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Posted by: SubRosa Nov 22 2015, 03:15 AM

Since it stirred up a few posts worth of talk in the What Are You Playing topic, I thought I would make the Kotor games a thread of their own.

I'll start with some handy tips for playing them on a modern computer. First off getting them to install on a 64 bit OS is probably not likely. But Gog.com has them for $10 each, and their installs will work on Windows 7 (I haven't tried them on my Win 8 tablet, and I don't have Win 10, but I am sure they work on those OSes as well). There are probably some modder-built installers floating around the internets if you still have the old cds as well.

In any case, neither game can do 1920 x 1080 resolution out of the box. But you can get it on each.


The only way I know for Kotor 1 is to use http://www.flawlesswidescreen.org/. You have to start it first, select the Kotor profile, and leave it running. Then start Kotor 1 itself and go to the graphics options to set the resolution there to anything different from what you find it. 1920 x 1080 won't be there the first time you try. But change the resolution to something anyway. Flawless Widescreen is a memory hack, that detects the change in resolutions and then tries to add in the higher resolutions. Exit the game, restart it, and 1920 x 1080 might be there the second time. If not, go for a third time, etc... Sometimes it comes up the second time. Sometimes even after six or seven times it does not. If I go that long I turn off Flawless Widescreen and open it again. Usually then the next time you start Kotor you have the higher resolutions. Sadly, you have to do this every time you play the game.

Okay, I found an update to running Kotor 1 at high resolution. Make a backup copy of your Swkotor.exe file. Download the https://deadlystream.com/files/file/1159-kotor-high-resolution-menus/. Then copy the 3 hires_patcher files to your main Kotor folder. Run the bat file. It will ask you four questions, such as the width, height, etc... that you want. Then go back to the file you downloaded, and navigate to the folder of the screen size you want. They will first be in ratios like 16-9, and so on. Drill down until you find the one you want. Then copy the files over to your Kotor\Override folder. Done! The menus in the game will look really big. But the hud will be visible in gameplay.

Now a year later, I am having problems with even this method. It just is not working anymore, and I do not know why. But what I did find that works is to download the latest version of https://www.flawlesswidescreen.org/. I used the x86 version. Run that and select the Kotor 1 profile. Then start Kotor 1, go to the graphics options, and 1920 x 1080 will be there for you to change to.

You only have to change the graphics options once. But you do have to start Flawless Widescreen every time, before you start Kotor. It is a bit more convenient than the old way of using Flawless Widescreen however.





Kotor 2 has a slightly more complicated fix, but at least you only have to do it once, and then you will always have the high resolution.

Start the game and set it to the highest resolution available, then exit it.

Run the http://www.wsgf.org/article/universal-widescreen-uniws-patcher. Select the Kotor2 profile, tell it where the game is on the computer, and put in the resolution you want (1920 x 1080).

Go to your Kotor 2 folder and open swkotor2.ini file.

Set the following:
Under
[Display Options]
Width=1920
Height=1080

Under
[Graphics Options]
Width=1920
Height=1080

Copy the http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/332-widescreen-ui-fix-for-knights-of-the-old-republic-2-the-sith-lords/ to the Kotor2\Override folder.

Done!


Steam has the revamped version of Kotor 2 done by Aspyr. It has the advantage of high resolutions built in without need of all the work above. But other than that it does not really add anything I personally care about. It is all Steam achievements, Steam cloud saves, controller support, and so on. The native 5k support would be handy for folks like ghastley that use multiple monitors though. But I think that can be done as with a hack (not positive though). I am glad I did not buy it this way, as I got everything I wanted from the Gog version, without the added joy of DRM.



On to mods.
Kotor 1 & 2
http://www.gamewatcher.com/downloads/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-download/kotor-tool-1 - A modding tool that allows you to extract and mod the game's files.

http://www.nexusmods.com/kotor/mods/57 - A savegame editor that allows you to modify all of your stats, and those of your companions. It works on both games. One really cool thing about it is that it allows you to edit your inventory, and modded items will show up in the editor. So you don't need to use the command console to add them within the game.


Kotor 1
http://www.gamewatcher.com/mods/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-mod/lightsaber-choices - When you construct your lightsaber on Dantoine, this mod gives you more options in the choice of your color crystal, what type of saber (standard, short, or double), and lets you create a second one too if you want to dual wield.

http://kotor.gamebanana.com/skins/49166 - changes the look of the jedi robes, based on the Bastila robes. A big improvement over the vanilla look.

http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/category/1-knights-of-the-old-republic/ has a huge amount of Kotor mods. Of course there is a http://www.nexusmods.com/kotor, and http://www.gamewatcher.com/games/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic/mods


Kotor 2
First and foremost is the http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-sith-lords-restored-content-mod-tslrcm, which puts a ton of stuff back into that game that never got used in the release version. I am using it now for the first time, but since I have not gotten far, I cannot say just how much it really changes. It sounds like it adds an awful lot though.

http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/category/2-the-sith-lords/ has a bunch of Kotor 2 mods. The Nexus has a http://www.nexusmods.com/kotor2/ and http://www.gamewatcher.com/games/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-ii-the-sith-lords/mods

Posted by: mALX Nov 22 2015, 05:08 AM

This is Awesome! Your advice in these things is so appreciated! Thank you so much!

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 22 2015, 01:03 PM

I've been meaning to try and install those games on my laptop. I've got a thread bookmarked from a while back with details on how to get the games running on windows vista/7, since I've got the old cd versions.

Then again, I might just treat myself after my birthday and get them off of Gog, just to avoid the hassle. That said, I'm not sure that my laptop will run it too well, since I'm stuck with integrated graphics

Posted by: Acadian Nov 22 2015, 01:41 PM

It can certainly take a lot to get old games running well on current machines. And for any interested in this game, your detailed help is a wonderful resource! Thanks for sharing your experience so that anyone trying the same path has an easier time of it.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 22 2015, 04:47 PM

Yeah, it's a shame that Obsidian weren't given all the time that they needed, but, since it's Obsidian, it would still have been buggy Though I do think that the Jedi count in the game was a little on the high side.

I don't know that I'd call Kreia my favourite character from the Star Wars universe, but she's certainly up there. And I loved all those little hints she dropped about Revan and what happened to him. And it was nice to see a force user who didn't push for a choice between light or dark, but somewhere in between.

Iirc, while Visas had a great voice, I don't think I ever used her much. I tended to play as a Sentinel, so I didn't really need another on the team, and I don't think she was set up particularly well for it anyway. I do remember that I always went through all the conversations possible with her

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 22 2015, 09:41 PM

Kreia just annoys me to no end. I am only just getting started on Kotor 2, but as I recall she berates you ceaselessly about whatever choices you make, dark or light. If you give a starving person a fish to eat she excoriates you for rewarding their helplessness and preventing them from learning to stand on their own two feet. If you just kill them and take all their credits she chastises you for tyrannizing the weak. But as I recall, the game never gives you the option of taking a neutral path, and teaching the person to fish, so they can feed themselves for the rest of their lives. If the game actually allowed you to take a middle path she would be a useful character. But as I recall, the game still forces you into either the stereotypical good or evil routes, with no other options. That made Kreia just a pain the rear whom I never want to waste my time talking to.

Or I might honestly be mis-remembering. It has been a very long time since I played Kotor 2. To the point where I am not entirely sure what things are from the mods I am now using, and what was part of the vanilla game. If the game really does offer a neutral path, then I am sure I will warm up to Kreia this time around.

Visas always made my heart go pitter-patter. She was always in my party whenever I had the chance. I was always trying to peek up into that hood of hers to see if she really had eyes or not! Multiple Jedi are a pain the rear to micro-manage. There are just too many powers, and the wear off too quickly. It takes forever to buff up before going through a door, especially when you find there is nothing on the other side.

And Destri, I did go to that Dark Side! Her name was Jaelyn. It was over between us a long time ago, but I honestly still dream about her to this day. Come to think of it, she is the one who introduced me to the Kotor games, and loaned me my first copies to try them out. The dark-side consular was her favorite class, for just the reasons you mentioned. There was always plenty of lightning in her games!



Here are some essential mods:

Kotor 1
http://www.gamewatcher.com/mods/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-mod/lightsaber-choices - When you construct your lightsaber on Dantoine, this mod gives you more options in the choice of your color crystal, what type of saber (standard, short, or double), and lets you create a second one too if you want to dual wield.

http://kotor.gamebanana.com/skins/49166 - changes the look of the jedi robes, based on the Bastila robes. A big improvement over the vanilla look.



Kotor 1 & 2
http://www.gamewatcher.com/downloads/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-download/kotor-tool-1 - A savegame editor that allows you to modify all of your stats, and those of your companions.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 22 2015, 10:16 PM

Iirc there are some choices you can make that Kreia approves of, and from what I remember the dark side options she berates you for are the more gratuitous ones(I seem to recall she had something to say when one of my Exiles made some guy jump to his death on Nar Shaddaa).

But ultimately, trying to remain grey is a bad move. Without a certain number of light or dark side points you don't get the prestige classes. Visas' appearance is similarly triggered, so it's really not worth trying unless you can find some mods to alter things.

And I don't think I really bothered micro-managing my Jedi. I think I mainly brute-forced my way through the game, because a Sentinel/Watchman with a pair of heavily modified Mandalorian Rippers and an amped up dual-bladed lightsaber can cause colossal levels of carnage. Throw in a few offensive powers, a Jedi Guardian, and I think I used Kreia a lot too, and it's insane.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Nov 24 2015, 01:09 AM

Yeah I had no problem with Kreia’s constant nitpicking. I just chalked it up to a flaw in her character. After all, she does risk her own life to save yours at the start of the game. And, selfish motivations or not, she does tend to care for you and your plight far more than the ineffectual fools on the Jedi Counsel who are perfectly content to throw you to the wolves while they continue to hide. I know that she ultimately has her own agenda, but even at the end she tells you how much she cares about you.


Jaelyn sounds hot! Plus she introduced you to Kotor!

Thanks for the mods list. I'll definitely check out the robes if/when I buy the game. Even though they aren't the kind of Jedi robes I would prefer, they offer more options than vanilla Kotor gives us. I actually like the standard blue, green, yellow lightsaber schemes and what those colors represent (wait, it is yellow for a Sentinel right?).

I also agree that it is a bit tedious micro-manging jedi, but I think that has more to do with the turn-based combat system than anything else. What Star Wars in general (and the Kotor franchise in particular) needs is a game with a combat system that is more real time. Something along the lines of what the Witcher series does would be fantastic. I want to be able to block and parry with my lightsaber before launching an enemy thirty feet into a wall with my force powers. I want to be able to block incoming blaster fire by holding down the block button... and I want the degree to which I am successful to be based on my skill with the blade and my knowledge of the force. I want to be able to manipulate objects of varying sizes with telekinetic force powers. I want the long flowing robes with a hood that I can toggle up or down.

And, most importantly, I want to be able to play as something more than just a human!

(Oh, and before anyone says it, I despise MMO’s in general and SWTOR in particular.)

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 24 2015, 02:25 AM

Jaelyn is hot!

I forget what class yellow was for. It might be sentinel. I always preferred purple, so that is what I have usually gone for thanks to that mod. I would love a black saber though, like http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/a/a6/Darksaber-SWE.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110918165551.

What I would like to see is a little more originality with the Force Powers. Not just in a future game, but in the Star Wars universe as a whole. As I said in a different topic, we never see a Jedi using the Force to calm the savage beasts like Gundarks, or those big monster things in the arena in Attack Of The Clones. Why can't there be an Animal Whisperer Force Power? Or someone who can read the Force energy in another and thereby predict everything they do before they do it? Or siphon that Force energy for themselves? Or control it (and use it to make them chop their own head off with their lightsaber). Or use the Force to make your body harder than diamond, and immune from lightsabers. Or to regenerate any wound. With something like the Force, the options should be as wide open as mutant powers are comics.

