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> Going to the dark side...
Elisabeth Hollow
post Feb 14 2013, 09:08 PM
Post #41


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From: Texas



I enjoy evil characters, in moderation. I identify with underdogs. Usually on my first playthrough, I will have a character that does everything. Just everything. I explore every nook and cranny and do every quest I can. Then my next character is the one that I take seriously.

That is the one who helps instead of hinders. My characters like to uplift people and help them, not bring them down.

But if you're going to be a bad guy, in my opinion, like mALX said, be interesting about it. same with good guys. I feel like there are different shades to everyone. Good people do bad things, and bad people do good things.

It happens.


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Lopov
post Feb 14 2013, 11:49 PM
Post #42


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If I may elaborate a little here since my current character is an evil one... Falador is evil and doesn't care much about taking lives of innocent people (or harvesting souls as Lucien Lachance says) but he isn't a mindless killer that would go on a rampage killing anyone that crosses his path. He has a 'good' side on occasion but it happens very very rarely. Something about his personality and his deeds:

-He finds himself ugly & repulsive, that's why he thinks of himself to be a chosen of Namira. Since beggars are chosen of Namira as well, Falador doesn't have anything against beggars and gives them gold on occasion.

-In most cases he doesn't kill without a reason although there were exceptions. More about exceptions later. He serves the Dark Brotehrhood and obeys the tenets, so he doesn't have qualms about killing his targets. But he likes challenge that's why he (if possible) killed only the person required and not the others. But there were few exceptions - he killed whole crew of Marie Elena although the contract was only on the captain. He killed a man who lived with Matthias Draconis although the contract was only on Matthias - but his roomate found him and Falador had no 'choice' but to kill him. Another exception was after assassinating Phillida - when he went to IC to place his finger into a desk, two random Imperial soldiers were standing in his way and he picked them off. There was no need, he could as well sneak past them he wanted to show other people that nobody should mess with the DB. In his early days he was more savageous but then sort of 'calmed' down.

-He smiles rarely and even if he does, it's a wicked smile. But when he saw Carwen for the first time, he smiled with honesty. But because he finds himself ugly, he didn't dare to talk to her. When he found out that she's member of TG as well, he encouraged and asked her about Rumours bigsmile.gif He actually didn't listen to her but only admired her beauty. It was the only time so far that Falador realized that he will never be able to have a family because of his life-style. But he pushes these thoughts away and continues with what he knows the best - killing.

-His hideout is (modded) Fort Caractacus and he pays proprietor of the Aleswell Inn Diram Serethi 50 gold on occasion to warn travelers / adventurers to stay away from the fort. I don't use any mods for this, it's just something that happens in imaginary conversation (but he still gives him 50 gold each time).

I think he would be boring to play if I roleplayed him as a mindless killer slaughtering everyone so I very much agree with this quote.

QUOTE
But if you're going to be a bad guy, in my opinion, like mALX said, be interesting about it. same with good guys. I feel like there are different shades to everyone. Good people do bad things, and bad people do good things.


-I tried to give him some traits in his personality that make him more interesting to RP (I might still add him some trait since we've only reached a little over hundred hours). He's mostly a loner and stays away from towns, unless he's got 'business' to do there. He would never attack shopkeepers without a reason and he doesn't even think about it. Because of high infamy he gets nasty & arrogant remarks all the time but he ignores them as he also ignores most of the people that pass him. He would never kill somebody because of a remark.

-But being evil an all that, he likes to 'play' with his unsuspecting victims... for example - on his way to Bravil he noticed an Imperial guard who was turned towards him with his back. Falador dismounted, readied his bow and targeted the guard. If he fired an arrow, the guard would die instantly. He was moving the arrow up and down, deciding whether to do it or not and in the end he didn't fire the arrow. The power of deciding about someone's fate without that person knowing it makes him feel superior. When he passed the guard on Shadowmere, he said to him:"Not this time," but the guard had no idea what Wood Elf was talking about.

