Thieves Guild Extension, Possible new mod Options

[ghastley]

Once I get Evergloam finished for Oblivion, I'd like to do the same for Skyrim, and add some quests onto the end of the Thieves Guild quest-line.

The basic idea is that the TG has grown enough, once you're Guild-master, to break away from Maven Black-briar's influence. Karliah laid the groundwork for that in her activities around Goldenglow and Honningbrew, and you have a potential outside ally in Mjoll. Nocturnal should prompt this in some way, maybe via Karliah, who is cloistered in the Nightingale Hall, effectively out of the game. Nocturnal doesn't get to strut her stuff enough, either, so another appearance at the Twilight Sepulchre is in order, maybe more than one.

There needs to be an allowance for Maven becoming Jarl, and bumping her from that position won't let Laila take it back, as the city isn't switching sides in the CW. It needs another candidate - maybe Asgeir Snow-shod, if he's alive. Or even Gisli, from Solitude, so she can move out of her brother Erikur's shadow. Since Riften is in Imperial control, sending someone from Solitude makes some sense.

But first, Maven has to be cut off from possible sources of support. If she's Jarl, she's already lost the Stormcloaks, but the Imperial Legion, and the Thalmor (not to be considered the same side) are opportunities for quests. Evidence of dealing with the Stormcloaks at that point may be enough for the Legion, and Talos-worship for the Thalmor. If Laila is still Jarl, reveal a plot to kill her to alienate the Stormcloaks.

I'd also incorporate the making of Riftweald Manor into a TG-friendly usable location. Remove bandit guards and traps, open the doors, etc. Black-briar Manor would also become free if the current owners are jailed, dead, or whatever, but that only needs a change of ownership. One of them, probably Riftweald, would become a club selling the rival brand of mead, maybe with a side of drugs and prostitution.

Goldenglow/Honnigbrew revisited to establish the rival mead supply. Khajiit caravans bring in Moon Sugar and Skooma for the club. Svana Far-Shield and Threki the Innocent (released by the TG) are the "barmaids", with others added as business develops. Niluva Hlaalu is one possible recruit, too. I need multiple choices, as these are not essentials, and could be dead from vampire/cultist/thief incidents. Ingun Black-Briar is added (unwillingly) at the end.

Sibbi gets executed for multiple murders, including Svidi's even though she's still alive as Lynly. Hemming is jailed, in shackles. Maven herself needs an appropriately humiliating fate that she needs to remain alive to suffer - still thinking about that one. Maul loses essential status, but Mjoll doesn't -> who wins? I'd like that fight to take place in the middle of town, with everyone watching.

I'm also considering a raid on the Thalmor Embassy to kidnap Elenwen. This may be the incident that is blamed on Maven to sever her from Thalmor support? I've always thought it a pity that you don't get to go back there after the Diplomatic Immunity quest, unlike most locations. The problem with doing that is the effect on the MQ if you do this mod's quests first. So I need a Thalmor-related quest in case the player hasn't done DI, and then this would be tacked on the end as a bonus.

[Acadian]

ghastley, this sounds fun! I haven't done the TG yet so won't be able to provide much help - just encouragement!

[Grits]

ghastley, this sounds great! I was just casting an acquisitive eye over Riftweald Manor when Marius sneaked through there. I like the idea of framing people who are in the way and letting the guards handle the grunt work. How sweet it would be to frame Maven for something!

I’ve had most of Riften’s population taken out by a single dragon or vampire attack, so backup NPCs for your potential recruits would be important. Maybe even some added by your mod in case the others are all dead?

I’ll hang on to Marius for testing even if he doesn’t survive his actual game. Yay!

[ghastley]

So far, so good. My Orc Hearthfires went on hold because I couldn't get past a Papyrus crash in the construction scripts, but I suspect a single-master mod will have fewer issues (as Hulk Out confirms).

