Possible Expansions, Well, one expansion in particular... Options

[Captain Hammer]

So, since this is Bethesda we're talking about, let's all talk about the number 1 expansion that you want to be included in Skyrim, based on what we know so far.

What do I want? Simple. The Ruby Throne.

I mean, seriously, the way the game is currently presented, the final big-bad will involve some manner of sealing away Alduin (Akatosh/Auri-Eil, based on your pantheon of choice) and saving the world. So, why not build on that, by, say, using your newfound status as Dragonborn God-Binder to do something productive.

Example of Productive Endeavor: Kick-start the Fourth Empire of the Dragonborn. Alessia did it. Reman I Cyrodiil did it. Tiber Septim, the Divine Talos, did it. Why in Oblivion's Infinite Chaos should the next Dragonborn not have a shot at becoming Emperor (or Empress)?

I know, I know, there's a large degree of difficulty in trying to figure out how an Elf would become the ruler of the very human-centric Tamriellic Empire. One Dark Elf Empress was difficult enough, even though she did get the job on account of her husband and minor son. Let's not get into the problems that most of the human races would have with an Argonian or Khajiit as Emperor/Empress. I'm sure there's a way to get around this. Even if it does require adopting an appropriate heir from a human household and/or being adopted into that household, giving other members the claim on the Ruby Throne.

According to the lore, periods of severe civil war always come at the end of an Interregnum. And it is always the forging and renewal of the Tamrielic Empire that ends such strife. Historically, when an individual controlled all of Skyrim, it was either as a supporter and ally of the Cyrodiilic rulers (the line of Ysgramoor in the High Kingship of Skyrim allying with Alessia and the First Empire), or that person was Emperor (both Reman I and Tiber Septim unified Skyrim behind them before they could conquer the rest of Tamriel).

And besides, if you can whistle up a dragon with a careful shout, who could stand against an army with that in its arsenal. It worked great against the Redguard Crowns at Stros M'Kai, and that was some of Tiber's most difficult opposition.

[Destri Melarg]

Interesting idea. The only real sticking point that I can see is exactly what you alluded to. How would subsequent games define your character’s role as ruler of the Empire? I suppose they could approach it in the same way that they approach any mention of the Nerevarine in Oblivion. You would be simply known as the Emperor, or the Dovahkiin Emperor. Of course that doesn’t hold a lot of water for those of us who enjoy playing female characters. There would also be the fudging of the inevitable biographies that would surface in subsequent games relating to your character and the, well, unconventional way that you attained the throne.

If the reins of power are what you wish, then why leave the borders of Skyrim to attain it? I would like to see your character, as Dovahkiin, act as one of the major players in bringing the nine holds of Skyrim under one rule by convening a Kingsmoot. It would mark the first time that such an act had been taken since the Battle of Glenumbria Moors way back in the First Era. As Dovahkiin I would presume that you will have at least a nodding acquaintance with all the rulers involved. I think that any attempt to have your character installed as the new king of Skyrim suffers from the same problem that plagues any attempt to seize the Ruby Throne. Perhaps more so in this case because we know that the humans that populate Cyrodiil will at least tolerate a Dunmer Empress. We can’t say that for certain of the Nords that inhabitant Skyrim.

Perhaps your character could explore the golden halls of Sovngarde in an expansion which asks you to save heaven itself from some evil influence. Or you could mount a voyage to Atmora that somewhat mirrors the voyage taken by the Nerevarine to Akavir. Perhaps you could be recruited to lead an invasion force to finally retake Morrowind. This could lead to yet another cataclysmic explosion of Red Mountain, one that you could witness.

[mALX]

I know, I know, there's a large degree of difficulty in trying to figure out how an Elf would become the ruler of the very human-centric Tamriellic Empire.

Can anyone say Barenziah?

[SubRosa]

The trouble with an expansion like that is that it would presumably require Bethesda to create a map of Cyrodiil, if not of all Tamriel. If we look historically, most of Beth's expansions only added new areas of a quarter or so the size of the original game world, if they even added anything at all.

