Hardware and Software Discussion, For bragging about your PC, or if your 'puter is misbehaving. Options

[Thomas Kaira]

Due to some recent hardware woes being experienced here, I've decided it might be time to open a thread dedicated to PC Hardware. If you have questions about what to buy, are having system problems, or just want to brag about your PC, all that is most welcome here.

To begin, a response to mALX's recent BSOD issues:

PFN_LIST_CORRUPT means that something (usually a hardware driver) is screwing around with the Page Frame Database (which in layman's terms is how Windows keeps track of paged memory, or memory being used by applications, drivers, etc.). Given your experiences, it sounds like perhaps your GPU drivers are what's causing the breakdowns.

Problem is, the drivers you have are completely compatible with your card, so I am inclined to believe that this may be a warning sign that your GPU is dying.

Have you been having any other problems related to your GPU, like overheating?

[mALX]

Due to some recent hardware woes being experienced here, I've decided it might be time to open a thread dedicated to PC Hardware. If you have questions about what to buy, are having system problems, or just want to brag about your PC, all that is most welcome here.

To begin, a response to mALX's recent BSOD issues:

PFN_LIST_CORRUPT means that something (usually a hardware driver) is screwing around with the Page Frame Database (which in layman's terms is how Windows keeps track of paged memory, or memory being used by applications, drivers, etc.). Given your experiences, it sounds like perhaps your GPU drivers are what's causing the breakdowns.

Problem is, the drivers you have are completely compatible with your card, so I am inclined to believe that this may be a warning sign that your GPU is dying.

Have you been having any other problems related to your GPU, like overheating?

Yes. I had an enormous extra fan installed and a powerful motor to run it, and lately it has been running as fast as it will go periodically - even when no pages are open with lots of colors on them.

[TheOtherRick]

Yes. I had an enormous extra fan installed and a powerful motor to run it, and lately it has been running as fast as it will go periodically - even when no pages are open with lots of colors on them.

I'll definitely let TK do the tech talk, but I have a layman's solution to overheating, and I won't say it is the best one by any means.

We have a computer here that had the same overheating problem. We wound up taking a side panel off the case and have had no overheating problems since then. This requires having some canned air handy at all times, to keep the dust off. We blow it out every morning before we turn it on.

[mALX]

Yes. I had an enormous extra fan installed and a powerful motor to run it, and lately it has been running as fast as it will go periodically - even when no pages are open with lots of colors on them.

I'll definitely let TK do the tech talk, but I have a layman's solution to overheating, and I won't say it is the best one by any means.

We have a computer here that had the same overheating problem. We wound up taking a side panel off the case and have had no overheating problems since then. This requires having some canned air handy at all times, to keep the dust off. We blow it out every morning before we turn it on.

I am positive it needs to be cleaned inside, we live in a dustbowl - several quarry's in the area, farmland, etc.

I upgraded the graphics card, the power supply, and the fan when I bought it.

[Thomas Kaira]

Yes. I had an enormous extra fan installed and a powerful motor to run it, and lately it has been running as fast as it will go periodically - even when no pages are open with lots of colors on them.

I'll definitely let TK do the tech talk, but I have a layman's solution to overheating, and I won't say it is the best one by any means.

We have a computer here that had the same overheating problem. We wound up taking a side panel off the case and have had no overheating problems since then. This requires having some canned air handy at all times, to keep the dust off. We blow it out every morning before we turn it on.

I do this all the time. It's a great quick-n-dirty way to keep your PC cool. Downside is, as you said, it requires more frequent dusting to do this, but Compressed Air dusters are cheap.

Yes. I had an enormous extra fan installed and a powerful motor to run it, and lately it has been running as fast as it will go periodically - even when no pages are open with lots of colors on them.

I'll definitely let TK do the tech talk, but I have a layman's solution to overheating, and I won't say it is the best one by any means.

We have a computer here that had the same overheating problem. We wound up taking a side panel off the case and have had no overheating problems since then. This requires having some canned air handy at all times, to keep the dust off. We blow it out every morning before we turn it on.

