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> Forsworn Hearthfires?, What, why, how, where?
ghastley
post Nov 14 2016, 04:05 PM
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I've had numerous people ask me what's next in the Hearthfires series, and one suggested Forsworn. I initially rejected the idea, as they usually live in tent camps, or have a resident hagraven if they live anywhere else. Even in the later case, they'll still pitch tents inside whatever structure they're using.

But that shouldn't completely rule this out. If a Forsworn bed is actually a skin tent with a hay pile and fur inside it, that's quite constructible, and the rest of the space can have normal furniture, crafting stations etc.

So now I'm trying to decide what to build inside. A cave is probably easiest, just needing a hole in a hillside somewhere in the Reach, but a tower/ruin entrance is also feasible for a bit of architectural variety.

Hagravens and briarhearts seem to go together, but are possibly a faction that doesn't align with Madanach, although you do find a briarheart at Druadach Redoubt. So I'm considering a post-Cidhna quest to go establish a new camp, as part of the new Reachman kingdom. Find your empty tower/ruin/cave and furnish, then the recruits will arrive to join you. No briarhearts or hagravens will turn up, as you're in charge, and those are "boss" characters.

I may still have a mage NPC that's considering the change into a hagraven, and even started the process. That could provide a sub-quest to reverse it, after she changes her mind.

Dialogue could be the usual issue, but there should be some already around for Forsworn talking to each other. Merchant dialogue for smith, alchemist, should also be there in a Breton voice.

---

The other project that was Breton-specific, was the Red Witch, but that has issues with a lack of sailor dialogue, and I'd have a lot of work to do converting it to be build-your-own. The former is much more of a show-stopper, as it needs multiple voices, and I only have one.


SubRosa - I edited the title to fix a typo.


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Acadian
post Nov 14 2016, 04:18 PM
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Why am I getting visions of a hagraven with d-cups? ohmy.gif biggrin.gif


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Grits
post Nov 14 2016, 04:30 PM
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I used Druadach Redoubt slightly tweaked for my Forsworn base when I played one, and there were some things I liked a lot about it. The opening in the ceiling allowed light in, which made trees and a small garden plausible. The friendly goat added nice domestic sounds, though I did wonder why it wasn't eating the crops. Multiple levels with water running through made it interesting, and of course I added the crafting stations with storage that my guy needed. Plus I made some of the residents followers so that he could lead his squad around causing mayhem. If I did it again I would probably make one of them a merchant with the idea that they would go in disguise to trade with local Forsworn sympathizers. Just some ideas of stuff I would end up suggesting if you do this. biggrin.gif


Acadian, LOL! Now I can't un-see that!! laugh.gif


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ghastley
post Nov 14 2016, 06:05 PM
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Yes, that's the vibe I was thinking of. It wants a waterfall into a bathing pool, and maybe a piece of ruin tower for the master bedroom, so the player can have a real bed. The goat needs to be penned, and maybe there should be more than one.

The piece of ruin could house the pre-hagraven, too. She'd want a bit of privacy for the change process, perhaps. I'll have to look at combining parts of Druadach and Red Eagle's Ascent, maybe even add in a bit of dwemer just to be different.

Part of the idea comes from this mod. I'd re-make the skin texture myself, with a somewhat different pattern of growing feathers. I'd probably give her clawed hands and feet, although not as extreme as the full hagraven, just a bit scrawnier than human.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Nov 14 2016, 10:55 PM


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ghastley
post Nov 16 2016, 05:12 PM
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QUOTE(Acadian @ Nov 14 2016, 10:18 AM) *

Why am I getting visions of a hagraven with d-cups? ohmy.gif biggrin.gif

I've started work on the hagraven "chick", as I think of her. I'm taking the skin texture, and painting a new layer of pin-feathers where the "adult" or transformed version has full ones. She also has clawed feet, based on the hagraven ones, but not quite fully formed.

She's using the UNP Petite body (which ranges from AA to a small B-cup), as I'm thinking that she was selected as being small and weak as a human. She may even get scaled down from 0.95 to 0.9. The conversion isn't voluntary, and she's shackled to a wall while it proceeds. She'll have a few changes of outfit for the cure and after, all using the same body with different textures and clothing. She ends up as the resident alchemist/mage.

