I Kind of Feel as though I'm weird...My Favourite Bethesda (developed) Games are.... Options

[ArtemisNoir]

Morrowind and Fallout 4.
I mean, many, if not most, people would consider these two games to be entirely antithetical to another. The thing is, I'm not fully sure why I respond in this way. Maybe because they're perhaps the most focused on narrative, which tends to be my strong preference. Granted, FO4, has its issues, and parts of its story most definitely aren't as well implemented as they could be, but, at the same time, the NPCs, and especially the companions, are the most fully realised of any Bethesda game. So... maybe that's it ??? Plus, given I couldn't make a mod, even if my soul depended on it, I enjoy the building elements of FO4 when I'm feeling creative, and the world is fun to explore.
Don't get me wrong, I genuinely enjoy: Oblivion, Skyrim and FO3, but none have ever grabbed me like Morrowind and FO4.

Any thoughts on the whole subject? I'm always at a loss in figuring out what makes me truly love a game. There's just something indefinable and elusive that simply clicks.

This post has been edited by ArtemisNoir: Feb 19 2023, 10:51 PM

[Renee]

Oh no, you're fine! We all have our preferences.

Back in the day (a decade ago) I would often feel as though I was the weird one because no matter what, I simply couldn't pick favorites. I loved Oblivion and Skyrim equally, vanilla or modded. So whenever a "OB vs. Sky" thread would get posted I'd be the only one asking "Where's the option for both?"

But we all have preferences. Some folks won't touch anything after Daggerfall, others won't play anything but Morrowind, and so on.

I'd have to say my faves are Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, all 3 of those games are tied equally for me. I like Arena a bit less than those three, yet never could get into Daggerfall much.

I like Fallout out a bit less than Elder Scrolls; I guess I'm more fascinated with medieval-inspired fantasy. Fallout 3 surprised me though. I didn't expect to like that game as much as I did. ☢

[Acadian]

I think your last sentence nails it. And I think there are likely as many answers as there are players.

In my case, gaming is all about my one and only character (Buffy) who comfortably travels time and even between worlds. I travel as an ancient spirit she carries within her. With many years and many thousands of hours gaming together, we truly approach our gaming as 'we', and view whatever game we are currently playing as simply a home to adventure in together.

As far as what makes a good game for us, there are several considerations:

We have a strong preference for the medieval fantasy rpg genre. TES fits the bill but we'd would have no qualms moving to another franchise if it better suited our purpose.

Open world, massive scale and neverending is important since, when we do deem a game suitable, we generally stay there for thousands of game hours. MMOs cover the mass and scale with the bonus of a dynamic world. . . but carry the drawback of, well, multiplayer. Buffy and I play to spend time adventuring together, NOT to spend time with humans from 21st century earth. We are currently playing ESO; its beauty, mass, scale, dynamic world and solid ability to support solo play adequately compensate for the drawbacks of multiplayer.

We generally rule out games where you are handed your character instead of creating your own. . . unless the issued protagonist is reasonably suitable for my elf to play (she doesn't have to be an elf). Horizon Zero Dawn is about as far out there as we might consider regarding being issued a character for her to play.

Being small and fragile, Buffy rejects melee combat so the typical trope of backing up archery with a dagger is no go. Backing up archery with magic is just fine but limits the number of suitable games.

She is an adventurer, not a kingdom builder, so strategy games where you build up to eventually ruling the world are out.

[TheCheshireKhajiit]

I can’t be unbiased towards Morrowind. Being my first TES game, it just holds such a special place in my heart. I thoroughly enjoy the other TES games that have come since (never bothered to try Daggerfall and Arena), but Morrowind just seemed so much more magical (I suppose both literally and figuratively as there are so many more spells to learn, lol).

As for Fallout, I’d say it’s 3, New Vegas, then 4 for me. 3 was my first Fallout game, and I have played the crap out of it. New Vegas improved on 3 in almost every way, except it was frustratingly more buggy. 4 is probably the most stable BGS game ever, but the story really irked me. I love the crafting and building aspects of the game but feel there should’ve been fewer settlement sites. I’m also not a super big fan of the voiced protagonist. All of that said, I’ve had a blast (pun absolutely intended) playing Fallout 4, so I definitely don’t consider it a bad game by any means.

This post has been edited by TheCheshireKhajiit: Feb 20 2023, 01:48 PM

[Lena Wolf]

Open world, massive scale and neverending is important since, when we do deem a game suitable, we generally stay there for thousands of game hours. MMOs cover the mass and scale with the bonus of a dynamic world. . . but carry the drawback of, well, multiplayer. Buffy and I play to spend time adventuring together, NOT to spend time with humans from 21st century earth.