I am positive it needs to be cleaned inside, we live in a dustbowl - several quarry's in the area, farmland, etc.

I upgraded the graphics card, the power supply, and the fan when I bought it.

Yeah, you may want to look into getting a new GPU soon. Try going for the GeForce 9 series if you are on a budget, or look for my card model (8800GT). My card is quite good, and you can get it for very cheap nowadays.

[mALX]

Yes. I had an enormous extra fan installed and a powerful motor to run it, and lately it has been running as fast as it will go periodically - even when no pages are open with lots of colors on them.

I'll definitely let TK do the tech talk, but I have a layman's solution to overheating, and I won't say it is the best one by any means.

We have a computer here that had the same overheating problem. We wound up taking a side panel off the case and have had no overheating problems since then. This requires having some canned air handy at all times, to keep the dust off. We blow it out every morning before we turn it on.

I do this all the time. It's a great quick-n-dirty way to keep your PC cool. Downside is, as you said, it requires more frequent dusting to do this, but Compressed Air dusters are cheap.

Yes. I had an enormous extra fan installed and a powerful motor to run it, and lately it has been running as fast as it will go periodically - even when no pages are open with lots of colors on them.

I'll definitely let TK do the tech talk, but I have a layman's solution to overheating, and I won't say it is the best one by any means.

We have a computer here that had the same overheating problem. We wound up taking a side panel off the case and have had no overheating problems since then. This requires having some canned air handy at all times, to keep the dust off. We blow it out every morning before we turn it on.

I am positive it needs to be cleaned inside, we live in a dustbowl - several quarry's in the area, farmland, etc.

I upgraded the graphics card, the power supply, and the fan when I bought it.

Yeah, you may want to look into getting a new GPU soon. Try going for the GeForce 9 series if you are on a budget, or look for my card model (8800GT). My card is quite good, and you can get it for very cheap nowadays.

I think it has the NVidia GForce 8600 GT right now, just two years old. I only play Oblivion at half graphics - would that burn it out so soon? GAAAAH! I wonder if the extended warranty I bought is still active?

[Thomas Kaira]

Taken from the Wiki on the 8 series:

Some chips of the GeForce 8 series (concretely those from the G84 and G86 series) may suffer from an overheating problem.

I really hate to say it, but your card might be defective. Overheating GPUs can cause a slew of problems and BSODs. That's just speculation, but that's where all the evidence I've seen thus far is pointing. If you are under extended warranty, make sure to let nVidia know about that.

This post has been edited by Thomas Kaira: Mar 14 2011, 07:23 AM

[TheOtherRick]

If you have to replace the GPU, and you are not opposed to ATI...Might I suggest ATI Radeon 5770HD. You can get one from Newegg.com for around $130-$160. It is the card I am using and I can run Oblivion and Fallout 3 at max settings with no issues. It requires a power supply of 600W minimum.

This post has been edited by TheOtherRick: Mar 14 2011, 12:20 PM

[mALX]

Taken from the Wiki on the 8 series:

Some chips of the GeForce 8 series (concretely those from the G84 and G86 series) may suffer from an overheating problem.

I really hate to say it, but your card might be defective. Overheating GPUs can cause a slew of problems and BSODs. That's just speculation, but that's where all the evidence I've seen thus far is pointing. If you are under extended warranty, make sure to let nVidia know about that.

Thanks. I found the warranty paperwork, it is expired...bleah. I'm going to try to still bring it to the Geek Squad and hope they'll fix it even if it costs me, I don't know of any other PC fixing people around here.

Thank you so much TK, for looking up that info for me - I would have had no idea what to look for. You ROCK !!!!!

[mALX]

If you have to replace the GPU, and you are not opposed to ATI...Might I suggest ATI Radeon 5770HD. You can get one from Newegg.com for around $130-$160. It is the card I am using and I can run Oblivion and Fallout 3 at max settings with no issues. It requires a power supply of 600W minimum.

When I said my power supply I added was massive - I meant big looking and heavy to carry, not powerful.

