Wolf Mods, Skyrim (and more!) for Oblivion Options

[Lena Wolf]

Updated: OOO - Crystal Chasm patch

I made a new version of the patch, now putting the bandit camp further away from the chasm, to the West of the chasm bridge (cell -16,40). Again, the patch is mastered exclusively on OOO.

Many thanks to Macole for thorough testing of the first attempt!!

This version should not have issues with disappearing things and people, one would like to hope.

[Lena Wolf]

Just a bigger map is a micro-mod I released yesterday, not expecting any interest. Well... it seems I was wrong! People seem to like it! Which is why I thought I'd mention it here. It is for those people who want to keep the vanilla menus but just want a bigger map like in this screenshot.

[macole]

Lena, test v1.1
The new location looks good. The tents are all in place but there is something odd going on with my setup.

I ran three tests.

First test: Faulty update, operator error. Lost all my custom snowy rock textures, everything is black. Redid patch install and Bash Patch.

Second test: with my current save which is long after I have completed the OOO Skyrim Bandit quest;

1. The camp location looks good and all the tents are in place.
2. I can go into the big tent. and loot the chest and jewelry box.
3. I was able to loot the and loot the chest and jewelry box that I was unable to unlock due to lack of skill, in January 2019
4. The Marlek’s big tent and Blondie’s smaller tent do not have sleeping bags.
5. The missing bedrolls and sacks are found still buried in the chasm.

Third test: with a save from 2019-01-22 prior to engaging Marlek the Ice Dragon Clan leader went rather strangely;

1. This is what the camp looked like in 2019 before adding Crystal Chasm
2. As in First Test the new camp location looks good and all the tents are in place.
3. I can go into the big tent and loot the chest and jewelry box.
4. Bedrolls and sacks missing in second test are in their correct places (strange).
5. The Skyrim Bandits are nowhere to be seen when I first enter the camp.
6. After walking around the area looking for the bandits, three bandits eventually did attack.
7. Searched the Chasm for Marlek and Blondie, the fourth Ice Dragon Clan bandit. Found both stuck in the Chasm.
------ a. Marlek
------ b. Blondie
8. Back in the Ice Dragon Clan camp it was getting dark around 9:00pm when Marlek shows up and attacks. Marlek is defeated and the quest update message is displayed.

I’m not certain as to why Marlek reacts the way he does. He may be scripted to appear in the camp at night? I’m also not sure if Marlek will appear consistently as he did this time.

The NPC I call Blondie is always close by Marlek. If you would play the Skyrim Bandits OOO quest you get the idea that Marleks is a two timing cad.

I am at a loss as to why the current save after defeating Marlek is different than the one prior to defeating Marlek. Any thoughts on that?

It would be um, fun if Marlek and Blondie were fixed in the Crystal Chasm Poolroom or Bedroom.

[Lena Wolf]

Macole, thanks for great testing! Again!

I can explain the strange things that you are seeing, but I shall verify any scripting in the CS tonight.

The bandits appear to be all persistent references rather than generic respawning ones, meaning that the moment you enter the cell for the first time, or the moment the NPCs are enabled by a script, their locations are recorded in your save file, so any changes to their locations introduced by a mod are ignored. These bandits then follow their AI schedules, which, judging by the screenshot showing them a distance away from the tents, are telling them to roam the area in a fairly large circle. When you return to the location, all NPC positions are taken from your save file, and then their AI schedules are applied. (This is roughly how it works, there are a number of finer points that I omitted, but it gives a general idea.)

This is why the bandits roam around to start with, eventually finding the new location of their camp and coming back to it. Unfortunately for Marek and his beautiful Blondie, they are stuck in the chasm and cannot get out. In this case Oblivion comes to the rescue - but only after some time. Oblivion lets them marinade in the chasm for a while, but when it transpires that they are unable to follow their AI schedules, the game fetches them and relocates them somewhere safe. Hence Marek eventually appearing, Blondie should follow at some point too. Note that Oblivion can easily let them marinade for 24 in-game hours before coming to the rescue (I've observed this a few times). In the worst case it can be full 3 days - the standard duration before a cell resets.

The same goes for the two bedrolls and sacks that didn't move - for some strange reason their coordinates were recorded in your save file, which is usually not the case for stationary objects. But there you go. It's Oblivion.

So, to test it cleanly, you would need a save from before you ever ventured into that area, and certainly from before their quest was started. If you don't have such a save, don't worry - I'll enable OOO in my game, put Lena in God Mode and go see for myself. Lena would never survive it as herself, I don't think.

