The W4O Parliament Options

[jonajosa]

Socialism!

[Channler]

Socialism, to me, is the most perfect form of government.

The government controls everything, there is supposed to be no poor people, no problems whatsever..

But things don't always work that way..

People are evil and power and therefor they will really abuse power. and when someone like that comes into power all the good things of Socialism fade away...

[DoomedOne]

That's in the flawed form of socialism. This flawed form is the one we usually see because revolutionaries use violence, and use any means necessary, which corrupts their ends. Any power corrupts, give someone too much power and they will do anything necessary to keep it.

That's why a socialism where the government controls everything is not perfect. In my opinion, only a government that changes is a perfect one. Human nature simply does not fit into a system where the government has too much power.

I favor a system where there is a tweaked for of republic for the government, and socialism for the economy. Another problem with socialism is once everyone's basic needs are met, there is no supply and demand, and therefore the government feels no motive to expand on that technology.

I'm more in favor of a regulated capitalism. The government would technically own all businesses, but they'd be managed by people, and therefore all people in this country would get what they give. Just ebcause they managed a business does not mean they could reap from the rewards, it'd be a regular working job like any other.

Freedom of trade without barbie dolls making little girls depressed, mcdonalds serving bad meat, pharmacuticals making drugs that make people more sick or corporations exploiting workers. No more Oil companies paying off car companies not to make alternate-energy vehicles. No more corporations lobbying in congress that would pass bills that in the end up harming the people so they can put more money in their pockets.

[Channler]

[quote=DoomedOne]
Freedom of trade without barbie dolls making little girls depressed, mcdonalds serving bad meat, pharmacuticals making drugs that make people more sick or corporations exploiting workers. No more Oil companies paying off car companies not to make alternate-energy vehicles. No more corporations lobbying in congress that would pass bills that in the end up harming the people so they can put more money in their pockets.[/quote]

Hell, your talking about heaven there.

[DoomedOne]

Well, to me heaven is when you manage to leave this world in better shape then when you entered it. It's only a matter of time. I've been figuring it all in my head and writing it down, basically as a hobby.

So now that topic is over, time for a new one.

What do you bguys think of those people down in Texas killing illegal immigrants crossing the border?

[minque]

Good Morning all debaters!

I´ve been reading the posts since i left yesterday and I´m impressed. This thread really is a good one and shows that we can discuss these kind of topics without it getting overboard.

So if we continue like this we´ll have this thread alive and running for the benefit of us all.


Keep it going you guys, and have a nice day! :goodjob:

[Aki]

[quote=DoomedOne]
What do you bguys think of those people down in Texas killing illegal immigrants crossing the border?[/quote]

I don't think they should kill them, but some punishment would be due, or at least sending them back where they came from. Killing is a bit extreme.

[Fuzzy Knight]

[quote=minque]Good Morning all debaters!

I´ve been reading the posts since i left yesterday and I´m impressed. This thread really is a good one and shows that we can discuss these kind of topics without it getting overboard.

So if we continue like this we´ll have this thread alive and running for the benefit of us all.


Keep it going you guys, and have a nice day! :goodjob:[/quote]
I will... Me, Baby Nord and some... other... friends... :ashamed: Are going to watch Star Wars today... Episode III that is..

[Chumbaniya]

[quote=jonajosa]Socialism![/quote]

I think in theory socialism makes sense, but in practice it can't actually end up working. If you take a "perfect" socialist society, its a good society, but there's no way of actually setting up a perfect socialist society - the people in power are always those who desire power, and in desiring power they must want control over others - these people could not create a perfect socialist society, since it would be all about equality, which they do not desire.

(forgive me if I'm spouting rubbish)

[jonajosa]

Better to have it work for alittle at the begining then not work at all from the start.

The people in NM do not kill the Immigrants(some might and thats wrong). They watch them from over the fence and report to the Border watch patrol what they see.

[Channler]

[quote=DoomedOne]
What do you bguys think of those people down in Texas killing illegal immigrants crossing the border?[/quote]

Whered you hear that about them killing the immigrants? The worst thing I heard of is them holding two of them to gunpoint.

I say we just build a big wall from californa, to florida... and then shoot pellet guns at them.. j/k

But I am glad that the minute men and what not are doing the job that the governemt isn't.

You know how many illegal mexicans we got in Nash County North Carolina alone!? Well to put it simple, I know about 13 of them that are illegal. Those 13 work at a job that 13 US citizins could work at, thus killing our economy.

[DoomedOne]

Killing our economy? It actually helps our economy. It puts certain people out of work but the fact that the jobs are being filled means work is being done, and since they're being paid less it's being done more efficiently.

Anyway, I heard they were shooting the immigrants. I know a lot of people that feel really strongly against illegal immigration, but I don't really have an opinion on it. I mean, it's not like they come here because they're sitting in Mexico thinking, "You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to sneak into America and take some American guy's job. Yeah, that'll piss 'em off." They're coming because their situation down in Mexico has become so bad for them they don't have any choice.

[Channler]

[quote=DoomedOne]Killing our economy? It actually helps our economy. It puts certain people out of work but the fact that the jobs are being filled means work is being done, and since they're being paid less it's being done more efficiently.[/quote]

American citizins usually put money back into the economy.. not send it to mexico..

[quote=DoomedOne]They're coming because their situation down in Mexico has become so bad for them they don't have any choice.[/quote]

Thats not really our problem now is it? (Though I would support the invasion of Mexico.. and Canada for that matter..)

Seariously(SP?) though, it isn't that bad down there, I've been to ol' mexico several time with meh family. I will say there are numerous bad parts, but thats like america..

Wasn't NAFTA supposed to help mexico? In turn it hurt us more than it helped them.

BTW maybe if its that bad they should revolt?

[jonajosa]

I agree with Channler.

[DoomedOne]

That's a little unrealistic. They don't come to America politically. They're not waiting for a debate when they cross the border. They're not trying to jsutify anything.

Also, it's not the situation over all. Where have you been? Cancun? Baha?

[minque]

yeah...we kinda have a problem with immigrants here as well.....so I go with Channler .....A lot of ppl here are really annoyed with these immigrants....and I understand then despite I am an immigrant´s daugter... :embarrassed:

[jonajosa]

Where are you orginally from Minque?

[minque]

I was born in Sweden , my mom is genuine swedish, and my father is german.......originally from that area near Neanderthal... :shocked:

[Chumbaniya]

I've got nothing against immigration (I'm from England, if that's of any relevance to this) but I'm against the way the government are dealing with it. The fact that its so easy to immigrate to britain then live on benefits annoys me - I don't think the government should be issuing so many hand outs, and should ensure that immigrants are working or looking for work within a certain time of arriving, just as anyone else would.

Obviously though the case in england is completely different, since the immigration is usually from asia. There's one thing that does annoy me about immigration though, and that is the fact that some immigrants do not make an effort to learn english. I wouldn't expect to be able to live in a foreign country without speaking the language, and it creates a lot of problems. I dont come across this a lot but I think it tends to happen when there is a high concentration of immigrants in an area.

[jonajosa]

I agree. If you are coming to live in a english speaking nation then you should atleast try to learn to speak in english.