I think Jedi and Sith would be a lot more interesting if part of gaining mastery meant moving beyond the stock techniques like deflecting blaster bolts and telekinesis, and developing a unique ability like one of those above. Something really strong that defines how they use the force, and is a reflection of who they are as a person. You would still have the runt Jedi Knights and Sith Assassins, but the Obi-Wans, Yoda's, Mace's, etc... would all be one of the kind.

I don't have any interest in MMOs either. I was so disappointed when The Old Republic came out. I would have vastly preferred a third Kotor game. Or another Jedi Academy game. Or even a new X-Wing game.

And yes, I want to play as a Twi'lek! Or an Iridonian, or a Tortugan! Humans are so boring. I already have to play one IRL.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Nov 24 2015, 03:09 AM

You actually do get both Affect Mind and Beast Trick as universal powers (meaning accessible to both light & dark) in Kotor 2. I actually think thay did that part of the game extremely well. Here’s a http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic_II:_The_Sith_Lords/Force_powers that discusses all the force powers.

I’d like to see a future game move beyond the limiting confines of Jedi vs. Sith. Or, more precisely, i’d like to see Sith who aren’t all ‘twirl the mustache’ evil (or, at the very least, let’s see a bit more subtlety in the evil... like the machinations of Palpatine) and Jedi who aren’t all saccharine do-gooders (give us the option to be a Qui-Gon).

Good and evil in videosgames needs a complete overhaul in general. These games aren’t made for a pre-teen audience anymore, so why do we continue to have such an anachronistic morality system?

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 24 2015, 10:14 AM

Iirc:

Yellow is for Sentinels
Blue is for Guardians
Green is for Consulars



I have to disagree with the underlined. By the time we get around to people like Obi-Wan Kenobi, even by the time we get around to Revan and the Old Republic, the Force has been used by Jedi and Sith for thousands of years. The teaching methods for the safe use of that power are long established, categorised, and classified. They're all drawing from the same source of power, as a result of similar training, along similar lines. So them all being capable of similar things makes sense. On the other hand mutant powers are a grab bag of randomness, courtesy of the quirks of unguided mutation.

There are a few quirks though. Corran Horn/Kieran Halcyon from some of the books had the ability to absorb energy, even from a lightsaber, and redirect as force energy. We see Darth Vader do the same in Empire Strikes Back when Han shoots at him on Bespin. And, much as I despise the prequels, there is the reference to Darth Plagueis, who basically became almost immortal thanks to the force, and Yoda catching and seemingly absorbing Force Lightning with ease. But that apparently required an immense mastery of the Force, and possibly a vast amount of time to reach that level. Not to mention going way beyond what they were taught.

It would basically turn every Sith or Jedi of importance into walking, semi-invincible gimmicks.



Same here. Anyone of those games would have been awesome.

And with the number of races popping up in the Star Wars universe, we really need the chance to play as them.



I have to agree with you on this.

In all honesty, I blame the Extended Universe for that. Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda, the proper Jedi from the original films, weren't the good guys. They were more grey than light or dark. Vader and Palpatine were definitely dark, but they were being opposed by the Rebels, and they were the good guys, not the Jedi. Luke wasn't even a good guy, not really. Once his Jedi training kicked in, he dropped the Rebels and went off to pursue his own goals. Take Return of the Jedi, where his goal was to redeem his father, while the Rebels were trying to bring down the oppressive Empire, and would have succeeded whether Luke was present or not.

But the Sith are the bad guys, and it takes Jedi to stop them. Which, by default, forces Jedi to be the good guys(becuase who wants complicated moral situations, right? ). Which is what they ran with for all the books and videogames. And the prequels were made for that pre-teen audience(******* Jar-Jar Binks ), so why not make the games for them too? Bleh.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 25 2015, 12:55 AM

I discovered something interesting in KOTOR 2. The Stun/Disable Droid powers can also be used to blow up mines. That is very helpful, since it gives me a chance to knock them out before the rest of the party runs over them.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Nov 25 2015, 09:39 AM

I agree with that to a certain degree. Tatooine Obi-Wan definitely falls into more of the anti-hero mold for the same reasons that you ascribe to Luke. He shows no real desire to rescue Leia or liberate the stolen plans once they arrive on the Death Star. He just goes off to do his own thing. Clone Wars era Obi-Wan is absolutely a good guy.


The problem is that the Jedi never actually stop them, do they? That gets to the root of my problem with the Jedi Order. It seems to me that their stated purpose of protecting the Republic is always discarded anytime the Republic is actually threatened. The Jedi seem far more interested in vacillating and hiding than doing their stated job. Both Yoda and Obi-Wan retreat to the hind end of the galaxy to avoid getting involved in a war that they have (supposedly) dedicated themselves to fight. They are both content to leave the fate of the galaxy to the rebel alliance and a farm boy from Tatooine.

Even their rules against the stronger emotions bother me. Avoiding the passions that make us human because those passions could lead to the dark side isn't wisdom… it's cowardice. It seems to me that allowing oneself to feel said emotions and then rising above their tendency to corrupt is what would make one a stronger Jedi. What exactly constitutes the Jedi trials, anyway? I feel that it is probably in keeping with what Luke went through in the cave on Dagobah. That trial involved facing his fear, not running from it. I don't understand why that has to end the moment one becomes a full member of the Order.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 25 2015, 10:43 AM

Tatooine Obi-Wan was far more committed than Clone Wars Obi-Wan was. He sacrificed himself on the Death Star not so the Millennium Falcon could get away(which he'd already ensured) but so that he could continue to guide Luke.

Clone Wars Obi-Wan couldn't even finish off the man who brought down the Jedi Order.



Well, if they got rid of the Sith, who will they use for the enemy in the next game/book/comic/whatever?

I'd consider that a generous view of Yoda and Obi-Wan. They'd been hiding for years, waiting for Luke to come to them so that they could turn him into an unwitting weapon to kill his own father. And Yoda's even open to the possibility of using Leia should Luke fail. And personally, I actually liked that dark aspect of them. It made a nice contrast to Rebel Alliance vs The Empire, a clear good vs evil struggle.

The biggest problem with the Jedi Code is that it's more about avoidance than anything else. It's not that they want to be good, but that they don't want to be bad, because it's dangerous for them. But they're not really invested in anything, not in the Republic, not in each other, not even in their own lives, because that would require attachment and emotion. So you get this order that is supposed to be good, but has no actual reason to be beyond self-interest. Which is what tends to make Jedi crummy heroes.

At least the KotOR games manage to show this. In those we're told that the Jedi Council didn't fight with the Republic in the Mandalorian Wars because their concern was what war would mean for the Jedi. And then we're given heroes who could end up becoming villains instead.

I was under the impression that the test on Dagobah wasn't about confronting his fear, but about simply facing the dark side. He sees Vader, backs away in fear, and activates his lightsaber. Vader only activated his afterwards. Luke gave into fear, possibly anger too, and struck Vader's head off. Then the mask bursts open and we see Luke's face, the lesson being that by giving in to those emotions he destroyed himself. Or at least, that's how it always seemed to me. On the dvd that scene is listed as "Failure at the cave". Presumably that's what the trials came down to, facing the dark side and resisting it.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Nov 25 2015, 06:03 PM

The point is that he faced the dark side in that cave and emerged the better for it, despite the so-called failure. That failure is what fueled him to be able to withstand the later confrontations with Vader, which I don't believe would have been possible without the failure in the cave. Too often we see the Jedi run from those confrontations out of fear for what could happen. That, to me, is the very definition of cowardice.

And Clone Wars Obi-Wan absolutely failed, I agree with you on that. But success is not a measure of what makes one a good guy.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 25 2015, 07:03 PM

I agree with Destri here on Jedi emotion. The whole Jedi philosophy of fighting and repressing ones emotions has been proven to have disastrous consequences in the real world. When you deny your emotions you give up all control over them, and in the darkest recesses of your mind they grow into a Shadow that is guaranteed to break loose in the form of some extremely unfortunate behavior, usually at the most socially awkward moment possible.

The only way to master your emotions is to first accept them, and understand that they come from you and only you. No one can make you mad, or frightened, or happy. They all come from you, and you have the power to do something about them. With unwanted emotions - like jealousy and hatred - the next step is to take a hard, uncensored look at yourself and face the reasons you feel these things, and then do something about it. It might be to come to understand that the person you are jealous of doesn't really have it all that good after all, or to realize that you are projecting all of your own insecurities onto them, or just to buy a Jaguar so you can get hand-jobs from women you don't even know (a.k.a. the midlife crisis special)...

Most of all you have live with your emotions to learn to well, live with them. The Jedi never do that. Instead they learn to pretend to never to feel anything. They are the Cult of Prozac. It is no wonder that they have all the emotional durability of porcelain that has just been thrown out of a twenty story window. Sometimes it seems like every time a puppy dies a Jedi turns to the dark side. The Sith are no better, as they simply indulge all their most destructive emotions instead. One side has no Pathos, and the other no Ethos.

Instead they ought to be learning to live with their emotions in a healthy way, and in the process gaining true wisdom. Emotions are not a bad thing. Fear keeps people alive, it dissuades us from doing stupid things like dancing on the edge of cliffs, or jumping into lion cages (well, most of us at least). Anger has often led people to fight injustice. Without lust we wouldn't be alive in the first place. And so on. I think the whole Jedi/Sith philosophies are just evidence that George Lucas does not know a whole lot about actually living life.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 25 2015, 07:33 PM

So am I the only one who thinks that http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Kylo-Ren-1-970x545.jpg is a ripoff of http://orig01.deviantart.net/3b07/f/2007/346/c/6/darth_revan_undercity_cover_by_sandracmartins.jpg?

Posted by: mALX Nov 25 2015, 09:02 PM

Ooooh, nice! Wish someone would make that for TES games!

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 25 2015, 11:05 PM

Except he didn't. he failed the test so completely that after the vision he basically gave in to fear, abandoned his training, and ended up in a fight against Vader that he wasn't ready for. Rather than run away from a confrontation for fear of what could happen, Luke ran into a confrontation for fear of what could happen. Not only did he fail the test, but he failed to learn anything from it.

It's only after Luke goes back to Yoda in return of the Jedi that he's really a Jedi. He speaks to Yoda, and then to Obi-Wan , knowing that they lied to him. But he's not raging out or anything.

And bear in mind that later in the Extended Universe timeline Luke Skywalker turned to the dark side. So even after confronting the dark side, and then redeeming his father from it, he still turned to the dark side and ended up serving the Reborn Emperor.



True, but the fact he didn't finish Anakin off shows a distinct lack of conviction. Then again, his hands were tied by the original films, so I suppose you can't solely blame him for that And in all honesty, I don't think that any Jedi involved in the Clone Wars can be considered good, since it meant them turning a blind eye to the slave army the Republic is using.



While I agree with you in principle, I don't think it can be directly applied to the Jedi. Bear in mind we don't know the mechanics of how the Jedi and Sith manipulate and direct the Force, the impact their emotional state has on that, or exactly how great the risks involved are. What we're doing is the equivalent of debating magical techniques in Dungeons and Dragons.

But consider how much damage an emotionally unstable person could do with a gun. The Force has far greater destructive potential than that, and it's not something someone can simply put down. Stripping them of their connection to the Force is possible, but appears to require several Jedi Masters to do so, and is irreversible. And these individuals can manipulate the Force long before they would reach emotional maturity.

The Jedi have thousands of years worth of examples of what can happen when a Jedi turns to the dark side, including Sith Lords who've brought the Republic to it's knees, fought the Jedi Order to the brink of destruction, or wiped out entire planets. It's not like they're exaggerating the threat, and using emotions to channel the Force is a Sith doctrine, written into their own Code. Is it really any surprise the Jedi take the opposite stance?



I'll be honest, there's been an advert on tv for batteries with that mask on it, and until now I could have sworn it actually was Revan on there instead

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 26 2015, 01:03 AM

Which is why if they were wise, the Jedi would learn to control their emotions. Especially before they learn to kill people with nothing but a thought. As I said, repressing your emotions is a guarantee that you cannot control them. It insures an unstable mind. The Jedi's very teachings push them to the dark side. They create the threat with their own ignorance of basic psychology.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 26 2015, 01:30 AM

Two things:

1) That would mean trying to teach emotional control to small children who possess powers they can't/don't understand, may not be able to properly control, and may well fall into bad habits should they develop a degree of control on their own.

