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> The American Election, Who you votin' for/support?
DoomedOne
post Jun 24 2007, 09:01 AM
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To me the presidential election is like the super bowl. (By the way, how would you football fans feel out there if the superbowl was rigged?) I don't see it as the democrats vs the republicans though, I think that both parties actually use this nation's divide against itself as a tool to support their continual incumbancy. I look at is as candidates that are there for the purpose of helping the world vs candidates that are there to help themselves. And there are both kinds on either side. Well, the primaries are up so let's take a look at the competitors. I don't really know the republicans very well because to be honest almost all of them sound exactly the same to me (yes to torture, no to freedom) so my table for them is going to be incomplete, and I'll let a more conservative poster add information and then just edit it on later.

The Democrats

Dennis Kucinich - Probably the second most consistant voting record of all prospective candidates (behind Ron Paul). He made a statement not too long ago by attempting to get thermos Cheney impeached. When he was met with the sound of crickets he pulled out his lil pocket copy of the constitution stating, "I just wanted to let America know there's at least one person in congress that still stands for the constitution." As president he seems to be into funding higher education, ending the occupation of foreign territory, and some other good stuff. He also quite strongly believes in protecting our rights and privacy.

Barack Obama - Many people think he's a hardcore commie, but to the liberals out there, this is a gross misconception. He does not believe in ratifying our foreign policy to put an end to the constant onslaught on the impoverished world. He in fact believes Afghanistan was a just cause though Iraq wasn't, but he will continue to occupy foreign territory and police the world according to what he's said. He's pretty good when it comes to human rights and combating poverty though. He discovered after the 2004 election that a single hacker with a wifi connection could effectively change the voting results of entire precincts, and that to me is a negative, he doesn't really have a pair. He seems to be trying to hard to be complacent with middle america, afraid to step out and be controversial.

Mike Gravel - The only other democrat besides Kucinich that wants to ratify our foreign policy so we stop murdering millions of innocent people around the world.

Who else that matters? Oh yeah, Hilary Clinton. Screw her, she;s a big government candidate, she wants to raise taxes and isn't going to fix our foreign policy. If she's anything like her husband, human rights aren't about to get much better either. Like Obama, she seems to be trying to conform to what the mainstream media presents as the opinions of moderate Americans, and this is a pretty stupid mistake but unfortunately since it's not worth that decides elections, but money, that doesn't matter now does it?

I would mention John Edwards and the other guys... but it hardly seems worth it. These are the candidates that stood out to mee, the others are just parrots.

The Republicans

There are only two candidates here I've followed after the first republican debate because the others all seemed too fascist after that. Granted, since the republicans applauded to torture at the debate I guess their preaching to the right crowd, too bad that crowd only represents a third of the politically active nation at this point.

John McCain - He's very conservative, but a true conservative, not one that just uses the same language to further their own agenda. As a POW, he's been there, and he understand that the only thing that gives our POWs hope is that they know if our enemies are capture they will be cared for. As soon as that no longer becomes the case, they have no guarantee. In fact, above any other candidate he supports the military the most. Not the military industrial complex, but the actual soldiers and their well-being.

Ron Paul - This guy has the most consistant voting record in congress, by far. And it's not jsut consistant in what he believes, it's consistant to the original intent of the constitution, No nation building, no impeaching the rights and privacy of citizens. He is the only candidate with a pair to be honest, not even Kucinish is as courageous as he is, or as well composed. He tells the truth, that our illegal occuption of countries like Saudi Arabia provoked 9/11. This was kisconstrued by the mainstream media to make people think he said the iraq war invited those attacks. It is America's arrogance to whimfully inplace and remove leaders, start coups and give weapons to terrorists that invited the attakcs of 9/11. That's a fact, Osama bin Laden said it, he specifcally said he attacked us because we keep going over there and screwing with things. No one will admit it but him.

