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Posted by: stargate525 Jun 1 2005, 10:47 PM

Ok, new thread here.

CONFIRMED ROOMS;

Different rooms for each 'category' of books

'Front' office

Offices for most people in this

A central staicase


POSSIBLE ROOMS;

A Atrium/greenhouse thing

Private reading rooms for skillbooks

Living quarters, dining halls, and other misc. living areas.

LOCATION

To yet be determined, although its getting pretty polarized for either lost in the forests, or in the middle of the city.

OTHER INFO ABOUT THE LIBRARY

We will be adding at least one secret area, although it's location and nature might only be privvy to a few.

Might have more areas than that.

Anything I missed, just post.



Do not make another thread about anything that would be put in the library. If you have an idea please post it in here.

Thanks
-Jona

Posted by: vaanic~one Jun 2 2005, 06:04 PM

I am definitely all for a "hidden in middle of city" approach. the whole "in the forest" doesnt seem as magical or....special, There are already plenty of things lost in the forest, it seems less unique to put it there. I doubt there wil be many other hidden establishments in cities, so this adds to the unique-ness of putting it there.

Posted by: Khaan Jun 2 2005, 06:06 PM

It could be on the moon, and you could use a dwemmer rocket to get to it.

Posted by: Hukai The Wandering Jun 2 2005, 07:48 PM

umm....no, although that would be immensly cool, awsome, and otherwise da bomb... ...no, i dont think so how about having it's sercet entracne inside or under a guards tower or fort. but i guess with npcs walking through doors you would need a way of keeping them out of the way huh? mabye you could do what Khann sugested but put a smaller moon closer the the city and not in outer space...

Posted by: Channler Jun 2 2005, 08:37 PM

..lol.. I just thought about something, this is a illegal library right? Why not put it under the imperial palace? Talk about a slap in the face

Or hey, have it in the imperial palace

Posted by: Hukai The Wandering Jun 2 2005, 08:40 PM

OOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes yes yes yes ye s=ye sy ey sye ys sye ey ye!


put it IIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN the imperial palace! thaqt way be ssso cooooolllllllllllllllll1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...

Be hard to get in and happy fun time!

put it hidden door in the emporer BATHROOM! :rofl:

Sinder Velvin's Note: Oi! Too many emoticons, pal.

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 2 2005, 09:06 PM

Whoa.... We already have in the Imperial Palace: The Imperial Chambers, secret passageways, dungeons, an ancient Elven city... do you seriously think we can cram any more secret stuff into it? :shocked:

Mm.... how about a pocket dimension? Accessible through a book, perhaps? (A bit banal, I know).

Posted by: Channler Jun 2 2005, 10:52 PM

[quote=9of9]Whoa.... We already have in the Imperial Palace: The Imperial Chambers, secret passageways, dungeons, and ancient Elven city... do you seriously think we can cram any more secret stuff into it? :shocked:
[/quote]

Of course, but it only adds to the irony

Posted by: Stargazey Jun 3 2005, 02:38 AM

Could we have a room just for the Hitchhiker's Guide to Nirn? It's going to be BIG. Quite big. Could my office double as the portal to Oblivion?

Posted by: Channler Jun 3 2005, 03:53 AM

Or maybe the place is in a alternate demension (outside the map) that is made to look like it is a sphere with grass all over it, that would be awsome

Posted by: jonajosa Jun 3 2005, 06:53 AM

My vote goes for the library being outside.

Please post no more "I think it should be here and this is why" unless you just say in one sentence, "I think it should be here." No more than that. We don't need any fight over where it should go.

Since we have narrowed the question of where the library should be we need to start thinking about how the library should look in those two places. We have practicly drained the life out of all the possiblitys that the library can be if it were cramped in the city. We need to talk about ow the library should look if it were outside in a forest.

Should there be more than one building?

Should there be any parks or rest area that are a fair distance away from the library?

Should there be any paths that wind throught the woods just for people to walk on and enjoy the scenery?

Since the library would be outside we would have more room right? So could rooms in the library be bigger? We could have larger rooms for Guide to Nirn, the reading area, the records and editor rooms.

Get the idea?

Posted by: Konradude Jun 3 2005, 09:46 AM

Uh, maybe have a door in a really large tree?

Posted by: Chumbaniya Jun 3 2005, 12:09 PM

[quote=vaanic~one]I am definitely all for a "hidden in middle of city" approach. the whole "in the forest" doesnt seem as magical or....special, There are already plenty of things lost in the forest, it seems less unique to put it there. I doubt there wil be many other hidden establishments in cities, so this adds to the unique-ness of putting it there.[/quote]

I agree with you on that one. An ancient secret library doesn't make much sense in the middle of the wilderness. Having it hidden away in a city is much better, maybe if there was something similar to the Vivec canals it could go there.

Posted by: jonajosa Jun 3 2005, 03:36 PM

[quote=Konradude]Uh, maybe have a door in a really large tree?[/quote]

No. Sorta like walking along a path and seeing a building in a small clearing surrounded by woods.

Posted by: KhabaLox Jun 3 2005, 06:40 PM

The library is supposed to be secret, right? If it is located in the forest/rural area, I would think it would have to be disguised. Even in a very remote area, a large building would be noticed eventually, and the Empire's representatives would come check it out. It could either be underground or magically warded so as to be invisible or resemble something else (cottage, etc.). It could resemble a small building, and yet still be large inside, correct (I've never actually created a mod, so I don't know all the restrictions).

If it is located in a city, then it would be much easier to hide a large building. It could be in the basement/catacombs of another building, or could be it's own building with some sort of front (like a Shriner's club, or the Tamriel equivalent). Only those who know the secret handshake would be allowed in, or maybe there is a public area, but you have to be a member to get into the actual library rooms. (Not sure how/if this is possible to implement).

My apologies if these are old ideas already discussed.

Posted by: stargate525 Jun 3 2005, 09:15 PM

executive decision on the part of the big boss guy (me )

It'll be in the city, as I don't think it'll be as difficult to occupy one of the alleyways there are sure to be.

The office that acts as our front (cover) and our personal offices will be known as, *irony alert*, 'The Front Office' a small printing/bookbinding shop. Two story, so no worries as to it 'looking' too big.

here are MW CS shots of The Front Office.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/stargate525/Offices.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/stargate525/FrontOffice.jpg[/img]

Unless someone has a very convincing and overwhelmingly relevant argument against this (as in a benevolent Dictator's Veto), I think we will go with this.

Posted by: Stargazey Jun 3 2005, 09:26 PM

Yay ^_^ Stargate!!


Now go post this in the Tes F'Ruum thread. Away with ye!

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 3 2005, 09:59 PM

Doesn't look bad for a rough plan, although the only thing that strikes me immediately is that Troika's scretary won't be able to get out from behind that desk (and hence starve).

Posted by: Stargazey Jun 3 2005, 10:08 PM

[quote=9of9]Doesn't look bad for a rough plan, although the only thing that strikes me immediately is that Troika's scretary won't be able to get out from behind that desk (and hence starve).[/quote]


Don't be silly, Troika's secretary is an acrobatic monkey, known as Paul.