2) Considering that the vast majority of Jedi in the Star Wars universe have not been nuts and turning to the dark side, it would appear The Force provides some form of stabilising influence.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 26 2015, 04:00 AM

It is when we are children that we begin to learn to deal with our emotions. First we throw tantrums. Then if we have good parenting we learn that simply screaming is not the way to get what we want and need. We learn to love and care for others. We learn what is like to lose those we love - when our goldfish dies, when the family dog or cat dies, as we watch grandma and grampa die. This is where we first learn to deal with grief, and to understand that we can live with loss. Childhood is one of the most important parts of a person's life, because this is when ideas and behaviors are first instilled, such as possessing a conscience. Instead of learning how to wield lightsabers, 8-year olds should be learning how to be 8-year olds. How to just live life as decent sentient beings, rather than how to be killing machines.

But powers they cannot control? One thing the movies and games have been very clear about is that without training, force ability is all but wasted. No one even has a clue that they are force-sensitive until an actual force-user tells them. Anakin was the Uber Chosen One, possessing the most raw power of any Force-user ever. Yet without training all that amounted to was he was a good pod racer. Luke was force-sensitive, but without Obi-Wan's guidance he was just a good pilot. The same with Leia, and so on.

OTOH, the entire army of Jedi that went to war with Revan turned to the dark side. As you said yourself, even Luke went to the dark side. People in the KOTOR games don't like Jedi because they cannot see any difference between the Jedi and the Sith. Given that most of the Sith were Jedi it is no surprise. The Sith (not the race, but the 'modern' force-users) even started out as renegade Jedi. The failings of the Jedi Order created them. That is pretty significant.

Remember that the dark side is constantly tempting people. That is not a stabilizing influence. The more one is in touch with the Force, the more danger there is of going over the edge. A person really needs to know themselves to survive that temptation. Locking yourself out from your own feelings is a guarantee that you will not be able to control yourself. I am not making this up. Look up Repression or Facing The Shadow. Even without super-powers thrown in, that is a powderkeg just waiting to go off.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Nov 26 2015, 06:22 AM

This has turned into a fascinating debate. SubRosa articulated my feelings on the subject perfectly, so I won't just parrot what she has already said. The logic behind the teachings of the order don't concern me as much as their tendency to run from their stated purpose of protecting the Republic. For the most part the Jedi who left to join the Mandalorian Wars weren't succumbing to their baser emotions, they were simply trying to fulfill their purpose as Jedi. And, instead of embracing these young Jedi the Order chose to shun them. The Exile didn't fall to the dark side, yet she (because she is always female in my mind) was shunned by the Order as well. That wasn't the Order protecting itself, that was the Order acting out in a fit of pique... and it smacks as so hypocritical that it makes me hate the Jedi by the end of the game, even when I play a light character.

And Luke didn't leave Dagobah because of his failure in the cave. The two events had nothing to do with each other. He left Dagobah after the vision of his friends in trouble. He chose to act (like Revan before him) despite Yoda's counsel that he should simply do nothing... which, it seems, is the Jedi way.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 26 2015, 09:20 AM

At the age of eighteen, Dessel, who later became Darth Bane, used the Force to kill his father. He had received no training, was unaware of his abilities, but had a great deal of anger. A standout case, I'll grant you, but in the books there are plenty of references to Force sensitive individuals gaining a measure of control over their abilities without training. A child throwing a tantrum may well be able to lash out with the Force.

And considering that the prequels are a continuity trainwreck, even with just the original films, I'm inclined to ignore anything from them. Particularly where Anakin Skywalker is concerned, in light of the hang up they had with him.

But, this entire discussion is rather academic. If they could simply wait until a Force sensitive individual was an emotionally stable adult before training them to use the Force, then why weren't they simply doing that? Unless you think they were just screwing people up for kicks, then there must be a very specific reason for their approach.



Revan was something of a special case. He basically had his mind controlled by the single most powerful Force user in existence, the Sith Emperor, who turned him against the Republic to pave the way for his invasion. As for Revan turning the rest, Kreia explains that in one of the conversations with her.

And why would the people in KotOR see any difference between Jedi and Sith? It was Revan who led the Jedi into the war against the Mandalorians, only to disappear, return as Sith, and wage war on the Republic. When you've got a Jedi hero leading an army of Sith, you think the people are going to differentiate?

And Luke thought he was saving the galaxy somehow by doing so, and I believe it was implied that he believed his father had made the same choice. It's been a while since I read the graphic novels in question.

And it should be pointed out that the conflict between light and dark side Force users has been taking place since the Force was first harnessed, long before the dogmatic Jedi Order was even established. Since we don't know the specifics of how it began, or the original doctrines regarding training of those who were Force sensitive, it is entirely possible that what your advocating was tried and failed, leading to the Jedi and their doctrine.



At no point have I suggested or thought anything along those lines.

However, by your arguments the vast majority of Jedi should fall prey to the dark side. The Jedi Order should have collapsed long before even the time of Revan, just under the sheer number of dark Jedi they were creating. The fact that they didn't implies that something's working in their favour. So either the vast majority of Jedi weren't encountering any triggers to turn them to the dark side, or the fact that they were in a way connected to all life in the galaxy acted as a stabilising influence on their minds.

If your argument is that the Jedi Order shouldn't exist because they'd all go off the deep end due to being emotionally repressed, then the only reason they're still around is because the authors and writers say they are. Which essentially makes this a moot topic.



Wasn't it mentioned somewhere in the KotOR games that the Jedi Council thought there was something else behind the war with the Mandalorians? It's been a while since I played them, so I'm not quite sure. It probably would have been KotOR2.

As for the Exile, she(it's actually canon that the exile was female) had a very particular affliction. She was a wound in the force, the same kind of phenomenon that we see in Darth's Nihlus and Sion. What's said about her by the Jedi Masters in KotOR2 makes it very clear that there was something very wrong with her, something that couldn't be cured, which was as much the reason for her being exiled as her actions. By the time she reached the Council she couldn't even feel the Force anymore, because of it.



Luke reacted the same way to the test and to the vision. He freaked out, and let his fear push him into reckless action. He only survived the fight with Vader because Vader wanted to turn him to the dark side rather than kill him. Luke simply wasn't ready for the fight, which is why Yoda wanted him to finish his training. If Vader had wanted Luke dead, Luke wouldn't have stood a chance at that point.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 26 2015, 04:37 PM

I do not think it is because they were screwing people up for kicks. I think it is because they were fools. More specifically, because George Lucas doesn't know a whole lot about some of the most basic realities of human psychology. He wrote what he did in ignorance. Teaching people to repress their emotions does not make them stable, it makes them timebombs.

The vast majority of Jedi should fall to the dark side. They would if they really existed and followed the Jedi code. Because that is how the human mind works (and apparently every alien mind, since I do not believe I have ever seen an alien race in the Star Wars universe display patterns of thought or feeling different from human ones). That is what I am getting at. Lucas' writing that created the Jedi code is flawed.



In Kotor 1 you learn that the Jedi Council held back from getting involved in the Mandalorian War because they felt some hidden, darker force orchestrating events. That turned out to be a Sith (the race) Empire hiding beyond Republic space. They had put the Mandalorians up to attacking the Republic. The Council wanted to wait to see what it was before committing any Jedi to the conflict. But Revan went anyway and won, and then the Sith somehow captured him and turned him, and apparently he turned the rest of his Jedi, except the Exile.

So the Council was right in that something else was out there. But their failure to act is just as damning IMHO. If not for Revan the Mandalorians would have enslaved the galaxy, the Jedi would have been hunted down one by one and killed, and the Sith would have won. OTOH, if the Council had taken part in the war, then I believe Revan would not have fallen. I base this assumption simply on the fact that the Sith Empire was hidden. If they were hiding, then they were not able to face the Republic and the Jedi Council openly. Instead they had to use proxies like the Mandalorians. So if the Council had been present, they would have been too strong for the Sith to have been able to kidnap them and turn them, as they did Revan. That is an assumption, but it seems to me that if the Sith had been strong enough to attack openly, they would have, and not hidden.

I think there is a novel or comic series that detailed it all, but I never read them, I am just going by what I read in Wookiepedia. Kotor 1 never gives any specifics about the hidden Sith Empire, or that it was even Sith. All the game ever says is a hidden enemy. So my guess is that someone simply took the events of the game, and decided to write some EU material about it after the fact which fleshed things out.

I also found myself intensely disliking the Jedi Council by the end of Kotor 1. Kotor 2 just made it worse. I suspect that the Council's unwillingness to act was simply a writing ploy used by Bioware and inherited by Obisidian as a way to make sure the player character is the only one who can save the galaxy. Just like how in Skyrim no npc can do anything, not even carry a sword from their smithy to give to their father. The player character has to do everything, because they are special. If the Council had gotten off their robed rears, there would be nothing for the player to do!

Oh, and it eventually became http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Meetra_Surik that the Jedi Exile was female, years after the game. I think it is the only case where a female protagonist is canon in a Star Wars game.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 26 2015, 05:41 PM

Well, far be it from me to defend Lucas

There are some alien races that think and behave differently to humans, but they don't tend to feature in central roles for obvious reasons.



To be precise, the opened ended hints dropped in KotOR&2 regarding Revan and his actions were turned into a tie in for The Old Republic. I believe Revan actually appears in the game, though I can't say for certain.

According to the book Revan (which takes place before and after KotOR2, I've read it once or twice)

At the end of the Mandalorian War, Mandalore the Ultimate, as he lay dying, revealed to Revan that the Sith had promised him victory. Revan and Malak went looking for answers, and found more than they expected to find. They found that Mandalore had told the truth, that the Sith were still out there(This would be after the Great Hyperspace War, 1,000 years before). They assumed that the Mandalorians had been manipulated into attacking the Republic either to prepare the way for their invasion, or to simply test its strength. Rather than report their findings to the Council they went in search of the Sith Empire, and found them.

Whether the Council's presence would have made any difference is debatable. The Sith Emperor is supposedly a thousand years old, killed/absorbed an entire planet with his powers, and so might have been able to dominate the entire Council.

But it should be noted that Revan, in some small way, did manage to fight the compulsion placed on him, unlike Malak. Hints are dropped, in KotOR2 I believe(I think the Handmaiden mentions it, maybe Kreia too), that Revan's campaign against the Republic was waged in such a way as to preserve certain levels of infrastructure. It's implied he might actually have been intending to conquer the galaxy to keep something else from doing so, though that's speculation. But, as with just about every Jedi hero in the games, Revan is made out to be something special.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 26 2015, 08:47 PM

I discovered something interesting in Kotor 2. Visas always appears in the same outfit no matter what you give her to wear. She does not even get the option to choose any of the armor feats during level up. But if you use the Kotor Editor to give them to her, she can wear armor normally, and it replaces her standard outfit. Except for the hood, which she always keeps.

I found a http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/9-remove-restrictions-for-force-powers-by-armors/. So now I have Visas in a suit of Light Echani Armor, the same as my character Brighid.

I tried the same with Kreia, but with her it does not work. She still looks exactly the same, even with Heavy Mandalorian Armor.

I am also enjoying Kotor 2 less than Kotor 1. There seems to be a lot more cinematics, usually piled one on top of the next so it takes forever get through and actually play the damn game. I am always crossing my fingers that the game does not crash during one, and force me to go through it all over again.

But worse is the combat mechanics. The game often ignores the commands I put in for my team to do, and just does whatever it feels like. Which usually means charging forward and attacking with the base melee attack. It doesn't matter if I set them to Ranged or Stationary. Usually it occurs when I tell them to throw a grenade or use a force power buff. Instead they charge in. I don't remember that ever happening in Kotor 1.