Here's the kicker on this guy, at first the mainstrewam media acted like he was a joke, but then he started getting too popular so what did they do? They silenced him. Maybe it's his hamster off approach to Israel's arrogance. Whatever the case, despite being the most demanded candidate in the primaries media outlet after media outlet claims he is simply a minor candidate. Every decision he has made in congress has reflected the philosophy of the founding fathers, it's only natural the fascists trying to vie control over this country would censor him.

So in conclusion, for the first election I have been old enough to vote in, I will be voting for a republican.

And please remeber everybody thinking of not voting, those who don't vote are no better off than those who can't vote.


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Ibis
post Jun 27 2007, 10:24 PM
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I'm Hillary all the way (since California didn't win the proposition to let Arnold run) and I'm saying it loud and proud at my new job 7-11, so I see a lot of ppl in a day. And if politics come up, as a veteran I ain't shy in stating my opinion.

We had to push our dying '86 Honda Civic off the highway in jammed rush hour traffic last late October right acrost from the 7-11 at the corner intersection of our condo complex. On my birthday early November I started working there. {So no more reator keys Pisces} ... it's a 24 hr 7-11 so no keys at all.

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And hate to say it, but I'll vote for JEB Bush before I'd ever vote for Obama. I don't want to be petty in pointing out that his middle name is hussein but c'mon = a Black President AND a Muslim?

Read: http://www.usvetdsp.com/dec06/obama_muslim.htm

I think you all might want to review Roman History. The Emperor feared his senators so much usurping his power that he made politicians of all his Hun, Visigoth, Vandal, etc. mercenary generals. And then who did take over and topple Rome? Ever wonder how those tribes toppled Rome so easily so fast? The Emperor had handed them the keys ... let's not do that to the Moslems and topple the American Empire. Please, what would John Lennon think?

sleep.gif




This post has been edited by Ibis: Jun 27 2007, 10:36 PM


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Dantrag
post Jun 28 2007, 05:06 AM
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A person's race and religion play a part in your election choice? I mean, that's your right, but I think it's on par with not voting for someone because you disagree with his hair-do. His religion and race really don't have much bearing on his political ability or alignment. (religion does to some extent, but religion is interpreted in so many ways, it's too difficult to tell...)

Anyway, I completely agree with your choice in Ron Paul, DoomedOne. It's pretty sad, but I actually hadn't heard of him before he showed up on the Colbert Report for an interview. I liked the things he said there, but being a comedy show, it was a little lacking, so I studied up - it looks like he'll be getting my first ever vote as well.


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stargelman
post Jun 28 2007, 06:27 PM
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Yeah Ibis, let's break out the torches and pitchforks!

First they attack America and the free world and then they want to be its president! Unbelievable!




On a more serious note, I'd like to mention my believe that way too much power is concentrated in the hands of too few in America. The president and the vice president have so much power it's just scary. I mean our system is far from perfect and our government still does a lot of things that are horribly horribly wrong, but at least it's not just single (moronic) person that can do that, it requires a consense of some sort by a group of morons. Putting this much power into the hands of just one person is just asking for trouble, imho.


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Ibis
post Jun 28 2007, 08:47 PM
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Disagreeing with his haircut? That'd be that'd be John Edwards right? Subtle how you slid that in, Dannie.

Yeh, well that's what they'll be issuing our boys next = pitchforks. Just don't want a president whose sympathetic or an enabler to IED attacks. Got enough legless/armless/quad at the VA already thanks. Now if he's got a good peace plan, I'm eager to hear it.

What is your take on the candidates views on illegal immigration status?


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stargelman
post Jun 29 2007, 08:04 AM
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QUOTE(Ibis @ Jun 28 2007, 09:47 PM) *

Just don't want a president whose sympathetic or an enabler to IED attacks.

You'll have to explain that to me.


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Ibis
post Jun 29 2007, 09:30 AM
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If I could only take you walking around any Veteran's Administration Clinic you'd not have to ask that question.

There are armor plated vehicles capable of being made that would shield our guys from most of the bone shatter and loss of limbs ... but so far the funding for it isn't considered neccessary.

