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> Why the lie? Forced to be a werewolf?
mALX
post Dec 16 2011, 07:27 PM
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The official guide for Skyrim says you don't have to become a werewolf and can still complete the Companions questline. Farkas says you won't be forced into it in the game.

So why does Skor (spelling) and Aida the Lupine (spelling) force you into it? There was no way to exit the dialogue unless you choose to say "I'm Ready." No exit was showing on the bottom of the screen. The tab and load were both blocked from the ability to use them so you couldn't even back out and reload from there! And you were held in place so couldn't just walk out of the cave!!

The only way to get out of it was to agree to become one, then once out of the cave load a previous save. (Or what I did, QUIT the game to menu and then go into the load screen. I reloaded a previous save from before that second quest.


Is this a glitch or what?


(do I sound ticked? I am.)

This post has been edited by mALX: Dec 16 2011, 07:30 PM


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Fawkes
post Dec 16 2011, 11:25 PM
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QUOTE(mALX @ Dec 16 2011, 12:27 PM) *

-snip-

Yea, in another forum I read that you can say no, BUT, you need to become a werewolf in order to leave that room and advance the quest line.
So yea your pretty much forced :/

There is a cure though, make sure to get all the havgraven heads when you do that quest. Then after last quest for the companions you can cure yourself (Warning there is going to be a fight!)


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liliandra nadiar
post Dec 16 2011, 11:56 PM
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Also have another chance later if you don't take advantage or collect all the heads. Vikas (or Farkas, one of them) gives a quest to get some as well for the same reason, but he doesn't die before he can be cured.


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McBadgere
post Dec 17 2011, 06:55 AM
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The next time you talk to the Kodlak (Before he sends you to the Hagravens) there's a dialogue option with something like Purity in brackets, I never did that because I wasn't fussed about being a werewolf, but I suspect that's the one to choose if you want to learn the cure...


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Fawkes
post Dec 17 2011, 07:05 AM
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QUOTE(McBadgere @ Dec 16 2011, 11:55 PM) *

The next time you talk to the Kodlak (Before he sends you to the Hagravens) there's a dialogue option with something like Purity in brackets, I never did that because I wasn't fussed about being a werewolf, but I suspect that's the one to choose if you want to learn the cure...


Well, that quest is required if you want to advance the companions quest line biggrin.gif


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treydog
post Dec 17 2011, 12:40 PM
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@mALX- THANK YOU! I thought I was just missing something and finally checked the Wiki. (Which indicated the same thing- "Oh- you don't HAVE to- you can just go forward anyway.") Um- no, you can't. There are NO options for a different choice.

The only difference I had (on xBox) was that I was able to say "I am not ready," and leave. But it also meant no more Companions quests. It really annoys the... stuffing... out of me that there is not an alternate path. Have to wonder (because of the Guide and the Wiki) if one had been intended and then dropped to rush the game out.



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mALX
post Dec 17 2011, 03:53 PM
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Thanks for commiserating (spelling?) with me Treydog. Everyone says, "What's the big deal, you can always cure yourself at the end of the questline, blah blah..."

Well, so far there are three major quest breaking glitches on that questline that are widespread and make it so you can't finish the questline - meaning you can't get the cure.

When you say you are not ready yet, there is no reason in the world that whole questline should be closed off to you, especially since it is one of the more interesting ones.

Really fries my buns that they did that, and against their own statements about it too.

It isn't even that I would not enjoy playing a werewolf in the game - later, and of my own choice. I just don't like that you HAVE to or no more quests (after Farkas just got through telling you nothing like that would happen) - and I especially don't like being held prisoner till I give the answer they want (I was glad to hear you say that was a game glitch and not Bethesda's intention)



@ Fawkes - Er... what kind of fight? You mean when you try to cure yourself they all attack you? URK !!! If you don't want to put a spoiler up on here, can you PM me with it?

@ Everyone - thank you so much for your info, I really have to decide if I want to go back and take a chance that the questline won't glitch and stick me as a werewolf.


OH !! Also, I heard that while you are a werewolf (even if you aren't in beast form) that your spouse won't sleep with you. Is that true?


**

OH !! Just an observation. I also noticed that while you can't find a marriage partner anywhere else in the game almost (with the exception of every beggar) - that every one of these werewolves are on the marriage list after you complete the questline.

What is that all about?

This post has been edited by mALX: Dec 17 2011, 04:15 PM


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Grits
post Dec 17 2011, 04:19 PM
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This is good to know. I will approach that questline with caution. kvright.gif


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treydog
post Dec 17 2011, 05:31 PM
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Wanted to be specific on a couple of points- one gameplay and the other preferences.