I am also disappointed with the outfits. The Jedi Robes all look like shapeless bags to me, especially when viewed from behind (which face it, is most of the game). In Kotor 1 I got over it with a mod that adds some really cool robes based off Bastila's. But I haven't found any clothing mods for Kotor 2 that look good. Hence my using Echani armor and that mod that makes Force powers work with everything.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 26 2015, 08:59 PM

As I recall there are a couple of armours that allow the use of force powers, but them popping up is solely down to the rng. I always used to hunt these down for my characters, just because I like the look of them.

I do recall getting a recurring glitch pop up on the xbox version of the game where commands wouldn't be properly acknowledged. I can't quite remember, but I think it had something to do with the timing of the command and what the character was doing.

I'm not sure why they'd be ignoring their weapons though, never seen that before. And considering I used to play these games on the 360 with its terrible backwards compatability that meant even more bugs, that's really saying something.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 26 2015, 10:14 PM

They do use whatever weapon they have equipped. They just make the normal attack with it, rather than say flurry or critical strike. Of course this is when I want them to use a grenade...

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 26 2015, 10:59 PM

Ah, gotcha.

I take it you're directly ordering the attack, rather than queuing it? I seem to recall that being more effective at getting the characters to do what I wanted them to.

I can't be certain of the exact circumstances(and this was on the xbox version), but I believe that ordering an attack, rather than queuing it, during the wrong part of an animation resulted in it being overwritten by a repeat of the attack in progress at the time. I recall it being a real pain when trying to heal, for instance. I don't know if that's what happening in your game, but it's the only thing along those lines that I can remember.

It's been far too long since I've played these games

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 27 2015, 03:48 AM

I just tried it again, and at the beginning of a fight I filled up Visas' action queue with force lightning, and my PC Brighid's queue with grenades. Both of them charged forward and attacked in melee instead. Then after their first attack, started the lightning and tossing grenades. The latter of course being at point blank range thanks to Brighid running up to the target first. *sigh*

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 27 2015, 09:31 AM

Right, dealing with the initial attack seems to have two options. From what I've found online pressing f should cancel all combat actions, so that might stop the initial attack. The alternative would be to go into the settings and set the game to pause when sighting an enemy, letting you queue combat actions without the auto-attack getting in the way.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 27 2015, 04:29 PM

I do have the auto-pause set when sighting an enemy, and the queues are empty when I add in grenade throwing or force power usage.

Interesting thing, it does not happen when I do not have any companions. I restarted the game, and it has not happened once. I have been alone all this time.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Nov 27 2015, 11:38 PM

Hmm, that is weird. I don't recall coming across a bug like that.

Then again it was a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...




Sorry.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 29 2015, 09:56 PM

In the past I have always created characters with high Dexterity and never bothered putting any points into Strength. First because you needed a high Dex bonus to make up for the lack of real armor you could wear and still use Force powers. Second because in Kotor 1 you automatically used either your Dex or Strength bonus to hit with a lightsaber, whichever is higher. In Kotor 2 there is a Feat you can take for that. Finally your Dex bonus is what you use to hit with ranged weapons like blasters. So Strength always felt superfluous to me.

But thanks to the http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/9-remove-restrictions-for-force-powers-by-armors/ I have been rethinking that. I restarted Kotor 2 with a Jedi Guardian who is all Strength and no Dexterity. She'll be sticking to vibroblades in the early game, and dual lightsabers later. The Force Jump should make closing to melee range easy. For armor I can now use anything. Given that there are some out there with Defense bonuses of +10 and higher, defense should be no problem.

I also modded the classes a little to give Jedi Guardians and Consulars more skill points to spend, as a well as give Guardians a little more Force points, and Consulars a little more health. That should hopefully help with my biggest dislike of the Guardian class - low skill points.

I already created my Guardian Brigantia to give it a go. Then I used the http://www.nexusmods.com/kotor/mods/57 to remove some of the combat feats I won't be using, like Flurry and Sniper Shot, and instead took a bunch of Skill Focus feats to turn Security, Computer Use, and Repair into class skills (those Feats are one of the things I love about Kotor 2). I'll start playing her today, and see how it works. I am kind of excited, because it is something I have never done before in a Kotor game.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Dec 1 2015, 08:50 AM

Sorry if this debate has run its course, but...

As I recall they did feel that there was something behind the Mandalorian threat and they used that feeling as the reason they wouldn't commit to war. I'm curious, do you honestly believe that instinct (or force vision, intuition, etc) minus proof somehow absolves them for the billions that died under their so-called protection?

Thank you both for the clarification. I honestly didn’t know that the Exile was considered female.

On point, I was under the impression that her connection to the force was severed on Malachor V, and that the wound you speak of was created there both by her actions, and by the things that she witnessed. Like you I am going strictly from memory, so let me know if I’m wrong. The Jedi Masters discomfort with her started early in her training, as I remember it. It had something to do with her ability to form connections through the force (which sounds a lot like petty jealousy when you really stop to think about it… especially from 'Master' Vrook ).

All that aside, as of the time of KOTOR 2 there are only two known beings in the galaxy designated as so-called ‘wounds in the force’, The Exile and Darth Nihlus. Knowing what we do of the nature of balance within the force, isn’t it an obvious supposition that the Exile represents light to Nihlus’ darkness? Yet, without even considering that possibility the Jedi Masters take it upon themselves to attempt to permanently sever her connection to the force (which, we are told, is a fate worse than death to a force sensitive) because she possesses a power they cannot quantify or control. Earlier some of these same ‘Masters’ chose to destroy Revan’s mind and replace it with another because he has gone beyond their ability to manipulate and control.

Of course the above is an interpretation on my part, but it is an interpretation that is informed by the events of the game.


I think you're misunderstanding me. I’m not arguing that Luke was in any way ready to face Vader, He clearly wasn’t. I’m saying that choosing to act and choosing to face Vader (rather than the alternative) did more for his training as a Jedi that ten years of lifting X-Wings on Dagobah would have. You said yourself (and the events of the film tells us) that he was ready to be a full Jedi by the time he returned to Dagobah... without any further training from Yoda.


I remember that exact phrase too, so I don't think you're speculating. If so that goes a long way to support what 'Rosa is saying about the success Revan could have had resisting the lure of the dark side if he could have turned to the Council (though, of course, not to 'Master' Vrook ).

Oh and a very happy belated birthday to you, Callidus.

Posted by: mirocu Dec 1 2015, 10:54 AM

We grow from failure, not from success


But what do I know? I´m just a rebel scum...

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Dec 1 2015, 11:18 AM

Heh, I could talk Star Wars all day



But they had proof that something wasn't right. the Mandalorians weren't waging a war of conquest, but actively seeking to draw the Republic into battle. And went to some lengths to do so. And why? To fight the inferior warriors of the Republic? No, they wanted to fight the Jedi. But to what end? To see who were the better warriors? To test themselves? Or for some darker, unknown purpose? I believe both Mandalore and Kreia both say that it wasn't the Republic that was important, but the Jedi, so the Council was right to hold back to try and understand why the Mandalorians wanted to fight the Jedi.

Charging into a conflict without understanding it is a sure way to get in over your head. Which is exactly what happened to Revan.



Yes, it was at Malachor V that the Exile was wounded(I guess that's the best term to use). The Jedi Masters might have been uncertain about training her, but in all honesty, I think that that's as much to make The Exile into the same sort of Nexus that Revan was. Kreia spoke of the bonds of loyalty, and implies that Revan used them to turn those who followed him, and the Exile was given something similar but more innate.

Iirc the Sith Assassins in KotOR2 were given training based off of Force wounds, letting them draw strength from their enemies. This likely played a sizable role in their success. The balance in the Force argument, to my mind, tends to be rather weak. They've got a Sith Lord running around with the capability to destroy entire planets, and I believe it's uncertain how much the Jedi knew about Nihlus at the time. But, as dangerous as Nihlus was, The Exile probably had even greater potential because of her forging connections that so unnerved the Masters. If we assume that they knew even a little about how Revan was turning Jedi during the Jedi Civil War(his process involved Wounds in the Force) then The Exile might have been able to turn anyone, anywhere, at any time.

Found something on Wookiepedia on it: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wound_in_the_Force

And it should be noted that The Exile had lived without the Force since Malachor V, so I don't see that it could be considered a fate worse than death to her. I mean, we literally see them regain their connection to the Force in KotOR2.



The problem with that line of thinking is that it wasn't a question of resisting the lure of the dark side. What the Sith Emperor did to Revan was similar to what the Jedi did to him after they captured him. It wasn't a fall to the dark side, it was having part of his mind effectively remade, a kind of Force-powered brainwashing, to turn him into a Sith. Compared to Malak, who destroyed Taris and wrecked Dantooine, he was fighting the compulsion placed upon him. But he was no more free of the dark side than Malak was, no less willing to wage war on the Republic than Malak was.

And whether or not he could have fought the compulsion if he met the Sith Emperor again is utterly unknown.

The only way the Jedi Civil War could have been avoided is if Revan had followed the Council. Because that's the only way he wouldn't have ended up finding the hidden Sith Empire.



Thank you.

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 3 2015, 02:54 AM

I think I may have found a way to work around the bug of my characters ignoring their orders and blindly charging in and attacking the start of every fight. It seems that if I unpause the game for about a second, then pause again, I can issue orders that they will actually follow, such as throw grenades or use force powers.

I also finally settled into my Jedi Guardian Brigantia, and plan to finish the entire game with her. She just got her lightsaber, and wow, I have never had a Kotor character who could rack ass like her. She is throwing out 100 points of damage and change every round.

http://i.imgur.com/qEg6b8O.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/iZQAGtT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/T3IeAl0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UsBPbrB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GAEEncJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/H8HXKuZ.jpg

This time out I am finding I am liking Bao-Dur best of all the companions. In my previous plays I never really grasped that he is meant to be fight unarmed, and tried giving him weapons and was just disappointed. But this time out I am letting him Kung Fu his way through the game, and he is awesome! http://www.nexusmods.com/kotor2/mods/20 really helps as well, since he cannot wear pretty much every suit of armor in the game. Most of all though, I am really warming to his personality and backstory. I can feel Brigantia really drawn to him due to their shared experience of the Mandalorian War. Something neither of them wants to talk about, but at least can see that the other understands all too well. I can feel a powerful - even if unspoken - friendship there.

Posted by: Acadian Dec 3 2015, 08:25 PM

Eeep! It's Serana with a light saber!

So nice to see you enjoying another game, and that you've been able to create a character for this one that suits you. Good luck to Brigantia!

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 3 2015, 09:35 PM

Gog.com has the Kotor games - and a slew of other Star Wars games - massively on sale. The Kotors are $2.29 each. So if you don't own them, go out and get them now!

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Dec 3 2015, 10:17 PM

Thanks for that Subrosa. Looks like the prices are only massively reduced in the bundle though. As part of the bundle they're Ł1.59 each, but not separately. They were still 60% off though, so I got them for Ł2.69 each

I know I said I was planning to get them after my birthday, but I never expected them to be on sale

I can't download them quite yet, on account of the damage 5.4 gig would do to my datacap, but I've bought them. I'll probably lug my laptop somewhere to download them tomorrow.

Edit: And now I've downloaded them

Posted by: Destri Melarg Dec 4 2015, 07:49 PM

Suspicion doesn't equal proof. Five question marks in your own paragraph shows that there was no definitive answer. Kreia and Mandalore both consider the Jedi more important than the Republic, but that doesn't absolve the Jedi from their responsibility to the Republic. This idea that contemplating the motive of the aggressor is of the utmost importance falls flat to those who are dying while you contemplate. If someone is standing in front of you punching you in the face do you try to figure out why he is punching you, or do you put your dukes up?

And as for Revan, he didn't get in over his head by 'charging into a conflict.' His decision to act won the war and saved the Republic. However you are right about his decision to charge blindly into the unknown after the conflict had been won.


Thanks for the reminder about the Sith Assassins. It's been so long since I played that I completely forgot about them.

