Skyrim-Redguard DLC? Options

[Colonel Mustard]

3 DLC does seem kind of sparse, when you consider that most games get twice that. Oblivion got what? 8 or 9 if you include SI and KOTN. FO3 and FONV both got 5 or 6 dlc each.

They may be cutting it short on account of the difficulties they've had developing for the PS3; considering that the PS3 version's initial reaction to the DLC was something along the lines of "argleblargleraaargh!" and the subsequent reaction of a good chunk of their customer base was something the lines of "argleblargleraaaargh!" and that, now that customers will expect future DLC to be released for all 3 platforms and will react to this not being the case with "argleblargleraaargh!" Bethesda may have decided that it's simply not worth developing more DLC due to the difficulty and expense they're going to have with dealing with the PS3's very tricky and complex memory architecture, and they simply don't want to risk alienating PS3 customers so are just starting development for the PS4, which has much simpler memory architecture.

Yet somehow Bioware could release Dragon Age: Origins on not only Windows, X-Box, and PS3, but also the Mac OS, and put out 10 DLCs and/or expansions for it. If they can do it, there is no reason Bethesda cannot. Everyone else in the world can release their games on the PS3. Bethesda has no one to blame for their incompetence except themselves.

Dragon Age isn't exactly the best example to give, considering how the games were both developed on entirely different engines, had entirely different design principles (DA:O is a semi-linear game with small environments and next to no actual use of a physics engine, Skyrim is a massive open-world game with fully interactive physics), and was designed for the PC which is a fundamentally different development environment than the PS3, which Sony designed with its Cell architecture which is dificult to code for because...reasons. So, yeah, not a great example.

Besides, you're missing my point; I'm saying that the fact that Bethesda coded themselves into a corner with Skyrim is fine, what I'm saying is that that's probably why they're not trying any more DLC, because it would be a bad investment. And in any case, I'd rather they actually moved onto a new project instead of milking Skyrim as a DLC cash-cow, as is often the case with popular games nowadays; considering the absolute creative quagmire triple-A gaming is currently in thanks to the "don't fix what ain't broken" attitude of developers, Bethesda actually trying something new instead of just making an easy buck of Skyrim DLC (which would sell, no doubt about it) is a good thing, in my eyes.

[Kiln]

3 DLC does seem kind of sparse, when you consider that most games get twice that. Oblivion got what? 8 or 9 if you include SI and KOTN. FO3 and FONV both got 5 or 6 dlc each.

They may be cutting it short on account of the difficulties they've had developing for the PS3; considering that the PS3 version's initial reaction to the DLC was something along the lines of "argleblargleraaargh!" and the subsequent reaction of a good chunk of their customer base was something the lines of "argleblargleraaaargh!" and that, now that customers will expect future DLC to be released for all 3 platforms and will react to this not being the case with "argleblargleraaargh!" Bethesda may have decided that it's simply not worth developing more DLC due to the difficulty and expense they're going to have with dealing with the PS3's very tricky and complex memory architecture, and they simply don't want to risk alienating PS3 customers so are just starting development for the PS4, which has much simpler memory architecture.

Yet somehow Bioware could release Dragon Age: Origins on not only Windows, X-Box, and PS3, but also the Mac OS, and put out 10 DLCs and/or expansions for it. If they can do it, there is no reason Bethesda cannot. Everyone else in the world can release their games on the PS3. Bethesda has no one to blame for their incompetence except themselves.

Dragon Age isn't exactly the best example to give, considering how the games were both developed on entirely different engines, had entirely different design principles (DA:O is a semi-linear game with small environments and next to no actual use of a physics engine, Skyrim is a massive open-world game with fully interactive physics), and was designed for the PC which is a fundamentally different development environment than the PS3, which Sony designed with its Cell architecture which is dificult to code for because...reasons. So, yeah, not a great example.

Besides, you're missing my point; I'm saying that the fact that Bethesda coded themselves into a corner with Skyrim is fine, what I'm saying is that that's probably why they're not trying any more DLC, because it would be a bad investment. And in any case, I'd rather they actually moved onto a new project instead of milking Skyrim as a DLC cash-cow, as is often the case with popular games nowadays; considering the absolute creative quagmire triple-A gaming is currently in thanks to the "don't fix what ain't broken" attitude of developers, Bethesda actually trying something new instead of just making an easy buck of Skyrim DLC (which would sell, no doubt about it) is a good thing, in my eyes.

Honestly I can understand some of your argument but the part about Bethsoft not wanting to make a quick buck?

Bethsoft is charging double for Skyrim DLC compared to Fallout DLC. What I think has happened is that they've figured out that people will pay double the price for DLC so they don't need to put out as much to support their games.