I ran into this "show-stopper" with my first character, who was pre-1.2 patch. I did the first few Companions quests, including the one where the player character discovers the secret (helping one of the others- who becomes a werewolf to beat the Silver Hand hunters).

So then got the- "Come with me to the hidden locale under the Skyforge" invite. Did that- saw Aela in wolf form and was asked to joing the Circle. Said- "No thanks" and left. But- at that point I also had to effectively abandon the faction, because I could see NO other way to advance.

And that leads me to the "preference" note. I tend to RP all of my characters. There are things they will not do- or will only do under extreme duress. That includes becoming a werewolf. The idea that there is no "back-path" to solving the Companions' "curse" just strikes me as being rushed and lazy game design. That is ESPECIALLY true since they limited the number of joinable factions in the game AND since my character is pretty darned unsure about joining either the Legion OR the Stormcloaks.

Moral ambiguity can be a GOOD thing in a story or a game- but it is only good if you are given choices. And that is where this seems to break down. It would not matter so much to me if I did not find MUCH about the game to love.

End rant


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mALX
post Dec 17 2011, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE(treydog @ Dec 17 2011, 11:31 AM) *

Wanted to be specific on a couple of points- one gameplay and the other preferences.

I ran into this "show-stopper" with my first character, who was pre-1.2 patch. I did the first few Companions quests, including the one where the player character discovers the secret (helping one of the others- who becomes a werewolf to beat the Silver Hand hunters).

So then got the- "Come with me to the hidden locale under the Skyforge" invite. Did that- saw Aela in wolf form and was asked to joing the Circle. Said- "No thanks" and left. But- at that point I also had to effectively abandon the faction, because I could see NO other way to advance.

And that leads me to the "preference" note. I tend to RP all of my characters. There are things they will not do- or will only do under extreme duress. That includes becoming a werewolf. The idea that there is no "back-path" to solving the Companions' "curse" just strikes me as being rushed and lazy game design. That is ESPECIALLY true since they limited the number of joinable factions in the game AND since my character is pretty darned unsure about joining either the Legion OR the Stormcloaks.

Moral ambiguity can be a GOOD thing in a story or a game- but it is only good if you are given choices. And that is where this seems to break down. It would not matter so much to me if I did not find MUCH about the game to love.

End rant



I didn't want anyone to think I was putting down the game, just irritated to have choices taken from me. The only guilds the player can join (that I have found) have been ones I did not want my character to associate with - at least not at this stage of the game.

(other than the College of Winterhold, which I found unsatisfyingly short and over before it started).

Like you, I have also wanted to stay neutral with the Civil War issues.

Also, there is a feeling of being rushed through these factions. In joining the College, the second quest they are pinpointing you for greatness, there is no working up to it and proving yourself. I became Arch Mage in like four quests - and certainly didn't see how I was pegged for greatness that quickly or feel I earned the position of Arch Mage.

In the Companions - the first quest you are let in on their secrets, by the second one you are forced to become a werewolf.

The feeling of being rushed through anything that doesn't involve the dragons/main questline is tangible in these other factions.

I don't know if the Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild are the same way or not, but I noticed you have to join both to follow the main questline.

Where are the player's choices in this game? My only choice so far has been pushing off the main questline so I could enjoy the game and get to know Skyrim first.

I'm not trying to insult the game, but I do see flaws in the set-up when you have no choice but to join factions your character wouldn't want to join, when the ones you do want to join are rushed through.

To me, it is a bit of a roleplay killer to be forced to make choices against my will, or not be allowed the time to find immersion in a faction before completely beating the whole questline and becoming master of the faction.

When I was just exploring the game, doing my own thing and getting to know the land and the people/enemies - it was an awesome experience. As soon as I began testing out any questlines (not radiant quests, I like them a lot) - suddenly all my choices were gone and I was being rushed into the game's choices and feeling like all my choices were made for me. Do it this way or don't play this questline.

I don't think it is coincidence that the most powerful and desired shouts were hidden away in the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild factions.



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McBadgere
post Dec 17 2011, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE
I don't know if the Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild are the same way or not, but I noticed you have to join both to follow the main questline


My daughter (who's finished the DB ones and is a fair way through the TG ones) hasn't been near the MQ in her game...She doesn't want to do it either...

I know that the nearest you get to the TG in the MQ is having to go into their HQ to get to Esbern the Blade...You don't have to join...

And seriously...At most you'll use two shouts with any regularity...Unrelenting Force and Speedy...Or whatever it was called...I was as excited as anyone about getting all the shouts...But when it came down to it, I never bothered using them...They really are a wasted opportunity...Like I found much in the game...