Your testing with "dirty" saves is very important though, because this is what many people will see when they apply it. OOO generally says that you have to start a new game for it to work correctly, this may be because they make extensive use of persistent references, so things don't get moved when you apply a mod. This is just a suspicion though - but the stubborn bedrolls and sacks seem to confirm it. Or may be it was just a fluke with those sacks and bedrolls - who knows. The fact that their position was different between saves, shows that where they remained in the old position, that position was recorded in the save.

I can suggest one more test on a "dirty" save. Take the one where the bedrolls and sacks were positioned correctly but Marek and Blondie were stuck in the chasm. Enter area, walk around, kill whoever is present, save. Wait 24 hours. Walk around a bit more, and I would expect both Marek and Blondie to turn up after a little while - they should have been rescued by the game engine by now. So now you can kill them. If Marek is a "Quest Item", he may be extra persistent, with his location being recorded in the save file before everyone else's. If Blondie is scripted to follow him, it would explain her behaviour as well. But I need to check this in the CS.

When you were testing v1.0, you found Marek in the chasm cell. I think this was the rescue action by Oblivion. Rescues are not consistent.

This new location of the camp is going to be the definitive one because the location from v1.0 interferes with the road to Falkreath that I introduce in the upcoming release of TWMP Skyrim Alive, which also incorporates the chasm.

And by the way: path grids run right through the chasm already in the original mod, which would make NPCs suicidal trying to cross the chasm. This is fixed in my Skyrim Alive version of the chasm.

Once again - thank you so much for testing!

May I use your nice screenshot showing the camp and the chasm on the mod page, please? I haven't got any decent screenshots myself, the CS is not very good for it. Thanks in advance - but only if you agree, of course.

First test: Faulty update, operator error. Lost all my custom snowy rock textures, everything is black. Redid patch install and Bash Patch.

Strange - the patch does nothing to any textures! Do you always make a Bash Patch? I tried it a few times, but it consistently screwed things up for me, so I never use it. What happened is that it combined some of the things that should have been overwritten - and indeed were overwritten correctly if you just loaded the mods in the right order. The order that Wrye Bash figures out to be correct is not always all that correct, I found. Automatic things never are.

This post has been edited by Lena Wolf: Dec 7 2021, 10:46 AM

[macole]

Working as designed. I think I understand what you are saying. It explains a lot.

I always rebuild the Bash patch after uninstalling and installing a mods .esp. That is unless I forget which is what I did. But it sounds like there is a confusion with BOSS the sorting program. The patch was place near the bottom of my load order. No re-sorting of the order was done.

You can use any picture that I send to you. If you want one without my NPCs in the shot, wider FOV, or a special persective let me know and it probably can be done.

I have older saves, ones before my ffirst encounter with any Skyrim Bandit, that I can try using.

[Lena Wolf]

Thanks for the screenshot! I'll use that - it's just perfect, shows both the camp and the chasm bridge. Your characters are also looking very fetching there. High heels and all.

Regarding Wrye Bash, what I mean is that my Wrye Bash always tries to find the right place for a new mod in the load order - and more often than not it is the wrong place. I always have to move all new mods to where I actually want them. May be I used Bashed Patch wrong, but after a few attempts I just gave up. I completely ignore it and never build or load it - and everything works as I expect it to work, conflicts and all. Plus, not using it saves time when I'm juggling mods around.

[Lena Wolf]

The Helgen Labyrinth

by Jorgen Rammstein

Skyrim has many surprises, and most of them are deadly. This is not a land for a casual adventurer! But if you do survive, you truly will have a tale worth telling.

Some say that the real test of your adventuring mettle comes in the Labyrinthian maze. The place is shrouded in mystery and is filled with danger. It's all true, but also it is a well-known attraction with too much publicity - don't forget to pick up your souvenir wooden mask by the exit. For someone looking for a real mystery, lesser known labyrinths of Skyrim may be more attractive. Labyrinths in plural? Oh yes, there is definitely more than one.

This book touches upon one of them: the Helgen Labyrinth.

So, what is it? Well, it's a labyrinth in Helgen... Are you with me so far? Am I not rushing the story a bit too much for you? Good, an adventurer should be able to withstand a few insults, especially from a gargoyle. But that is a tale for another book!

There are tales of a labyrinth hidden somewhere in Helgen, that is the entrance to it is somewhere in Helgen. Well, Helgen is not a huge city but only an Imperial Legion outpost guarding the Pale Pass, so it shouldn't be that hard to find.

Wait, what? The Pale Pass? Isn't it that Akaviri crossing?

Oh yes, dear amateur adventurer, your voice rings loud and clear. Went to fetch the Madstone for the Countess of Bruma, did you? That's a seasonal competition with bets being placed on your success or failure... I lost quite a few septims on that little game! Once the Madstone is presented to the Countess, she quietly dispatches her rangers to go and put it back, so that the next unsuspecting adventurer could walk right into that trap again, providing for much needed entertainment for the citizens of Bruma and the ghosts of the Pale Pass Fortress alike. "No one knows where that pass is!" No one indeed. And you fell for it? No wonder I keep losing money on this...