Posted by: Wolfie Jun 3 2005, 10:09 PM

[quote=Stargazey][quote=9of9]Doesn't look bad for a rough plan, although the only thing that strikes me immediately is that Troika's scretary won't be able to get out from behind that desk (and hence starve).[/quote]


Don't be silly, Troika's secretary is an acrobatic monkey, known as Paul.[/quote]
Hey i'm not a monkey, and i ain't no secretary either

Posted by: Chumbaniya Jun 3 2005, 10:43 PM

The design looks good to me. I realy should actually write something for the library soon. After the exams end, and I blitz my undead mage on WoW to level 60, I promise I will write something for the library.

Posted by: Channler Jun 4 2005, 12:45 AM

Well if you need a few hired hands or something don't be afraid to call... GHOST BUSTERS!!! *Starts ghost busters music*

Errr.. I mean me

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 4 2005, 12:51 AM

Actually - a thought just came to me. Because we have fully-fledged Rad AI in the game, that means we can schedule the NPCs to have proper lives (unlike their real-life counterparts, ironically) which means they would need somewhere to eat and sleep, in the Imperial City. Well, not need (as far as I know all the Rad AI scheduling is purely optional) but it would be nice to see all the employees going off home as the Library closes for the night. But the question is - where would everyone live?

Posted by: jonajosa Jun 4 2005, 02:19 AM

Very nice. But i alwasy imagined the library to be a very large building with lots of space. Space as in ground level space. No need to hide it underground.

[quote=Stargate525] executive decision on the part of the big boss guy

It'll be in the city[/quote] Thats it then. No more disscussion on where it should be.

Posted by: stargate525 Jun 4 2005, 03:35 AM

The 'secretary' is hardly ever at her desk, but spend a large amount of time in Troika's office.

I can easily put in apartments for us in a lower level.

Posted by: Chumbaniya Jun 4 2005, 01:06 PM

[quote=9of9]Actually - a thought just came to me. Because we have fully-fledged Rad AI in the game, that means we can schedule the NPCs to have proper lives (unlike their real-life counterparts, ironically) which means they would need somewhere to eat and sleep, in the Imperial City. Well, not need (as far as I know all the Rad AI scheduling is purely optional) but it would be nice to see all the employees going off home as the Library closes for the night. But the question is - where would everyone live?[/quote]

That's a great idea! Maybe there could be other non library-employed NPCs that wander into the front office, and the library staff in the front office could be programmed only to go into the main library part when no other NPCs are there. Maybe a little complex to mod in easily, but I'm just throwing around ideas here.

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 4 2005, 02:03 PM

Well, you could always come down to having two versions of the mod - one in the city, one in the forest if its that big of a schizm Then those who like it being in the city can mod it in the city, those for the forest can do it for the forest. In the end, its the content (and hundreds of books for us to clutter our shelves with, at last) that really matters.

Posted by: vaanic~one Jun 4 2005, 02:42 PM

I do like that idea that you have there about the layout of Tes'fruum. Though I do hope that that the architecture is lighter in colour in the real thing.

Posted by: Konradude Jun 4 2005, 03:32 PM

remember thats just morrowind cs

Posted by: stargate525 Jun 4 2005, 03:39 PM

[quote=Konradude]remember thats just morrowind cs[/quote]
and I left the 'lights on'


JJ, I can still put it in the forest, although that makes many of our ideas moot. For example, the office front wouldn't be needed, and then how is Troika supposed to explain having a secretary? ^_^

And it increases the dificulty in hiding it, since it would have a tendancy to sprawl out a bit.

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 4 2005, 06:22 PM

Maybe have it on a small island in the middle of Tobal Bay?

Posted by: jonajosa Jun 4 2005, 07:25 PM

No its going in a city.

Posted by: Hukai The Wandering Jun 5 2005, 02:40 AM

One quick thing before i go...
[quote=stargate525]The 'secretary' is hardly ever at her desk, but spend a large amount of time in Troika's office.[/quote]

*wolf whistle* Good goin' Troika!

:paperbag2:


how about adding in a small eating area or mabye a small kicthen. it would be hidden of course (why would an inconspicous library need a kitchen?) but that way the npcs could be happy fun time..

Posted by: jonajosa Jun 5 2005, 02:48 AM

I think there should be some sort of eating area. It doesn't have to be big just enought to fit all the NCP workers in the library. I think the radiant AI make the game NCPs eat... so if we made NCPs with our names in the game we would have to have a place for them to eat in the library.

Posted by: minque Jun 6 2005, 04:40 PM

A very nice idea....I like it very much....and maybe a kitchen as well, I´d love to cook for you all......

Posted by: Troika Jun 6 2005, 10:14 PM

[quote=Hukai The Wandering]One quick thing before i go...
[quote=stargate525]The 'secretary' is hardly ever at her desk, but spend a large amount of time in Troika's office.[/quote]

*wolf whistle* Good goin' Troika!

:paperbag2: [/quote]

HER?!?!?!?!?! Do ANY of you know me?

Anyway, before you all start getting too out of control with all this 'how many NPCs can we fit in a library' thing, just remember... aren't all of you guys meant to either be dead or flung to the far corners of Tamriel? We've written a bunch of Founders' Fates telling how the staff count of the Library was reduced to one...

Where did all these new people come from. Convince me, and you all get free bed and board at the library...

Posted by: jonajosa Jun 6 2005, 10:23 PM

[quote=Troika]

You all get free bed and board at the library...[/quote]

Thanks goodness!

Posted by: stargate525 Jun 6 2005, 10:45 PM

[quote=Troika][quote=Hukai The Wandering]One quick thing before i go...
[quote=stargate525]The 'secretary' is hardly ever at her desk, but spend a large amount of time in Troika's office.[/quote]

*wolf whistle* Good goin' Troika!

:paperbag2: [/quote]

HER?!?!?!?!?! Do ANY of you know me?

Anyway, before you all start getting too out of control with all this 'how many NPCs can we fit in a library' thing, just remember... aren't all of you guys meant to either be dead or flung to the far corners of Tamriel? We've written a bunch of Founders' Fates telling how the staff count of the Library was reduced to one...

Where did all these new people come from. Convince me, and you all get free bed and board at the library...[/quote]
silly me, making assumptions again. are you a girl/homosexual? If you are, we can certainly have a male secretary.

And SOMEONE needs to run the office front, dont they? someone has to dust off the books, someone has to recopy them when they get damaged, dont they?

Posted by: jonajosa Jun 6 2005, 10:46 PM

As he said before... There is only one person running the library.

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 6 2005, 10:55 PM

What happens if a freak NPC happens to kill him by accident? We need backup staff!

Posted by: jonajosa Jun 6 2005, 11:04 PM

Thats when Stargate makes an NCP of me and i take over.

Posted by: minque Jun 6 2005, 11:14 PM

Maybe Stargate should make an NPC of me......then we´ll have some real action

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 6 2005, 11:16 PM

That would be eerie... what would you do when your character meets herself in the game?