Let us assume for the sake of this discussion that the Jedi know enough of the nature of force bonds and wounds in the force that they are able to justify their decisions regarding their treatment of the Exile. I still believe that punishing a person based on what they may be capable of doing or the potential that they probably have is contrary to the spirit of the Jedi Code. The Jedi are supposed to represent the light side of the force. Discrimination, suspicion, vindictiveness, & censure are all so-called 'dark side' actions and they underscore the hypocrisy which festers within the heart of the Jedi Order.


Yeah, even as I was writing it I knew you'd pick that argument apart!


Except for the fact that the galaxy would be speaking Mandalorian and, if Kriea and Mandalore are to correct, the Sith Empire would rule them all and would therefore be unavoidable. No, the only way to prevent the events which culminated in the Jedi Civil War would have been for the Jedi to, idk, try to prevent the events that led to the Jedi Civil War.

Remember:



I liked Bao-Dur too. His shared backstory with the exile made their interactions feel more complex than any other character save Kreia. I actually never used him in a hand-to-hand role, that sounds awesome!

And I don't know why (maybe it's the jawline), but Brigantia looks like a steam punk character to me.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Dec 4 2015, 10:10 PM

There was no definitive answer to why they were doing it, but it doesn't change the fact that the Mandalorians were trying to draw the Jedi into a direct confrontation. And if you're acting as an enemy dictates in a war, then you're already losing it. If something behind the war wanted the Jedi weakened, or corrupted by war(even Revan was concerned about this), then ignoring that threat could lead to even greater loss of life.

And the underlined doesn't apply. The Republic was being attacked, but to goad the Jedi. If someone's trying to goad you into fighting them, you'd be an idiot not to try to figure out why, because it's a safe bet it'd be a bad move to fall for it.

As for Revan winning the war and saving the Republic, you don't think the fact that he then returned to wage war on it, and very nearly succeeded, undermines that claim? You don't think that, ultimately, that makes what he did the wrong decision?

It's already been established in this thread that there's a difference between a Jedi and an emotionally healthy person. There's also a difference between a good Jedi and a good person. Acting as he did may have made Revan a good person, but it made him a bad Jedi, to the cost of the Republic.



To be honest, I had only a vague recollection of the connection, and had to resort to Wookiepedia for the details.

Do you really believe her exile was unmerited? She defied the Council in going to war with Revan, destroyed an entire planet, and came back to them, not a Jedi, but a walking Wound in the Force that could no longer feel the Force. According to the book Revan both she and Revan were considered war criminals because of Malachor V by the Jedi, though what the rest of the Republic thought isn't mentioned. What place did she have in the Order, having turned her back on it, and in that condition? Was she made an example of? Perhaps. IN Revan Atris says she was, but as we know from KotOR2, she wasn't exactly the best person to ask. If it was mentioned in game or not, I can't remember.

Regarding the attempt to strip her of the Force, they knew that this was no great ordeal for her, it was something she had already endured with no great hardship. Even Kreia remarks on how exceptional that is. As for why? She was possessed of two powers that the Council could not begin to control, as she would ignore them is she wished to. She had already demonstrated a willingness to use unthinkable force, and was actively growing stronger, making her different from any other Wound in the Force. It's doubtful the shattered remnants of the Jedi Order could have stopped her, should that Wound in the Force corrupt her, so how else could they protect those around her? They could not trust her after what she had done, and that was something she had brought upon herself.



Firstly, at no point is it made clear what the Jedi Council was doing during before Revan acted. So there's no basis to assume they were not, and would not, act against the Mandalorians. We can talk to them about the Mandalorian Wars as the Exile, but they've no obligation to answer. So the "galaxy would be speaking Mandalorian" part is completely unsupported.

The Jedi were trying to prevent something of that nature, firstly by trying to understand the reasons behind the war, and secondly by trying to understand the effects going to war would have on the Jedi. Both of these were undermined by Revan going to war. You've confused not acting before they're ready with not acting at all, because after Revan joined the war they would not follow him. This is no basis for an assumption of what they would have done had Revan not done so.

And what do you mean by "the hypocrisy which festers within the heart of the Jedi Order."? Because what comes before it makes it seem like you believe the Jedi should offer complete and unconditional forgiveness in all cases.


Remember:

Revan acting on that principle led to him becoming a Sith Lord, and waging a second, greater war on the Republic. And it was only thanks to the Jedi who followed the Jedi Council and did not go to war, that Revan didn't destroy the Republic, and build his own Sith empire.

Acting irresponsibly is worse than not acting at all, as Revan's fall so aptly demonstrates.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Dec 4 2015, 11:41 PM

Sorry to double post, but since this is about the game itself rather than everything around it, it didn't really seem right to tack it on the end.

So, installed KotOR, and it runs without any apparent problems. I've decided not to go widescreen with it, partly because my laptop's pretty damn mediocre.

So I rolled up a Scout, named Saron Star, because it came up on the random name and I rather liked the sound of it. He's gone straight for two weapon fighting, but ditched blasters early on in favour of melee weapons, and he's now running around Taris with an Echani Ritual Brand. Makes me wish I'd reversed his strength and dexterity(12&14 respectively), but, no matter.

Haven't quite gotten back into it properly, but thus far the nostalgia is strong with this one

Posted by: Destri Melarg Dec 5 2015, 10:41 AM

I don't disagree with the fact that the Mandalorians were trying to goad the Jedi. Somebody along the way says as much in one of the games I'm sure. What bothers me is that the Jedi had no idea why they were being goaded at the outset of the war. To their minds the reason might have been as simple as the Mandalorian need to test themselves in battle as you've already brought up. Then they allowed fear (another dark side emotion) to render them impotent when faced with the loss of billions that they were sworn to protect.

'If something behind the war…', and 'could lead to an even greater loss of life' presupposes something they have no knowledge of. It is speculation used to mask cowardice on the part of the Jedi.


No I don't, and I'll explain why:

You're taking for granted that Revan's return was tied to his victory. I see them as two separate events. Revan's decision to follow the remnants of the Mandalorian fleet into unknown space had no bearing on his decision to join the war in the first place… and vice versa. Was Revan's decision to chase the Mandalorians the right one? Of course not for all the reasons you have so ably stated. Was his decision to join the war in the first place the right one? Absolutely because, as the game states, he won the war and saved the Republic.

I wonder: If Revan had not chased the Mandalorians after Malachor V, if he had instead returned to the Jedi Council would they have had the stones to exile him for disobeying them? I seriously doubt it. Not with the whole of the Republic watching. So if I can say that, then I have to consider the two as separate events.





I'll address both of these points together. I believe it is unmerited for the Council to exile any Jedi who has not fallen to the dark side. As Obi-Wan said: 'Only Sith deal in absolutes.' As for the hypocrisy, well, the Jedi Code is supposedly very clear... yet:

There is no emotion, there is peace - But fear seems to constantly govern their actions. Fear of his own death precipitated the fall of Exar Kun. Fear of the unknown kept the Jedi out of the Mandalorian War, and caused them to exile a Jedi they should have tried to understand. And fear of personal loss causes Anakin Skywalker to fall.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge - but, when faced with an unknown, they turtle and hide. Master Zez-Kai Ell felt that the Council was wrong in punishing the Exile but, in typical Jedi fashion, he chose to follow the herd rather than make his feelings known.
There is no passion, there is serenity - but Atris was among those who pushed for the Exile's execution…
and on and on.


A fair point, especially if you choose to play dark side. However, canonically the Exile is considered light side. She was the only one to resist the lure of the dark side. Even the Council was not of one mind on the subject (little wonder then that we aren't). Master Vash and Master Zez-Kai Ell consider her the perfect opportunity to examine why so many fall to the dark side, yet their voices are drowned out by fear and paranoia.


So you're saying that the Jedi were just getting their ducks in a row? How exactly was all that understanding going for them? By the end of the war (which, again, Revan succeeded in winning) did they have a clearer understanding of the threat they faced? Even with Jedi in active participation which, ostensibly, was the Mandalorians goal all along we saw no indication of this so-called 'greater threat.' The Jedi let all those people die needlessly so that they could succeed in learning absolutely nothing. Then they turned their backs on their own which led the heroic Jedi who did act when the Republic was in need down a path which led to the dark side. Revan isn't responsible for the Jedi Civil War… the Jedi Council is.



Another way to look at it is that Revan acting on that principle saved the Republic and defeated the Mandalorians. The Jedi ignoring that principle led Revan to go off without guidance into unknown space where he fell to the dark side.

Posted by: mALX Dec 5 2015, 04:07 PM

OH! Your new character is Brigantia! I thought it was Visas, oops!

That is so odd you need to pause it to get them to obey the commands, I wonder why? Is your team essential? I mean, when they charge in, do you have to worry about losing a member of your team?

I got a kick out of the "hammerhead ship," and it does kind of remind me of a hammerhead shark

The combat looks to be a little closer in on this game, I like that a lot better (for my eyesight too, lol).

That is funny about the one character "Kung Fu-ing" his way through the game, But very cool about the back story and sensation of closeness with that character - I really like when that happens in a game. I kind of got a little sense of that with Martin when you first brought him to Cloud Ruler Temple and he felt completely out of his element and kind of clung to the player as the only friend he had for a time. Really like when games can effect an actually feeling in a player.

Great shots!

Posted by: Destri Melarg Dec 5 2015, 06:31 PM

That is a consistent feature in Bioware's games that I would like to see Bethesda incorporate more. Even when the game itself is flawed (I'm looking at you Mass Effect 3) you are still able to enjoy the bond that you have forged with your crew over the course of 100+ hrs. Bethesda's followers feel tacked on by comparison. Fallout 4 is a (baby) step in the right direction. Followers now seem to have at least a bit of an existence independent of their meeting with the player, but IMHO they still haven't gone far enough.

And don't even get me started on the so-called 'romance' options.

Posted by: mALX Dec 5 2015, 06:41 PM

*mALX nods head in agreement at the eye-rolling version of "Romance" Bethesda injects into the game*

"So, I see you have the necklace of Mara on. If you like me, we can get married! I'll sleep fully clothed in either your bed or your housecarl's bed; cook a meal that looks like a dried up pizza when asked; and give you money if you'll marry me. But don't expect my personality to change, though i will call you "honey" and "dear" ... etc. "

At least in Fallout: New Vegas you got to hear Fisto's whirring gizmos in the darkened background; along with his sexy banter,

Posted by: Destri Melarg Dec 5 2015, 06:56 PM

Don't forget that you can be a confirmed Stormcloak and I can be a Dunmer, Argonian, or Khajiit laying waste to the Stormcloak population for the Empire and your dialogue won't even change!

And somehow I still haven't played New Vegas yet.

Posted by: mALX Dec 5 2015, 07:05 PM

Oh no, didn't you say you were going to try New Vegas? If you do, at least once your character has to "Test" Fisto,

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 5 2015, 07:11 PM

In Kotor 2 Bao Dur calls Mandalor a murderer, for the Mandalorian practice of slaughtering millions of innocent people - like on Cathar. Mandalore says it was the only way to get the Jedi's attention. He goes on to explain that they knew very little of the Jedi themselves. Their only contact being with those like Exar Kun who had already gone to the Dark Side. He says they wanted to test themselves against the Jedi. To see who was stronger. For them, attacking the Jedi Order was the meat and potatoes of the Mandalorian Crusade. Conquering worlds was just gravy on top.


My thought has always been that if the Jedi Council had led the Mandalorian Wars not only would they have ended sooner, but if anyone had gone off beyond known space to explore it would not have been Revan. Instead it would have been members of the Council. I don't really know a lot about the actual ability of the Council in Revan's time. But I can easily picture how things would have went if it had been Master Yoda and Master Windu:

"A hidden Sith Empire, found have we," Yoda says.

"Reach in that bag and hand me my lightsaber," Mace Windu growls, eyes fixed upon the Sith Emperor before them. "It's the one that says Bad*** Mother****!"

Purple lightsaber blade sticks through Sith Emperor's head. End of story.