But when he's out for revenge... things get messy. devilsmile.gif

This post has been edited by Lopov: Feb 15 2013, 12:04 AM


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Darkness Eternal
post Jul 24 2013, 07:05 PM
Post #43


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Joined: 10-June 11
From: Coldharbour



"The core conflict, the central dichotomy of TES lore is not Good vs Evil, it's Change vs Stasis, with no moral qualities applied to either. There are some individuals who are going to seem unambiguously good or evil when viewed through a modern moral lense, yes, but that's not the central issue at hand here. There's no evil dragon kidnapping the fair maiden, nor any rescuing knight. There's a long, long history of philosophical conflict over an open-ended question posed by the deaths of the Aedra at Convention. Is it better to transcend or regress from the Mundus and mortal death?

It's worth noting that the heroic ideal within the TES mythos is the silver-tongued traitor, rather than any moral paragon. All the greatest heroes were liars, or murderers, bastards and betrayers, from the start to the end without exception. Pelinal killed Ayleid and Nede indiscriminately when his madness overtook him - Tiber slit Emperor Zero's throat and then betrayed his closest friends, and in doing so became the most important deity in the mythos. Vehk betrayed the closest friend he'd ever had and stole godhood with a lie, then rewrote history as it served him.

The Heroes aren't the good guys in TES. They're just the ones who win."


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And yet I am, and live—like vapours tossed.
I long for scenes where man hath never trod
A place where woman never smiled or wept
There to abide with my Creator, God,
And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept,
Untroubling and untroubled where I lie
The grass below—above the vaulted sky.”
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mALX
post Jul 24 2013, 07:27 PM
Post #44


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From: Cyrodiil, the Wastelands, and BFE TN



QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Jul 24 2013, 02:05 PM) *

There's no evil dragon kidnapping the fair maiden, nor any rescuing knight.



Super Mario Brothers!





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PhonAntiPhon
post Jul 25 2013, 12:43 AM
Post #45


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Joined: 27-August 12
From: South of Lake Rumare...



Niamh is morally ambiguous, and her motivations are often unclear.
The Cyrodiil, indeed the Nirn, that she inhabits is often an unpleasant place and aside from her fundamental nature, she is also in part a product of the world in which she lives and of her experiences within that world, for good or ill.

Although I have in the past described her as mad, bad, and dangerous to know - in truth I think that's doing her a disservice, she's more complex than that, and whilst she's certainly not evil, she definitely isn't good either.
As her character develops, I see that whilst she is or has been guilty of certain things, she is not always culpable; she is a woman who has sinned, but has also been sinned against.

But, she can be as good as she is bad, she just needs a chance to show it...

An anti-heroine? Very definitely.


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Renee
post Jul 25 2013, 01:20 PM
Post #46


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Joined: 19-March 13
From: Ellicott City, Maryland



QUOTE(mALX @ Jul 24 2013, 02:27 PM) *

QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Jul 24 2013, 02:05 PM) *

There's no evil dragon kidnapping the fair maiden, nor any rescuing knight.


Super Mario Brothers!


You have saved the day! ... But the princess is in another castle!

QUOTE(PhonAntiPhon @ Jul 24 2013, 07:43 PM) *

Although I have in the past described her as mad, bad, and dangerous to know - in truth I think that's doing her a disservice, she's more complex than that, and whilst she's certainly not evil, she definitely isn't good either.


Very true.

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mALX
post Jul 26 2013, 04:55 AM
Post #47


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From: Cyrodiil, the Wastelands, and BFE TN



QUOTE(Renee Gade IV @ Jul 25 2013, 08:20 AM) *

QUOTE(mALX @ Jul 24 2013, 02:27 PM) *

QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Jul 24 2013, 02:05 PM) *

There's no evil dragon kidnapping the fair maiden, nor any rescuing knight.


Super Mario Brothers!


You have saved the day! ... But the princess is in another castle!



Aah, I miss it! But not enough to fool with my old NES system, lol.





