steam the price of all the Fallout games is much higher than it was when I bought my Steam copies; (I guess to bolster their high "second launching" price of 76). If the price goes way down; I might consider it; but so far I haven't heard enough good about the game to be even tempted.

And again = have to agree with Khajiit and Rader in that I am very concerned about the direction BGS is headed; and don't feel comfortable giving them my money without proof of what I'm getting from them anymore.

Along those lines = I have recently noticed that the new Zenimax Launcher (as of February's Patch 25) is now calling itself "Bethesda.net Launcher" in some of its scripts and files; and that suddenly now when I contact Support via the Zenimax Launcher I am suddenly being directed to a Bethesda.Net site and having to sign in on a Bethesda.net account instead of my ZOS account. What is that all about?

So now...does this mean that this year's "Skyrim" Chapter is just Bethesda re-launching Skyrim for the 100th 7th time?







This post has been edited by mALX: Apr 23 2020, 01:04 AM

[RaderOfTheLostArk]

If you choose to spawn at a wayshrine; there will be no enemies nearby. If you choose to spawn where you died; you resurrect as a ghost for fifteen seconds. That gives you time to either run to safety or hide somewhere. The enemy doesn't suddenly spawn in front of you; they are just still there from when they killed you.

Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying, I believe she is referring to instances in delves and other places where you kill enemies and they sometimes materialize out of nowhere when you have been there for a time. That has happened on many occasions to me as well and it does inevitably break some immersion, even if it is a necessary feature. Her point doesn't have anything to do with whether she dies, but NPCs she kills. Or if there are a bunch of other people in the delve or wherever you are, it might not be NPCs you killed but other players.

Along those lines = I have recently noticed that the new Zenimax Launcher (as of February's Patch 25) is now calling itself "Bethesda.net Launcher" in some of its scripts and files; and that suddenly now when I contact Support via the Zenimax Launcher I am suddenly being directed to a Bethesda.Net site and having to sign in on a Bethesda.net account instead of my ZOS account. What is that all about?

So now...does this mean that this year's "Skyrim" Chapter is just Bethesda re-launching Skyrim for the 100th 7th time?

Todd Howard, you've done it again! You sly dog!

On a serious note, apparently Zenimax support doesn't give a damn about support (for Cyrodiil especially), so hopefully Bethesda actually does something about it? Maybe it is just a consolidation of support resources into one place instead of separated. I don't know.

This post has been edited by RaderOfTheLostArk: Apr 23 2020, 12:48 PM

[Renee]

Correct, I was talking about enemies not staying dead, instead they literally respawn within seconds right in front of the character. If I could mod Elder Scrolls Online, that would be the first thing to change.

If 76 handles respawning enemies in a similar way, there's no way I'd be able to handle this! Because now we're talking about enemies with guns spawning back!

This post has been edited by Renee: Apr 26 2020, 04:45 PM

[RaderOfTheLostArk]

Fallout 76 is on sale through May 21st for 25% off (so $30 currently). But perhaps more importantly, I just discovered it is a free play weekend. As of this post, there is a little over 1.5 days left of the free play, if you want to try it out yourself. I might try it tomorrow.

[Renee]

Awesome! Let us know your impressions. I'll microwave some popcorn for everybody.