And I agree wholeheartedly about how quickly you get to the top of the chain in each guild/faction etc...

The quest you get from the companions to cure the werewolf thing you get from Farkas...He gets sick of being a wolf, so he asks you to help him with a cure...My son got this but hasn't done it...I've no idea what happens next...But go through it all and then keep going back to Farkas till he gives you one...As it were...

This post has been edited by McBadgere: Dec 17 2011, 07:51 PM


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mALX
post Dec 17 2011, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE(McBadgere @ Dec 17 2011, 01:50 PM) *

QUOTE
I don't know if the Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild are the same way or not, but I noticed you have to join both to follow the main questline


My daughter (who's finished the DB ones and is a fair way through the TG ones) hasn't been near the MQ in her game...She doesn't want to do it either...

I know that the nearest you get to the TG in the MQ is having to go into their HQ to get to Esbern the Blade...You don't have to join...

And seriously...At most you'll use two shouts with any regularity...Unrelenting Force and Speedy...Or whatever it was called...I was as excited as anyone about getting all the shouts...But when it came down to it, I never bothered using them...They really are a wasted opportunity...Like I found much in the game...

And I agree wholeheartedly about how quickly you get to the top of the chain in each guild/faction etc...

The quest you get from the companions to cure the werewolf thing you get from Farkas...He gets sick of being a wolf, so he asks you to help him with a cure...My son got this but hasn't done it...I've no idea what happens next...But go through it all and then keep going back to Farkas till he gives you one...As it were...



If this questline wasn't so badly bugged it would be a lot easier to make the decision to go ahead. As it is (numerous threads on people that couldn't complete the questline due to various bugs in it), I plan to do it after everything else I want to do (just in case one of the bugs keeps me a werewolf the rest of the game).

This post has been edited by mALX: Dec 17 2011, 09:03 PM


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Destri Melarg
post Dec 17 2011, 10:23 PM
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Throughout the long months leading up to this game I have tried to maintain a wait and see approach to what Bethesda decided to do with Skyrim. Very often that philosophy saw me adopt the role of Bethesda apologist in threads made railing against their philosophy toward the future of the franchise. Well I have waited, Skyrim is here, and I have seen. I apologize to Helena, TK, Black Hand, or anyone else whose views toward the franchise I have lined up against. I can no longer defend what has become Bethesdaís arrogance. Telling me that I have the freedom to play the game any way I want to . . . as long as I play it the way they want me to is a positively Orwellian concept! The argument that itís okay for you to be forced into being a werewolf because you never have to actually use the power (well, except for that one time) is a hollow one. So is the argument that itís okay to be forced to join the Mages Guild as an axe swinging Orc in order to get a certain shout word. These are not errors of omission or flaws in game design (though they too do exist). These are deliberate systems of control in a game that sells itself on the freedom to play the game the way YOU want to play!

I whole-heartedly agree with mALX and trey that all the faction quests feel rushed and half-hearted. As I said via PM to mALX just the other day, it is almost like Bethesda is saying to us: ĎWhat are you doing this crap for?! Donít you know there are DRAGONS out there?!í

It feels like they jumped the gun at E3 with the release announcement, only to find 11-11-11 bearing down like a freight train (believe me when I say I know what thatís like). So they decided to perfect the dragons (and they are pretty damn cool, I have to admit) and the environmental details (which, again, are very well done) at the expense of the depth given to the faction quests. They also decided to shelve what was for me the best part of the Elder Scrolls franchise . . . interesting NPCs. Even Míaiq comes across as a zombie in this game! So, while Skyrim is indeed beautiful, it is ultimately soulless. I don't think it's a coincidence that Ken Rolston, a former employee of Bethesda and one of the lead designers of the two games, recently compared Morrowind to Moby D*** while comparing Oblivion to the movie Titanic in the latest issue of gameinformer. His point was to illustrate how 'tragically inaccessible' Morrowind was for the larger audience Bethesda was even then courting. I wonder then if that makes Skyrim Transformers?

I, for one, would have gladly dealt with moving the game back to 12-12-12 if it meant that I could have more thought out faction quests or met characters like Uncle Crassius, Divayth Fyr, Nibani Maesa, Mazoga the Orc, Savlian Matius, or Lucien LaChance.

Okay, thatís my rant. Next!


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Thomas Kaira
post Dec 27 2011, 08:27 AM
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There are so many choices this game forces you to make its not even funny.

"Be who you want to be?" Riiiight.... I think Destri summed that up pretty well.

Anyways, I am so utterly offended by the lack of roleplaying options in this "roleplaying game" for even the most basic decisions you could make... that I am going to be putting them back once the CK comes along.