Backstory will be that Madanach, after you help him get out of Cidhna Mine, wants to get control back from the hagravens that have been subverting his Reachmen. You'll be sent a missive asking you to rescue the chick, and establish a new pro-Madanach group. The cave will be empty of all but one hagraven and her victim, and then you'll furnish and populate it - i.e. forsworn will move in when it's "ready", and I have to figure out what that means as a minimum level of completion. It may work like the Thieves Guild and the Ragged Flagon, with new recruits arriving as their accommodations are ready.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Nov 16 2016, 05:15 PM


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ghastley
post Sep 6 2022, 02:59 PM
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I dug this out of my archives at the weekend, to see where I left off. It appears that quite a lot was done, but I had only worked on it for SE. The hagraven chick needed more feathers, the cave had no external entrance, and there was no sign of a quest to get it all going, but those are easier than the building work.

This may come back to life, as I have the mod urge again, and ESO add-ons are not for me.

And there are at least two mods for hagravens, but … my chick is going in the opposite direction.

It needs a recipe for the “cure” for the hagraven transformation, but my current idea is to have Bothela in Markarth make it. She will ask you for a lot of ingredients, but not confirm that they are needed for the potion. Most will just replenish her stocks as payment. That means you can’t make it yourself, and I may make it a repeating quest. The transformation could recur if not regularly treated. Undecided on that part, as players don’t like chores.

Quest considerations: Madanach must be free, so the other quest is a hard pre-requisite. Civil War does not appear to affect it, but may block access to some NPCs at times. Forsworn do not currently change disposition to the player, except the ones at Druadach, which might make recruiting an issue.



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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Dec 3 2022, 08:17 PM
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I am currently playing a version of Brenna in Skyrim SE who just helped Madanach escape from Markarth. I used a mod that turned Forsworn everywhere friendly so I’ve been looking for a home in The Reach that isn’t the Markarth house. Have you published this? I’d very much like to try it!


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ghastley
post Dec 3 2022, 08:52 PM
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It’s nowhere near usable yet, as the cave is almost empty. It does have a location, an entrance, and a shackled hagraven-under-construction, whom you can’t yet release. And a goat.

Bothela is getting a few new lines of dialog via xVASynth, so she can help create a potion to let the girl stop becoming a hagraven, and revert. Her voice seemed to work nicely when I tested it, which is what reminded me about this project. Plus, she would only need a couple of conversations, one to ask for her help, and one when you pick up the results.

The major part will be scripting the build, but if your main interest is in the finished home, I might have you try that out when I get that completed. It has to be constructed first, before the build process hides it all, and reveals as you fashion the pieces. I can leave the young mage who is not becoming a hagraven in it as your first recruit. Feedback on her, and the layout/content, early in the build will help avoid problems later.

Knowing there is interest raises the priority of this one, but voicing Orc Hearthfires 2.0 still comes first. I’ll see if what exists can be packaged up, or if it needs more added right away.

Edit: I took another look, as perhaps it's not all that empty. It does have all the crafting facilities - grindstone, forge, armorer workbench, as well as alchemy and enchanting in the "tower" part. There's a player bed, but little else in the tower, too. It wouldn't take long to drop in a few more bits of furniture up there. The tents for the forsworn "staff" are there, but with no way to assign them to anyone you bring home. If "Make Yourself at Home" got ported up to SE, I think that has what you'd need to do that.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Dec 3 2022, 09:14 PM


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Dec 3 2022, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Dec 3 2022, 01:52 PM) *

It’s nowhere near usable yet, as the cave is almost empty. It does have a location, an entrance, and a shackled hagraven-under-construction, whom you can’t yet release. And a goat.

Bothela is getting a few new lines of dialog via xVASynth, so she can help create a potion to let the girl stop becoming a hagraven, and revert. Her voice seemed to work nicely when I tested it, which is what reminded me about this project. Plus, she would only need a couple of conversations, one to ask for her help, and one when you pick up the results.