Exactly! This is my sentiment too.

I found Oblivion to be the game the world for me. And since I moved from consoles to PC last year and learned making mods, Oblivion has gained the infinity that it was lacking. New provinces, new characters, new adventures - I drag all that I enjoyed in other games into Oblivion, seen through its prism and altered to suit. Nowadays, I play my own game, I no longer need pre-written quests and adventures.

That is not to say that I don't play other games or mods made by others... I do. The question is however whether I'd play it more than once or twice. And if the answer is yes, then chances are that some elements of that would find their way into Oblivion eventually...

But to answer the question of this thread directly: Bethesda games. My first one was Oblivion, then I played Morrowind, Skyrim, one or the other Fallout. But I found that I dislike post-apocalyptic games, and in particular the modern and everyday aspects of Fallout, so I never went back to that. Skyrim bored me eventually (after I clocked a thousand of hours or more), Morrowind... well... I couldn't get through the politics (who cares!), the rudeness of the NPCs and the walls of text... But Oblivion was just right. Nowadays I have Morroblivion, so no more walls of text and the NPCs are talking, but the politics are still there and I found myself bored with the main quest. I know I just uttered a blasphemous statement... But I am not afraid of Azura.

[mirocu]

Oblivion and Fallout 3 here, to no one's surprise. I have played and enjoyed Arena and Morrowind, but home has always been Oblivion.

I like Fallout out a bit less than Elder Scrolls; I guess I'm more fascinated with medieval-inspired fantasy. Fallout 3 surprised me though. I didn't expect to like that game as much as I did. ☢

100% same. I rejected Fallout 3 for the longest time as I couldn't see the appeal of a destroyed world when I had the lush forests of Cyrodiil. But to my absolute surprise; when I eventually tried it I LOVED it! Yes the world was burnt but there was so much to do and so many places to go to, just like in Oblivion! Needless to say I don't regret installing it

strategy games where you build up to eventually ruling the world are out.

So no ruling the entire galaxy in Star Wars: Rebellion?

I can’t be unbiased towards Morrowind. Being my first TES game, it just holds such a special place in my heart.

Exactly how I feel about Oblivion. Your first will always be special, amirite?

Morrowind... well... I couldn't get through the politics (who cares!), the rudeness of the NPCs and the walls of text... But Oblivion was just right.

[Renee]

100% same. I rejected Fallout 3 for the longest time as I couldn't see the appeal of a destroyed world when I had the lush forests of Cyrodiil. But to my absolute surprise; when I eventually tried it I LOVED it! Yes the world was burnt but there was so much to do and so many places to go to, just like in Oblivion! Needless to say I don't regret installing it

Me too. I took Fallout literally for its name... I thought the entire game would be set in the midst of a nuclear war. For those of us who grew up during the 1970s-1980s, us kids lived with the fear of WW3 happening for many years, and I didn't want to be reminded of that. ☢

Then Lopov told me FO3 is set in the D.C. area, which I didn't know. Since I live about 40 minutes north, I decided I at least have to check the game out, just for that. Right away the game caught my imagination, since we start as a baby! And I did not expect all the humor. The entire tutorial had me cracking up: the Tunnel Snakes, the G.O.A.T., the part when the robot tried to cut my character's birthday cake and icing flew all over the place! Even the Overseer made me LOL at the way he was so pedantic.

And then when Cho Zen Wan first left the vault I actually cried. Seeing my "home" all torn up like that had an awesome effect on me. I was hooked.

This post has been edited by Renee: Feb 20 2023, 06:38 PM

[SubRosa]

My first Bethesda game was Oblivion. And I still love it. Both because it was my first Beth game, and just because it has come to epitomize what I look for in a game: the open world and freedom to create any kind of character I want, and to go anywhere and do anything in the world I want.

I have given up Morrowind. I have played it several times, all the way through. But the last time I tried, I just could not bring myself to do it. I think it is the NPCs that ultimately make it unplayable for me. They are not people. They are information terminals that I can use to access huge amounts of data. That is all. Even with all the limitations that the other games have, at least their NPCs feel like people to me.

And since I got Morroblivion working, I have been able to play Morrowind via the Oblivion game engine. That fixed the things I dislike about it. So for me that is the best of both worlds. I like Morroblivion a lot, and often go there with my characters of late.

I don't think I have a favorite Bethesda game. I enjoy Skyrim. I enjoy Oblivion. I enjoy Fallout 3. Those are certainly my top 3 of them all.