I've managed to get the bandits and doors disabled/swapped in Riftweald Manor by a quest stage fragment, and the staff likewise. I need to do the same for the traps, but that's less important when you can enter the house normally and don't need to use the basement tunnels.

I confirmed that the mercenaries at Goldenglow respawn, so the quest to go back there just needs a quest target item planted by the radiant system. The apiaries don't need to be involved the second time, so that scripting doesn't need to be touched. Honningbrew Meadery is already controlled by the TG, so I just need a quest to set up its supply chain from Goldenglow, and back to the Riften club.

I'm working on some ideas for connecting Maven to the Thalmor, but I need to check out what's actually possible, especially if the player hasn't done the Main Quest, and doesn't intend to, or has done the Civil War (or Season Unending) and made her Jarl of Riften. There are also possible issues with the Supply and Demand quest if it runs concurrently. Creating a flexible story that will fit in with any state of those quests is the biggest challenge. At least I can rely on the Thieves Guild being completed!

[Grits]

Another thing I thought of that might have nothing to do with anything you’re considering is the player’s relationship to the Dark Brotherhood. There’s a quest-locked Stone of Barenziah in the Falkreath sanctuary, so a fair number of thieves will probably have either wiped out the DB or joined them in pursuit of that damnable gem. I was thinking that there might be a DB connection somewhere in your mod with framing an NPC for murder.

[ghastley]

The possible states with the DB line are so diverse - from not knowing it exists to having destroyed it - that making a connection would be very tricky. It may be possible to have content dependent on stages of DB done, but that sort of thing gets complex.

Edit:
More progress - I have cloned Castle Dour, and removed all the windows, as a basis for the Skyrim version of Evergloam Castle. It will have a similar plan to the one in the Oblivion mod, with the "public" areas - barracks, guest room - leading off the entrance hall, and the dining room and bedroom(s) accessed from the main throne room. I'm currently adapting a few details of the Oblivion one to Skyrim standards - Nocturnal's throne was a Strotis original, not a Bethesda creation, so that's a legitimate port, and my own costume for the Seducer guards is likewise (and now done).

There will be a room there for Azura to visit her sister. I copied her skirt over, and the wedding garland goes well with it. She, and Nocturnal, need better hair than the vanilla game offers, so I'm sorting through the Apachii collection right now. Nocturnal's dress needs work, as the original clips badly when not used with her portal animation. I may just download an adaptation of that, although it's likely that they won't have fixed the weighting, just changed the textures.

And although it does nothing at the moment, I have a quest triggering when the player receives the Guildmaster's armor, so it can all happen at the right time. At some point, the script for this will switch the portal in the Twilight Sepulcher to go to Evergloam Castle instead.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Jul 7 2015, 03:09 PM

[ghastley]

While re-visiting my old characters' games this weekend I got a few new ideas that will probably make their way into this (if I get back to work on it). I'd been stuck with the problem of a suitable fate for Maven Black-briar at the end of it all. Playing Vicuña's game again (she currently has Serana as a follower) made me realise that Maven would be the perfect gift to Molag Bal.

Especially if Serana has taken the cure, the Daughters of Coldharbour are down on their numbers, and Maven's a bloodsucking @#$%^ even before becoming a vampire. I'm sure Molag Bal will ensure her induction is as pleasant as she deserves.

The problem, of course, is how to imply it in the game without actually showing anything. Initial thoughts were to leave her in Volkihar Cathedral with the summoned Daedric Prince, and discretely leave them to their fun. But since that location only becomes available after the Dawnguard quest-line is complete, it has the downside of making my quest dependent on that DLC - and finishing it! So I'm trying to come up with another location that's not part of Dawnguard. It needs to have only one way out, so that you can lock the door as you leave.

The abandoned house in Markarth is an obvious candidate, but it's nothing like as theatrical a space as Volkihar Cathedral. I may have to create one from scratch, using Castle Dour or Windhelm parts.