The major part will be scripting the build, but if your main interest is in the finished home, I might have you try that out when I get that completed. It has to be constructed first, before the build process hides it all, and reveals as you fashion the pieces. I can leave the young mage who is not becoming a hagraven in it as your first recruit. Feedback on her, and the layout/content, early in the build will help avoid problems later.

Knowing there is interest raises the priority of this one, but voicing Orc Hearthfires 2.0 still comes first. I’ll see if what exists can be packaged up, or if it needs more added right away.

Edit: I took another look, as perhaps it's not all that empty. It does have all the crafting facilities - grindstone, forge, armorer workbench, as well as alchemy and enchanting in the "tower" part. There's a player bed, but little else in the tower, too. It wouldn't take long to drop in a few more bits of furniture up there. The tents for the forsworn "staff" are there, but with no way to assign them to anyone you bring home. If "Make Yourself at Home" got ported up to SE, I think that has what you'd need to do that.

I’m using a mod that allows you to commission weapons and armor from blacksmiths, as well as enchantments from enchanters. They use basic responses that are already programmed such as “Of course” or even one that sounds like you are bothering them like “Ugggh”, lol

Maybe you could use something programmed by Bethesda for the pickup response.

This post has been edited by TheCheshireKhajiit: Dec 3 2022, 09:25 PM


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ghastley
post Dec 3 2022, 09:31 PM
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Here's a sample of Bothela's voice from xVASynth. This is without any manual tweaking. And I won't need that part until I wrap the story around the build.

If you want to try out the home early, I can put that together fairly soon.


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Dec 3 2022, 10:27 PM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Dec 3 2022, 02:31 PM) *

Here's a sample of Bothela's voice from xVASynth. This is without any manual tweaking. And I won't need that part until I wrap the story around the build.

If you want to try out the home early, I can put that together fairly soon.

I mean, don’t rush yourself, but yeah I’d love to check it out!


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ghastley
post Dec 6 2022, 10:46 PM
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This link should get you the base cave. It's just an esp, as the assets are all vanilla, and no bsa is needed (yet), The hagraven chick is disabled, so her body/outfit should not be requested.

The player room is sparsely furnished at present. The crafting facilities are all in other parts, so it just has a bed, table/chairs, a wardrobe and nightstands, and lights around the room. I'm looking for your ideas on what to add. There are plenty of alcoves for mannequins, shelves, cupboards etc.

There is no quest yet, so no new scripts needed. The cave is near the route from Salvius Farm to Ragnvald, so you should see the cave marker on your compass as you get close to the ruin.


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Dec 7 2022, 03:10 AM
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QUOTE(ghastley @ Dec 6 2022, 03:46 PM) *

This link should get you the base cave. It's just an esp, as the assets are all vanilla, and no bsa is needed (yet), The hagraven chick is disabled, so her body/outfit should not be requested.

The player room is sparsely furnished at present. The crafting facilities are all in other parts, so it just has a bed, table/chairs, a wardrobe and nightstands, and lights around the room. I'm looking for your ideas on what to add. There are plenty of alcoves for mannequins, shelves, cupboards etc.

There is no quest yet, so no new scripts needed. The cave is near the route from Salvius Farm to Ragnvald, so you should see the cave marker on your compass as you get close to the ruin.

Cool! I’ll check it out!


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ghastley
post Dec 28 2022, 05:01 PM
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I have made some progress on this. The common furnishings in the tower part are now noble, and everything you will build is named, linked to whatever enables with it, and disabled. I can now check the empty site, and add in some hagraven things that will get unmade when you construct.

I added the hagraven, and my level 9 test character manages to kill her, even though hagravens are level 20. She’ll get disabled soon, as having to kill her every time I restart gets tiring. Because I’m constantly changing the quest properties, I have to start from a save before the quest is added, so I have one just after completing Cidhna Mine, without this mod.

Once all the furnishings, before and after varieties, are in place, then I can create the misc item tokens, for building them, with recipes, sequence checks like creating the table before the crafting stations that sit on it, etc. Then flesh out the story quest which is just an outline at present.