And there was zilch planning for the wounded really. I mean did the admin actually really think we were just going to "shock and awe" and the enemy were going to fall down on their knees and worship Americans? Until that new center in Texas for parapalegic rehabilitation (can't remember the name) there was very faulty treatment for our Iraq vets. Everyone heard about the deplorable conditions at Walter Reed. That is our showcase hospital, how do you think conditions are at lesser hospitals?

Mottos used to be "No man left behind" ... "Always a Marine" ... "The Air Force always completes it's mission". This "Army of One" thing is a whole new war and I sense around the V.A. a definite new attitude that people are expendible. As long as the oil flows, the royal saudi families dine with the Texas oil barons - the foot soldiers don't matter so much.

An old veteran in an electic wheelchair kinda just summed it up for everyone at the VA clinic ... he was broken down by life, as much medicine and machine as man, gliding slowly along the polished floors wearing that ARMY OF ONE t-shirt in huge letters on his back. A rolling testament to the war.

I just don't want anymore politians who are going to give our country away to their rich buddies and foriegn interests ... and leave us vulnerable to something even worse than the Katrina disaster. American officers riding camel and horseback with our Bedouin allies whilst the Afgani's were stuffing their captive enemies into sealed rail cars and sealed metal drum containers and letting them die in the hot sun. Doesn't anyone read? I watched the Dem candidates tonight and I'm still with Hillary Clinton. Barak Obama just doesn't seem to be telling it all, if you know what I mean.

This post has been edited by Ibis: Jun 29 2007, 09:37 AM


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Dantrag
post Jun 29 2007, 04:55 PM
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I agree with many opinions expressed there; but you failed to mention Obama's role in it all.

He is actually one of the last people that would sell our country to foreign interests, if you asekd me. He actually divested over $180,000 worth of his own personal stock with ties to Sudan to protest the genocide going on in the Darfur region, and he urged others to do the same. If he's willing to do that with his own finances, I don't see why he wouldn't do the same with the country's.

Also, I don't know why I didn't mention this before, but Barack is not actually a Muslim. His father was raised Muslim, but was actually an atheist, and Barack himself actually became Christian.


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Ibis
post Jun 29 2007, 11:34 PM
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Yes but when he was up to 9 years old he was taught in the same branch of Islam school that the jihadist militants base themselves in. he belongs to an unapologetically African church congregation - which nothing wrong with that. I don't know ... for Blacks to feel sympathetic to Africa is understandable and Hispanics to the illegal immigrant issue. But what we need is someone who can bridge and unite everyone - not secularize. And I just don't know about electing a formerly Islamic president whose middle name is Hussein when we are fighting against some Moslem countries just like it would to have been weird to have a Japanese President after the bombing of Pearl Harbor or electing Arnold Schwarzenegger during Hitler's regime.

I did watch the Democratic debate last night and was somewhat impressed with Obama, mostly his calm and reserve. I would rank the Dem contenders this way Hillary first, Obama second and possibly John Edwards as a close third. Did that candidate from Alaska actually insult everyone else standing on the stage in his last 30 seconds of speech?



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Dantrag
post Jun 30 2007, 12:13 AM
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Well, by that same logic, George Washington was a bad President to have during the Revolution because he would be sympathetic to the British.

Also, What jihadist school did Obama attend? Never heard anything about that before. But, from what I do know, he lived in Indonesia for four years as a child, where such schools exist. He was out of them by the fifth grade. I'm sure he's matured a little past such things.

EDIT: And as an NC resident; dont let John Edwards fool you!

This post has been edited by Dantrag: Jun 30 2007, 12:14 AM


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gamer10
post Jun 30 2007, 04:13 AM
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I'm voting independent, thats right, I'm throwing away my vote. huh.gif

Actually, I'm far to young to vote. My opinions currently mean absolutely nothing to politicians.

However, I'm not interested in any of the politicians I've heard are running in the next election.