[Colonel Mustard]

3 DLC does seem kind of sparse, when you consider that most games get twice that. Oblivion got what? 8 or 9 if you include SI and KOTN. FO3 and FONV both got 5 or 6 dlc each.

They may be cutting it short on account of the difficulties they've had developing for the PS3; considering that the PS3 version's initial reaction to the DLC was something along the lines of "argleblargleraaargh!" and the subsequent reaction of a good chunk of their customer base was something the lines of "argleblargleraaaargh!" and that, now that customers will expect future DLC to be released for all 3 platforms and will react to this not being the case with "argleblargleraaargh!" Bethesda may have decided that it's simply not worth developing more DLC due to the difficulty and expense they're going to have with dealing with the PS3's very tricky and complex memory architecture, and they simply don't want to risk alienating PS3 customers so are just starting development for the PS4, which has much simpler memory architecture.

Yet somehow Bioware could release Dragon Age: Origins on not only Windows, X-Box, and PS3, but also the Mac OS, and put out 10 DLCs and/or expansions for it. If they can do it, there is no reason Bethesda cannot. Everyone else in the world can release their games on the PS3. Bethesda has no one to blame for their incompetence except themselves.

Dragon Age isn't exactly the best example to give, considering how the games were both developed on entirely different engines, had entirely different design principles (DA:O is a semi-linear game with small environments and next to no actual use of a physics engine, Skyrim is a massive open-world game with fully interactive physics), and was designed for the PC which is a fundamentally different development environment than the PS3, which Sony designed with its Cell architecture which is dificult to code for because...reasons. So, yeah, not a great example.

Besides, you're missing my point; I'm saying that the fact that Bethesda coded themselves into a corner with Skyrim is fine, what I'm saying is that that's probably why they're not trying any more DLC, because it would be a bad investment. And in any case, I'd rather they actually moved onto a new project instead of milking Skyrim as a DLC cash-cow, as is often the case with popular games nowadays; considering the absolute creative quagmire triple-A gaming is currently in thanks to the "don't fix what ain't broken" attitude of developers, Bethesda actually trying something new instead of just making an easy buck of Skyrim DLC (which would sell, no doubt about it) is a good thing, in my eyes.

Honestly I can understand some of your argument but the part about Bethsoft not wanting to make a quick buck?

Bethsoft is charging double for Skyrim DLC compared to Fallout DLC. What I think has happened is that they've figured out that people will pay double the price for DLC so they don't need to put out as much to support their games.

What I'm saying is not that Bethesda doesn't want to make a quick buck, but because they almost certainly would like to, but what I'm saying is that three-platform DLC is too expensive to develop as a quick buck, or if they do it for PC/Xbox only, they have a short-term profit for a long-term loss on account of alienating customers on the Playstation. They should've done a better job of coding Skyrim initially, but as it is it's too late to fix unless they give their engine a major overhaul, and that's something that can't be done by a patch and will have to be implemented on future patches.

I imagine Bethesda's logic went something like this:

Scene opens on board meeting of Bethesda Softworks, with executives gathered around a table. Robert Altman stands at the table, in front of a projector screen.

Robert: Okay people, so we're meeting here today to discuss Skyrim's future when it comes to DLC. Now I'm sure we all know that if we don't release on all three platforms, PS3 included, our customers aren't going to be happy. Now the first question is for you and your pet code monkeys down in programming, Steve; can we quickly release a piece of DLC for all 3 platforms in a manner that won't cause the Playstation version to crash and burn spectacularly?

Steve: First, Robert, stop calling my team and I code monkies. But let me answer your question with a little visual metaphor.

Steve picks up a Playstation 3 from underneath where he has been sitting. He switches it on.

Steve: This is a Playstation 3 running a piece of new Skyrim DLC which we've had plenty of time to bug-check it an optimise it. We're talking several months just for that, at least, so quite a bit of money.

Steve picks up a chainsaw from underneath the desk, revs it and slices the Playstation in half. Much to the concern of all involved, chunks of mangled plastic and circuit board fly everywhere. One piece hits an intern who was pushing a trolley of coffee into the room right in the eye, but nobody pays any attention as they are an intern

Steve: And that's a PS3 where we don't take the time to do it.

Robert: Good point there, Code Monkey, one we should definitely keep in mind. Therefore, we've got two options; we either spend a lot of cash on developing cross-platform DLC, or we just release for PC and Xbox. Alison, I mentioned that idea for you to see if you and the rest of the PR team could gauge the public's reaction to us announcing that again. What did you find?

Alison stands and walks around the table to the front, by the projector, skirting the slowly expanding puddle of intern blood

Alison: We did a little analysis of the public mood after the last time this happened, and according to our predictions, the public reaction would be something like this:

A picture of Pablo Picasso's Guernica appears on the screen. The board collectively winces

Alison: For clarification, we would be the horse and all the screaming people. Our customer base from the PS3 would be the Nazi bombers.