Posted by: minque Jun 6 2005, 11:17 PM

No problems...it´s been done already..I have the mod "Hawthorn Hall" installed and my char is an NPC there so she´s met herself and killed heself as well.....(didn´t save though)

Posted by: vaanic~one Jun 7 2005, 04:42 PM

If there is only one NPC, it would be best if they were some old man or something like that, no other type of person really fits in as running a library.

Posted by: stargate525 Jun 7 2005, 09:05 PM

[quote=jonajosa]As he said before... There is only one person running the library.[/quote]
but the people who work at the office cover-up would have to know wouldn't they?

Posted by: Slith Jun 7 2005, 11:15 PM

I had a wonderful idea. What if we made the library both in a city, and in the wilderness. Let me explain.

The library has an entrance in the city, perhaps hidden in a house, or down an alley, or not hidden at all - whatever works. This entrance could allow you to reach the library fairly quickly, without going into the woods.

However, once you're in the library you'll find every other entrance leads out into the wilderness, save the one you just came from (from the city). Maybe it should even be made unclear whether the library truly is located in the city or out in the wilds.

What I'm suggesting essentially, is the city entrance gates you over to the actual library. (Though don't make this clear. We don't want the players to know for sure where the library is located.) And then all the other doors leading out of the library will go to the wilderness.


Well, that's my idea for it anyway.


{Edit} Bah. Reading further on in the thread it appears the location has been decided already. So much for my grande idea.

By the way Stargate, I truly mean no offense, but I really dislike your design for the front office and I hope the rest of the library doesn't look like that. It's too bland and cramped. There's no feeling of wonder at the design, and it reminds me of those alphabet blocks I used to play with as a child. Except less colorful.

I don't want to sit back and say it's good just because you took some time out to work on it. I'd rather say "Wow, that looks impressive." because it truly does.

I just ask that you use some of the impressive imagination I'm sure you've got, to improve your rough draft, and turn it into something spectacular.

My personal tastes would suggest a central, circular atrium, two floors, and other wings of the library branching off from the centre. If you want to get fancy, maybe add some water, {a waterfall?} or even sculptures and such. But your the designer, so it's all up to you.

[P.S. Please don't take my criticism the wrong way.]

Posted by: jonajosa Jun 8 2005, 12:50 AM

A very nice design Slith. I would vote for it. But remember that that design was made using the morrowind CS and as we both know( at least i do) that the morrowind Cs doesn't reall have much to offer when it comes to making anything look very... nice. Its all bland so far.

Posted by: stargate525 Jun 8 2005, 04:35 AM

[quote=Slith]I had a wonderful idea. What if we made the library both in a city, and in the wilderness. Let me explain.

The library has an entrance in the city, perhaps hidden in a house, or down an alley, or not hidden at all - whatever works. This entrance could allow you to reach the library fairly quickly, without going into the woods.

However, once you're in the library you'll find every other entrance leads out into the wilderness, save the one you just came from (from the city). Maybe it should even be made unclear whether the library truly is located in the city or out in the wilds.

What I'm suggesting essentially, is the city entrance gates you over to the actual library. (Though don't make this clear. We don't want the players to know for sure where the library is located.) And then all the other doors leading out of the library will go to the wilderness.


Well, that's my idea for it anyway.


{Edit} Bah. Reading further on in the thread it appears the location has been decided already. So much for my grande idea.

By the way Stargate, I truly mean no offense, but I really dislike your design for the front office and I hope the rest of the library doesn't look like that. It's too bland and cramped. There's no feeling of wonder at the design, and it reminds me of those alphabet blocks I used to play with as a child. Except less colorful.

I don't want to sit back and say it's good just because you took some time out to work on it. I'd rather say "Wow, that looks impressive." because it truly does.

I just ask that you use some of the impressive imagination I'm sure you've got, to improve your rough draft, and turn it into something spectacular.

My personal tastes would suggest a central, circular atrium, two floors, and other wings of the library branching off from the centre. If you want to get fancy, maybe add some water, {a waterfall?} or even sculptures and such. But your the designer, so it's all up to you.

[P.S. Please don't take my criticism the wrong way.][/quote][quote]A very nice design Slith. I would vote for it. But remember that that design was made using the morrowind CS and as we both know( at least i do) that the morrowind Cs doesn't reall have much to offer when it comes to making anything look very... nice. Its all bland so far.[/quote]

hmm. I really like that Idea, maybe make the library underground, then have a few auxillary entrances.... maybe.


ALso, about that design, it isn't the library, it's the office coverup, just supposed to be a generic print shop. I didn't bother to add anything since we wont be using it. Also, the blander the coverup area is, I am thinking that the Library will look even more impressive once you get into it. We were talking about gardens and balconys and all sorts of fun stuff. Eventually I think we may have to get some custom art in for it, but thats a bit too far down the road for right now.

Posted by: vaanic~one Jun 8 2005, 03:13 PM

I was going to suggest using Pandemonial Architecture, but hey, It probably will NOT be in the game. SO there is no point in suggesting it..

Posted by: Adanorcil Jun 8 2005, 08:42 PM

I was wondering, is there a consensus already on where the library will be placed? (In the wilderness or in a city?) If I may vent my opinion here, I'm for the wilderness idea. I think it makes a lot more sense; because:

- It seems a bit dangerous to hide what could be the largest group of outlawed literature in the Empire right underneath a heavily guarded city.

- The chances of being discovered are a lot smaller.

- A lot of people disappearing in one alley or basement might rouse suspiscion in a large settlement. But who cares when an unsignificant traveller leaves town and goes into the wilderness? It happens all the time.

- Making huge open halls and rooms under the ground in cities would threaten structural integrity of the buildings above.

- Far from civilisation, scholars could easily attend their studies without being disturbed.

- In the wild, the library could be extended endlessly.

One final comment, instead of building "in the forest" has anyone thought of a more mountainous environment? It's a known fact that Oblivion will have plenty of mountains (to make up for the "natural borders"). Maybe we could have the library carved into a mountain? The space that can be carved out is limitless. Light could be provided by shafts going through the mountain side (and other light sources of course). And a bit of paint and some wood can do wonders for the interior, making it as cosy as any normal building.

And last, but not least, this environment has one great advantage: Provided the entrance is well hidden, there is virtually no way of getting in without help from the inside; you can't walk through stone. Even if the Empire would send a patrol to find the location of the library, they wouldn't find it and all of it precious content would be well protected.

Well, that's my two cents.

Posted by: Alexander Jun 8 2005, 09:50 PM

@Adanorcil

I believe it's already been decided that it will be placed in a city yes

Posted by: stargate525 Jun 9 2005, 04:14 AM

[quote=Alexander]@Adanorcil

I believe it's already been decided that it will be placed in a city yes [/quote]
ja, der topic ist kaput. der bibliothek ist in der town.

Posted by: Troika Jun 9 2005, 11:20 AM

The library will be in a city.... which one yet, we don't know. It will be fronted by what appears to be a small book shop (or print shop), staffed by one or two NPCs. After fulfilling certain requirements, you are given access to the library, which is eccessed by a secret entrance.