Fallout 4 is fun, but I really hate the main quest, and the way all the faction questlines are in actuality the main quest. You cannot do one without the other. So I never do them at all after the one time I did it as the Railroad. That and the load times between cells are just insanely long. Especially in downtown Boston. I took to listening to podcasts during loading screens, since they take so long.

OTOH it has the best crafting system yet. Junk items actually have value, because you can build a nuclear reactor with an old toaster, some silverware, and the radioactive blood of a mutant animal. I really like how you can upgrade weapons and armor in the game. It allows you to keep the same weapon you started the game with, you just keep updating it, along with your weapon skill, and it scales with you and the gameworld.

I like the Fallout games in general because of the twisted sense of humor they have. In other games gold and jewels are treasure. In Fallout the garbage of the old world is treasure. An old bottle of glue, a deflated basketball, an alarm clock, a tin can, etc... All are priceless artifacts worth killing over. Plus you can listen to the radio in the game and hear some equally darkly comedic tunes, and hear the DJ talking about your exploits.

[Decrepit]

I guess I'm sort of lucky in that my first Elder Scrolls game was Arena. While I enjoyed it very much, I have no "first love" sentimentality toward it. Were I to rank individual entries, highest to lowest, my order would be First: highly modded Oblivion, second: Daggerfall Unity with lots of graphical enhancers but almost no play-altering mods, third: modded Morrowind, fourth: modded Skyrim, fifth; Arena.

Were mods removed from the picture, for me an impossibility, I'd pick Daggerfall my favorite long-term entry, Oblivion my favorite short-term entry, with the remainder unchanged. However, Morrowind would be a noticeably closer-to-second third.

Were I typing this some other day, a few placements might change, but don't ask how. I've no idea.

This post has been edited by Decrepit: Feb 20 2023, 11:08 PM

[ghastley]

Wait, you can play these games without Mods? Maybe that's why I never finished Arena.

I've played an Orc in Oblivion, Skyrim, Morrowind, and even in Daggerfall, where my modding contribution was to add Orcs as playable. I now play Orcs in ESO.

And all the other races, but gotta have Orcs!

Oh, and of course you're weird. That's why you're here with the rest of us.

[Renee]

Oh, and of course you're weird. That's why you're here with the rest of us.

Win!

[macole]

I knew if I waited long enough others would eventually mention everything I was thinking.

First I will mention that Daggerfall was my first TES game. It is the only one that I haven’t completed and positively the only one where I’ve played more than one character after the initial test character. I so loved the char-gen that hundreds of Agents were born. And the entombment cut scene when I died was all the encouragement I needed to roll a new character. Besides, there were no field hippies around to perform the ritual.

For Daggerfall you need the right atmosphere; a dark secluded room, dank soot covered stone walls that smell of age old dust, and a loud drippy laundry faucet (plip… plip… plip). My basement had a coal bin room that fit the bill perfectly. I’ve since washed the walls and turned it into a photo darkroom (I still do film now and then).

Morrowind came next. Love the flora and fauna, hated the segmented bodies and the constant running from back and forth between Balmora and Vivec City or at least it seemed like it. A few months of that and I quit. Ran off to play Rome, Total War. For years I was lost fighting amazons in the hills of Galatia.

Along came Oblivion and from the moment my Agent first stepped out of sewers to see the light of day it was pure Kodachrome
They give us those nice bright colors
They give us the greens of summers
Makes you think all the world's a sunny day, oh yeah
I got a Nikon camera
I love to take a photograph
So mama, don't take my Kodachrome away.

My character had developed into a non-cannon elf character with a history. Well he is a connon race but you have to dig into the lore books to understand where he comes from. Plus by now I had discovered the Nexus and became a mod junkie. This was the first TES game that I ran through the main quest.

Finally Beth released Skyrim which I put off playing for a couple years. When I did pick it up, it was a Morrowind experience. Dingy washed out colors, weak pathetic magic, near instant guild promotion, and so many other things that it just wasn’t fun. After six months I had completed the MQ and was wondering what to do now. After learning that TES VI is running years lat I knew what I was to do.

I resurrected my Oblivion character's story and started him from the beginning in Arena. I’ve watched him grow through Arena, Daggerfall (best magic in the series, feel the power), a 3-year stint in Morrowind, (which I now see in a new light. Make a mod or two, put a bounty on Vivec’s head, and take the backdoor to the MQ. Oh and don’t forget to find your Kaleah), and Oblivion (where the Field Hippies come to play). Who knows I may even have time to step into Skyrim again, this time with a purpose.

