Oblivion Disappointing?, More inside... Options

[Kiln]

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

I finally got the chance to play Oblivion for the first time a few days ago and I just came up with the idea to get other people's opinions on this game...I played Oblivion for several hours, noting things that I liked and didn't like about it in my head.

I loved the new magic, combat, and stealth systems that Bethesda redesigned so well. The first thing that I found to be annoying was the bounty system, no warning is given to the player that he has a bounty until the guards have already caught you but that is a relatively small problem when compared with all that is good in this game.

Radiant AI was great...at first glance. Gameplay really seemed alive with the living, moving world that was created around me and I was amazed with it.

After a while though I noticed things that weren't so intelligent. Some of RAI's major flaws were with recognition of loved ones, friends, and reactions to events. Bethsoft boasted that the character's conversations would be lifelike and realistic when in reality they often are not. Sometimes when you stand near an NPC he will continuously repeat the same line over and over, which gets old fast.

Husbands and wives speak to eachother as if they were talking to a complete stranger and occasionally whenever an NPC tells another NPC about a bad even occurring, they seem unstirred or even happy about it...

Example of bad RAI conversations in the works:

Husband-"Kvatch has been attacked by the Deadra!"

Wife-"That is good to hear..."

Husband-"Indeed...it has been nice speaking with you...farewell."

Wife-"Farewell."

Another thing that I found to subtract from gameplay was the frequency of ruins, caves, and other points of interest that fill the land. As I was traveling through those beautiful woods I talked about earlier I ran into countless ruins and caves, filled with useless junk that made going into the places virtually useless.

The frequency of the caves and ruins is so great that whenever a player runs into one of the ruins they don't really feel a sense of accomplishment because they know what junk is inside and that nearly all of the ruins have similar layouts.

Things aren't sitting around on tables or scattered through the ruin to pick up freely as they were in Morrowind(I really liked that feature of morrowind), they are all locked up tight, making it pointless for anyone without a lockpick or spell to enter the ruins.

Oblivion seemed to be alot less diverse than Morrowind as well, all of the castles, ruins, and caves looked somewhat alike and there were alot less factions to join.

The glitches seemed to be rather frequent as well, not allowing me to drop some of the quest items after I got them and finished the quests involving them and sometimes the item doesn't register as being in your inventory when you're speaking with an NPC about the quest. Another glitch that I encountered was when allies were attacking something, they sometimes hit eachother and turned on one another without explanation...this actually happened several times while I played leading me to believe that it isn't a rare occurrence.

There were several good things about Oblivion but there were also lots of problems that kept me from really getting into it like I did Morrowind. In the end I think that Bethsoft removed too many of the fantasy elements and mainstreamed the game a bit too much.


So without any further discussion I'll give you my thoughts on Oblivion.

Good:
1.Great new combat, steal, and magic systems really add to immersion and keep the player interested.
2.Graphics are simply amazing, though they tend to get a bit simple at far off distances, they're still good.
3.The voice acting was well done with the important and quest characters but the other NPC characters had some fairly amateur sounding actors.
4.Fast travel speeds up gameplay so that you're not spending hours getting to your destination.
5.The quest compass keeps you from getting lost in the massive environment around you.

Bad:
1.Various and somewhat frequent glitches.
2.Repetetive and sometimes bad voice acting with some characters
3.Stiff character movements with animals and NPCs alike.
4.Horrible third person perspective.(In my opinion at least.)
5.Unfortunately the compass is always there, telling you where to go and keeping you from really exploring and doing your own thing without thought to the storyline.

Ugly:
1.RAI not too radiant after all...somewhat dull NPC behavior outside of quests.
2.No NPC recognition of relationships.
3.Poorly done conversations between NPCs.
4.Random and unexpected NPC behavior like attacking others for no apparent reason.

There is my view on this game, for me the problems distracted alot from the gameplay but overall I would say that it was pretty good despite the glitches and problems it had.

So was I disappointed? Yeah I guess I was...it just didn't have anything that was new or different by way of creatures and stuff to discover. It really seemed like too many of the unique things in the elderscrolls universe had been removed for me to get dragged into it like I did Morrowind but hey, that's just me...

I'd like to know what you think as well.