But I digress. The Pale Pass is a name given to any mountain crossing from Bruma to Helgen, and there is more than one, and there were certainly other routes in use in the past, such as that Akaviri one. Mountain passes are prone to avalanches and cave-ins, their routes change as time passes, but for as long as we can remember, there has been a crossing between Bruma and Helgen named the Pale Pass. And this is the long and short of it.

So what of the labyrinth? Well, it is said to be your worst nightmare. It can go on and on, ever changing, ever regenerating, ever presenting yet another dungeon to cross, yet another turn. People have gone in and not come out for days, nay, weeks, nay, not come out at all! Their wraiths are undoubtedly still trapped in there, waiting for you to visit. So if you feel suicidal - this is your chance!

But then again, if no one ever came out of there, there would have been no one to spread the tales either. Obviously, a way out exists. The trick is to know how to find it. The accounts of what the exit looks like vary from straightforward to a bit strange to outright unbelievable and bizarre, and I'm not telling you what it looked like to me either. You have to see for yourself. But yes, an exit definitely exists! What is more, a vital clue is written on the key that unlocks the inner door. But what adventurer will stop and peer into the barely visible lettering on a key? Most will just ram it into the lock, impatient to meet their doom.

But why would you even go there? If you are asking yourself this question, then you'll be better off exploring the Northern Inn instead. It's your choice. The inn has pretty good mead, by the way, which in itself might be your worst nightmare. People have gone into mead halls and not come out for days, if at all. Their unresponsive bodies are often thrown out into the snow where they either sober up or move on. The Red Hall is the only one that we know to allow unconscious customers to take up valuable floor space indoors. But then again, the Red Hall has its own surprises.

But I digress, again! Skyrim has many wonders, from mead halls to labyrinths, to transient Oblivion gates, Dwemer ruins, Nordic tombs and of course straightforward caves and mines perfect to spend the night. And all of it is waiting for you.

[Lena Wolf]

I have put together Helgen, the town and the labyrinth. All that is left is to test it... And to get it to actually work. Details.

After spending most of the day getting my computer issues sorted (see the other thread), I was able to finally do a bit of Helgen testing. Mixed results there, but that's normal - this stuff is highly experimental.

While I was making Helgen however, I was also preparing to go South in the game, so I had Valenwood, Elsweyr, Black Marsh, Summerset Isles and other similar tropical mods in my load order. Something is doing funny things to Imperial gear - look, it's all covered in tropical vegetation!

Legion gear on display at the smithy

But this problem is for another day...

[macole]

That is the strangest thing I've seen in a long time. Could be a druid or a tree hugging Bosmer has move in.

[Lena Wolf]

Yeah, this is really weird. The ferns are only growing out of Legion gear that is lying loose as opposed to it being worn. I've got Legionnaires stationed around Helgen, and they've got no ferns growing out of their armpits (yet). But give it time...

[Lena Wolf]

Looking back at the OOO patch to move the bandit camp North of the shrine of Hermaeus Mora - Macole, I'm looking at you! I found this page on CS Wiki that takes a good look at cell reset mechanism - both for internal and external cells. It gets rather technical at times, but they do try to explain all those persistent/non-persistent/dynamic/dead/etc. aspects with respect to the data set in the CS (vanilla modules or mods) versus data stored in save game files.

Just an FYI for those who wanted to know more. Not needed to play the game!

[macole]

There you go again, making me learn something new. Should have done this ten years ago.

[Lena Wolf]

Spent most of the day yesterday testing and debugging the Helgen Labyrinth. By the end of the day Lena successfully got lost, and I mean really lost - I had to enable all debugging output to figure out where she was and which door would lead her to safety! In the end I had to use COC to get her out! I'd say the labyrinth works as intended.

The funny thing that deep inside it she received a visit from a certain captain asking her help with a disaster on the Cybiades. Amazing how these characters can find you in the most unusual places. Unfortunately he just ran off after their conversation, leaving Lena stuck in the labyrinth.

[macole]

The unwavering courier syndrome strikes again. "Sorry no time to help. Got message to deliver, you know."

Cybiades? Goodness Lena your mod list is getting up there in size. Close to mine it seems.

