The Nerf-Herders' Rest...(Or...It's A Trap!!...), A Star Wars discussion thread... Options

[McBadgere]

Black and white morality?

You mean the films that culminate in Luke giving in to his anger and pretty much going darkside to beat Vader into the ground and chop off his hand(revenge!), and then goes on to show Vader wasn't actually completely evil, and chose to save his son and kill the Emperor?

Sure, the rebellion versus the Empire might be considered black and white, but the force oriented side of it wasn't.

Yeah, but also showed that in the end...Good wins through, and evil always gets beaten...The hero™ gets the girl...Everybody lives!!!...

Except in the pre-test-screening version that had Lando dying...That got changed...Hence Han's funny feeling about the Falcon, "Like I'm never gonna see her again..."...

I'm glad actually...The novels with Lando in are always excellent... ...


And yes, the whole "Certain point of view." thing does make everything...Wavery on the moral front I suppose...But broadly speaking... ...Black and white...Good-goodies and boo-hiss baddies...

This post has been edited by McBadgere: May 17 2014, 10:12 AM

[Callidus Thorn]

The thing is, I don't think Jedi can be considered "white" in terms of morality in the films. We've got Kenobi and Yoda, doing nothing but hiding out on Tatooine and Dagobah, basically waiting for someone they can set against Vader, who's introduced as the indisputed baddie.

And who do they use? Vader's own son, not that they tell Luke that.

Then there's Yoda telling Luke not to go to Bespin, and pretty much let his friends die, Luke trying to mind control people in order to save Han, and the fact that Vader was never entirely evil.

It might have been lightside versus darkside, but it wasn't really white versus black...

[McBadgere]

Stop that... ...That's...

Bugger...

Yeah, okay...Charcoal & dark-socks-left-in-with-the-whites-wash-white then... ...

[Callidus Thorn]

Stop that... ...That's...

Bugger...

Yeah, okay...Charcoal & dark-socks-left-in-with-the-whites-wash-white then... ...

I think that's why the Jedi vs Sith thing never ended up being clear cut black versus white, just because while the Sith were always painted as black, the Jedi never really measured up to white.

Hel, even Luke Skywalker fell to the darkside, to try and save everyone. And the Jedi characters in games, always in the role of the hero, were always more grey than anything else...

[McBadgere]

But then Luke came back and all was good... ... ...

Stop trying to shake my argument...You can't win Thorny-Boy...If you strike it down I shall become more curmudgeonly than you can possibly imagine... ...

Nah, joking...Fair points all...

But...I still say that they should never have gone as far as they have/did with it...

[Callidus Thorn]

Now there, I completely agree. I stopped reading once it hit the New Jedi Order, and the ones I did read in that sort of area just didn't grab me.

But I think making Jedi grey rather than white made them better, just because it made them actual characters, rather than paragon type deals, while in contrast the Sith were completely consumed by the darkside.

[McBadgere]

But I like paragon types... ...

Nah, it's true...One of my favourite Jedisises - Corran Horn, used to be an undercover operative...So his lying and whatever necessary to get the job done was pretty definitely in the grey area...

Plus, his main force "Talent" was said to be illusion based...All to do with the mind-tricks and everything...

But still, I hope these new ones manage to bring the whole thing up to date and all, but still manage to give that sense of wonder and adventure that the originals had for me anyways...

[Callidus Thorn]

Corran Horn was awesome! Though strictly speaking his main talent was the ability to absorb energy when it struck him, a Halcyon family trait.

As for the new films, I'm expecting more prequel level stuff. Trampling the EU, overblown and underdeveloped, and generally just a Lucas circlejerk.

And the fact that it's J.J.Abrams directing just makes things worse

[mirocu]

The thing is, I don't think Jedi can be considered "white" in terms of morality in the films. We've got Kenobi and Yoda, doing nothing but hiding out on Tatooine and Dagobah, basically waiting for someone they can set against Vader, who's introduced as the indisputed baddie.

And who do they use? Vader's own son, not that they tell Luke that.

Then there's Yoda telling Luke not to go to Bespin, and pretty much let his friends die, Luke trying to mind control people in order to save Han, and the fact that Vader was never entirely evil.

It might have been lightside versus darkside, but it wasn't really white versus black...

Very good points there. Someone has done some thinking, me reckon..