It will take a number of iterations of adding more constructible furnishings as they get requested. I’m about to add a mannequin for the Armor of the Old Gods that you get from the pre-requisite quest, but I can’t decide where to place it. Tower is private quarters, cave is communal, and there are good arguments for each. There will be quite a few more like that. Do weapon racks belong near forge etc., or near their owner? Where does Drusilla live, after she gets cured?

I am also trying to sort out the lore with Hircine and Dibella, who both feature in Forsworn worship. Hircine for the hagraven transformation, and possibly Briarhearts. Dibella may be the hagravens’ pet hate, and the defiled statues reflect that, but some Forsworn settlements have her shrines, too. The Sybil story doesn’t need to link into this, but should be consistent. Kynareth gets a linkage via the Eldergreen story to hagravens, but that is a weaker connection. You will make a Dibella Shrine furnishing, but the other two are under consideration.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Dec 28 2022, 05:12 PM


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ghastley
post Jan 1 2023, 07:20 PM
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I'm starting on the grind of creating the Misc Item tokens for construction, and their Constructible Object recipes. These are mostly clones of the BYOH ones, but everything needs the attached scripts replaced, item Id re-assigned etc.

The letter from Madanach that starts it all off may get delivered by a forsworn, if I get all the ducks in the right row. So far I have managed to spawn one in the right location near the player, nut without a valid package, or dialog to make the delivery. And each of those depends on the other, and dialog sharing (so he can use the existing dialog) is broken in the CK. It will probably get to beta with the regular courier.

I'm also struggling to decide on what the player gets sent to do while Drusilla transforms back from a part-hagraven to a normal (if scrawny) forsworn mage. It could be as simple as reporting progress to Madanach in person. I think you can go to Druadach Redoubt without a fight at this stage, as you have done Cidhna Mine in order to start it. However, logic suggests that you'd wait to see if the potion worked before telling him.

I'm also having issues with making weight-adjusting clothing. I'd like Drusilla to grow a bit as she recovers, maybe up to weight 30, but if I don't sort out my workflow, she'll be stuck at 0. Her feathers and claws "suit" only needs the one weight, as she needs to be cured before she can grow anyway. I want her to have a unique outfit so that she doesn't get lost among the recruits once the place is fully established.

The esp I put together for Khajiit had a vegetable garden and grain mill. I may make that space a choice between that and a plant-your-own alchemy space using the BYOH planting soil patches.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Jan 1 2023, 07:25 PM


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ghastley
post Jan 6 2023, 01:14 AM
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Working on the hagraven cure, and the big decision is what ingredients Bothela should ask for. My current thinking is that she wants to use the magical properties you would associate with Hirciine (transformation), and Namira (decay), as those would be in the potion that Magora the hagraven was using, but counteracted with ones for Dibella (beauty) and Kynareth (nature).

So that means:
predator animal parts - Bear claws, Sabre Cat eye/teeth - for Hircine
fungi for Namira, but maybe not Namira's Rot.
Flowers for Dibella
feathers. eggs, and Spriggans for Kynareth

Hawk feathers also have curative properties, so I think they're a given. It makes a good fetch quest if the selected items are well-scattered across the map, too. Magora the hagraven drops hagraven feathers always, and possible other ingredients, from the standard hagraven death items, which makes hagraven feathers too easy.

Spriggans are hagraven enemies, so sap/taproot is likely. That's my main reason for the Kynareth connection. Namira/Dibella is not so clear, but looks like a decent basis. Ingredients with Cure Disease or Restore Health should probably get favored over others that fit. So Blisterwort would be a good fungal candidate.

Opinions?





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SubRosa
post Jan 6 2023, 01:27 AM
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Maybe instead of a regular ingredient, the Dibella component could be a statue of Dibella? Or an amulet of Dibella?


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ghastley
post Jan 9 2023, 06:31 PM
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I picked a set of six ingredients that made sense, and committed it to a "book" item. I had considered generating it as a "pick six from this larger formlist" but decided it wasn't worth the effort for a minor detail of one quest.

I'm still looking for a way to trigger detection of the list being completed. Currently the dialog with Bothela checks if you have it all, but the player is responsible for comparing their inventory to the list to know when to return. The quest stages have been set up so you can go back when you decide, or when notified, so that detail can come later.