Robert: So what you're saying is that we would risk long-term loss by releasing DLC only for the PC and Xbox?

Alison: I'm saying our customers would probably kill us. With bombers.

Robert: I see. Thank you Alison.

Alison returns to her seat, around the pool of intern blood. As she passes, the intern manages to raise his head

Intern: [Rasping] Please...please call an...an ambulance. I might...live if you do.

Robert: You're not paid to talk, dammit!

Intern: I'm not paid at all.

Robert: I know. Perfect system, right? Anyway, Psychic Sue, what would our stock predictions be if we released only for the PC and Xbox?

A woman dressed in the shawls and silks often associated with gypsy fortune tellers peers into the crystal ball before her, waving her hands above its surface

Psychic Sue: The seed of the prophet shall sit the throne and drown in flame the mountains of man.

Robert: For god's sake, you've been coming out with that all week. Much more of that and we're hiring Mystic Mike to make our stock predictions.

Psychic Sue: Mystic Mike's a goddamn hack!

Robert: Yeah, yeah, whatever you say. Anyway, Q'Vorthqulle, what's your take on the situation?

The ball of ethereal light hovering above one of the chairs changes colour and makes a deep pulsing noise. There is a round of nods across the board.

Robert: Good point well made. Out of interest, Vorthak the Despoiler, did you and your team down in marketing manage to work out any way we might market this that could play down public backlash?

He nods to a giant of man, covered from head to toe in spiked plate armour, adorned with chains and skulls. The handle of an immense battleaxe rests against the side of the table where it is leaning.

Vorthak: After much deliberation, we decided on two options. The first was a poster of myself with the caption 'Complaints about the lack of Skyrim DLC on the Playstation 3 will result in Vorthak the Despoiler crushing your puny skull like an eggshell with his mighty armoured fist!'. The second was a poster of a puppy with the caption; 'We're honestly very sorry about the Skyrim DLC not being availabe for the Playstation 3. Can you find it in your heart to forgive us.' Neither of those tested well with focus-group audiences, and most of them said the first poster just made them want to go home and cry for a while. We did note that an alternative run of the first poster where I don't have a shirt on did test very positively with a female audience, though.

Robert: So you can't find any way to allay complaints from the public, then?

Vorthak: [Standing and raising his axe] The only solution we found was that I ride out and TAKE THE HEADS OF ALL WHO COMPLAIN!!

Robert: Vorthak, please, no decapitation.

Vorthak: [Hangs his head and sits again] Aw, everybody says that.

Robert: Right, so does anyone have any ideas for how to release for PC and Xbox only that doesn't involve pissing off a lot of our customers? [Vorthak reaches for his axe] Or decapitating our customers? [Vorthak looks disappointed] No? Nobody?

Alison: It might prudent to move onto...[she adopts a shady look]...the next project.

Vorthak: She has a point. We've already got a four-second loop of abstract and obscure footage ready to release to help promote viral hype for...[he adopts a shady look]...the next project.

Steve: Guys, why are we all acting so shady about our release of-[Psychic Sue clamps a hand over his mouth]

Psychic Sue: We're not supposed to explicitly mention it until the protagonists have become aware of it, so that we've got a mystery to intrigue the audience with, you fool! Don't you know how these things are done?

Robert: Then it's decided; we finish Skyrim and move onto the development of...[he adopts a shady look]...the next project.

The scene fades to black as a chorus of evil, sinister laughter from the board slowly increases in volume. Over the screen comes the phrase 'THE END?'

This post has been edited by Colonel Mustard: Apr 18 2013, 11:49 AM

[Kiln]

Very vivid description of what I'm sure was a dead ringer for what actually happened at Bethsoft.

I also greatly appreciated the Bioshock reference.

[Kiln]

I'm heartbroken that there won't be any more DLC. Guess Skyrim will have to join the other games in the "I've played them so much I can't play them anymore" bin and stay there since no future DLC will force me to dig it out again.

[King Of Beasts]

Bethesda has gotta be playing with us. Watch them come out with some gigantic DLC, laugh in our faces, and say "Haha, we fooled ya!"

[Colonel Mustard]

Very vivid description of what I'm sure was a dead ringer for what actually happened at Bethsoft.

I also greatly appreciated the Bioshock reference.

Well, Vorthak the Despoiler was recently featured in Businessman Weekly for his cutting-edge teambuilding techniques such as an office 'Pillageathon'.

Bethesda has gotta be playing with us. Watch them come out with some gigantic DLC, laugh in our faces, and say "Haha, we fooled ya!"

Why would they do that? All that would get them is lost sales and angry customers. Say what you want about Bethesda, they're savvy businesspeople, and savvy enough not to do something like that.