[foxo]

My biggest thing with oblivion is the lack of depth. In morrowind, the characters had tons of conversation options, and while you had to read them, a lot of the characters had a distinct personality. In oblivion, each character has one or two lines on average, and even some of the quest characters feel stale. It's also frustrating to find that after all that hype of RAI, NPC's are as unreactive with their environments as noble gases.

Also the fast travel system makes the world feel so small, when in fact it isn't.

But other than that, it's a pretty good game...

[Taillus]

Well I really had to vote the hats off option. I was really waiting for the game for a while and I really couldn't wait to play it. I agree with many things as far as flaws are concerned and I definately agree with the good points but I have found in visiting a great number of forums to see people's opinions (And im telling you I quickly regreted doing so...most other forums are rabid with flames and constant bashing so it is good to be here and here only.) I may be the only person with this opinion.....but I also could be wrong.

-The game gave me exactly what I wanted in the game. A large number of hours worth playtime and loving every single minute.
-A new world, new items and updated graphics.
-A chance to enter a fresh new TES province.
-More fun then I could have hoped for.

I must say that Morrowind was way bigger as far as depth and The scenery was so....unique; but I do know that I will be investing sooooooooo many more hours in this game because I didn't get too caught up in the hype.

Those who get far too pulled in by hype suffer great let downs... This for me was an amazing game because I didn't expect it to change my life... too many people did unfortunately but that is beside the point.

Overall I give the game a solid 9/10 and it deserves it.

[DoomedOne]

Here, I'll say what I liked an didn't

There were like 4 dungeon types, fort, cave, gate and ruin, and that's it. Each type used the exact same texture and was filled with the exact same group of foes. They boasted 200 dungeons, but really, aside from some cool little tricky traps in the aleyid ruins, there are four dungeons, done over and over again. I mean, they weren't so bad, I was just disappointed from what I thought it'd be like.

Now then, the RAI was not so bad on allies, it's enemies that pissed me off. They don't do anything different from morrowind, except for the very rare chance they might flee or grab a weapon. I was hoping wolves would stalk me, and trolls would call their frinds over before attacking, and will-o-wisps would lead me off the road instead of just come for me. I was disappointed.

Those are my complaints.

[Olav]

I had to vote hats off' as well as I'm really loving the game, but I agree on previously mentioned issues like too many points of interests and repetetive textures/dungeon design. The world felt a lot bigger and more mysterious and unique in Morrowind.

Regarding the RAI, I just saw the 6 trailers for Oblivion yesterday, the ones that were released some months ago. In one of those trailers, the RAI seemed much more intelligent and well done than I've seen in the game.

For example, that lady who runs the book store in Chorrol invited the player up to her room after closing hours (after being sweet talked), where she did lots of more or less intelligent things:

- Practiced archery, and when she didn't perform very well she took a potion of some sort and got much better.

- She fed her dog by putting some meat down on the floor, and the dog ate it and got lots of energy

- She went to sleep, but when the dog started barking she got up and cast a paralyze spell on it! When it continued barking after it recovered, she scared it away with a fire damage spell.

I'd love to see stuff like that in Oblivion. Are these things still in the game, or was it something Bethesda scripted for promotional purposes?

[iceman666]

i think its a great...i know it has a few problems, but wot gamee doesnt!! i was a big fan off morrowind twas amazing game...and they has just taken that a made it look good! it may not draw as many ppl in as morrowind did..all i know is, is that its the 1st game in about 3yrs that has kept me playing..it has been the only game i have played for the last month or more...how many games can you say that too.... eh?

[Furious_George]

Time playing OB (between wife and I): 300+ hours.
Time in any other xbox 360 game: 20-60 (60 being the most we've played any other game).

It has flaws, but is still the best 360 game out there. I'd still say it's highs are higher and lows are lower than Morrowind, but I'd rank them as 1 and 1A (take your pick of order) for all-time games on console.

[HyPN0]

''It was alright but it didn't really draw me in...''
That's it.While Morrowind had something special.
As foxo said,lack of conversation options is really disturbing.

The game is how would i put it...''Vanilla''.