QUOTE(Ibis @ Jun 29 2007, 06:34 PM) *

Yes but when he was up to 9 years old he was taught in the same branch of Islam school that the jihadist militants base themselves in. he belongs to an unapologetically African church congregation - which nothing wrong with that. I don't know ... for Blacks to feel sympathetic to Africa is understandable and Hispanics to the illegal immigrant issue. But what we need is someone who can bridge and unite everyone - not secularize. And I just don't know about electing a formerly Islamic president whose middle name is Hussein when we are fighting against some Moslem countries just like it would to have been weird to have a Japanese President after the bombing of Pearl Harbor or electing Arnold Schwarzenegger during Hitler's regime.


He was educated in a Muslim school? Doesn't frighten me. I was educated in a public school. Now thats dangerous. Most of our leaders today were educated in "white" (pardon my use of popular racial slang) only schools, during a time when "blacks" rode in the back of the bus and drank from separate water fountains. Those schools were the same schools that senior members of the KKK went too. Would you rather he was educated in one of those schools? One of those American schools?

The fact that you just referred to people of African descent collectively as "blacks" and another broadly genetically diverse group of people as "Hispanic" goes to show that its hard to support unity among a nation that has been divided since conception on the basis of a hardly seamless social structure that people are still struggling to justify.


This post has been edited by gamer10: Jun 30 2007, 04:15 AM
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Ibis
post Jun 30 2007, 07:05 AM
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Danny, thanks for the warning! I suspect that is what John Edwards is best at ... ohmy.gif


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Dantrag
post Jun 30 2007, 02:50 PM
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Ha, that was a joke. I think he's an alright guy, I just don't agree with some of the things he stands for/has voted for in the senate down here. He supported the war(I do give him the benefit of the doubt on that one; everyone was for the war back then, when we all thought there were wmds.), he supported the Patriot Act, which I'm strongly against, and he supports the death penalty.


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Ibis
post Jul 4 2007, 12:23 AM
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gamer10, America is a melting pot and those who who won't meld ruin the stew...


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gamer10
post Jul 4 2007, 04:04 AM
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QUOTE(Ibis @ Jul 3 2007, 07:23 PM) *

gamer10, America is a melting pot and those who who won't meld ruin the stew...


America is to every individual something different, that is whats great about this country. The problem is, there are those in this country that believe that there is only one American way: American food, American dress, etc. Being that this is America, its perfectly fine that they think that way.

But it isn't right to use that to disadvantage others. Whether thats the name of the game or not, its just plain sickening. Being American doesn't mean we have to accept a certain cultures standard. That's not melting. That's assimilation.

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canis216
post Jul 4 2007, 06:23 AM
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Barack Obama has never been a Muslim, and the school he attended in Indonesia was not a madrassa, but a regular ol' public school. The middle name of 'Hussein' comes from his Kenyan grandfather. Of course, it's in his opponents' interests to put out nasty insinuations and outright falsehoods in hope that folks will pick up on it and assume it's all true. Geez, what distortions won't his opponents will try to put out there to discredit the man?

Obama went to high school in Hawaii, where everyone called him 'Barry' and he played basketball. He did community work in Chicago. He did some nice things in the Illinois state senate (I'm originally from Illinois), and kept his cool when he ran against crazy Alan Keyes for U.S. Senate. He was against the Iraq war before it happened. He's a pretty smooth politician, but also a genuine person.

So, would I vote for Obama? Sure. I think I prefer him among the Democrats. And I prefer the Democrats to the Republicans.

As for the candidate from Alaska... that's Mike Gravel. He's definitely a strange one. I've seen one of his commercials analyzed (sort of) on slate.com. He basically stares at the camera for a full minute (no speaking), then drops a rock in the water nearby. Then it ends, with Gravel walking away from the camera, still saying nothing. It's safe to say that he's a long-shot.



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Ibis
post Jul 4 2007, 04:17 PM
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Whoa ... wierd and rather Hitchcockian. blink.gif hmm, could the rock dropped in water have any reference to his name being Gravel & could he be any relation to Barney Rubble &/or Fred Flintstone? In either senario, I don't think I'll be voting for him.