There is something weird going on with the controls in Kotor 2. Characters often ignore their orders, or just stand there doing nothing. It gets really infuriating at times. I do not recall that ever happening in Kotor 1.

At first that weird ship made me think of a hammer, or a big mallet. Or the handle of a corkscrew. It is a weird design.

I really love how you can connect with a character in a game like with Martin, or the way I finally have with Bao-Dur. It makes the game world come alive, and your own character as well. Otherwise you are just killing things and not roleplaying.

Posted by: mALX Dec 5 2015, 07:29 PM

Me too. I never had it happen in any game till I played Oblivion, and there were several characters in Oblivion that seemed to draw the player into a deeper friendship - like the Knights of the Nine ghosts. After they returned to their graves, I missed them! I used to activate their tombs just to hear them talking to my character again.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Dec 5 2015, 08:20 PM

Edit:

You know what? Forget it. This discussion will just keep going otherwise, and will never get anywhere.

Oh, and in the interest of accuracy, Revan didn't follow the Mandalorians into the unknown regions. At Malachor V Revan fought Mandalore the Ultimate in single combat. As he was dying, Mandalore told Revan that the Sith had tricked him into attacking the Republic. Revan followed that lead, looking for the Sith.

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 7 2015, 12:00 AM

http://i.imgur.com/ccFXwBN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HhgEjbg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/O97I21v.jpg

Posted by: ghastley Dec 7 2015, 12:28 AM

So there are white rings, white particles, and it looks like white light-sabers all going on at once. Is that all from the same side? Don't the others get a turn?

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 7 2015, 01:09 AM

The white rings are from the other side! And they have a red blaster bolt.

Posted by: Acadian Dec 7 2015, 01:25 AM

Good for Brigantia. Finally got herself a dude with some armor. Oh how neat that she's learned Whirlwind Sprint Force Jump! Cool ship, cool bridge - so should make for some cool plans.

Posted by: mALX Dec 8 2015, 02:58 AM

Ooh, out and about in a town? Is there loot in the crates like those in the background of the Mandalore screen? And, is Mandalore the one kneeling?

Oh, that about to start combat screen is Awesome! Those spells that vault the enemy into my face always scare the heck out of me when it happens (when the enemy does it to me); so it really must be a great benefit for the Player in battle! It looks cool as heck, so does the sonic gun rings.

ESO has that "Force Leap" spell, but so far I've avoided taking it because I've been trying to fight ranged whenever possible - but it is a very effective move, doesn't give the enemy time to get a shot in on you before you are in his face, lol.

Which makes me wonder = do you have to repair your armor/weapons in this game?


The dialogue in the planning room at Ebon Hawk had me in hysterics!


These screens above any so far have made me want to play this game, lol. I like the idea of being able to get out and explore around like that.

Great shots!!!

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 9 2015, 01:50 AM

Acadian: I love the Mandalorian Armor. I wish there was a game that allowed you to play as a Mandalorian, just for the cool outfits!


mALX: It took me a long time to come to think of those ships as Hammerheads. The entire first time I played it years ago I never even made that leap at all. I just thought they were Screwdriver Ships back then. It was just a few weeks ago I imagined one sideways, and realized would look just like a hammerhead shark.

Mandalore is the one in the cool armor. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian. It's from a mod, that changes the armor of the Mandalorians in the game to the same style as worn by Jango and Boba Fett in the Star Wars movies. I think that looks much better than the vanilla Mandalorian armor from the game.

The Force Leap is really cool in the Kotor games. It almost instantly puts you across the map, and looks really cool for that split second it takes to get there. Your character actually does a flip in mid-air as they leap.

There is no armor or weapon repair in these games. There are some options to upgrade your gear with improvements. The system is pretty basic in Kotor 1, and gets really fleshed out in Kotor 2 - with tons more new options.

The Kotor games are fun. But they are not open worlds like a Bethesda game. There are only a certain number of places you can visit, and you have to visit them and advance the game's plot in them. The only real freedom is that you can choose the order in which you do some of them, and which side quests you want to do, and how you do them (there is a basic good/evil choice to most of the quests).


http://i.imgur.com/XQRJwcO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/J5mSDGY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xbDSXUk.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Yr8lMdv.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eQB87ZM.jpg

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 9 2015, 03:34 AM

I finally finished Kotor 2. My favorite of the two was Kotor 1 by far. 2 had way too many cinematics that take over, one after another, after another, after another. If I want to watch a movie, I'll watch a movie. I play computer games because I want to actually play computer games.

Posted by: Acadian Dec 9 2015, 04:53 AM

Great action shots. That Mandalore's helmet looks really cool. The wide eye visor slit reminds me of the robodude from the old movie 'The Day the Earth Stood Still'.

And congrats on beatin' the game with yer toon!

Posted by: mALX Dec 14 2015, 07:53 AM

OMG, I missed this one! Urk, I am so sorry!!! Feel free to smack me remind me if I am late getting here when you have updated; the way things are going in RL, I don't even remember my own name lately.


Bold = So either way it was some kind of tool ship?


Gaaaah, you should know better than mentioning Boba Fett; backpacks; or jets around me!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ5eLK_QKMc


Oh, this really tells me a lot about the game, thank you so much!



Wow, this first shot is amazing! Did your gun cause those flames?


Man, this is some great battle shots! I love this, and it was the same in Fallout 3 - when in a big battle like this; I like the battlefield to look like all hell is breaking loose - It looks like this game does even better than Fallout 3 at blowing up the scene !!! Awesome shots !!!!


Is your character the pretty redhead in the gorgeous armor? She looks Awesome! I like how she is just standing watching the fight, lol.
Oh no, wait - you are Brigantia, so who is the redhead?

Man, that pinheaded guy with the red-marked head is freaky looking!


Wow, the redhead jumped in to fight in that last shot, I see her sword! Is she on Brigantia's side? I hope so, her light saber is lighting up the whole area !!!

These shots are fantastic!!!!

I'm really sorry again for missing these - and Thank You, THANK YOU so much for the Banished game! I've been having a blast with it! My current build is in year 12/winter - not having trouble yet, but Ijust noticed a bunch of them are over 70 years old, the rest are over 55 except for 4 in their 30's and one 7 year old child. Urk. So I do see issues in the future unless I open a tavern or something to lube them up so they will start procreating.

I did finally lose one member, but it was from old age; not disease/freezing/starving/etc. I've learned a few things too, so if I have to start over, I'll do better next time.

Thank you again for it, I love it!

Posted by: mALX Dec 14 2015, 04:07 PM

- but agree with the sentiment!

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 14 2015, 04:36 PM

Oh noes! Fette's Vette!

The flames were a scripted event that happens when the Mandalorians board the bad guy's ship. That whole scene is all scripted. FO3 actually did a better much job of portraying big battles. The explosions are much more immersive.

The red head is Visas. That is actually a red hood that she never takes off. You never see her hair, or her eyes. She is too cool for that stuff!

I am glad you having so much fun with Banished. So you have a bunch of old farts? Better get working on that fountain of youth!

Posted by: mALX Dec 14 2015, 05:34 PM

I added one well, lol. Somehow I didn't "get" the idea of the market place, both of mine are out of the way. If I have to make a new town, I'll know better next time.

And I've been throwing up houses like mad, hoping some of those oldsters will get some renewed energy - at least enough to make a child before they pass; darn it! I wonder if the Herbalist knows how to make viagra?




Oh, by scripted - do you mean that fiery scene is one of the movie things you were talking about earlier? (Or is it scripted like the implosion of Raven Rock where it is actually taking place and your player controls are still intact (unless Fawkes force greets you right when you are trying to watch the explosion of the century and shoot helicopters out of the sky).

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 14 2015, 05:41 PM

It is basically a movie that runs once you get to that part of the game. Then after it runs you get to play the game again.

Posted by: mALX Dec 14 2015, 05:47 PM

Oh, now that is irritating.

Posted by: SubRosa Feb 23 2016, 04:30 PM

Kotor 1 is getting a http://www.geek.com/games/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-being-remade-by-fans-using-unreal-engine-4-1647677/! A team of modders/indie developers is working on recreating the entire game using the Unreal 4 engine. You will still need to own the original game, as it uses the sound and music from it. Hopefully it won't get shut down by EA and Disney. Because the screens from it look really cool.

Posted by: Destri Melarg Feb 24 2016, 12:55 AM

I saw something about this the other day. I applaud the people over at Apeiron for doing what Disney and EA should have been doing once they got their paws on the franchise. Unfortunately I don't think this will ever be released. An extremely popular game with a rabid global audience gets an update and neither Disney nor EA sees a profit from it? Not going to happen... too bad for us.

Posted by: mALX Feb 24 2016, 01:01 AM

The Unreal Engine is free to download; and they give out numerous tutorial vids free on how to program it; anyone up for making some cool games, I'll play them!

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Sep 30 2016, 08:10 PM

KotOR and The Sith Lords are quite possibly the best Star Wars games ever made. Khajiit loves them both; KotOR for the story and The Sith Lords for the little additions it added to KotOR's formula.

Posted by: Kiln Oct 6 2016, 11:59 AM

I wish they'd made KotOR 3 instead of an MMO. Disappointing really.

Posted by: Callidus Thorn Oct 6 2016, 02:57 PM

KotOR had the better story, but I prefer the characters of TSL. Though I wouldn't call the additions small. Prestige classes and the greatly expanded weapon upgrade system are just fantastic.



Such a wasted opportunity.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Oct 6 2016, 09:46 PM

Totally

Posted by: Uleni Athram Jan 4 2017, 01:58 PM

Don't know if you guys are aware but there's apparently a remake of KotoR being made rn. I think in the Unreal Engine? Saw some videos and found it really cool; Skyrim-esque, totally, what with a FPS view and all that jazz.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jan 23 2017, 03:23 AM

Yeah, Khajiit thinks it's being done by a bunch of modders. This one wonders if this is legal.

Posted by: SubRosa Jan 23 2017, 04:44 AM

I put a link to it about 8 or 9 posts up.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jan 23 2017, 05:03 AM

Embarrassed admission: Yeah, Khajiit actually clicked on it after seeing it up there today! It does look like Darth Sidious said "I will make it legal!", but this one did notice the article also said Disney could shut the project down.

Posted by: Uleni Athram Jan 23 2017, 06:33 PM

:0

*investigates*

*sees it to be true*

:0

...



Well damn, I need to pay more attention then LOLOLOLOL

Posted by: SubRosa Jul 4 2017, 01:25 AM

I modded the texture for one of the character heads, and created http://i.imgur.com/uoA7Uj7.jpg in Kotor 1.

I spent a few hours trying to figure out what she would wear. All the low-tier armors are the wrong colors. The only white or silver ones are the 5th and final tier of armors. But as it turns out, they all make your character look... larger. Too larger for even me.

Finally I found http://www.nexusmods.com/kotor/mods/403. One of the versions is white and black. But unfortunately that one only works on the Sentinel class. Persephone is a Soldier, who got a red and black version. So I copied the white and black version and replaced the soldier's version with it.

Now I am thinking that I could probably go to one of the existing low level armors and just retexture it to a white or silver color. But the Juhani outfit works for now. Persephone has not gotten far enough to where she can wear the Jedi Robes yet. So I am not sure what she will do at that point.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jul 4 2017, 01:44 AM

Yeah those low lvl armors are pretty fugly.

Posted by: Acadian Jul 4 2017, 04:15 PM

Yay, Persephone looks very much like the Force is with her!

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jul 4 2017, 05:00 PM

The Darkside of the force!

Posted by: SubRosa Jul 4 2017, 08:58 PM

The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jul 4 2017, 09:29 PM

Ah, Lord Sidious. Khajiit was hoping you'd turn up with some words of wisdom!

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jun 27 2018, 08:12 PM

Fired up KotOR on GOG for the first ever today and Khajiit must say that it plays atrociously. It’s constantly crashing.
Does anyone else have this game on GOG and actually have it running well?