I could certainly see an exploration of Atmora being doable, assuming that they do not try to reproduce the entire continent, but rather only a small piece of it. Destri's suggestion of the PC being a unifying force in politics would be easily implemented, much as KOTN was for Oblivion. Or just as Morrowind had an expansion taking place outside of Dark Elf territory, they might do the same and take us to meet the Witchmen of the Western Reach.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Mar 28 2011, 11:44 PM

[Captain Hammer]

Can anyone say Barenziah?

Barenziah is actually an example of why it doesn't work. She was Queen of Morrowind till the Imperial Simulacrum, and only became Queen of Wayrest as Queen Consort, i.e, Queen by marriage to the King Eadwyre, and not in her own right. And the subsequent expulsion of Barenziah and Helseth by Elysana was facilitated by the animosity of Wayrest's populace towards what they viewed as "Dunmeri foreigners."

Katariah was only able to be Empress on account of extreme political skill, a marriage to a mad Emperor (Pelagius), and the fact that she managed to conceive his son and thus ruled as Regent for the Emperor for both her husband and her son was a major part of her ability to rule. Still, as a Dark Elf, she had run-ins with the Elder Council, and the Imperial nobility distrusted her.

@ Destri:
The Kingsmoot is an interesting idea. The lore doesn't specify whether Skyrim was fully unified under a single king after the end of the Reman Dynasty (though Reman I had clearly found a fractured province that he successfully unified) and whether Talos had to subdue any rebels following his victory at Sancre Tor. Given the lore and in-game books, it appears that the use of Thu'um in battle was enough that the majority of the Nords went over to his banner, though what happened and what appeared to happen are obviously different things (witness: the betrayal of the secret entrance to the citadel of Sancre Tor).

However, Talos clearly had a strong backing in Skyrim, that whether he felt the need to proclaim himself High King of Skyrim separately from Emperor may have been a matter of semantics and politics, and not necessarily a required step in his military plans. But why leave the borders of Skyrim for the reins of power?

Like I said, the Ruby Throne.

I. Want. It.

It's more than just getting recognized as most powerful figure in Skyrim. It's getting recognized as rightful Emperor and sovereign overlord over all of Tamriel. I don't want the Nine Holds to recognize me as king, and leave it there. I want a bloody continent and every citizen therein to be ready to acknowledge me as Emperor. The last Dragonborn to use Thu'um managed to forge an empire. He had a dragon in his army for a while, and later became a god. I'm busy stopping another god from consuming the world, I too get to use a dragon as an ally, and I get to use Thu'um. Why shouldn't I get a chance to become the Mother-Fu*&ing Emperor of Tamriel as well?

This post has been edited by Captain Hammer: Mar 28 2011, 11:02 PM

[Destri Melarg]

Like I said, the Ruby Throne.

I. Want. It.

I want a bloody continent and every citizen therein to be ready to acknowledge me as Emperor. . .
Why shouldn't I get a chance to become the Mother-Fu*&ing Emperor of Tamriel as well?

Spoken like a would-be-conqueror! I can understand your reasoning behind wanting the Ruby Throne, but what you are proposing is not an expansion to Skyrim. A campaign of that importance (not to mention scale) could not be handled with anything short of an entire new game!

It would not be as simple as taking your dragon and your army of ‘volunteers’ down to White Gold Tower and plopping down on the chair. You would have to recreate Tiber Septim’s (and presumably Reman I’s) efforts at subjugating the rest of the Empire. That means campaigns in High Rock and Hammerfell, a siege of Orsinium, a massive naval battle that prefaces your effort to retake the Sumerset Isles, and wars in Valenwood, Elsweyr, and Black Marsh (not to mention Morrowind). . . all with one measly dragon! Though Nafaalilargus was instrumental in subjugating the tiny island of Stros M’Kai, Tiber Septim still needed Numidium to achieve victory in the Sumerset Isles and, presumably, the other provinces. Where’s your Numidium? After what happened to Zurin Arctus I doubt very seriously that you could rustle up someone else stupid enough to give him/herself up for your cause.