Fallout series, I’m a child of the 60’s and 70’s. We knew what the interstate highways were for. Get the hell out of Dodge when the sirens go off. I played FO4 for a bit but never was hooked.
One last thing, there was a time when I played Daggerfall on Wednesday, Morrowind on Friday, and Oblivion on Saturday.

Nothing weird here. Bizarre maybe but not weird.

[Renee]

For Daggerfall you need the right atmosphere; a dark secluded room, dank soot covered stone walls that smell of age old dust, and a loud drippy laundry faucet (plip… plip… plip). My basement had a coal bin room that fit the bill perfectly.

Maybe this is why I have trouble getting into Daggerfall; I need to convert my gaming den into an actual dungeon!

Kidding. Anyway, today's song is Neil Simon *DING!*

This post has been edited by Renee: Feb 21 2023, 04:34 PM

[SubRosa]

Ran off to play Rome, Total War. For years I was lost fighting amazons in the hills of Galatia.

I have spent years playing Rome Total War as well. I created the Amazon: Total War mod way back in the day. Eventually I got burned out and moved on. Someone else took up the mod to continue working on it. I still pull out the game to play every few years though.

[WellTemperedClavier]

Morrowind.

I actually came to Morrowind pretty late, playing it for the first time in the winter of '09/'10. Fell in love with the setting, and have been obsessed ever since, even to the point of joining a mod team. It's pretty rare these days to have a setting that resonates with me. As others have said, while Oblivion and Skyrim feel like other places, Morrowind feels like another planet.

I played Skyrim about five years later, and Oblivion (for the first time!) about five years after that. I've actually come to prefer Oblivion, since Skyrim's gameplay feels too much like an FPS to me. My only real complaints about Oblivion's gameplay are the leveling (which can be fixed with mods) and the sheer size of the dungeons.

My history with Fallout goes back a lot further than my history with TES. I played Fallout 1 back in the mid-'90s, and the second game in the early '00s. I had fun with 3 and 4, but I usually prefer the non-Bethesda Fallout games. I replayed 1 a few years ago, and it was astonishing how utterly desolate the game felt. Even if you win, humanity's future seems in doubt.

But then you see how things are picking up in F2, and by NV they're getting pretty close to pre-war status in some places. This is more interesting to me than just keeping everything in post-apocalyptic dust.

Though I will say, while I love 1 and NV, I'm not as big a fan of 2. It's ambitious, but some of the locales felt kind of half-baked (San Francisco suffers especially in this regard), and there are way too many jokey references. Think NV had the right idea in putting most of the wacky references under the "Wild Wasteland" trait, so only players who want it have to see it.

[RaderOfTheLostArk]

Morrowind and Fallout 4.

Is that even allowed?

It's definitely an unusual opinion. But if it's what you enjoy most, it's what you enjoy most. I will say that I love (or at least enjoy) every Bethesda game I have ever played. Skyrim is what started it all for me. In TES—and by the Nine, this might come across as obnoxious like I'm tooting that I'm a "real fan", but I hope that isn't the case—I have Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, Arena, Daggerfall, Redguard, and Online under my belt (with some Battlespire and Blades thrown in). Morrowind and Skyrim are the top two for me, and which one I love most depends on the day and mood, but I love all of the games (well, I enjoy Blades, but love is a stretch). Some of the games that aren't Skyrim or Morrowind also scratch a certain itch that those two don't—for example, I think Oblivion's side quests are far more creative and memorable than Skyrim's or Morrowind's, even though they have a lot of good to great side quests too.

On the Fallout side, I've played 3, 4, New Vegas, and 1 (with some dabbling in 2). I'm not sure which one I truly favor most, but in terms of pure fun, 4 has given me the greatest amount. There are definitely some things I prefer about 3 and New Vegas, though, and the atmosphere of 1 blows all the other Fallout games out of the water.

Maybe it is just the sum of the parts of Morrowind and Fallout 4 that put them at the top for you. Or their exploration is just the most interesting to you. Maybe you played them at key moments of your life. I don't know. But they are both fantastic games and have special places in my heart, too.



@WellTemperedClavier - I want to give Fallout 2 another whirl and beat it, but I've learned a lot about it apart from what I've played and I agree that the pop culture references and silliness are way too much, even for Fallout. And I agree on Fallout 1's atmosphere. It's one of if not the best at portraying its atmosphere in any game I have ever played or seen.

[WellTemperedClavier]

Morrowind and Fallout 4.

Is that even allowed?