Posted by: SubRosa Jun 27 2018, 09:57 PM

I have the Gog versions of both Kotor I and II, and never had any crashes with either.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jun 27 2018, 10:08 PM

What OS are you running?

Posted by: SubRosa Jun 28 2018, 12:35 AM

Windows 7. I also use Flawless Widescreen to run it in 1920 x 1080. That can be a pain to get to work. But the actual game itself has always run fine for me, without having to do any tweaking.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jun 28 2018, 12:52 AM

Well, Khajiit’s interwebz was down today and he hasn’t actually clicked on the KotOR section of the Galaxy library since he downloaded it a while ago, so it’s possible the game just needs an update. We found some other tricks to try if that ends up not being the case.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jun 28 2018, 07:38 AM

Ok so there wasn’t an update for it but Khajiit did alter the compatibility settings and it seems to be more stable so far. Fingers crossed.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jun 29 2018, 05:45 AM

Is there a way to toggle the UI in KotOR?

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jun 29 2018, 10:01 PM

Well anyway, Khajiit got Universal Widescreen working for his machine so now we’ve got KotOR running well in widescreen. Will post some pics for our new character later.

Posted by: SubRosa Jun 29 2018, 11:01 PM

There is, but I forget what it is. I think it is CTRL + something. Or it could be Alt + something.

Posted by: Crimson Paladin Aug 20 2018, 05:48 AM

I've been playing the Restored Content Mod for KotOR II. I also used KotOR Tool to add the Disguise effect to Mandalorian armors like KotOR I had. The lack of anything that actually covered your head in the game was a massive annoyance, and when I later played KotOR I for the first time and realized that armors could support disguise effects, I was determined to tackle this limitation.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 2 2020, 09:09 PM

Started a new character today. Xia Zheng, female scoundrel. Currently in the cantina on Taris about to brush off her pazak skills!

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 2 2020, 09:18 PM

Cool! I have never done a Scoundrel/Jedi Councilor. I usually do the Scout/Sentinel, and have only done the Soldier/Guardian a few times.

My first play through I did as an Asian character. I forget her name now. https://i.imgur.com/FcW8Bae.jpg Sadly, I do not have any of her saves. That was multiple computers ago. She was a dual wielding Sentinel, and wore the Xia Terashi armor.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 2 2020, 09:34 PM

I believe your character in the pic is using the same face my new character has, lol. Are you running mods in that pic?

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 2 2020, 10:00 PM

I have a ton of mods. Probably everything on the Kotor Nexus. Her armor also came with the short saber. Plus I have a mod that allows you more lightsaber color choices. I can't remember if the armor Carth is wearing is vanilla or modded. I think it might be a vanilla resource someone jazzed up with the glowing lights. I have a version of it for KOTOR 2 that the Zabrak engineer can wear, which really makes him awesome.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 2 2020, 10:06 PM

Cool. I saw the list on the very first post in this topic so I’ll check some out. The outfits are just ugly in this game, lol

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 3 2020, 03:09 AM

I just found https://www.nexusmods.com/kotor/mods/1331 on the Kotor Nexus page. It is something new since the last time I played the game. The change to the robes looks good.

Looking through the recent mods, there has been a lot of high definition texture mods that have been added in the last 6 or 7 months. Some of them are insanely huge.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 3 2020, 03:50 AM

Ooo thanks I’ll definitely check these out!

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 7 2020, 11:35 AM

So I downloaded a bunch of mods, most of which aim to make the game look a bit better. Now I’m tweaking some things and haven’t really gotten into actually playing the game yet (restarted with Xia Zheng). Here’s a couple of pics:

https://i.imgur.com/A90I5Ov.jpg She is wearing a combat suit, to which I have given a new greyscale color scheme using Gimp. You can’t tell much about her face but I edited that too to be a little more to my liking.

https://i.imgur.com/UEMYx15.jpg Also wearing the combat suit.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 7 2020, 06:12 PM

Neat, I recognize the mod you are using for the red Twilek. I don't recognize the one you are using for Xia though. Which one is that? I does not look vanilla.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 7 2020, 08:08 PM

Xia is special! First I used https://www.nexusmods.com/kotor/mods/1145to bring all of the NPC’s and PC heads up to “HD” quality. Then I altered Xia’s face in Gimp to be a bit more to my liking, specifically I darkened the color of her hair and the ribbon she wears in it, and changed the color of her lipstick to a red wine color to match the ribbon. Oh, and I also changed her eye color to a light grey.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 7 2020, 10:53 PM

You inspired me to spend the last 2 hours modding January into Kotor.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 8 2020, 05:06 AM

Khajiit is happy to be of service!

On a note unrelated to superficial improvements, Xia ran into a horrible dialogue bug which makes it so that the NPCs’ voices will not be audible and their dialogue skips to when you respond to what they are saying. This prompted me to download https://www.nexusmods.com/kotor/mods/75 in hopes of eliminating the issue.

*edit* urrrgh, looks like the above mod won’t fix the issue as it’s a common problem with the game engine that restarting the game will fix.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 8 2020, 10:47 PM

https://i.imgur.com/i6m2xHe.jpg

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 8 2020, 11:19 PM

She looks like Mad Max Xia!

BTW, since you are doing her as a Scoundrel, are you using the Sniper Shot feat? I tried it briefly a few times, and it seemed really underwhelming. I would typically only hit and do 1 or 2 points of damage, with a blaster rifle. But it seemed like the way to go for Scoundrel, since it can stun people, and they get sneak attack damage on stunned opponents.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 9 2020, 12:06 AM

I have been using it but not to any great affect. I think Xia’s blaster skill just isn’t good enough. I’ve never seen it actually stun someone, usually it just takes a slightly larger chunk of health from the enemy when it hits.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 9 2020, 01:33 AM

I am thinking for ranged weapons you are probably better off using either the ranged version of Power Attack, or the ranged version of Flurry. I forget the names, but they do the same things. Then later on once you Jedi up you will probably be using either a Lightsaber or force powers, and the gun stuff won't matter.

Most of my characters just skip using a blaster at all, and go straight to using a melee weapon. The Melee feats work with lightsabers, so they are still useful in the later game. I have had a lot of success with dual wielding and Flurry. You end up with 4 attacks a turn.



Edit: I did some looking at blaster builds. https://www.reddit.com/r/kotor/comments/8bhrb2/how_can_i_do_a_blaster_build/. Plus another https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/920194-star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-ii-the-sith-lords/43396873.

One thing worth noting is that the force speed powers don't improve Sniper Shot or Power Shot. Rapid Shot does. So keep that in mind if you are using the Speed powers.

Also, if you are playing a Scoundrel (and so you have Sneak Attack), the Force Stun and Insanity are powers that will stun your opponents, and give you a Sneak Attack.

It looks like Sniper Shot really is not worth it. Even when looking at calculations of average damage over time, it comes up short compared to Rapid Shot or Power Shot.



I also learned this handy tip for Scoundrels https://deadlystream.com/topic/3837-builds-that-you-use/
The sneak attack modifier (to your chance to hit and damage inflicted, depending on the feat level) is automatically activated by the game when one of these situations occurs: the hostile NPC you're targeting is either stunned, isn't in combat with you yet, or it's attacking someone else.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 9 2020, 03:47 AM

Those were interesting reads! Carth is a freakin’ madman with those dual pistols in the early game so I played around earlier with having Carth draw aggro while Xia flank attacks with dual vibroblades. Seemed to be fairly solid. So yeah I think I’m definitely going to go with power attack and flurry which will come in handy when I get a lightsaber/lightsabers.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 9 2020, 03:52 AM

I noticed that about Carth too! He's a beast with dual pistols. The devs were kind to give him to us as a starting companion. Plus he has a great voice actor, and a really interesting back story. He's probably my favorite NPC in Kotor 1 (though it has been a while, so I don't remember the others much, aside from Bastila).

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 9 2020, 04:23 AM

Yeah the others are hit or miss. I had forgotten how annoying Bastila is at the beginning, but as the first Jedi member of the party, she makes a big impression. Mission is a bit too “too cool for school” for my liking. Even Zaalbar isn’t safe from being made fun of! Speaking of “Big Z”, he’s strong and tough, but not very memorable. The other 2 Jedi are kinda “meh”. Canderous is ok. Then there is HK-47. I think he’s very amusing with his crazy dialogue! There is that other droid companion but I think I only use it on that one mission you need him for.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 10 2020, 05:33 AM

@Subbie:
I’ve been playing through Taris and just ended after Bastila joins the party. I ran through the undercity with Carth and Mission until we picked up Zaalbar. The combo of running in with Carth while the two scoundrels blasted the rakghouls attacking him worked really well. When Zaalbar joined, I noticed he is good with melee weapons right out the gate so I had him join Xia and Mission. This combo is reaaally strong. I was even able to get many stuns with the sniper shots from both Xia and Mission. The Vulker base fell very fast. Oh, and for Xia I used a blaster rifle the whole time. I think even with one level of two handed fighting the penalty still makes it ineffective. I didn’t pick any extra combat feats. I’ll probably just wait to do that when I get lightsabers.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 10 2020, 06:57 AM

That is interesting. So it looks like the secret to the scoundrel is those double-teaming tactics.

The Secret to the Scoundrel sounds like a great title...

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 10 2020, 07:35 AM

Yeah Xia seemingly can’t take a lot of abuse; I guess that’s reasonable as a scoundrel isn’t supposed to be a hardened frontline fighter. I’m a bit nervous about taking her into the dueling ring, which is like the only side content we have left on Taris (and the bounty hunter line by extension). May not, but I sure would like to get the bounty for Bendak and his blaster.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 22 2020, 12:36 AM

So after a break and some restarts, Xia is now undertaking Jedi training. We made a save game right before talking to Dorak about our lightsaber crystal, so we aren’t stuck in a chosen class. Now I’m having fun running around Dantooine, trying out the different Jedi classes. I’ve messed around with Consular and Sentinel so now we are about to try Guardian, which I’ve read can be really interesting with Scoundrel as a base. Consular has performed better so far, which I guess is to be expected since it was designed to be the natural choice for Scoundrel players.

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 22 2020, 01:42 AM

My ex Jaelyn (who got me into playing Kotor) used to love the Scoundrel/Consular characters. There was always a lot of lightning in her games.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 22 2020, 02:16 AM

The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... fun!

Posted by: SubRosa Apr 22 2020, 03:48 AM

I think she always ended up playing a Dark Sider.

I usually played Sentinels, because they had a good balance of feats and force powers, and decent access to skills. A few years ago I learned how to mod the game, and made all the skills Class Skills. After that I tried playing a Guardian, and I had a blast! I love their class leap ability. I don't think there is any distance restriction. You don't need a ranged attack. It is just bam! and you are right in the bad guy's faces from across the map.

When I get to playing it with January, that will probably be her class. With lightning. At least I think you can still use force lightning with a Light Side character. I think it just costs more to use?

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Apr 22 2020, 05:20 AM

Yeah! With Scoundrel, the jump attack counts as sneak attack!!! That’s one reason why I’m curious to play as a Scoundrel/Guardian.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit May 5 2020, 06:04 PM

So I got KotOR II yesterday from GOG during the May the 4th sale. I cannot get the Universal Widescreen patcher to work! I followed basically the same procedure I did for KotOR I but I don’t get an option to change the resolution to 1920x1080 in the game options. Also, the .ini edit won’t stay at 1920x1080, it keeps changing it back to whatever the stock highest setting is.

Posted by: SubRosa May 5 2020, 06:41 PM

Did you also copy the Widescreen UI Fix to your override folder? It probably won't work without that.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit May 5 2020, 06:54 PM

Yep. That’s also part of the process for KotOR I.

I’ll keep researching and playing with it to see if I can get it fixed.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit May 5 2020, 10:14 PM

Found https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pSiVC92dJHI so I’ll see if it helps my situation after I get home from work.

*Edit: Update*
And of course it did not help at all.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit May 6 2020, 05:49 PM

UPDATE:

Damnit!! Curse my ADD!!! I was putting in 1290 instead of 1920!!! It works fine now!