It's quite obvius it's a lot dumbed down comparing to Morrowind in every posible way.MQ really disapointed me,because i was hoping for some unexpectable twist,and all that i got....well,this isn't the spoiler section.
Graphics really rocks,but that's not something i really value in the game.Sure it's nice to have those pretty woods,but gameplay comes first.
It was already said that caves,forts are all the same,even the same texture in the Ayelid ruins gets really boring.Lack of weapons such as Katanas,Wakizashi's,throwing weapons,and crossbows is also disturbing (don't give me M'Aiq's quote on this!).
Then:You remember how hard it was to get a Daedric Armor in Morrowind?Well,in Oblivion every fool has it.So much for rare.

The worst disapointment is RAI.
I remember the topic on the official forum(before Oblivion was released):
''What will make Oblivion special?''
You know what i said? RAI.There was one guy who said ''You people expect too much.RAI will be dumb.''Offcurse he got flamed,but guess who's laughing now.He was right.RAI system is a complete failure.They did good marketing with that ''dog flaming'' video,which turned out to be BS.I never seen an NPC throwing fireballs at their pets!
Sometimes they don't get to sleep at all (i remember a DB quest where muy target never sleeps),or they sleep in their armor
Their sentences don't make sence,and all they talk about is something that player can use.Like ''Look,a hint!''.They should be talking weather,clothing,food,whatever.....Something unrelated for the player.Even when you throw something at them,they just stand there and look at you

Havoc:Rocks in battle,but sucks otherwise.Decorating a house,draging bodyes,Or just simply placing something is so anoying and hard!I like to be challenged in battle,but this is something that is unworthy of my time.
Also just by walking you can make all the objects in the room shake.Try Gilded Geurafe in Imperial City.Bah.

Skill system:Nice,so we have perks.Well,i'm not quite happy with them.''A master of Heavy Armor will not be encoumbered while wearing it.''How the hell does that make sence?It doesn't.
Lack of skills such as Axe,Short Blade,Medium Armor,Enchantment is desturbing too.I like the MW skill system better.You could screw up in Morroiwnd,but you can hardly screw up your character in Oblivion.How suitable for any noob.
Most weird thing i saw is that your fatigue REGENERATES while runing.I mean that's just stupid.If i run a maraton,i sould be exousted,not regenerated!

Lack of Guilds.I'm a master of all guilds with my first char.I mean Morrowind had a lot of choice,while Oblivion is very limited.

I'm pretty sure i forgot a lot more,but this is quite enough.Right now i've installed some mods that balance the game.I hope they're good!





Still with all the complains i listed i played the game for 160 Hours.So i still think it's a good game,but definatly a degradation of Morrowind.Guess that mainstrem audience got what they wanted.The older players suffer.
Good we have the strong modding community,otherwise i would give up on this game a lot sooner.....

This post has been edited by HyPN0: May 8 2006, 09:12 AM

[Joryn]

I voted are you insane. I know I shouldnt but although I recognise the problems you listed and agree totally with your opinions on them, they still dont effect me very much. The NPC dialogue is one big one I agree with you on. While I dont necessarily think the voice acting is bad, the topic range, interaction with loved ones, and replying system is terrible.

Although I sit there a hear a conversation between man and wife sometimes and they sound like they barely know eachother, it dissapoints me for about 10 seconds. Then Im just back to playing. Another thing anout NPC's randomly fighting eachother. I recently posted about an incident where an important MQ guy and alot of soldiers were waiting for me outside an Oblivion gate.

When I finally get outside of the gate I find them brawling with eachother. So I obviously had to reload. After shouting a few profanities I had forgot the incident once my game reloaded.

Maybe Oblivion doesnt deliver everything it said it would in the way I wanted it to. But it delivers a way where I forget about its problems 10 seconds after I find them. Its certainly my favourite game, but suffers slightly from what Fable did. Im setting the standard of games too high. I shouldnt build up a game so much with my own imagination.

I will definately agree that, while more lifelike than Morrowind, radiant AI certainly didnt par up to what I was thinking it would do.

[Furious_George]

RAI isn't about to pass the Turing test, but then I never expected it would. Of course it's nowhere near real life. I think many people had unreasonable expectations, albeit fueled by the Beth propaganda machine.

Compared to 'AI' from any other game, I see it as a significant step forward. I've found many actions of NPCs in the game add to my enjoyment of the game. One recently occurred when I was in full chameleon mode in the middle of Skingrad pelting everyone with arrows. I downed a civilian, and a guard kneels down, looks for a pulse, and mutters, "She's dead. DEAD!" and then runs off in terror (okay, the terror part was my role-playing but still). That would NEVER have happened in MW or any other game.