[Callidus Thorn]

Well, I do love the whole Jedi vs Sith thing...

And yeah, maybe a little thought went into it

[McBadgere]

Well that's just over the top...Thinking...Pah...No good ever came from thinking...

Ah, see...Now I like J.J. Abrams stuff...I loved the redone pair of Star Treks...And, as the thing he maintained to Paramount or whoever it was made these last ones, the one thing you have to do with Star Trek to make it better...Is make it like Star Wars...

I'm very happy that he's making them...

No, I'm not happy with the EU stuff...But I can see their point...And it's not like that branch won't be carrying on or anything...There's too much out there now...

As for the Corran thing...Yes, I remember that absorption thing...But I also remember those bits in I, Jedi where he managed to fool most of the Jedi in that circle that he'd lifted the rock...And he hadn't...Then he made the giant figure appear over that city for some reason...I can't remember what...Though that may have had something to do with absorbing energy at the same time, thinking about it...

[Callidus Thorn]

Ah, see...Now I like J.J. Abrams stuff...I loved the redone pair of Star Treks...And, as the thing he maintained to Paramount or whoever it was made these last ones, the one thing you have to do with Star Trek to make it better...Is make it like Star Wars...

I'm very happy that he's making them...

I refuse to watch the new Star Trek movies. Spock screwing with time? In violation of the Temporal Prime Directive? Destroying Vulcan?

Hel, no!

And the idea of one person having effective control over the portrayal of both Star Trek and Star Wars is a very worrying thought...

As for the Corran thing...Yes, I remember that absorption thing...But I also remember those bits in I, Jedi where he managed to fool most of the Jedi in that circle that he'd lifted the rock...And he hadn't...Then he made the giant figure appear over that city for some reason...I can't remember what...Though that may have had something to do with absorbing energy at the same time, thinking about it...

Yeah, he had a natural affinity for affect mind but I figure the Halcyon family trait is the main thing with him. Well, that and the accompanying lack of telekinetic ability. And the giant figure appearing over the city was powered by a firestorm set off when Corran took down that hutt boss, to show everyone that the Jedi survived and to burn off the energy that would otherwise have probably made him explode.

[McBadgere]

Oh aye...Ta...

I must read that again...Definitely my fave SW novel at the time...And, if I could remember it...It might still be... ...

Struggling to think what my favourite might now be, actually...

Likely something Allston wrote anyways... ...

Those Legacy of The Force novels were really pretty excellent...Up until Invincible...Damn you Denning!!!... ...

This post has been edited by McBadgere: May 17 2014, 03:55 PM

[Callidus Thorn]

I'd probably say I, Jedi is my favourite of the bunch. Fighter pilot turned Jedi? Yes please

I never even bothered with the Legacy of the Force series, I figured that skipping The New Jedi Order would mean most of it just wouldn't make sense. That and yet another re-emergence of the Sith...

Wasn't there another galactic civil war in there too?

[McBadgere]

Er...That may have been the ones after them...I haven't done them, despite the Allston-ness of things...Was too pissed at the re-hiring of Denning (Damn you!! )...

The reviews sound like it was good though...

Couldn't tell you if you had to have read the NJO to enjoy Legacy though...Again...Memory being what it is and all... ...My feeling is that you don't...It would be too much for new readers to have to wade through...

Possibly the Correllian trilogy would need reading...There's an awful lot of Thracken Sal-Solo in them...

[Callidus Thorn]

Thracken Sal-Solo?

Meh, I think they're just trying to keep it too much in the family at this point. We've already had a few lightside/darkside family feuds, they need to come up with something more original to get me back into the books.

I'll stick with the pre NJO books


Edit: Troy Denning... He wrote the Joiner King books...

I really didn't like them

This post has been edited by Callidus Thorn: May 17 2014, 04:10 PM

[mirocu]

Hasn´t anyone here but me played Rebellion?

[McBadgere]

Thracken Sal-Solo?

Meh, I think they're just trying to keep it too much in the family at this point. We've already had a few lightside/darkside family feuds, they need to come up with something more original to get me back into the books.

I'll stick with the pre NJO books


Edit: Troy Denning... He wrote the Joiner King books...