You know who tickled me @ the Dem Debates? The little guy from Ohio, he reminded me in some strange way of Ross Pereaux (sp?)


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Zarrexaij
post Jul 9 2007, 01:25 AM
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I don't know what the candidates are about (except Hilary Clinton, and there's no way in hell I'm voting for that woman), so right now I'm undecided. I will vote in the election though.

I'd rather wait to make a decision anyways. I don't like flip-floppers.


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DoomedOne
post Jul 9 2007, 10:52 PM
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Ibis you do seem to be coming off slightly judgmentally.

He is to Islam what I am to Christianity, my family has roots in it but I have never been a Christian, I wasn't born one, never practiced the beliefs therein (though I do like the bible for all the symbolic truths hidden within its pages). He's the same way, but your already sitting him next to jihadists. Should I be paired up with members of the KKK, then?

See, I love how one of the biggest misconceptions of the American people is that Islam is a culture of violence. They used to be one Muslim Nation in the middle-east before the West came over there and divided it all up and said they had to have individual nations and all that nonsense. They were givern corrupt Kings and dictators that spread violence throughout in pursuit of money. Well guess what, alll that corruption rubbed off on our leadership, and now this country is no better off.

Republicans and Democrats know most people that care about politics are so biased they'll vote for a big-government in the corporate pocket candidate any day because he's the the most popular candidate on their side. Kerry was one, Bush was one, Hillary is one, Edwards is one, even the great Obama has probably dealt with some corrupt lobbyists from time to time. Oh yeah, and Giuliani, Gingrich and the rest of the Republicans all suck the lobbyist teet of empty promises and personal wealth as well.

It's depressing, but there are heroes, like Ron Paul on the republican side and Dennis Kucinich on the democrat's side. They need our support if we want to free this country of corruption.


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Ibis
post Jul 10 2007, 04:57 AM
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I am extremely judgemental ... ask Pisces. It is my right to be so however.

This country will never be free from corruption ... it was built on corruption. Corrupt prisoners, the scurrilous poor, corrupt-according-to-the-ruling-religion sects were loaded into leaky corrupt wooden ships run by yeh .. corrupt treasure hungry pirates and if they were lucky, made it to this new world. The most corrupt of the indiginous people here fought with and traded with the corrupt invading and warring French and English until the conquerors vanquished them or sent them to reservations. The north of the country continued to have the lower bowels of Euro-society evacuated into its corrupt factory run cities - while the hugely corrupt South just sent corrupt pirates and slavetraders over to Africa and took what they wanted and corruptly ran their plantations on abuse. Then a corrupt brotherly war between North & South occurred which brings grumbles of resentment today. Many other corruptions occurred .. prohibition, giving addled women the vote, jim crow, etc. and now we have a nation so corrupt that it is leading the road to extinction of whatshallevernotsurvive global warming. Soooo, a corrupt pair of Republican brothers from Texas rigged an election w/ a now corrupt congresswomen so evil her own staff won't stay with her long ... and the whole corrupt economy has been given like a head on a silver platter to the rich cronies and oil buddies of these corrupt brothers and the factory labor has been given to corrupter-even China and tech labor has been outsourced to decrepit India, a society so corrupt that widows are made like the untouchables - abandoned by their families, made to beg in the streets, shave their heads, wear white to identify themselves, not wear jewelry in a land where women wear their entire dowries on their personage .... our coal mining towns are deserted and corrupt, our farmlands are corruptly told not to produce .. the corproate farms will do it instead, our young people are having trouble even finding simple service jobs, the college loan system has gone totally corrupt, yaddie yadda yaddaa....

Now, what were you saying again about freeing this country from corruption, Doomie? Don't you think it'd fall apart at the seams like tissue paper if you even tried ???

This post has been edited by Ibis: Jul 10 2007, 04:59 AM


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