I have only a 400W power supply. GAAAAH. I'm going to bring it to the Geek Squad and if they won't fix it I may need to get another PC tower. (hopefully something that will be compatable with the POS HP monitor - and the printer (which I actually like except it goes through cartriges like a termite on Skooma. It's called the "all-in-one because it uses all of the cartridge up in one printing session).

[Thomas Kaira]

A power supply will also degenerate over time and provide less power. If your power supply is 3 years old, for example, it may only be capable of providing 380 Watts (rough estimate).

My computer is equipped with a 1000 Watt supply to keep this from being a problem. If you do need to get a new GPU, I would also suggest upgrading to something around a 600 Watt PSU. That doesn't require a whole new PC, you just need to unplug and replug everything the PSU is providing for.

However, there is one outlying question I need answered: Is your motherboard PCI-Express 2.0 compliant? If not, then you are really looking at a new PC. You cannot buy a decent GPU without PCI-E 2.0 compliancy nowadays. *looks it up* I just looked it up, and the 8600GT is only PCI-E 1.0 compatible. Do make sure you have 2.0 available, because a MoBo upgrade is equivalent to a full system upgrade.

[mALX]

A power supply will also degenerate over time and provide less power. If your power supply is 3 years old, for example, it may only be capable of providing 380 Watts (rough estimate).

My computer is equipped with a 1000 Watt supply to keep this from being a problem. If you do need to get a new GPU, I would also suggest upgrading to something around a 600 Watt PSU. That doesn't require a whole new PC, you just need to unplug and replug everything the PSU is providing for.

However, there is one outlying question I need answered: Is your motherboard PCI-Express 2.0 compliant? If not, then you are really looking at a new PC. You cannot buy a decent GPU without PCI-E 2.0 compliancy nowadays. *looks it up* I just looked it up, and the 8600GT is only PCI-E 1.0 compatible. Do make sure you have 2.0 available, because a MoBo upgrade is equivalent to a full system upgrade.

I don't know how to find out, device manager? Anyway, it is in the shop now. Canned message below:

Just got back from the Geek Squad, had to leave it at the shop $255. just to diagnose the problem and sell me an external hard drive to copy files to so they don't lose them. (however, I have to sign a waiver saying if they lose my files I am USCWAP.

Then I bought a laptop, thinking they would nicely give me a copy of my documents so I'd have something to do while they have my pc - that was a fail.

So right now I am on my HUNDRED YEAR OLD HP that I had to keep reformating every couple days. The monitor is round, the pc is very slow. The mouse doesn't have a wheel on it. I can't read anything on this monitor. Too tired to set up the laptop yet.

I'm going to eat something and will get back on here later.




@ Rick -

When I said my power supply I added was massive - I meant big looking and heavy to carry, not powerful.

I have only a 400W power supply. GAAAAH. I'm going to bring it to the Geek Squad and if they won't fix it I may need to get another PC tower. (hopefully something that will be compatable with the POS HP monitor - and the printer (which I actually like except it goes through cartriges like a termite on Skooma. It's called the "all-in-one because it uses all of the cartridge up in one printing session).

Uh, if it is the graphics card I may have a problem. TK said the mobo may be a POS that doesn't take good graphics cards - well, it is an HP, so I would almost bet it won't take the great ones. I think they were sqeezing all the life out of the [censored]er when they sold me the NVidia GForce 8600 GT and installed it - I did tell the guy when I bought it that I wanted to be able to play OBLIVION on it. Gaaah.

So now the SAME STORE just talked me into a laptop that is supposed to be able to play Oblivion, Fallout 3, and SKYRIM (did you know the requirements list is out? I have a copy of it!!) - It is an Asus
G73S - now that I am home and not being pressurized by the salesman I plan to look it up and see how much I was taken in this time. It does say "Republic of Gamers" on it, that is what sold me really - the salesman could have been a talking squirrel after that.

This post has been edited by mALX: Mar 14 2011, 11:26 PM

[Thomas Kaira]

Uh, if it is the graphics card I may have a problem. TK said the mobo may be a POS that doesn't take good graphics cards - well, it is an HP, so I would almost bet it won't take the great ones. I think they were sqeezing all the life out of the [censored]er when they sold me the NVidia GForce 8600 GT and installed it - I did tell the guy when I bought it that I wanted to be able to play OBLIVION on it. Gaaah.