The library will have most of its size underground, as a large cavern was discovered when Corryn was scouting around for locations and almost killed himself after the small courtyard behind the shop gave way (I know, it's a bit bat-cavey... but what the hell). So the shop was bought, the cavern built in and upon and the library created. Voila!

And if I hear anyone discuss why they think it should be in a forest again... *shakes fist menacingly*

Posted by: Troika Jun 9 2005, 11:47 AM

I just had an epiphany that should clear up one minor discussion we were having, over whether or not Morrowind's books should be included in the library.

How about if the print shop used as a fake front for the library had them there, so it was a print shop/book shop?

Posted by: stargate525 Jun 9 2005, 05:24 PM

[quote=Troika]I just had an epiphany that should clear up one minor discussion we were having, over whether or not Morrowind's books should be included in the library.

How about if the print shop used as a fake front for the library had them there, so it was a print shop/book shop?[/quote]

so MW books are in. good.

It IS a print shop for certain then?

also, who were you thinking as being the staff? You and Corryn obviously, the Librarian and the apprentice. But the head editors or what?

Posted by: Chumbaniya Jun 9 2005, 06:16 PM

[quote=stargate525][quote=Alexander]@Adanorcil

I believe it's already been decided that it will be placed in a city yes [/quote]
ja, der topic ist kaput. der bibliothek ist in der town.[/quote]

Stadt, Stargate, not town

Posted by: Adanorcil Jun 9 2005, 07:33 PM

[quote=Alexander]@Adanorcil

I believe it's already been decided that it will be placed in a city yes [/quote]
Thank you, that's good to know.

Posted by: stargate525 Jun 9 2005, 09:11 PM

[quote=Chumbaniya][quote=stargate525][quote=Alexander]@Adanorcil

I believe it's already been decided that it will be placed in a city yes [/quote]
ja, der topic ist kaput. der bibliothek ist in der town.[/quote]

Stadt, Stargate, not town [/quote]
right,right, school's over and my german has been put away for the summer... is 'topic' correct though?

Posted by: Alexander Jun 9 2005, 10:26 PM

[quote=Troika]I just had an epiphany that should clear up one minor discussion we were having, over whether or not Morrowind's books should be included in the library.

How about if the print shop used as a fake front for the library had them there, so it was a print shop/book shop?[/quote]

nice idea

was just pondering on something similar.

and I think it would be easy to get that in the mod, you'd only need to copy the text from the books either from the CS or from the imperial library.


one other thing to consider.

the size of the library, sure there are many projects being done, and many books written but when talking about a library like you've been talking about so far I really imagine it to be huge, a huge arched chamber filled to the brim with books. but given the quantity there would either be a very small arched chamber that looks filled to the brim, a very large and very empty chamber of books or a chamber filled to the brim with many duplicates.

I wonder what your thoughts are about that or if anyone has even ever considered this.

Posted by: stargate525 Jun 9 2005, 11:38 PM

[quote=Alexander][quote=Troika]I just had an epiphany that should clear up one minor discussion we were having, over whether or not Morrowind's books should be included in the library.

How about if the print shop used as a fake front for the library had them there, so it was a print shop/book shop?[/quote]

nice idea

was just pondering on something similar.

and I think it would be easy to get that in the mod, you'd only need to copy the text from the books either from the CS or from the imperial library.


one other thing to consider.

the size of the library, sure there are many projects being done, and many books written but when talking about a library like you've been talking about so far I really imagine it to be huge, a huge arched chamber filled to the brim with books. but given the quantity there would either be a very small arched chamber that looks filled to the brim, a very large and very empty chamber of books or a chamber filled to the brim with many duplicates.

I wonder what your thoughts are about that or if anyone has even ever considered this.[/quote]

shhh. We might also sneak the daggerfall, arena, and obllivion books in there, so that would add up to well over 1000 just by themselves im betting.

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 10 2005, 01:45 PM

You can probably get ten books on a decently sized shelf and, say, five shelves on a one-sided bookcase. So that's 20 bookcases for the entire 1000 Arena/Dag/Mor/Oblivion collection - fairly smallish ones at that. 10 if we're putting them back-to-back. We'd need a lot more than that to look more like Bodleian Library than Ottokar's.

Also, an idea came into my head. When I think of a really huge library, I think of high-arched ceilings and tall, rising bookcases stretching off towards the ceiling. Normal libraries/bookshops however have ladders to reach inaccessible shelves - how would we do that here? Hand out Levitation potions on entrance (or Telekinesis)? Of course, we could always limit it to short, stocky shelves like in Morrowind, but that's less fun and doesn't look as impressive in a huge hall.

Posted by: vaanic~one Jun 10 2005, 04:23 PM

eh, how about having the whole wall plastered with books, with a sort of "Two floors on one floor system" AKA a balcony the whole way round the wall half way up, would that work?

Posted by: KhabaLox Jun 10 2005, 04:49 PM

I'm not sure having potions or scrolls of levitation/tk would work. You would have to regen them somehow and I don't know if that is possible or not. Perhaps having an NPC who sells those spells cheaply could work, but then you have to have the appropriate skill.

Does anyone know if you can make ladders in the CS? I know there were no ladders in MW, but you should be able to make a really steep staircase that you can see through so it looks like a ladder. I also like the idea of vaulted ceilings and tall bookcases or a two story room with a balcony wrapping all around.

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 10 2005, 06:28 PM

A balcony would work - but only around the walls. Depending on how wide the room is, there would probably still be a few shelves in the middle... then again it could be done sort of more upwards - have tall circular halls that rise up in four or five balconies at a time; would look very nice when you're standing at the bottom and looking up at the walls of books rising up into the darkness above

Posted by: Adanorcil Jun 10 2005, 07:34 PM

I think that a library ladder could easily be modelled. Afterwards, it can probably be scripted to move the player upwards when he collides with it. (There even are collision detection functions in Morrowind.)

Posted by: Alexander Jun 10 2005, 11:31 PM

[quote=KhabaLox]I'm not sure having potions or scrolls of levitation/tk would work. You would have to regen them somehow and I don't know if that is possible or not. Perhaps having an NPC who sells those spells cheaply could work, but then you have to have the appropriate skill.
[/quote]


or maybe after showing your members card at the door, you get a special item of some kind with a levitate spell enchanted.

and of course disabling teleporting to make sure no one can leave with that ring, then when you check out of the library you have to give back the ring else the door won't open,

a simple yet effective solution,.

Posted by: stargate525 Jun 10 2005, 11:46 PM

[quote=Alexander]
or maybe after showing your members card at the door, you get a special item of some kind with a levitate spell enchanted.

and of course disabling teleporting to make sure no one can leave with that ring, then when you check out of the library you have to give back the ring else the door won't open,

a simple yet effective solution,.[/quote]

perhaps we worry about that later once we actually get that many books yes?


I'm actually partial to a balcony with spiral staircases myself.

Posted by: Troika Jun 11 2005, 11:38 AM

So is everyone happy with what has been discussed over the main hall and the front 'cover', considering how everyone seems to be moving onto to other subjects...