I really didn't like them

Han's cousin...Basically took over and ran the Corellian system for many years until Han and Leia paid them a visit and sent everything to crap... ...Corellian Trilogy...

And then many years later he turns up somewhere else (although that may be Corellia again actually) and they have to stop him again in the Legacy ones...

Told you...It's totally ridiculous that they keep hiring Denning...I really can't see why they do it...He has, by the reviews they've got, totally ruined the sequences with both the ending novels he's done...*Shrug*...

Hasn´t anyone here but me played Rebellion?

Nope... ...Sorry, most of the games have passed me by...I wanted to do the Rogue Squadron ones when they were about...But they were X-Box...Pfft... ...




Watched Star Wars last night...Awesome!!!...I loved it!!!..

However...In the end I had to play the grumpy-dad card with McDaughter, cause all she kept doing through the early bits was sigh and complain that it was bad...

In the end I had to politely mention that people obsessed with reality tv have no leg to stand on when it comes to suggesting how good something is or isn't...And that without these early ones that she will shut up and watch properly there wouldn't be the Jar Jar ones that she loves so much...

...I did get quite cross actually...Not that I don't respect her, her opinion on stuff or the fact that she doesn't really like it...

No, I got annoyed 'cause she wouldn't shut up about it...As I said, what does she expect to happen?...I switch it off because she's whining?...

Grrrr...

But right there, there's the point I made earlier...Though McBoy was quite happy and did enjoy it, they both love the pre-sequel ones and sat through them with no complaint...This one...Urgh...Now, yes, McDaughter was overtired a bit from a sleep-over the night before...(I was up doing stuff here before she went to bed there, apparently)...But I really don't think she liked it anyways...*Shrug*...

I thought it was excellent though...And yeah, huge amount of continuity problems since George did the other ones...

Off the top of my head...Vader is my age, apparently...That makes Obi-Wan in his late fifties...Owen and Beru Lars should only be - maybe - slightly older than Vader...Damn that Tattooine triple sun thing's harsh on the skin... ...

Having hung around him loads in The Clone Wars, why didn't R2 just rush over to Obi-Wan and basically start to hump his leg?...

Dunno...

I loved all the practical sets in Star Wars so much...That's one thing I'm hoping J.J. will get back to for these new ones...He was very much arguing for that in Trek...Everything that could be built, was...

So there...Yeah...

This post has been edited by McBadgere: May 18 2014, 05:54 AM

[mirocu]

I did try Rogue Squadron on the PC a few years back. It was just a demo but still quite fun

[Callidus Thorn]

Han's cousin...Basically took over and ran the Corellian system for many years until Han and Leia paid them a visit and sent everything to crap... ...Corellian Trilogy...

I think I've actually got those somewhere, but for some reason I never got around to reading them...

Hasn´t anyone here but me played Rebellion?

Nope... ...Sorry, most of the games have passed me by...I wanted to do the Rogue Squadron ones when they were about...But they were X-Box...Pfft... ...

Rogue Squadron? They were Nintendo, not Xbox. N64 for the first, Gamecube for two and three. And of course there was Rogue Squadron for the PC. I've played both the Gamecube ones, still have the second, 'cos it's better

Watched Star Wars last night...Awesome!!!...I loved it!!!..

However...In the end I had to play the grumpy-dad card with McDaughter, cause all she kept doing through the early bits was sigh and complain that it was bad...

In the end I had to politely mention that people obsessed with reality tv have no leg to stand on when it comes to suggesting how good something is or isn't...And that without these early ones that she will shut up and watch properly there wouldn't be the Jar Jar ones that she loves so much...

So true, the underlined, so very true

I thought it was excellent though...And yeah, huge amount of continuity problems since George did the other ones...

Off the top of my head...Vader is my age, apparently...That makes Obi-Wan in his late fifties...Owen and Beru Lars should only be - maybe - slightly older than Vader...Damn that Tattooine triple sun thing's harsh on the skin... ...

Having hung around him loads in The Clone Wars, why didn't R2 just rush over to Obi-Wan and basically start to hump his leg?...

Dunno...

Wait, so this was the version where Greedo shot first?

But yeah, the prequels introduced a truckload of continuity problems, personally I find itrther funny that Lucas can't keep continuity in his own, rather small, Star Wars Universe

And he got way too carried away with R2D2 in the prequels, it was just ridiculous.