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Darkness Eternal
post Jul 26 2013, 12:39 PM
Post #48


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From: Coldharbour



Guys, not lets get off topic here.


--------------------
And yet I am, and live—like vapours tossed.
I long for scenes where man hath never trod
A place where woman never smiled or wept
There to abide with my Creator, God,
And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept,
Untroubling and untroubled where I lie
The grass below—above the vaulted sky.”
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mALX
post Jul 26 2013, 10:31 PM
Post #49


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From: Cyrodiil, the Wastelands, and BFE TN



QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ Jul 26 2013, 07:39 AM) *

Guys, not lets get off topic here.



"Huh?"


*mALX scans the upper topics*


"Wait, hasn't this all been hashed through already? We can only repeat everything that has already been said in the previous pages...oh, okay; if you insist!"


IMHO, the developers aren't trying to represent good vs evil, but to encourage players to see and embrace the shades of gray in that world/realm and make choices on how much of the gray within themselves they are willing to get in touch with.


Example: Which would you be more willing to do, kill a person for this extreme weapon or just steal the weapon? How many of us end up with that weapon of choice at least once?

(or like Example: Tenpenny Towers in Fallout 3; another place where there is no right choice).

The whole roleplay of a lot of these games is that it immerses you into a universe where good and evil are no longer the issue, but what you are or aren't willing to do to find whatever success you desire to achieve is.


*

This post has been edited by mALX: Jul 26 2013, 10:31 PM


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Elisabeth Hollow
post Jul 26 2013, 10:33 PM
Post #50


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From: Texas



Thats what I like about RPGs, mALX. They're not linear. Instead of going for the obvious choice, you can say, "Well, I WANT this, so how can I get this? How could I justify getting this?"



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mALX
post Jul 26 2013, 11:07 PM
Post #51


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From: Cyrodiil, the Wastelands, and BFE TN



QUOTE(Elisabeth Hollow @ Jul 26 2013, 05:33 PM) *

Thats what I like about RPGs, mALX. They're not linear. Instead of going for the obvious choice, you can say, "Well, I WANT this, so how can I get this? How could I justify getting this?"



Exactly; and why I love them too. The barriers are removed; an ambiguous playground that tests our imaginations and creativity. I couldn't get into FPS's because they only offer a limited path with a certain outcome.




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Renee
post Jul 27 2013, 12:07 PM
Post #52


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Joined: 19-March 13
From: Ellicott City, Maryland



QUOTE(mALX @ Jul 26 2013, 05:31 PM) *

IMHO, the developers aren't trying to represent good vs evil, but to encourage players to see and embrace the shades of gray in that world/realm and make choices on how much of the gray within themselves they are willing to get in touch with.

QUOTE(Elisabeth Hollow @ Jul 26 2013, 05:33 PM) *

Thats what I like about RPGs, mALX. They're not linear. Instead of going for the obvious choice, you can say, "Well, I WANT this, so how can I get this? How could I justify getting this?"


Interesting. Both of these are great points. As long as I've been playing RPGs, neither of these realizations have ever occured to me, not the way you two have put them just now.



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mALX
post Jul 29 2013, 12:00 PM
Post #53


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QUOTE(Renee Gade IV @ Jul 27 2013, 07:07 AM) *

QUOTE(mALX @ Jul 26 2013, 05:31 PM) *

IMHO, the developers aren't trying to represent good vs evil, but to encourage players to see and embrace the shades of gray in that world/realm and make choices on how much of the gray within themselves they are willing to get in touch with.

QUOTE(Elisabeth Hollow @ Jul 26 2013, 05:33 PM) *

Thats what I like about RPGs, mALX. They're not linear. Instead of going for the obvious choice, you can say, "Well, I WANT this, so how can I get this? How could I justify getting this?"


Interesting. Both of these are great points. As long as I've been playing RPGs, neither of these realizations have ever occured to me, not the way you two have put them just now.



Oblivion is the first RPG I've ever played, it was a stunning and eye-opening game and experience for me to roleplay in a game. I can't go back now, lol.






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