Waiting4Oblivion Parliament: The Second Runner Options

[DoomedOne]

well it's like that old saying jona, "You can do many things to slow to hasten truth, but you cannot destroy it."

[jonajosa]

I still wish to know what this "truth" is.

The people at that website would think diffrently if they came down here. Some of these people would kill you at a moments notice. It doesn't matter who you are or what you believe in... If your not Muslim and you won't recognise Muhammed as the true savior then "you're marked on their list of dead men."

It makes me sad and angry at the same time when we are fighting over here for our country and all we ever hear about our home is that people there are constantly protesting and yeeling at us. Why?...

[DoomedOne]

The word war and the word conflict are not synonimous, if that is what you are suggesting. Conflict can lead to war, and if one of the parties in a conflict is willing to throw reason to the dust, conflict will lead to war. Yes, its human nature for certain humans to give up reason, to commit violence, and more importantly to tell a bunch of other people to commit violence as well. However, war is not in my nature.

[Channler]

[quote=Sinder Velvin]Watch this.[/quote]

I hope you all are not implying that the US is 'red people'. And I KNOW your not talking about the the 'yellow people' being the Taliban or Saddam's armys.. If so where are the killing feilds?

Regaurdless though the slaughter of the yellow people was absolutly and horribly wrong, is it not also their own fault that they didn't protect themselves? Thats like me walking into the slums of my town, flashin all my stuff and having some dude mug or kill me. Was it my fault? No, Should it happen? No, Should I walk in the slums with all my bling-bling? No...

War will never end, I hate to tell you all that, but it is the only thing that is true in this world.

Horace
In peace, as a wise man, he should make suitable preparation for war.

[jonajosa]

I love that qoute. But i think it goes somthing like this...

"A wise man in times of peace, prepares for war."

[DoomedOne]

The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come. When in a state of security he does not forget the possibility of ruin. When all is orderly, he does not forget that disorder may come. Thus his person is not endangered, and his States and all their clans are preserved.
Confucius

[minque]

[quote=Sinder Velvin]Watch this.[/quote]

This is not WAR...it´s invasion.......invasion of a minor country by a superior one.! Like the soviet invasion of former Czechoslovakia, the yellow ones didn´t fight back......

I was young when the russians invaded Czechoslovakia, it caght me right in my belly at that time, I couldn´t believe it was actually happening....

I can´t accept such things.................... it makes me sad..

[DoomedOne]

Yeah but look at history. Do you honestly think the yellow guys just let themselves all get killed? No, obviously they were enslaved, and over time there was constant rioting and terrorist attack by yellow because they had no other means to fight back.

[minque]

why yes....it would be their way of defense.....in czechoslovakia it was a non-violent defense.....of couse they wouldn´t let themselves get killed ..at least not all of them.....I followed that czech-invasion

[Wolfie]

I wasn't alive around then lol
But i think the pacifisticness (i think i just invented a new word lol ) of the yellows is probably exaggerated

[Red]

[quote=Channler][quote=Sinder Velvin]Watch this.[/quote]

I hope you all are not implying that the US is 'red people'. And I KNOW your not talking about the the 'yellow people' being the Taliban or Saddam's armys.. If so where are the killing feilds?

Regaurdless though the slaughter of the yellow people was absolutly and horribly wrong, is it not also their own fault that they didn't protect themselves? Thats like me walking into the slums of my town, flashin all my stuff and having some dude mug or kill me. Was it my fault? No, Should it happen? No, Should I walk in the slums with all my bling-bling? No...

War will never end, I hate to tell you all that, but it is the only thing that is true in this world.

Horace
In peace, as a wise man, he should make suitable preparation for war.[/quote]

I'm not saying that that's the conflict of America and Iraq in a nutshell, what I'm saying is that both countries think the other is evil and they themselves are good. In war, usually both sides are "evil" and have a reason to be attacked or to attack, but sometimes they don't weigh up to eachother. Should Jeff kill Andy because Andy threatened Jerry? Think of the Aztecs. We all believe the Spanish were terrible for attacking, raiding and exterminating the Aztecs (which they were) but the Aztecs sacrificed tens of thousands of people (sometimes in a few months).

[DoomedOne]

[quote=Red][quote=Channler][quote=Sinder Velvin]Watch this.[/quote]

I hope you all are not implying that the US is 'red people'. And I KNOW your not talking about the the 'yellow people' being the Taliban or Saddam's armys.. If so where are the killing feilds?

Regaurdless though the slaughter of the yellow people was absolutly and horribly wrong, is it not also their own fault that they didn't protect themselves? Thats like me walking into the slums of my town, flashin all my stuff and having some dude mug or kill me. Was it my fault? No, Should it happen? No, Should I walk in the slums with all my bling-bling? No...

War will never end, I hate to tell you all that, but it is the only thing that is true in this world.

Horace
In peace, as a wise man, he should make suitable preparation for war.[/quote]

I'm not saying that that's the conflict of America and Iraq in a nutshell, what I'm saying is that both countries think the other is evil and they themselves are good. In war, usually both sides are "evil" and have a reason to be attacked or to attack, but sometimes they don't weigh up to eachother. Should Jeff kill Andy because Andy threatened Jerry? Think of the Aztecs. We all believe the Spanish were terrible for attacking, raiding and exterminating the Aztecs (which they were) but the Aztecs sacrificed tens of thousands of people (sometimes in a few months).[/quote]

You exaggerated the aztecs. They sacrificed all their captives, and they mgiht have carried away like 50 from every battle. Mayans, however, simply forced their captives to convert to their religion and culture, and didn't sacrifice anybody, and the spanish slaughtered them as well.