Even if you leave those tasks until you can consolidate power in Cyrodiil you are still left with a task that might be impossible to accomplish. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that Skingrad, Chorrol, Anvil, and the rebuilt Kvatch are all willing to bend the knee (fat chance). We are still talking about laying siege to Leyawiin (which after 200 years has probably been reclaimed by Black Marsh), Bravil (which is probably a province of Elsweyr), Bruma (which owes fealty to Skyrim), and maybe Cheydinhal (depending on how much of Morrowind remains). Accomplishing this with an army of volunteers and one dragon that you can’t afford to feed seems like a daunting task to say the least, and not one that could be accomplished within the confines of an ‘expansion’!

Now, if we're talking about Elder Scrolls VI: Conquest then I'm all for it!

[SubRosa]

Now, if we're talking about Elder Scrolls VI: Conquest then I'm all for it!

Tamriel: Total War! If I was still modding Rome: Total War, I might be tempted to do it!

[Captain Hammer]

You're right, this might need to be a new game. Emphasis on might. I'm reserving judgement until I see Skyrim in action.

Still, let us not confuse Nafaalilargus with the dragon you get in TES V: Skyrim. The first was an actual beast, one that could be, as was, killed. Once gone, it wasn't coming back.

In the new game, and based on developer comments, we're talking about the Jills, basically divine spirits that are servants of Alduin, and after you kill one of their number, you learn his True Name, meaning you get to use Thu'um to summon that one to do battle for you. Which means yes, you have one dragon. But you continue to have one dragon.

It could play along like this:

Soldier for the Dovahkiin: "Sire, the dragon is down. It took over 100 battlemages, but they brought it down."
Dovahkiin (Me!): "Eh? Oh, yeah, figured that might happen occasionally. Surprised it took this long, really."
Soldier: "Sire, we've lost our dragon. And now their battlemages are turning fire at our army."
Dovahkiin (Me!): "Easy. They may have underestimated my Power. Check this out."
(Breathes in real deep. Then shouts, in Dragon Tongue): "OY! (Insert Name of Dragon Here)! BACK TO WORK! KILL THOSE BATTLEMAGES! AND THEN TAKE OUT THEIR TOP COMMAND!"
(Said dragon reappears, sort of like recasting a summon spell after ally was destroyed, except it's a giant fire-breathing flyer. It lays into the unsuspecting battlemage corps and turns the tide of battle.)
Dovahkiin (Me!): "There, that should about do it for today. Which province are we 'Re-integrating into the Empire' next week?"

And that's on the low end. If you're gonna be fighting, and stopping, Alduin, I could imagine it going some more like this:

Soldier for the Dovahkiin: "Sire, the dragon is down. It took over 100 battlemages, but they brought it down."
Dovahkiin (Me!): "Eh? Oh, yeah, figured that might happen occasionally. Surprised it took this long, really."
Soldier: "Sire, we've lost our dragon. And now their battlemages are turning fire at our army."
Dovahkiin (Me!): "You're right. They may have underestimated my Power. Time to up the Ante. Check this out!"
(Breathes in real deep. Then shouts, in Dragon Tongue): "OY! ALDUIN! I'LL LET YOU OUT FOR HALF AN HOUR! TAKE OUT THEIR TOP COMMAND! BUT LEAVE THE REST! A GOOD ARMY IS A NICE THING TO TAKE AS PLUNDER!"
(Alduin appears. That's right, a frakkin GOD appears to do battle! A giant, fire-breathing, really hungry god.)
Dovahkiin (Me!): "That should teach them not to F@ck with a Dragonborn. We're so bada$$, we bring gods to a mortal fight. You alright, son?"
Soldier: "I may need a drink, Sire."
Dovahkiin (Me!): Well, we are now a week away before our next 'Re-Integration into the Empire.' Who is next, by the way? Anyways, I believe I could now spare the men a night of drinking and whoring. Have fun. Though, send any of the really good-looking red-headed wenches my way. Service to the Emperor is well rewarded."

Just saying that the bloody Dragonborn deserves a bloody empire. And besides, given the whole Dragon-motif of the Cyrodiils, and the fact that the Dovahkiin bloody well saved Skyrim, getting large-scale support shouldn't be too difficult from those two provinces. And it becomes less of my "group of volunteers" and more like "The Legions of the Dragon!" One indicates possibly a few thousand troops. The other indicates several hundred thousand soldiers, well organized, equipped, and trained for campaigns of reconquest.