Posted by: SubRosa May 6 2020, 07:43 PM

So, an ID10T error then...

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit May 6 2020, 08:42 PM

Lol exactly

Posted by: SubRosa Jun 2 2020, 02:31 AM

So how has the Kotoring been going? I'd like to hear more about your experiments with various classes and how they worked out. Especially the Scoundrel/Guardian.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jun 2 2020, 06:08 AM

Wall o’text incoming!!

Lol, well, in KotOR, I’m currently playing a mod that lets you start off as one of the Jedi classes right when you wake up on the Endar Spire. I don’t know if you are familiar with it, but the way it works is kinda wonky. When you start the game you pick Soldier, Scout, or Scoundrel as usual. Then when you wake up, you immediately pick a Jedi class. You are technically an “apprentice” at that point and when you get to Dantooine you undergo your Padawan training like you normally would. Here though, you could change your Jedi class if you wanted to, which could make for some interesting multiclasses. I decided to play through as a Scoundrel1/Sentinel. Taris was ridiculously easy (I didn’t use lightsabers until after Bastilla joined our squad to role play trying to keep as low a profile as possible), as was Dantooine. We breezed through the first part of Tatooine and are currently in the Eastern Dune Sea about to do the stuff there. It’s kinda good that I’m breezing through the game because I’m wanting to play a Twi’lek Exile in KotOR 2 (a Twi’lek in KotOR 1 doesn’t make sense because I would imagine it would be difficult to cram those head tails into a Mandalorian helmet ), and also my attention has been pulled away to BATTLETECH as I’m trying out a mod that advances the timeline to 3062 and let’s you play with Clan mechs and technology!!

I will say I settled on Scoundrel 5/Sentinel 15 before deciding to try this mod. The Sentinel gives you the most skill points of any Jedi class which I want in order to increase both persuasion and Repair for the HK stuff. It also has a good balance between hp and feats, and force points and powers, which I know you are already well aware of. I’m trying to maintain a neutral or “Grey” alignment. I strongly considered Scoundrel 7/ Guardian 13, but decided against it since I wasn’t going for a Darkside alignment (you get a melee damage bonus for being all the way Darkside). 7 in scoundrel allows for strong Scoundrel’s Luck and Sneak Attack. Guardian is light on force points and powers but gives you more health, feats, and gives you the jump attack that takes advantage of your sneak attack bonus. It’s fun jumping around the battlefield like some kind of brutal grasshopper!

Posted by: SubRosa Jun 2 2020, 07:20 AM

I have seen that Jedi from the start mod. But I never tried it. It sounds too overpowered. I mean, Carth by himself could probably clear out all of Taris. With a Jedi along for the ride...

Whenever I play it again, I might try the Scoundrel/Guardian. I read about it some more today.

So what are you doing for your weapons and attack powers? Are you still doing dual blades and Power Attack or Flurry?

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jun 2 2020, 02:12 PM

Yeah I’m currently doing dual sabers, one regular and one short (orange and silver, respectively . I’ll probably go all silver as soon as (if) I get another silver crystal.), with all 3 two handed feats. Primarily using flurry for the extra attack, and for force powers I’m focusing on buffs, while the other Jedi set up stuns which I can capitalize on with sneak attack.

Posted by: SubRosa Jun 2 2020, 04:58 PM

Two sabers + Flurry + Force Speed = Yikes!

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Jun 2 2020, 08:43 PM

Indeed!

Posted by: SubRosa Jun 17 2020, 03:08 AM

Okay, I found an update to running Kotor 1 at high resolution. Make a backup copy of your Swkotor.exe file. Download the https://deadlystream.com/files/file/1159-kotor-high-resolution-menus/. Then copy the 3 hires_patcher files to your main Kotor folder. Run the bat file. It will ask you four questions, such as the width, height, etc... that you want. Then go back to the file you downloaded, and navigate to the folder of the screen size you want. They will first be in ratios like 16-9, and so on. Drill down until you find the one you want. Then copy the files over to your Kotor\Override folder. Done! The menus in the game will look really big. But the hud will be visible in gameplay.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Aug 17 2020, 02:26 AM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ign.com/articles/kotor-3-why-it-should-happen-now%3famp=1 Personally, I think that ship has jumped to hyperspace, but who knows? I honestly didn’t think we’d get a sequel to VtM:B.

Posted by: SubRosa Aug 17 2020, 11:53 PM

The world has been ready for Kotor 3 for 15 years. So I don't think there will ever be a sequel either. Especially not with EA making all the Star Wars games.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Aug 18 2020, 12:35 AM

I’m not sure that’s as important as the House of Mouse being overly protective of the franchise. EA could easily put BioWare to work on a new KotOR, but Disney would need to sign off on it, which they’ve shown no interest in doing.

Posted by: SubRosa Aug 20 2020, 12:07 AM

I found a https://deadlystream.com/files/file/1303-tor-ports-kira-carsen-female-player-head-for-k1/.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Aug 20 2020, 12:08 AM

Ooo I like it!

Posted by: Crimson Paladin Aug 26 2020, 07:24 AM

I always mod the games so some of the armor has the "disguise" effect so I can appear as a helmeted Mandalorian or Sith Trooper instead of those dopey metallic form-fitting armors. It breaks a few small things in the game like changing in and out of enviro-suits and anything that requires the game have access to your character's face, but those minor inconveniences are worth it to me.

Posted by: SubRosa Oct 26 2020, 12:02 AM

I created January for Kotor 1 a while ago, using the PFHC01 head as a base, mainly because it has a ponytail. I have not been able to port it over to Kotor 2 until now. I just found https://deadlystream.com/files/file/1392-effixians-k1-to-k2-heads/. It ports over two of the Kotor 1 heads to Kotor 2, including the one I was using. So I replaced its textures with my January textures, and now I have Jan in both games.

I just have to get around to actually playing them...

Posted by: SubRosa Oct 30 2020, 01:44 AM

I started playing some Kotor. I also wanted to experiment, so I created a Scoundrel with the intent to go Guardian later, with a twin sword/saber + Flurry idea. I saw some builds online for doing that, so it looked like it would work. Especially with using the Guardian's force jump to instantly engage and make a sneak attack. It worked a lot better than I expected in the tutorial. But I did not go beyond the start of Taris.

Then I started a game with January as a Scout, with the plan to go to Guardian later. I did not do her as the Scoundrel, because that is just not her. I got to Taris, and the game froze when trying to take the elevator to the Undercity. No matter how many reloads, I locked up there.

After trying a bunch of suggested fixes for crashes in the Undercity (like turning off Grass and Frame Buffer Effects), I eventually bit the bullet and just reinstalled the game. It worked! I was able to get into the Undercity.

But then I could not get it to work in Widescreen. I tried using the KotOR High Resolution Menus 1.4. mod that I was using before, but it either would not take. Or I would start to a bunch of blank menus. After a few hours of banging my head against a brick wall, I did come upon one method that it working, so far.

I download the latest version of https://www.flawlesswidescreen.org/. I used the x86 version. Run that and select the Kotor 1 profile. Then start Kotor 1, go to the graphics options, and 1920 x 1080 will be there for you to change to.

You only have to change the graphics options once. But you do have to start Flawless Widescreen every time, before you start Kotor. It is a bit more convenient than the old way of using Flawless Widescreen however.

So now I just have to reinstall all my mods, especially the one for January's head. Then hopefully I can get back to playing.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Oct 30 2020, 04:01 AM

Yeah, if you recall, I had a heck of a time getting these games to work in widescreen. I’m currently using the Universal Widescreen method and it was working fine last I checked.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 2 2020, 02:27 AM

Ok, I found how to take screenshots without the hud.

Go to your Kotor folder and open the swkotor.ini file.

Find the
[Game Options]

If they are not here, add the following to lines, or if they are there, change them like so:
GUIsInScreenShot=0
EnableScreenShot=1

Using PrintScreen will put a screen shot in your Kotor folder, without the game hud.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 9 2020, 08:19 AM

https://i.imgur.com/zuZE7yw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5jDY2Mf.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/480xDFA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ZQBLZbO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/iyzpSEQ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/eeQW0CF.jpg

Posted by: Acadian Nov 10 2020, 10:08 PM

So are there deathclaws in KOTOR? They really get around. Looks like Jan's up to some universe saving!

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Nov 11 2020, 05:05 PM

*Adjusts glasses* Ahem... actually that is a Rancor, not a Deathclaw.


So Subbie, how are you playing January in KotOR? Is she, in fact, ? Or is everybody else deluded and she is just January and having strange dreams?

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 11 2020, 06:55 PM

So what you are saying is that it is a Deathclaw...


I don't think January is really sure herself. I have an idea that maybe in the distant future of the Stormcrow Fiction - maybe Season 3 or 4 - January will use the sanctum in the Witch House to accidentally go on a romp across time and alternate universes. Some of those places will include the fiction that she writes. Some will be real places (I can definitely see her having a Viking adventure in the 800s or 900s). When it is all over, she will be left wondering if any of it was real, or if she imagined it all.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Nov 12 2020, 01:46 AM

Precisely! Wait...


Interesting! That last bit sounds a little like Sucker Punch, minus the horrific abuse and mental illness.

Posted by: SubRosa Nov 12 2020, 03:55 AM

One of my favorite Magnum PI episodes was one were Magnum has this weird dream where he goes back in time. He is working on a case that is connected to the one he is on in the waking world, and all his friends are back in time as well. He cracks the case in the dream, but gets killed. He wakes up, goes to the place his dream self died, and finds the evidence that he hid there in the dream. With it he cracks the case in reality. Then at the end when he is sure it was all just a dream after all, he finds an old Tigers hat from the 30s in his car (he had been wearing it in his dream).

So I would like to do something like that someday, where maybe it really happened, maybe it did not, and maybe the experience itself is all that really matters in the end. She would get a lot of experience points doing it after all. I could see her learning things like sword fighting, and even just general outdoor survival camping stuff, and still know it all when she comes back.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Nov 12 2020, 04:19 AM

The last bit sounds like the Matrix!
Person 1: *Wakes up from dream* “I know wilderness survival.”
Person 2: *leans forward* “Show me.”

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 15 2020, 03:48 AM

https://i.imgur.com/lHHJwq4.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1lofLNK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/q2mnu7j.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/WcprLBk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kqz6Ky3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hgnUEIo.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jYBkK4n.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uVNSfBF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/C99ARp9.jpg

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Dec 15 2020, 02:59 PM

Looks like Jan’s adventures from a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away have come to an end...



...or have they?

Posted by: Acadian Dec 15 2020, 09:24 PM

Wow! Jan went looking for Nemo and found him!

Light sabers and flying mantas, what’s this world coming to?

Love the wooki in the last shot!

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 16 2020, 01:09 AM

https://i.imgur.com/U2RxqF3.jpg

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Dec 16 2020, 01:32 AM

Neat! So how did it turn out with Jan being you know who? Is she? Isn’t she? How are you tying her story to that of The Exile?

Posted by: SubRosa Dec 16 2020, 02:34 AM

Jan did not go dark side, if that is what you mean. She's not Revan. At least not anymore. I am kind of seeing it now as something like in Quantum Leap, where she is taking the place of one person after another in the universe, or an alternate universe.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Dec 16 2020, 02:51 AM

Nah I figured Jan wouldn’t go dark side. I like the idea of Jan taking the place of a person in different universes.

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit Dec 4 2021, 04:41 PM

Playing KotOR 1 on the Switch as a scoundrel/sentinel. Made to the part on Manaan where “Darth” Bitc- er, I mean Bandon shows up. The fight starts and I queue up Master Valor followed by horror on Jolee, master speed followed by flurry on my character, and master speed followed by power attack on Juhani. After unpausing it, my crew proceed to take “Darth” Bandon’s health almost all the way down and all three of the dark Jedi are immobilized with horror. The entire fight lasted a few seconds. So ridiculous!!

Posted by: TheCheshireKhajiit May 6 2023, 07:59 PM

Peragus!