[HyPN0]

RAI isn't about to pass the Turing test, but then I never expected it would. Of course it's nowhere near real life. I think many people had unreasonable expectations, albeit fueled by the Beth propaganda machine.

Quoted For Thruth!
I mean when you see that video about RAI you think:Revolutionary!
The woman sucks at marksmanship,drinks the potion,and voila she scores.
Then Thunder the Dog part.''Mommy has to read!''and then she flames the dog.That looked promising.
However it's not in the game.

Showing something in the video that isn't in the game and promising a lot and doing nothing.....well,i don''t know how would you call it,but i call it a big disgrace.

[Pisces]

They did state that things like that wouldn't really happen, that was just a demo to show what was capable, she was told what to do but no scripting was involved.

Now saying that things like that won't happen was propaganda, I was expecting the AI to act sensibly and gaurds wouldn't get in fights with themselves and a 1/4 of the town.

[Agent Griff]

For what you just said Hypno I now respect your opinions more. If there is an opinion that I entirely agree with it is Hypno's. Well put man! I chose "It was alright but it didn't really draw me in" as well.

I will put it all in a few short terms.

Root of the problem: hype

Bethesda hyped up the game too much, praising it to be brilliant and better than sliced bread. Well, alot of people believed it...and got dissapointed. I as well like to look back at Oblivion videos and see some thing and say "this isn't in the game!" or things like that. To be honest I think they dumbed down the game too much and to quote some guy from the official forums:

why did they turn Cyrodiil into a new Gondor?

I also think Cyrodiil was too generic. Morrowind was more unique and I actually liked visiting the many different towns. Ald Ruhn with its organic style, Sadrith Mora with its many mushrooms and Balmora, nestled on the banks of the Odai river. Oblivion is too damn generic, I can't say anything about the towns, except Bravil. I really liked that place because it was a compassionate place.

Stargelman: Language, Mr. Griff!

[Ibis]

Hmmm ... so has anyone tried to script anything like the lady flaming her dog, taking a potion to increase her archery skill, etc. using TESCS? Maybe the capability is there for us to script it if we want it to happen.
That's the only thing I can think of about why they would show it but say things like this won't automatically happen in the game.

[Cadaver]

I voted it was a good game. The hype was really too much, and there was definately some setbacks from Morrowind.

I pretty much agree with everyone so far, so I wont rave about caves or RAI, but one other thing I didnt really like....

the fast travel...

In Morrowind, between Mark, Recall, the interventions, Silt Strider, boat, mages guild and the Propylon indexes, you could get anywhere in 5 minutes... Especially with the boots of blinding speed.

But even with all those things, it still felt like you TRAVELED there!! In Oblivion, you dont travel anywhere. You make a 1-2 hour investment of time, stealing a black horse, and riding it around discovering everything. Just discovering. Ignore enemies, just ride up close enough to "discover" it and you automatically get the name and location and can instantly get there whenever....

WEAK!!

Even on a black horse, have you ridden on the Gold Road out of Anvil, head south past Bruma and down to Layawiin? That trip takes FOREVER!! and you may even be stopped by "highwayman" which is neat!! I love that you will also encounter Black Couriers or Guards as well. I loved that the RAI would have people once a month be found TRAVELING TO THE NEXT TOWN TO VISIT THEIR SISTER!! Crazy!! I didnt expect them to act like "people" so I wasnt too disapointed in the RAI, but the fast travel is annoying... I almost wish there was a mod that shut it off and added mark and recall with up to maybe, 3 total marks or something (to make up for the interventions...)

I also liked the church factions, and the semi-opposed Tribunal and Temple of the Nine...

So while graphics were better (yay...) and gameplay of stealth, combat, magick was MUCH better, there is a lot of simple stuff that could have left over from MW...

Since I only bought TESIV to occupy me while deployed in Iraq for several months.... it IS serving its purpose, and I love it.....

Cadaver

This post has been edited by Cadaver: May 7 2006, 10:25 PM

[Ibis]

It seems like all the highwaymen and bandits attack your horse right away. My horses ran away but then there was one who started stomping the mashed potatoes out of the outlaws. I loved that horse.