I've run through everything with a test character, and built all the items. The courier bringing the letter is the standard one, but I'm working on a Forsworn one to swap in if it works. I had to console add an Amulet of Dibella to make the shrine, as there is no guaranteed drop, just random chance. But then the recipe worked, so all is good. There are a lot of additions since the pre-built one I posted for Khajiit. More storage, mannequins, etc., a bed for Drusilla, bookcase, chairs. The weapon rack near the entrance is now using Player home activators, so it lets you add, not just remove, weapons.

There is still some work at either end. I have to sort out the Story Manager details for starting the quest. SM detects level-up, and will spawn a kicker quest to check if you've done Cidhna Mine with the right outcome. SM won't spawn the building quest directly, so the attempt can fail if it's triggered too soon, and try again later. This prevents problems if you level up during the escape. At the opposite end, I have to come up with a way to recruit the Forsworn who will live there. It may be a case of using Drusilla as a steward, so she hires when you ask her, or they could arrive on their own over time, or you could convert followers, like the Blades.

Drusilla has two outfits so far. There's the Feathers and claws one she uses before the cure, and a short robe that covers where she's moulting, with boots over her still-scaly, but normally-shaped feet. At some point she'll need a Forsworn variant that's unique to her. Maybe just a texture variant, but she has a supply of her own feathers she may not want to waste.

This post has been edited by ghastley: Jan 10 2023, 03:23 PM


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post Jan 15 2023, 10:57 PM
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I still haven’t gotten around to looking at this. I’m glad you are still working on it!


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ghastley
post Jan 18 2023, 08:15 PM
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Progress so far: I have run three test characters from game start, through the Forsworn Conspiracy and Nobody Escapes Cidhna Mine quests, and this one fired up after their first level up after that. The last two times, it was their first level up! All the stages play out, the spoken dialog from xVASynth works, and everything gets made correctly. I have had to give the player an amulet of Dibella, to make the shrine, as there is no guaranteed drop for that. Everything else is available, and you can even buy Eye of Sabre Cat before they start to appear in the wild.

One test run failed because Madanach was killed during the breakout. I think that happened because my character got ahead of the prisoners, and I reloaded and tried again from the tunnel exit without repeating the error. I believe that Madanach needs to exit Markarth before the player, but I will have to check the scripting to be sure. The prisoners may be protected until you leave the city, and lose that when you do. If so, I’ll add that note to the documentation. My quest needs Madanach and Kaie to survive, but I would prefer not to edit them.

All these tests have stopped at the same stage in the quest, as I have to decide on the continuation after building, including when to call it “done”. This will not be a family home, as it has no child beds or chests, so Hearthfires Adoptions are not possible. That would have given me a clear definition of complete, as there is a list of required items to provide. Without one, I may have to settle on making the two beds as the cut-off, and find an appropriate event for checking it. Maybe leaving the crafting trigger?

This can then start another quest, or series, that adds more followers. Madanach can set new missions via messages to Drusilla, which she mentions in conversation, once there is a tent for a follower to use. Radiant quests to kill hagravens, harrass Nords etc. would work for those. There are five tents, so up to five new NPCs. I am testing with Kaie’s sisters/cousins Jaie, Elle, Emma, and Enya, who may make it into the mod. Right now, I use them to check the sandboxing around the cell, including the nav-mesh.

There is an idle marker under the waterfall, so they shower, but it just has the praying idle attached at present. That will get a new animation, or possibly an undress/shower/dress scene using a basket or chest to hold the clothes. It looks possible to trigger a quest which just wraps a scene, from an idle marker that is eligible for sandboxing.

I need to test the general mechanism, and that could become a separate resource mod, as I can think of several other compound idles that might work this way. Chop wood, and then carry it, fetch a bucket of water, all things that need a sequence of packages linked together. The game has characters that do sequences of actions like these, but those are AI packages permanently on the NPC, not sandbox activities. And if it doesn’t work, the shower will just remain a plain idle marker, even if they use it dressed. Clothes need washing, too. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by ghastley: Jan 18 2023, 08:17 PM


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