Now hang on! I never said that your MoBo was terrible, I just said that it is rather important to have PCI-E 2.0 compliancy on a modern gaming machine (as well as 64bit, which I do not have). So long as it does, which it might )I don't know the ins and outs of PCI-E that much), it might be perfectly reasonable to think that a PCI-E slot could take both varieties. At least you have it!

As for the laptop, those are pretty difficult to game on, particularly because you don't have the same hardware flexibility as a desktop PC. Try cramming a GTX 460 into one of those little paving slabs! That card is as tall as some laptops are wide (minor exaggeration)!

This post has been edited by Thomas Kaira: Mar 14 2011, 11:36 PM

[TheOtherRick]

@ Rick -

When I said my power supply I added was massive - I meant big looking and heavy to carry, not powerful.

I have only a 400W power supply. GAAAAH. I'm going to bring it to the Geek Squad and if they won't fix it I may need to get another PC tower. (hopefully something that will be compatable with the POS HP monitor - and the printer (which I actually like except it goes through cartriges like a termite on Skooma. It's called the "all-in-one because it uses all of the cartridge up in one printing session).

Uh, if it is the graphics card I may have a problem. TK said the mobo may be a POS that doesn't take good graphics cards - well, it is an HP, so I would almost bet it won't take the great ones. I think they were sqeezing all the life out of the [censored]er when they sold me the NVidia GForce 8600 GT and installed it - I did tell the guy when I bought it that I wanted to be able to play OBLIVION on it. Gaaah.

So now the SAME STORE just talked me into a laptop that is supposed to be able to play Oblivion, Fallout 3, and SKYRIM (did you know the requirements list is out? I have a copy of it!!) - It is an Asus
G73S - now that I am home and not being pressurized by the salesman I plan to look it up and see how much I was taken in this time. It does say "Republic of Gamers" on it, that is what sold me really - the salesman could have been a talking squirrel after that.

mALX...please do some research before purchasing an "in store" computer. I bought the computer I am using right now from an online company. The bare bones price (no monitor, no software) was well under $1,000. However, that doesn't include shipping. I was a huge Best Buy fan forever and the fellow geeks over at the BSGF forums talked me out of there and into online buying. I am so glad they did.

Let me dig up my spec sheet and I will post exactly what you can get and for how much. This way TK (who obviously knows his chit) can look at it too. I will also post a link to the BSGF thread where this all happened for me, if I can find it.

This post has been edited by TheOtherRick: Mar 15 2011, 12:25 AM

[SubRosa]

As for the laptop, those are pretty difficult to game on, particularly because you don't have the same hardware flexibility as a desktop PC. Try cramming a GTX 460 into one of those little paving slabs! That card is as tall as some laptops are wide (minor exaggeration)!

I believe my GTX 580 is longer than most laptops, and probably weighs more too, and uses more power...

But yes, laptops are not ideal choices for gaming. You pay more and get less of everything, especially the ability to upgrade at a later date. Unless you absolutely have to tote your computer around with you to different locations (as I do at work, as I am Road Warrior), you should never buy one.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Mar 15 2011, 12:24 AM

[Thomas Kaira]

mALX...please do some research before purchasing an "in store" computer. I bought the computer I am using right now from an online company. The bare bones price (no monitor, no software) was well under $1,000. However, that doesn't include shipping. I was a huge Best Buy fan forever and the fellow geeks over at the BSGF forums talked me out of there and into online buying. I am so glad they did.

Let me dig up my spec sheet and I will post exactly what you can get and for how much. This way TK (who obviously knows his chit) can look at it too. I will also post a link to the BSGF thread where this all happened for me, if I can find it.

I must QFT here. ALWAYS buy your desktop PC custom-made. Alienware, Dell XPS, etc... all rubbish. You have no control over what goes into those machines, and you pay an extra shiny Septim for the brand name.