But spirakl staircases, and balconies, are always good ideas, and I say the more we cram into the library, the better it will be!

And a definite thumbs up to ladders, although it may not be necessary for them to be functional... If we don't end up with a vast amount of books, we could just have a fake upper section of books, just to give the appearance of more books...

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 11 2005, 12:29 PM

Not necessarily fake... just duplicates, why?

Because I just can't wait to go in, cast an area 500 fireball and see them all fly in a glorious, Havok imbued, avalanche all around me

Then again, we might have framerate issues if that were the case :embarrassed:

Posted by: stargate525 Jun 11 2005, 05:47 PM

[quote=9of9]Not necessarily fake... just duplicates, why?

Because I just can't wait to go in, cast an area 500 fireball and see them all fly in a glorious, Havok imbued, avalanche all around me

Then again, we might have framerate issues if that were the case :embarrassed:[/quote]
hmmm, sounds fun.

troika, so what WAS discussed over the front cover and the main hall?

Posted by: vaanic~one Jun 11 2005, 07:15 PM

about the ladders thing. We cannot have ladders for every single piece of wall, that would cram up the library, and we would end up not being able to actually able to get to the bottom part of the books.

So we would have to have about one ladder per wall, right? So we would have to make the ladder moveable in order for us to be able to get to the rest of the upper books. This is not a hard thing consideing that OB has a physics engine (phew!), but it is something I thought should be brought up.

as for the balconies. we cannot have ladders in conjunction with balconies. So the layout could be that half the rooms have balconies and half have ladders. perhaps in a routine way, which would make things look nicer.

Posted by: stargate525 Jun 11 2005, 11:56 PM

[quote=vaanic~one]about the ladders thing. We cannot have ladders for every single piece of wall, that would cram up the library, and we would end up not being able to actually able to get to the bottom part of the books.

So we would have to have about one ladder per wall, right? So we would have to make the ladder moveable in order for us to be able to get to the rest of the upper books. This is not a hard thing consideing that OB has a physics engine (phew!), but it is something I thought should be brought up.

as for the balconies. we cannot have ladders in conjunction with balconies. So the layout could be that half the rooms have balconies and half have ladders. perhaps in a routine way, which would make things look nicer.[/quote]

maybe a half balcony? Sorta like the one in Beauty and the Beast? I think I could pull that off.

Posted by: 9of9 Jun 12 2005, 06:25 AM

[quote=vaanic~one]about the ladders thing. We cannot have ladders for every single piece of wall, that would cram up the library, and we would end up not being able to actually able to get to the bottom part of the books.

So we would have to have about one ladder per wall, right? So we would have to make the ladder moveable in order for us to be able to get to the rest of the upper books. This is not a hard thing consideing that OB has a physics engine (phew!), but it is something I thought should be brought up.

as for the balconies. we cannot have ladders in conjunction with balconies. So the layout could be that half the rooms have balconies and half have ladders. perhaps in a routine way, which would make things look nicer.[/quote]

As I mentioned before - balconies can in the end only go around walls. Depending on the size of the hall we could have balconies going up walls, yet we would still have space for a few tall bookshelves in the middle of it all. Hence, still the need for ladders of some sort.

Posted by: vaanic~one Jun 12 2005, 03:58 PM

[quote="9of9"][quote=vaanic~one]
As I mentioned before - balconies can in the end only go around walls. Depending on the size of the hall we could have balconies going up walls, yet we would still have space for a few tall bookshelves in the middle of it all. Hence, still the need for ladders of some sort.[/quote]

Aha! that solves it!

Posted by: WillyBubba Jun 23 2005, 04:04 AM

Troika, I love the idea for printing the old books as the front for the library. That'll be really easy to pull off as well. Just a bunch of copy and pasting.

I like the balcony thing as well. Perhaps a door to enter the main library, and at the opposite end is a set of staiors, leading to the second floor, which is only partial, as that is where the balconies are. So it'd look perhaps a bit like this:

________/ _________
IB BI
IB BI
IB BI
ISSSSSSS SSSSSSSSI
___________________
S = Stairs
B = Balcony
I and _ = Walls
/ = Main Doors

Not to scale or anything, but it gets the idea across. And we could duplicate the stairs and balcony, on the second floor, at the opposite end of the first flight, if needed. Ladders seem like quite a project to me... but I have limited scripting know. Perhpas Alexander's rental ring thing. Ahwell, plenty of time to figure that stuff out.

Posted by: vaanic~one Jun 23 2005, 09:51 AM

I like that idea willybubba.

Posted by: Hukai The Wandering Jul 2 2005, 08:29 PM

no one has said anything about how you get in in the first place so here i go! how about this?

The library is in trouble of being found out. Someone high up in the chain of command has issued an order for about 50 copies of a certain book to be met on a very strict deadline. Being as the printing press (isn't that mid-century?) is just a cover, they can only provide 15-20 of these book if the staff works round-the-clock. To gain adminsion to their myterious library, they ask you to find/steal/buy the remain 30-35 books so that they can fullfil their quota without suspicion. Upon delivery of the books (either in installments or all at the same time) you are then recognised as being worthy to enter.

Something like that...but why would they tell some random stranger about their being fake?

...

Mabye you get a option like "Threaten to reveal the library if you are not let in."

Hmm...

EDIT: I doubt it could be used but. I like the whole leveatation idea. It brings to mind and endless tunnel going up. The walls are circular and pack with books. Every now and then there is a circular balcony running all around the wall with a large hole in the middle. The balcony is filled with plushy chairs for reading. Afer each balcony, the book-lined walls keep rising. I'l make a quick sketch to show it but that's my other idea.

Posted by: jonajosa Jul 3 2005, 05:30 AM

The library wasn't going to be a faction. However i have been exploring the thought of having to do some "Favor quests" for some guy who lives in the middle of the city and knows about the library and its treasures.

Heres what I have so far.

Lets say the Library goes in Anvil ok?

You walk around and a guy will aproach you outside a tavern. He asks you if you want to know a secret and natrualy you say "yes." So he rambles on and on about this fabled Library and its lost treasures. After a while of listening to his... information he finally tells you that he knows where this library is and how to get to it. However this information comes at a price. And that price would be a few personal favors for him.

First he tells you someone had accused him of having illegal books. So he asks you to get the guards of his back by planting a illegal book in his accusers house and telling the guards that you saw him acting wierdly in his house. They go check it out and find the book and take him to prison.

Next he wants you to get a book that he has wanted ever since his childhood but could never afford it. Apparently he still can't afford it and he wants you to steal it for him. Its in a manor on the rich side of town. Steal it and bring it back.

Last the guy gives you a simple task. Go to the park in the middle of town that night and wait for him to meet you there. Once he meets you there he takes you on walk towards the middle of town and outside a book store. He takes you inside and leads you to a wall covered by a tapestry. He moves it out of the way and behind it is a door. You both go through it and down a long stair case and go through another door.