I agree that it's one thing to rule Skyrim, and quite another to rule Tamriel. But you build on your success. The Blades in Skyrim under Esbern (or appropriate sucessor if the old mentor dies) form your newly reformed Imperial Order of the Blades. You make the expansion more about diplomacy and tact, strategic engagements and a gathering of support like the Hortator quest in Morrowind, but with the effect of building a Legion like the Allies for Bruma ques in Oblivion. You meet with various nobles, kings, guild leaders, etc., and get their support for your cause. You already have all of Skyrim behind you. Take Cyrodiil next. Use the troops to create a professional, prepared army, defeating political opposition at the head and using the body of support as your own. Build a reverse Hydra, if you will, by eliminating the leadership of your rivals and adding their strength to yours.

When you must engage in combat, engage with a strategy that serves your overall goals. Offer terms to those that submit, quarter to troops that defect, position to those that come ready and willing to adopt your banner. Exterminate those leaders you must, bring down the heads of any organized enemy, scatter to the winds any force of fanatics that oppose you. And when the day ends, know that those you gaze upon today will support you, so that the enemy you face tomorrow has already lost his crown.

[ureniashtram]

That expansion has a magnitude that even Bethesda would've trouble making. While the Ruby Crown does interest me.. CONQUEST and Invasion? That's more like a strategy game, a genre that Elder Scrolls isn't fitted with.

If we're talking about taking the Ruby Crown, I'd say that we should be more ... cunning about it. Letters of blackmail, threats of war, extortion.. Politics, man. Politics. Fullscale war just isn't for the E.S.

If they made an expansion about taking the Sundered Seat, I envision it a bit more like this...

After hearing of your origins as a Dragonborn, the Imperial COunts and other politicians from around the world ACTUALLY goes into Skyrim, seeing for themselves if the ancient line of Dragonborns survived the Earlier Crisis.

You could visit them, show your powers as a Dragonborn... Y'know. If they'rnt persuaded, you could just challenge them to duel. If that doesn(t work and their relatives share the same point of view, send an assasin(or yourself, depending on your class) and kill them all. Their orphaned children should be brainwashed to your cause, Har Har Har!

And they all stand in awe after bearing witness to your ... persuading powers and swears fealty to the new Emperor.

After that, you briefly travel to the Whitegold Spire, elect a new Elder Council if you wish and seat on the Sundered Seat like a Bawss, ordering royal wenches to be sent to you all the while.

The End!
--

.. Trying to say is, war and invasion gameplay isn't just for the ES. Roleplaying is what they're about(even though they're going slightly mainstream) and even if Beth did that kind of expansion(war! hahaah!), I foresee that many loyalists and purists fans would be disgruntled. And you don't want me to explain the ramifications of disgruntled fans(which are paying customers), do you?

That said, anybody up for a session in Battle Realms? Playing against the A.I has been PRETTY lonely. (sadface!)

[mALX]

That said, anybody up for a session in Battle Realms? Playing against the A.I has been PRETTY lonely. (sadface!)

Lol, I'll see your sad face and raise you one:


Actually, I never heard of Battle Realms.

[Lady Syl]

(Obviously) the Shivering Isles was my favorite expansion for Oblivion, so I would love to see them give us another Daedric Realm to explore with Skyrim. I never played either of Morrowind's expansion packs, but I know they already did Hircine's realm. Not sure which realm I would want to see most--just as long as it's not Mehrunes Dagon's bloody realm again, I think I'd any one of them.

[mALX]

(Obviously) the Shivering Isles was my favorite expansion for Oblivion, so I would love to see them give us another Daedric Realm to explore with Skyrim. I never played either of Morrowind's expansion packs, but I know they already did Hircine's realm. Not sure which realm I would want to see most--just as long as it's not Mehrunes Dagon's bloody realm again, I think I'd any one of them.

Great idea !! I know they've already done Clavicus Vile's realm too, but I'd love to see it. I kind of like the deadlands of Mehrunes realm, but I doubt we'll see them in the next of the series - I agree with you there.

[ureniashtram]

Jyggalag's realm. Seriously. I'm curious to what the Dio of Order's realm looks like. Crystalline, I suspect.

On a side note, I hope the Knights of the Gud-dam Nine make a reappearance. Combine the Armor of the Crusader and the Dragon powers and what do you get?