My PC was completely custom made by a local retailer. What exists inside it is being pushed to the absolute best it can be; absolutely nothing is holding my system's hardware back. You can't get the same by buying a pre-assembled tower. Who cares if you've got a glowy-eyed Gray on the front? What matters is what you have inside.

Make sure that you research everything you want to put into your PC. That is the bottom line.

This post has been edited by Thomas Kaira: Mar 15 2011, 12:50 AM

[mALX]

GAAAAH!!! It's too late, I already bought it ... BUT - I just played Oblivion at high graphics on it without a hitch, not one !!! My desktop with that upgraded graphics card and power system ran it at medium, when I tried to put it on high it stuttered the game - GAAAAH !!!! I am pretty excited about it (today anyway, lol).

OH !!!! And the tilde key works on the laptop - it never did on the PC, I had to get the "Ring of Console" on the PC !!! WOO HOO !!!!

Here is what it has:

Intel I7 2.0 Ghz
8 gig ram
1 gig dedicated to graphics
64 bit
Windows 7 Home Premium
NVidia GE Force GTX 460 M graphics card
2.0 Webcam
Intel WIFI Wimax6250
700 gig hard drive (7200 rpm)

[Thomas Kaira]

GAAAAH!!! It's too late, I already bought it ... BUT - I just played Oblivion at high graphics on it without a hitch, not one !!! My desktop with that upgraded graphics card and power system ran it at medium, when I tried to put it on high it stuttered the game - GAAAAH !!!! I am pretty excited about it (today anyway, lol).

OH !!!! And the tilde key works on the laptop - it never did on the PC, I had to get the "Ring of Console" on the PC !!! WOO HOO !!!!

Here is what it has:

Intel I7 2.0 Ghz
8 gig ram
1 gig dedicated to graphics
64 bit
Windows 7 Home Premium
NVidia GE Force GTX 460 M graphics card
2.0 Webcam
Intel WIFI Wimax6250
700 gig hard drive (7200 rpm)

But can it do THIS?





Glad to hear your laptop is working out okay!

[mALX]

GAAAAH!!! It's too late, I already bought it ... BUT - I just played Oblivion at high graphics on it without a hitch, not one !!! My desktop with that upgraded graphics card and power system ran it at medium, when I tried to put it on high it stuttered the game - GAAAAH !!!! I am pretty excited about it (today anyway, lol).

OH !!!! And the tilde key works on the laptop - it never did on the PC, I had to get the "Ring of Console" on the PC !!! WOO HOO !!!!

Here is what it has:

Intel I7 2.0 Ghz
8 gig ram
1 gig dedicated to graphics
64 bit
Windows 7 Home Premium
NVidia GE Force GTX 460 M graphics card
2.0 Webcam
Intel WIFI Wimax6250
700 gig hard drive (7200 rpm)

But can it do THIS?





Glad to hear your laptop is working out okay!

HOLY CRAP, TK !!! ROFL !!! - I haven't had any Oblivion gates open yet, I'll see how the framerates take a cut when they do. If it is too bad I'll drop the graphics down to medium. Can't wait to get some mods on my game though, the vanilla Maxical cat was ... vanilla.

It has a full keyboard, but when I pick up my PC I am thinking about getting a keyboard and mouse for it - all mine here are HP's and I don't want to curse my laptop by hooking them up, lol. If you have any particular gaming preference in keyboards and mice ... feel free to advise, otherwise I'll go with logitech.

[Thomas Kaira]

If its just basic stuff you're looking for, Logitech is the way to go. They make some pretty decent mice and keyboards that will last you a while.

Oh, and I always take a performance hit when near Oblivion Gates. I think it's because of that heat shimmer shader effect, it's a killer. Kinda like the water reflections. You can turn that effect off, but it will leave behind graphical artifacts (black squares), because it seems to be a hybrid shader/particle effect. Basically the shader gives the shimmer effect to the rendered scene behind those squares and fills them in. Without the shader, the squares don't get textured and are left black.

This post has been edited by Thomas Kaira: Mar 15 2011, 03:18 AM