You walk through and enter a high ceiling room with lights hanging everywhere to brighten the place up. He then walks infront of you and tells you the magic words. "Welcome to my library."

You see? The guy giving you the quests at the begining is actually the librarian and he's testing you to know if you should be the next librarian after he dies.

That i think would be the most spectacular begining to a mod like this.

Posted by: vaanic~one Jul 6 2005, 12:06 AM

[quote=jonajosa]The library wasn't going to be a faction. However i have been exploring the thought of having to do some "Favor quests" for some guy who lives in the middle of the city and knows about the library and its treasures.

Heres what I have so far.

Lets say the Library goes in Anvil ok?

You walk around and a guy will aproach you outside a tavern. He asks you if you want to know a secret and natrualy you say "yes." So he rambles on and on about this fabled Library and its lost treasures. After a while of listening to his... information he finally tells you that he knows where this library is and how to get to it. However this information comes at a price. And that price would be a few personal favors for him.

First he tells you someone had accused him of having illegal books. So he asks you to get the guards of his back by planting a illegal book in his accusers house and telling the guards that you saw him acting wierdly in his house. They go check it out and find the book and take him to prison.

Next he wants you to get a book that he has wanted ever since his childhood but could never afford it. Apparently he still can't afford it and he wants you to steal it for him. Its in a manor on the rich side of town. Steal it and bring it back.

Last the guy gives you a simple task. Go to the park in the middle of town that night and wait for him to meet you there. Once he meets you there he takes you on walk towards the middle of town and outside a book store. He takes you inside and leads you to a wall covered by a tapestry. He moves it out of the way and behind it is a door. You both go through it and down a long stair case and go through another door.

You walk through and enter a high ceiling room with lights hanging everywhere to brighten the place up. He then walks infront of you and tells you the magic words. "Welcome to my library."

You see? The guy giving you the quests at the begining is actually the librarian and he's testing you to know if you should be the next librarian after he dies.

That i think would be the most spectacular begining to a mod like this.[/quote]

Hell yeah! Love that last bit, perhaps the quests should be of the challenging type though.

Posted by: jonajosa Jul 6 2005, 06:11 AM

As you can see im still exploring the the diffrent ways we can do the whole quest part. But im glad you like it. I intend to stick with all of the suff you just saw except the actuall quests you do. Those were just examples.

Posted by: stargate525 Jul 17 2005, 08:57 PM

good grief, I miss three weeks and I'm really behind...


wanna revise the sorting of the books a bit. probably break up stories into fiction and non-fiction sections, and putting poems, plays, and that sort of thing in an 'Poetry & Arts' section.

also, I'm thinking ive got a semi-final version of what the main library would look like, but since I'm not at my home computer, I cant show you, so I will ahve to try and describe it.



you enter through the secret passage, and at the beginning it looks like regular sewers. nothing too special about them. Then you go through a second entrance, into a large, three story chamber. you are beneath the main floor, and a ramp leads upward. above you is a bridge that spans over the entrance. On the bridge would be any sort of 'special' items. (it's kinda like a basement garage with a first-level driveway, kinda?)

On the main floor, there are doors that lead to the different wings (fiction, non-fiction, 'forbidden' books, skillbooks, poetry & arts, and any I forgot.) each wing is unique, but still in the same sort of style. (so no japanese pagoda unless the whole thing is a pagoda)

above the main floor, connected by stairs and catwalk like things, are the main editor's offices. I really want this section to seem from below that it is floating.

below the main chamber are three rooms which I have dubbed the 'vault', 'preservation room', and 'duplication room'.

The vault is where the originals of the books are stored, warehouse style, without the fanciness of the library proper. Its protected from fire, flood, magic, the works.
this is basically to ensure that at least one copy of the books exist, regardless of discovery of the real library. a failsafe, if you will.

the preservation room deals with preserving the books in the vault. pretty straightforward.

the duplication room is where the books go to be reproduced if they are too sensitive or fragile to survive the trip up to the office front. small room, one press, two tops.


comments and requests for clarification are welcome.

Posted by: raithen Jul 18 2005, 04:30 PM

I like it! And welcome back, stargate!!

Posted by: Stargazey Jul 18 2005, 04:39 PM

Posted by: stargate525 Jul 21 2005, 09:24 PM

well, not entirely back- Im back at my house, but in my absence the computer decided to quit working. Will try and be on more than once every two weeks though....

Posted by: WillyBubba Aug 7 2005, 11:35 PM

Actually, that could make some scripting things easier, even if being a member of this faction meant nothing more than gaining access to the actual library and being allowed to read the books.

What I mean is, you can't become a member until you've gained the trust of the guy you keep meeting. After gaining his trust (reward at the end of a quest/quest string) you become a member, and maybe we even make a little "library card" to show you are a member. Then, to gain access to the secret library we make a script on the door to enter the library that only allows you to access it if a certain condition is met.

That condition would be that you are a member of the faction.

Or, the condition could be that you must have the library card in your inventory, thus eliminating the need for the faction.

BTW, anyone know about how many books have been contributed so far.

And finally, welcome not-entirely-back stargate!

Posted by: stargate525 Aug 8 2005, 02:32 AM

your late, I am now the 'entirely-back and kickin with a monster computer' member formerly known as stargate

And I guess we now need to think about a room for our comrades in literature who have succumb to the pullings of real life and have abandoned the cause...

Posted by: Konradude Aug 8 2005, 11:18 AM

Can we see the library now?

Posted by: stargate525 Aug 8 2005, 08:22 PM

no we can't, because I, like everyone else exept bethesda, dont have a copy of the CS, and I'm not about to spend time doing it in Mw's unless I have to.

Posted by: Konradude Aug 11 2005, 05:22 PM

I mean the drawing or whatever...

Posted by: stargate525 Aug 11 2005, 10:19 PM

no scanner. I might take apicture of it with my digital camera and try that...

Posted by: stargate525 Aug 22 2005, 09:09 PM

what do you guys think about a tomb for the founders that are confirmed dead? maybe behind their statues or sommat, with a copy of their favorite book and a favorite item of theirs?

Posted by: minque Aug 22 2005, 09:43 PM

Well I like the idea.....hmm who are confirmed dead then?

Posted by: stargate525 Aug 23 2005, 05:09 PM

I dunno, I'll have to read the founder's fates to tell...

PS, picture of floorplan coming up momentarily.

Posted by: stargate525 Aug 23 2005, 05:34 PM

and here it is!



Alright, the things that look like little dollar signs are actually secret doors, the bars are regular doors, and each 'sqaure' is the size of one of the Mw CS editor building tiles.

you walk into that corridor on the top right, from the bottom. in each one of those small branches will be a statue of the founders, anchanted maybe or something really cool. Behind them, past the secret door, would be their tomb (if they are confirmed dead). If we wanted, we can extend that further to add in the editors or whoever we want.

that little three by three room off the long corridor is the first 'fake' room. In there will be rubbish, remnants of a printing press, etc. We'll make it look like someone already ransacked the library, and that that was all there was to it. (Like the fake room in National Treasure). In there will be a secret door, through that is another hallway, at the end of which is another secret door. the second three by three room is like the first, only a bit more intact. Still looks ransacked though. through the other secret door in THAT room, is another corridor that leads to the actual main hall of the library.