Anyway, it all comes down to perception. Everything was extremely simplified in that thing, not personifying any real conflicts, just showing a bunch of mindless drones murdering a bunch of innocent fools. Ina ctuality, the spaniards perception was that they were catholic and therefore it was not a sin to murder the heathens. They lacked perception. The best cure for a racist is to stick him in the middle of the culture of the race he dislikes, and force him to live among them and solcialize with them if he plans to survive.

Americans perceive Iraqi terrorists as mindless malicious killers. The terrorists being fought are people surrounded by dearh and war, and heavily oppressed. They feel heavy grief, and if you know how it feels to lose someone you can imagine yourself in their position. From there, they are told that America is to blame. America shares responsibility, but it is not absolute as their superiors have them to believe. Train them a little, clear their mind, and you have a killing machine ready to commit terror. When a people is oppressed enough, and has no means to fight back in unision, and in sight, they meet in secret, and find other means. Terrorism will exist as long as war exists. "You cannot win a war more than you can win an Earthquake." - Jeanette Rankin, a republican.

PS: No lonewolf, you did not invent a word.

[jonajosa]

[quote=DoomedOne]
Americans perceive Iraqi terrorists as mindless malicious killers. .[/quote]

So true. These people are nice and helpful when you need assistance. Just yesterday I taught a young girl how to play checkers. People praise us and love us. The things you see on TV are true but they usally don't cover the whole picture.

Ihave atleast 30 people a day come to our office and give us gifts and thank us for helping them. Wether its building a new school or like Isaid before, teaching children how to play a game they are very grateful.

Some however are not grateful for our assitance. And those are the people you see on TV all the time saying, "We hate America!" But the truth is based on recent polls here, 20% of the population in Bagdad is against us being here, 67% are happy we are here, The rest are glad for our help but wish us to leave.

Thats what really happens, From a perspective of someone who is actually over there.

[DoomedOne]

Now that the trouble is over the soldiers are basically a necessity. As much as I dsigaree on them going over there in the first place it's pretty much required at this point.

[minque]

[quote=jonajosa][quote=DoomedOne]
Americans perceive Iraqi terrorists as mindless malicious killers. .[/quote]

So true. These people are nice and helpful when you need assistance. Just yesterday I taught a young girl how to play checkers. People praise us and love us. The things you see on TV are true but they usally don't cover the whole picture.

Ihave atleast 30 people a day come to our office and give us gifts and thank us for helping them. Wether its building a new school or like Isaid before, teaching children how to play a game they are very grateful.

Some however are not grateful for our assitance. And those are the people you see on TV all the time saying, "We hate America!" But the truth is based on recent polls here, 20% of the population in Bagdad is against us being here, 67% are happy we are here, The rest are glad for our help but wish us to leave.

Thats what really happens, From a perspective of someone who is actually over there.[/quote]

I´m glad to hear that from the very spot because it´s quite another story on tv...even here in sweden.....i assure you

[DoomedOne]

minque sweden if one of more tolerant countries in the world, and yes good things are happening in Iraq as well as the rest of the world but news stations need to try and gives news, and frankly as happy as some people are there are still plenty of insurgients killing plenty of people. so that's the news everyone is getting, from a country as liberal as Holland to as conservative and Israel.

[minque]

oh yes i believe so.....it´s just that it worries me a bit, i just don´t like killings no matter if it´s americans or innocent iraqis.......so i think it´s very interesting to hear what jona is telling us,,,because he´s there, he sees it with his own eyes and ...well that´s credability.....for me

[Channler]

Ok, lets just get this out in the open... What you see on TV is most definatly not the whole truth or even the truth at all. Anyone here in america rember the Newsweek thing?

I have talked to numerous soldiers that have come back from Iraq. From PFC's to NCO, and 1 officer. Not 1 of them, even the ******* that is my brother (who was over in Iraq), said they had any urge to Go Kill Them Some Iraqi's!

I love it how AMERICANS get on the TV and say how bad we are, that were an evil country. I don't care if you don't support the war (after all its america and we can have our opinions) but what I absolutly hate is the lack of care these people show for our soldiers.

Ok heres something I've been thinking of for a while, and it sorta goes along with the whole Iraqi Conflict

Compare the Attitude of the Public on War from Pre Korea (The Korean War and Back) to Post Korea (After Korea until Today)

I'll elaborate if anyone is confused

[DoomedOne]

channler, I don't remember the newsweek thing, and no one has called american an evil country who lives in America. I don't think America is evil, I think it's in distress. Also, I've talked to numerous Iraqi veterans who have gone from apathetic about politicians to incredibly anti-bush upon their return. It depends on what experience you get over there. They were not raised liberals, many were raised in small rural towns. They went from a completely unbiased view to a completely left-wing view by being in the front-line. Those aren't rare cases either, that''s dozens of people that I alone have talked to.

About Korea, I never paid much attention to the Korean conflict aside from watching MASH.

[Dantrag]

Hmm..on this Iraq-amreica subject, i honestly don't think the war should have even started. Have there been weapons of mass destruction? Yes, Saddam was bad, but aren't more people dying now that he's no longer in power? (meaning, some people that support US occupation in Iraq are often killed)

However, now that we are there, we should finish the job and do it right.

anyone read All Quiet on the Western Front ? I like the idea that Muller had (I think it was muller anyways)...why don't the world leaders fight amonst themselves rather than putting their nations' people on the front lines? Or, even better yet, TALK IT OUT! OMG! SO HARD! TOO MATURE FOR US TO HANDLE!

I do support our troops. I understand that they have a hard time, and it's not their fault that they're there (this rule has quite a few exceptions)

btw, that video was pretty powerful.