[Lena Wolf]

166 mods enabled at the moment, but a few more on standby. In particular in the South you've got to choose between Valenwood Improved and Elsweyr Pelletine, so at the moment the Valenwood suite is on, but it may change. I feel a (very) rough patch coming on, too. And yes, Cybiades. The write-up sounded nice, so why not. Also a few other "outworldly" mods, old and new. I've got the entire Tamriel as TWMP, except Morroblivion, which will come in later. There's a TWMP patch for it, but there's also another solution, I only glanced at both, that's not for now. But I don't have any texture replacers, not for landscapes and not for bodies, I actually like my Oblivion the way I'm used to seeing it... But there you go.

PS. Someone on Nexus suggested that my game could only be lightly modded because that's all you would be able to manage with my 15 y/o PC. I would not call it "lightly modded". But of course mods differ greatly in their impact on performance, but so far I haven't used any enhancements like OSR - no need.

This post has been edited by Lena Wolf: Dec 16 2021, 05:53 PM

[Lena Wolf]

TWMP Skyrim Alive 1.1 is out!

I have just released version 1.1 of the Skyrim Alive adventure. Phew! Now Lena can finally focus on going South! All the info is on the Nexus page, no need to repeat it here. Besides, if you've been reading the updates, you already know what's included!

[macole]

PS. Someone on Nexus suggested that my game could only be lightly modded because that's all you would be able to manage with my 15 y/o PC. I would not call it "lightly modded". But of course mods differ greatly in their impact on performance, but so far I haven't used any enhancements like OSR - no need.

IMO, as long as you don't go loading 4K texture replacers you'll be fine. Even I don't go overboard on the replacers.

P.S. I have running 273 .esp's and another 70 texture replacers loaded. It's not the heaviest load i've heard of

[Lena Wolf]

PS. Someone on Nexus suggested that my game could only be lightly modded because that's all you would be able to manage with my 15 y/o PC. I would not call it "lightly modded". But of course mods differ greatly in their impact on performance, but so far I haven't used any enhancements like OSR - no need.

IMO, as long as you don't go loading 4K texture replacers you'll be fine. Even I don't go overboard on the replacers.

P.S. I have running 273 .esp's and another 70 texture replacers loaded. It's not the heaviest load i've heard of

I found that for my setup the number of NPCs in a fight is the slowing factor. The CPU becomes overloaded at about 10 actors with active battle AI. Just walking around is no problem. The game doesn't crash but starts to stutter, I suppose I could improve it with those stutter removers but as it is so rare, I have not bothered so far.

HD textures would probably be a problem too, but I run Oblivion on half resolution, so they lose their HD factor anyway, and I don't bother. That is, I run Oblivion at 1600x900 while the screen has double that resolution, and I let the screen do anti-aliasing - it's a smart TV. The PC is set to the same resolution as Oblivion.

But still, 150+ mods is not what I would call "light". Although it is nothing like yours, and I'm sure other people have even more mods, but to me "lightly modded" would be under 20...

[Lena Wolf]

Spent most of the day untangling the mess I made earlier. This concerns companions. I''ve been using a heavily modified Companion Share and Recruit, and I've arrived at the point of starting from scratch on my own companion system... Which I had done, but the companions themselves were rather messy too, so I had to pull them out of the old mod and put them each into their individual mods, edit IDs, make it all stick together...

So why I am writing about it in this topic? Because I need to have Lena's friend Hauk fixed so that they could go South to check on more TWMP territories. Not Skyrim anymore, but the land of Elsweyr actually comes from TWMP too. So I'm still on topic. Hauk is the first companion with the new system, and he's going to be testing it. But the others also had to be converted, even if they are staying in the background, to make sure that the old system is not loaded.

Let me tell you this: it is better to avoid making a mess from the start!

[Lena Wolf]

Does anybody know why the Mages Guild in Dune is abandoned? No?

Well, we found the following crumpled note under some junk in there:

Well, now you've done it! What were you thinking?! Experiment in teleportation, indeed! Did you string up every single goblin-infested dungeon that you could find? And if that wasn't bad enough, why oh why did you connect each of them to the trapdoor in the Mages Guild? Oh, "for convenience", so that you wouldn't find yourself trapped in there again doing your experiments! But goblins also found it very convenient to get to our supplies! You should see the mess! And the worst part is that they now stole the key to the trapdoor, so I can't even lock them out anymore...

That's it, I've had enough - I am leaving. Zayiq Cherim has got the key to the Guild Hall. I instructed him to only give it to another mage - it's just unfair to subject anyone else to the results of your experiments. Perhaps someone will be able to find the key to the trapdoor and lock out those goblins once and for all! Mind you, they'll have to go through a lot of dungeons, and with your random connections, there's no telling how long it will take them to even get to the right one, let alone to actually find the key in there... Goblin psychology never saw enough study to even begin to guess where they might hide it.

Oh we should have expelled you when we had the chance!

It's just another mystery of Elsweyr, it seems. But may be... hmm... "Elsweyr Mysteries.esp" is in the making...