The main hall is that long room. near the door are stiars that lead up to balconies. (the little square things on the edge.) Off the balconies and the main floor are the various wings of the library where the books are. Notice the number of halls leading off the hall, 13. perhaps we should name each one after a founder? Anyways. The corridor to the north of the hall is actually a hall of the library too, it's the vault, where the most heinous writings are kept. (things like how to become a werewolf, how to become a God, things like that) the hallway to the actual vault at the end should be locked, trapped, have all sorts of fun little surprises. W can make that as long or as short as needed. I didn't draw the other halls, as there is no telling right now how big they will each need to be.

comments, concerns?

Posted by: Stargazey Aug 23 2005, 10:27 PM

If there's anyway to fit it in, I'd like to put KhabaLox's idea of answering a riddle in somewhere? Don't know if that fits in with what you're planning, but I'll mention it anyway.


Great job, though.

Posted by: vaanic~one Aug 23 2005, 11:13 PM

In order to open a secret door you have to answer a riddle?

Posted by: stargate525 Aug 24 2005, 04:06 AM

perhaps each of the founder's rooms are opened via a riddle presented by their statues?


Other than that, anything else to add/subtract/alter?

Posted by: Red Aug 24 2005, 05:01 AM

Thats actually a pretty good idea. If you want, I could create a few riddles incase we think deeper into that idea.

Posted by: Stargazey Aug 24 2005, 02:07 PM

That's what I'm talking about! Also, if there was a secret, secret roo, that could be opened by a riddle.


Sure, make up a few.

Posted by: Red Aug 24 2005, 03:03 PM

Aye aye Stargazey, I shall create riddles until my brain hurts.

Posted by: stargate525 Aug 25 2005, 02:54 AM

I'll see if I can get some riddles too. Also, I want to have the statues give a history of their founder. Generic voice, the voice of whoever the founder is, or just text?

Onto Easter eggs!

Since we're on the subject of statues, I was thinking that we have five items scattered around the library, four busts of people and some other generic item, when you place the busts together and activate the item, they go 'haunted mansion' on you! (for those of you who have never been on the ride or seen the movie, they take the last thing someone around them says and turns it into a barbershop quartet song. very funny.)


there could easily be a number of riddles as security in the vault hallway. I want that room to be the hardest, most difficult room to get into that the fans of TES have ever seen!

Posted by: Stargazey Aug 25 2005, 03:55 AM

This ^ is what I'm talking about.



Sounds good to me. All of it.

Posted by: stargate525 Aug 26 2005, 03:08 AM

oh good. Now then, its yyour guy's decision wether the statues will actually talk, or if they'll just subtitle it all.

Posted by: Red Aug 26 2005, 05:23 AM

Ok, I have four riddles done, so if you want to see them, PM me. Well, off to write more riddles.

Posted by: Wurlon Aug 27 2005, 03:19 PM

You could create a giant lake in the middle of the forest, but put a super tall hill on the one side so if you swim in there will be a giant cave like entrance, in which the library would be. Kind of ironic since we don't want our books wet, but it's a game

Edit: Actually I must say I'm impressed, I tried a simple mod to wall off raven rock using plain copying and it ended in disaster. If your able to do what you've said I'd consider you an unofficial developer. I wish I had joined this forum sooner, but at least I already entered my story.....

Posted by: stargate525 Aug 27 2005, 07:17 PM

sorry, it's already decided in a city. Also, I am by no means the best interior designer.

Posted by: Wurlon Aug 27 2005, 11:38 PM

Heh don't be sorry I'm the goof that didn't read all the posts

Posted by: stargate525 Aug 29 2005, 06:43 PM

yeah ya goof.

Posted by: Wurlon Aug 29 2005, 11:37 PM

Offtopic.....

Posted by: Hukai The Wandering Sep 7 2005, 02:17 AM

GRRRRRR!!!!!!!!! What about the idea many people said? Have an absolutely huge center room for the library the give it a sense of grandness instead of skinny hallways that make you feel like not-supossed-to-be.......Nevermind.....

Posted by: stargate525 Sep 7 2005, 02:57 AM

A. FPS
B. It wil be 'grand' alright
C. Order is best acheived via individual sections. I never did say what those would look like did I? I want it to be a surprise.

Posted by: Jonajosa Oct 16 2005, 06:15 AM

Ok guys. Nows the time to start actually putting all those plans we made to use.

As we know the game will most likely be released about a week or two... or three after the Xbox360 is released. So we should use this time to pick a city or town to put it in.

We have pics of most of the citys in ES4 Oblivion from this thread- http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=169577&st=0#entry2929549

and based on some of the architecture in the game i'd say... The library would look good in Anvil or in Leyawiin.

Anvil

http://www.pcgames.de/screenshots/original/PCG1005ElderOblifldVFGoiyc12F7.jpg

http://tes.ag.ru/oblivion/artwork/shots/tes4ag23.jpg


Leyawiin

http://tes.ag.ru/oblivion/artwork/shots/tes4ag08.jpg


The towns style look snice and I think that the library (even though it may be underground) would look nice there.

Posted by: minque Oct 16 2005, 08:28 AM

I usually do not say that much in this section, I think you all have very good ideas so I just read with pleasure.

Now I´ve looked over those screenshots from the Cyrodiil-cities...and my favourite is Chorrol, even though the others look nice as well.

My suggestion is to locate the library in Chorrol..


My 2 cents

Posted by: vaanic~one Oct 18 2005, 04:25 PM

I'm still going for putting it in the Imperial city itself, it's the busiest looking city so far, and I think the whole idea of the library would fit in much better in a "busy" city.

Posted by: stargate525 Oct 19 2005, 12:47 AM

MUST you remind me that the time is approaching when I actually have to DO something?

Posted by: Wurlon Oct 21 2005, 11:23 PM

Wait, the PC version of Oblivion comes out after xbox 360? Oh crap I never finished my poetry book CRAP I forgot...... oh god.....

Posted by: Hukai The Wandering Oct 22 2005, 05:07 AM

Yeah, I forgot all about "The Forgotton Tales" untill a couple of days ago...don't deadlines suck? anyway, i vote for Chorrol(sp?).

Posted by: Forrest_Roberts Oct 29 2005, 11:09 PM

The library was outlawed. It would not make sense to put it in everbody's sight in a big city.

Posted by: vaanic~one Oct 30 2005, 04:14 PM

Yeah, I know that. I don't remember mentioning putting it in full view of everyone.

Hide it. Well.

Posted by: Jonajosa Nov 4 2005, 01:08 AM

Yes. Yes I must.

Posted by: vaanic~one Nov 4 2005, 08:14 PM

Haha, you can stop panicking, sort of.

Since I presume you've heard about this delay issue, I'll say that you may just have a few more months on your hands.

Posted by: stargate525 Nov 4 2005, 11:31 PM

I heard about it a whole ten minutes ago, actually, and am somewhat annoyed.