It's definitely an unusual opinion. But if it's what you enjoy most, it's what you enjoy most. I will say that I love (or at least enjoy) every Bethesda game I have ever played. Skyrim is what started it all for me. In TES—and by the Nine, this might come across as obnoxious like I'm tooting that I'm a "real fan", but I hope that isn't the case—I have Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, Arena, Daggerfall, Redguard, and Online under my belt (with some Battlespire and Blades thrown in). Morrowind and Skyrim are the top two for me, and which one I love most depends on the day and mood, but I love all of the games (well, I enjoy Blades, but love is a stretch). Some of the games that aren't Skyrim or Morrowind also scratch a certain itch that those two don't—for example, I think Oblivion's side quests are far more creative and memorable than Skyrim's or Morrowind's, even though they have a lot of good to great side quests too.

On the Fallout side, I've played 3, 4, New Vegas, and 1 (with some dabbling in 2). I'm not sure which one I truly favor most, but in terms of pure fun, 4 has given me the greatest amount. There are definitely some things I prefer about 3 and New Vegas, though, and the atmosphere of 1 blows all the other Fallout games out of the water.

Maybe it is just the sum of the parts of Morrowind and Fallout 4 that put them at the top for you. Or their exploration is just the most interesting to you. Maybe you played them at key moments of your life. I don't know. But they are both fantastic games and have special places in my heart, too.



@WellTemperedClavier - I want to give Fallout 2 another whirl and beat it, but I've learned a lot about it apart from what I've played and I agree that the pop culture references and silliness are way too much, even for Fallout. And I agree on Fallout 1's atmosphere. It's one of if not the best at portraying its atmosphere in any game I have ever played or seen.

Another issue with Fallout 2 is that its sheer scope becomes daunting. Don't get me wrong; it's impressive as well. But I was getting tired of the game toward the end (which isn't helped by some of the later areas feeling half-baked, as I said earlier).

One element that also bugged me is that the PC's tribal background isn't very well-realized. Hardly anyone acknowledges past a handful of NPCs. It's also odd to me that you can invest in the science skill. Yes, your tribe is descended from Vault Dwellers, but it doesn't seem like they maintained any computers or labs. So where did you learn all that? I know this is an insanely minor detail, but it is one that jumped out at me and is one of the reasons I don't consider 2 to be on the same level as 1 and NV.

But yeah, the first Fallout game was something else. My first playthrough had two experiences that'll always stick with me:

1) Rescuing Tandi from the raiders. I did this more or less on a whim, and found my skinny wimp of a character facing off against a ton of heavily armed raiders. No way I was going to shoot my way out of this one. So instead, I claimed that I represented a greater power than the raiders could imagine, and that they'd best do what I say.

This was total BS. But I had a high charisma score, so they took it hook, line, and sinker. The fact that I'd BS'ed my way to victory blew my 14-year old mind.

2) The Glow. Just surviving this felt like an accomplishment. Not to mention the psychological effect of creeping through this seemingly endless sprawl of irradiated ruins and malfunctioning machines.

It's kind of funny how much Fallout 3 changed the setting by adding the radio. Putting a feel-good nostalgic gloss on the ruins diluted the impact a bit (not that I'm entirely complaining--I genuinely love a lot of the music). It's surprising to revisit the first two games and see how scant the '50s references actually are. They're mostly window dressing in the first game, and barely present at all in the second.

In a weird way, NV does a better job of incorporating these elements. It makes some sense for the NCR to push them so heavily, since all these old cultural artifacts act as a way to establish continuity with the Old USA and justify the NCR as the rightful successor. Mr. House does the same thing in trying so hard to re-create the Vegas of his youth. Caesar does it as well, just with a different set of (far more absurd) cultural artifacts.

Of course, none of this changes the fact that the world has changed in a big way, and that there's an underlying sense of futility in trying to double down on the past. The USA of Fallout fell apart for a reason, so maybe the NCR shouldn't imitate it so studiously. The Vegas of Mr. House's youth is gone forever and any attempt he makes will just be an imitation (and honestly, I have to give the three tribes some credit: they do a damn good job of imitating it, considering their own backgrounds). And Caesar's the silliest of the bunch, since even he acknowledges his legion is kind of of a shoddy imitation (but it'll be totally different once we grab Vegas you guys!).

Incidentally, Obsidian wanted to use spiffier assets for the Strip so as to make it look more pristine. They ran out of time/resources though, so they had to use the same old rundown stuff you see elsewhere. Honestly, I think it's better this way. It puts the lie to House's claims.

You can learn from the past. You can take inspiration from it. But you can never turn back the clock. Change happens, and you have to deal.

So yeah, Obsidian was actually quite clever in how they wove the retrofuturism into the setting.