But yeh, I tend to just do the fast travel more often now to get there sooner.

[ThanadoS]

Hmm i enjoyed oblivion alot for bout 2 weeks. The graphics are stunning, i like the main quest, beautiful world, free to explore...
but then, it gets boring fast. After completing side quests and maybe guilds, all the other quest except for a few seem useless and not motivating. There is still no interaction with npcs, houses, horses,... are not necessary, money is not a question any more after some hours of gameplay, once you found a really good set of equipment there is absolutely no need to search for more (no finding, no searching, no "success" of an awesome treassure found etc.).
You were also right about everything looking quite the same. The same towers, same ayleid ruins, the same mines and caves, with pretty much the same enemies.
The game isn't as complex as they promised imo, which is a big drawback.

After all, i enjoyed the game as i said, but i had to vote for "disappointed".

[HyPN0]

They did state that things like that wouldn't really happen, that was just a demo to show what was capable, she was told what to do but no scripting was involved.

HAHA!So they DID state such a thing? When was that?
Well,that anouncment surely wasn't that widely announced as their ''Revolutionary RAI''.I bet a lot of people did expect to see at least similar things in the game,if not that specific moment.I mean they DID have 4 years
Why showing things that aren't there?
Simply:To draw attention.
Offer something good,give something bad.
Losers.

For what you just said Hypno I now respect your opinions more. If there is an opinion that I entirely agree with it is Hypno's. Well put man! I chose "It was alright but it didn't really draw me in" as well.

Well thank you!

I really liked that place because it was a shithole.

That isn't a censored word?

Hmmm ... so has anyone tried to script anything like the lady flaming her dog, taking a potion to increase her archery skill, etc. using TESCS? Maybe the capability is there for us to script it if we want it to happen.
That's the only thing I can think of about why they would show it but say things like this won't automatically happen in the game.

So now what?lLet the modders do it?
''We will provide a dumb version,let the modders do all the work!''
If that is the case,Bethesda is a group of very irresponsible programmers.
Although ,that isn't far away from the thruth.

This post has been edited by HyPN0: May 8 2006, 09:43 AM

[Joryn]

So many people are being really harsh on Oblivion. I liked many parts and the one's I didnt I could let slide. There are many complaints, as I have already said I agree with, but I dont know why many give it such a negative reaction.

The one part I would actually say I am disappointed about it the lack of ways to show your character other than combat. An example would be a mages guild quest where someone will say "we need to find out more about this, go see whatshisname". You do and from there its just finding one person to the next, until you find out what you need to and feel you accomplished nothing.

I would prefer a "We need to find out this, go see what you can dig up". Sure thats pretty vague and some people wouldnt have a clue where to begin, but at least if you could finish it without the NPC directing you every step of the way, you would feel more like you made a difference.

I felt the same way about Telvanni and the mages guild in Morrowind. You werent a powerful wizard who devotes some of his time to his own studies and experiments. You were an errand boy who spend all his time running round doing pathetic tasks for others and never doing research for yourself.

I see this often throughout most rpg's and I saw it when I was playing through Oblivion (not just the mages guild). Most other problems werent that big, or were big but I could let them slip. My point overall is I wanted a role playing game where the role play outside of the combat was a little more involving.

[Pisces]

HAHA!So they DID state such a thing? When was that?
Well,that anouncment surely wasn't that widely announced as their ''Revolutionary RAI''.I bet a lot of people did expect to see at least similar things in the game,if not that specific moment.I mean they DID have 4 years
Why showing things that aren't there?
Simply:To draw attention.
Offer something good,give something bad.
Losers.

They did to a lot for 4 years, I don't know how long MW took but it was 6 years inbetween Daggerfall and MW, they did work on Battlespire and Redgaurd inbetween but it was 4 years since Redgaurd and they made TB, BM and a whole bunch of the crappy games they use to fund themselves inbetween MW & OB. OB uses more advanced software which makes it longer to make and doesn't cut time down anywhere, if they were to make MW now it would still take them exactly the same amount of time. Now I would have perfered if they delayed the release another year so they could work out more bugs and do more guilds and such but then we would all be here swearing about how Bethseda betrayed us.