Posted by: raithen Nov 6 2005, 03:11 AM

*evil laugh*
Now you are all degraded down to the "raithen-level", which is essentially "rock-bottom".
I won't be playing the game for a whole two years from now, so there!

... And just out of curiosity, what will the interior of the library look like? You can't keep the details from us forever, stargate!

Posted by: stargate525 Nov 6 2005, 05:00 AM

you're right, I can't. You'll know as soon as I do*, I promise.



*meaning after rifling through the CS for a few hours putzing around, after playing for about a week.

Posted by: Jaeld Alteir Nov 13 2005, 04:56 PM

Ermm...they wouldn't necessarily have to eat IN the library. We could simply schedule them to close the "Front Office" shop for lunch and wander down to the local tavern. Half the time they would need to go GET food from somewhere anyway, and wasting even more space for storerooms in a library or something would seem even sillier. It seems a little odd for a place like the Tes F'ruum library to devote space to an eating area that could be better used to stack up massive collections of books.

I love the concept of a tiny printers' shop tucked into the end of a little-used alleyway serving as a front, since the whole point of this library is to have it accessible yet hidden. (no point in preserving this knowledge if everyone who tries to come read it gets eaten by minotaurs while trying to find us in the wilderness or something ) And a book-related shop with a few actual customers would be a reasonable way to sift around for people worthy of being shown the Library. So I certainly agree with the Dictatorial Decision.

But, in that same vein, I think we need to keep it fairly focused as a Library. A dormitory for some permanent staff if necessary, yes, but the aforementioned dining hall, no. Reading rooms, stacks, more stacks, maybe some extra-secret stacks, maybe a old-book restoration lab. A special section (even if only a shelf, depending on how prolific they are) for the personal writings of the Librarian and perhaps the other Founders, if they ever churn out enough stuff. But try to keep it just a library, not a city in its own right...

Posted by: Jaeld Alteir Nov 13 2005, 05:06 PM

Right, but I worry that the smaller cities (i.e. the cities that aren't the Imperial City) might be a bit more spread out...most of the buildings standing individually, that sort of thing. Harder to hide a small printer's shop at the end of an alley.

We need somewhere dense enough that you'd never even really notice the addition of a building or another entrance off of an alley. The best place to hide something is wherever there's already the most OTHER stuff to hide amongst. I imagine the guards in the Imperial City would have plenty of better things to worry about, while those in a smaller city might get around to checking in with EVERY shopkeep every now and then...

Posted by: stargate525 Nov 13 2005, 08:29 PM

I used to have alist of all the different sections... I remember having a preservation room (no it does not make delicious jams and jellies), a dormitory (I was thinking a few small apartment-like things), and a Librarian's Apartment (bigger, probably the front office's second story).

Posted by: Ola Martin Mar 15 2006, 10:53 PM

I would like it locked down, way below the imperial city, and be sure not to let any other people get there, only us.

Posted by: WillyBubba Apr 12 2006, 04:20 PM

Well, I've been away for quite awhile, visiting the great cities of Cyrodiil and the horrible realm, of Oblivion. After playing for two weeks now, I'd have to suggest the Black Horse Courier or the First Edition in the Imperial City as the location of our building, as fronts. We could then just add an NPC and some dialogue, as well as a secret entrance somewhere.

Of course, we could then just make our own building all-together. Only about 3 or 4 bookstores exist in Cyrodiil, so there are some cities that we could open a new bookstore in. There are also some places, while hidden in the wilderness, are small churches or cathedrals that might make good locations for a secret library.


Well, I'm back and ready to contribute, though I have to work around La Crosse, learning Latin dance, and school, but I think I'll find time to edit soem stuff if somebody needs some of that done. Cheers Tes F'Ruum members! ~ WB

Posted by: Troika Apr 28 2006, 12:41 PM

I've been playing with the CS for a few hours now (horribly slow progress), and just playing around in the CS has given me a slew of ideas... Let me know what you think of them.

1. Like WillyBubba suggested, we use the First Edition in the IC. Placing an heretical library right under the emperor's nose seems quite fitting.

2. We change as little in the original game world as possible. If someone has the mod installed, but isn't actually looking for the library, there isn't a chance that they'd just stumble upon it.

The Library be a mixture of sewer and ayleid, connected with cave. This is probably the most radical idea I had, and I'd just like to explain. The white and gold tower was built by the early ayleids, and apparently the rest of their constructions in this area were destroyed... what if they were simply just built on top of? And there must be miles of disused sewers beneath the IC, and the two could be easily connected together... With warm lighting and some clever furnishing, they could be made to feel really quite homely... if all goes well, I should be able to give you a small demo cell in a few days.

So, the main idea is this... We place a book in an ayleid ruin (new texture, with the familiar elven tree logo) that when picked up, is old elvish, and you can't read it. A quest window pops up and suggests taking it to a book store, suggesting that it could have some new information about the ayleids, or just be worth a lot of money. You go to the First edition and talk to the guy there, and he tells you that, taking a wquick look at what's written there, you could have unearthed texts that portray the empire to have been much more savage in their takeover of Cyrodiil than first thought, and warns you that such a book could get you in a LOT of trouble. If you reply positively to this comment (suggesting you don't mind a little bit of herecy), the vendor then gives you access to the library... The access being via his basement. The hanging lamp down there would be an activator, that, if you are carrying a special quill given to you by the vendor, can transport you to the library.

Well, that's what I came up with when I started playing about... let me know what you think...

Posted by: vaanic~one Apr 29 2006, 08:27 PM

Sounds great to me!

EDIT: I've quickly done a mock up for a room of the library in the sewers (the room shape was perfect!) and I'd like to show it in 5 pics:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/0loweo/OB/Library5.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/0loweo/OB/Library4.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/0loweo/OB/Library3.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/0loweo/OB/Library2.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/0loweo/OB/Library1.jpg

I wasn't sure where you'd put the actual library itself - So I'm intending to do mockups for your cave and Ayleid ruin parts as well.

It would be cool if we could get someone to do a retex of that sewer room mesh to make it look Ayleidic or perhaps something else.

Also, I've got some pictures of the Imperial Palace Library - do you think we could use it's meshes in any way?:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/0loweo/OB/palace2.gif

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/0loweo/OB/Palace1.gif

Posted by: brgenerator May 1 2006, 11:13 AM

I'd be happy with having it as some kind of Ayleid sewer, yeah. Good idea.

Just out of interest, when it comes to the placement of the library itself, will the different books still be in different rooms? i.e. will there be other rooms off the main one for different genres of books (As was the idea in the orig. plan if i remember correctly).

Posted by: Troika May 2 2006, 09:30 PM

Getting the mock-up finished up, and concentrating mainly on the main entrance hall, which has the Librarian's office to the side, and the connecting tunnel to the sewer at the moment... It's actually pretty large, so I'll concentrate mainly on just getting a few corners finished, so you can get a feel for how it looks in terms of lighting and furnishing... the high ceilings of the ayleid set make it feel really strange, as there's so much space left unused...