[King Of Beasts]

Why would they do that? All that would get them is lost sales and angry customers. Say what you want about Bethesda, they're savvy businesspeople, and savvy enough not to do something like that

They lie to us a hell lot though, and say things aren't true when they really are, so for all we know, this next "big project" could be a gigantic skyrim DLC, and they're just trynna surprise us

[Colonel Mustard]

Why would they do that? All that would get them is lost sales and angry customers. Say what you want about Bethesda, they're savvy businesspeople, and savvy enough not to do something like that

They lie to us a hell lot though, and say things aren't true when they really are, so for all we know, this next "big project" could be a gigantic skyrim DLC, and they're just trynna surprise us

Yes, but from a marketing perspective, that makes no sense. They wouldn't do something like that because it would lose them sales.

I appreciate that the idea of a large video game publisher showing some kind of awareness of their market is a difficult one to grasp considering the way most publishers act, but Bethesda generally display a great deal of awareness of gauging customer reactions and that sort of thing doesn't really seem their style. The best way to generate hype for a product would be to either announce or tease it, and saying that something is not going to be made in a way as definitive as Bethesda announced it only dampens potential interest; an announcement going "hah! Tricked you!" will probably only get the reaction of people being pissed off and not buying.

[King Of Beasts]

It's not like Bethesda to just abandon a game though. They released what? three DLC's? No plug-ins or large expansion packs. They had bog plans for skyrim, and its not like bethesda to just abandon a bog project that they had so much hard work into!

[Colonel Mustard]

It's not like Bethesda to just abandon a game though. They released what? three DLC's? No plug-ins or large expansion packs. They had bog plans for skyrim, and its not like bethesda to just abandon a bog project that they had so much hard work into!

Scroll up to see my 'The PS3 makes more DLC an unsound business strategy' argument which basically gives my theories on why they've given up on Skyrim DLC.

[King Of Beasts]

I guess time can only tell wether or not Bethesda is being a douche and lying to us, or if they are really working on something new. Lets just wait.

[Kiln]

Why are they making half of the DLC that they've made for several other games? Because they're charging double for it and don't need the revenue associated with dragging out the game with more DLC.

When they have surprise DLC coming they more or less say "we aren't announcing anything yet". In this case they've come right out and said that they're done and moving on to other projects.

Seems like closure to me. I wouldn't count on any more DLC.

[King Of Beasts]

I'm still going to wait for them to either announce this new game, or another DLC.

[ImperialSnob]

I'm still going to wait for them to either announce this new game, or another DLC.

Already confirmed no more DLC.

It's not a DLC or a new game they just wanted to renew the liscense the to the name Redguard.

[Colonel Mustard]

I'm still going to wait for them to either announce this new game, or another DLC.

Kobby, face it. There's no more Skyrim DLC. Accept it and move on with your life; we will all miss it (well, I won't yet, I still haven't got round to buying any of the others, we will all mourn it, but you need to just let go.

[King Of Beasts]

I'm still going to wait for them to either announce this new game, or another DLC.

Kobby, face it. There's no more Skyrim DLC. Accept it and move on with your life; we will all miss it (well, I won't yet, I still haven't got round to buying any of the others, we will all mourn it, but you need to just let go.

I'm starting to get over the shock. Besides, they said they're working on something big, so i'm expecting a large skyrim DLC or Fallout 4. Im sorta hoping for Fo4

[Renee]

Kobby, face it. There's no more Skyrim DLC. Accept it and move on with your life; we will all miss it (well, I won't yet, I still haven't got round to buying any of the others, we will all mourn it, but you need to just let go.

"Kobby". What a cool nickname.

[ImperialSnob]

I'm still going to wait for them to either announce this new game, or another DLC.

Kobby, face it. There's no more Skyrim DLC. Accept it and move on with your life; we will all miss it (well, I won't yet, I still haven't got round to buying any of the others, we will all mourn it, but you need to just let go.

I'm starting to get over the shock. Besides, they said they're working on something big, so i'm expecting a large skyrim DLC or Fallout 4. Im sorta hoping for Fo4

They confirmed themselves that there will never be anymore Skyrim DLC.

[Kiln]

I'm still going to wait for them to either announce this new game, or another DLC.

Kobby, face it. There's no more Skyrim DLC. Accept it and move on with your life; we will all miss it (well, I won't yet, I still haven't got round to buying any of the others, we will all mourn it, but you need to just let go.

I'm starting to get over the shock. Besides, they said they're working on something big, so i'm expecting a large skyrim DLC or Fallout 4. Im sorta hoping for Fo4

They confirmed themselves that there will never be anymore Skyrim DLC.

Exactly. Time to accept that it just isn't happening KoB. The devs are done with it. Confirmation from Bethsoft has been had.

Their next "big project" is either going to be FO4 or the next TES game.