Dragonknight of the Nine! Hell yeah!

On a side-side note, Battle Realms is one hell of an strategic game. If it got more publicity, it would've stumped WoW down a peg.

[Captain Hammer]

Hircine's realm might be interesting. Probably not, though. It'd just be a lot of running away from enemies more powerful than you, and running after quarry less powerful than you. We got enough of that with Bloodmoon, and that was only on Solstheim.

Coldharbor might be an interesting choice.

But I don't think that Bethesda is going to give us another Daedric Realm again. It'll be something new. Possibly Atmora, or some of the islands to the north.

[Destri Melarg]

I’ve had a thought for a possible expansion.

As Dovahkiin you are called upon to mount an expedition to Atmora. Atmora means ‘Elder Wood’, and somewhere buried under thousands of years of the ice which has claimed it is a totem of some sort that is vital to the survival of Skyrim. Your first task is to secure a ship. Due to the importance of this voyage, several are offered to you from the various cities and towns of Skyrim. But be careful, choosing one ship runs the risk of alienating the powers that be in a rival city. You must recruit a crew from amongst the rough sailors that crowd the coastal cities of Solitude, Dawnstar, and Winter Hold. Be mindful with your choices, the sailors have loyalties, rivalries, agendas, and prejudices that could endanger the voyage.

Now you must sail through the Sea of Ghosts, which did not get its name because someone long ago thought it sounded cool. Imagine shipboard combat against the undead. Imagine massive sea creatures and combat where you must rely upon the loyalty that you have built with your crew, and your own skill with a harpoon. Imagine an uncharted island with a crystal lagoon and sirens (male and female) looking to lure you and your crew to an early grave. Above everything else, imagine the icy tendrils of a cold that causes you to lose health with each passing moment not spent near a fire . . . and there is nothing more dangerous aboard a ship than a fire! The closer you get to Atmora, the colder it gets. Even Nords are not immune. One by one your crew begins to succumb. The ocean begins to freeze, making passage virtually impossible. You set out on foot, walking over the ice. The crew begins to show signs of restlessness. How well did you choose them? Too late you realize that the whole voyage is just a ruse to get you (and your political weight) out of Skyrim. Several members of your crew are under orders to kill you and bury your body at sea. Behind you several men unsheathe their weapons . . .

[mALX]

I’ve had a thought for a possible expansion.

As Dovahkiin you are called upon to mount an expedition to Atmora. Atmora means ‘Elder Wood’, and somewhere buried under thousands of years of the ice which has claimed it is a totem of some sort that is vital to the survival of Skyrim. Your first task is to secure a ship. Due to the importance of this voyage, several are offered to you from the various cities and towns of Skyrim. But be careful, choosing one ship runs the risk of alienating the powers that be in a rival city. You must recruit a crew from amongst the rough sailors that crowd the coastal cities of Solitude, Dawnstar, and Winter Hold. Be mindful with your choices, the sailors have loyalties, rivalries, agendas, and prejudices that could endanger the voyage.

Now you must sail through the Sea of Ghosts, which did not get its name because someone long ago thought it sounded cool. Imagine shipboard combat against the undead. Imagine massive sea creatures and combat where you must rely upon the loyalty that you have built with your crew, and your own skill with a harpoon. Imagine an uncharted island with a crystal lagoon and sirens (male and female) looking to lure you and your crew to an early grave. Above everything else, imagine the icy tendrils of a cold that causes you to lose health with each passing moment not spent near a fire . . . and there is nothing more dangerous aboard a ship than a fire! The closer you get to Atmora, the colder it gets. Even Nords are not immune. One by one your crew begins to succumb. The ocean begins to freeze, making passage virtually impossible. You set out on foot, walking over the ice. The crew begins to show signs of restlessness. How well did you choose them? Too late you realize that the whole voyage is just a ruse to get you (and your political weight) out of Skyrim. Several members of your crew are under orders to kill you and bury your body at sea. Behind you several men unsheathe their weapons . . .

Hey wait, I've got this in a mod already if you drop the part about Skyrim and the frozen totem. It is a pirate mod, but the same thing happens ... quite fun, by the way !!!