I have decided to call the project "Skyrim Derailed," in reference to the term of forcing the player through a scenario where he should be presented a choice being called 'railroading.' So far, I have placed these items on the agenda:

1. All Words of Power will be accessible without needing to join any Guilds. Each Guild has a single Word that can only be obtained by joining them, which means that roleplayers will be stuck with some incomplete Shouts because they chose not to join a specific Guild. Denying full Shouts for not joining a Guild is fine, but only allowing partial completion is not.

2. Will allow for the Main Quest to be reasonably completed without needing to join the College of Winterhold. The idea is that the moment you walk through those gates, you are considered a member. So I'm going to do as Oblivion did and move the guy you need to speak to outside the gates for the duration of the needed quest so non-members can talk with him without being forced into aGuild membership they might not desire.

3. Will allow for full completion of the Companions questline without needing to become a Werewolf. This thread already covers pretty well why to do this.

4. A few transparent decisions (the Paarthurnax dilemma, for instance) will be given some weight. Instead of stalling things out by taking the opposite side that Bethesda intended, the quest will be completed and you will have to live with the consequences of your decision.

5. An obvious attempt to pad out the length of the Thieves Guild questline will be addressed. When you complete a special job for a particular hold, your quest-givers will stop assigning jobs in that hold until you have finished the Restoration project.

6. You have to partially complete the Main Quest (you must complete Dragon Rising) in order to complete the quest Message to Whiterun for the Civil War questline. This will get stopped for anyone who wishes to do only the civil war without needing to worry about dragons.

Those are the biggest offenders at this point. I am sure I will continue to get reports of pre-made choices Skyrim makes for you along the way.

Word to the wise Bethesda: without meaningful choices, you do not get to call your game an RPG. And they don't need to be of the Mass Effect moral dilemmas, either. Just letting the player be who he wants is what The Elder Scrolls does. Skyrim throws wrenches into that philosophy all over the place with several questlines depending on other questlines and even more pre-made choices where the only option is in what manner you wish to say yes.


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Black Hand
post Dec 27 2011, 10:41 AM
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Morrowind = Total immersion, rich lore, complete player freedom. NPC's that don't move, lots of generalized dialogue.

Oblivion = Broken Immersion with pop-up journal quests, hand-holding, significant dumbing down, NPC that talked....about mudcrabs. NPC's staring at a wall. Little to no Lore, in some cases outright butchering (Tsaesci are humanoid skeletons? Really?)

Skyrim = More buggy than Daggerfall, significantly watered down...everything, no attributes, no classes, no Guild ranks. Yet...more immersive than OB (IMO) return of the lore, and NPC's talk...realistically.

The way you're all feeling about Skyrim right about now...is exactly how I feel about Oblivion. Yet in spite of all it's faults...I love Morrowind. And in spite of its...significantly dumbed down aspects, and undeniable bugs and faults. I like Skyrim.

The quests in Morrowind were predetermined too. The Quests in Oblivion were predetermined with a green arrow saying "Here, Dummy!" Skyrim is like the...offspring of the two.

Maybe because I had no expectations with Skyrim, it worked out for me. In large part because the last release was a...trying to choose words carefully here...letdown....a very....well you get the idea, I didn't expect it to knock my socks off.

I am biased of course, hell, Im not even really defending Skyrim, but its second on my list of TES games I would like to play, and I've loved Werewolves since I was a kid.

Yet at the same time, it makes sense from a 'lore' perspective to say that they won't trust you to join the circle until you're one of them, on the other hand, Beth didn't even offer a choice, which is one of the things that does irk me as well.

You figure the majority of people playing this game are going to join the Fighters Guild or companions in this case, so to make lycanthropy an option is not a bad thing, but for it to be forced...why couldn't they just make it a random attack once a month on the road? God knows my fellow thieves and those wannabe assassins pester us enough!!

[/endrant]

*The preceding was merely an opinion, in many cases meant to be taken with a sense of humor, the writer reminds you that text does not convey tones or inflections, and also reminds you that above all else...it's just a game.

EDITED TO ADD: I admit that the Dramatic Brotherhood was VERY well done in Oblivion, and am in fact a total Fanboy for Lucien LaChance. That being said: They ruined everything in Skyrim in terms of the DB! The Spectral Assassin is annoying! NOT even close to fanboying that!!

As proof and tempering of tempers, may I present the greatest fanvid...ever made!....By Humans....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ldEB5DOaU

Seriously,...watch it...its like my skooma...

This post has been edited by Black Hand: Dec 27 2011, 10:50 AM


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McBadgere
post Dec 27 2011, 01:15 PM
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QUOTE
In large part because the last release was a...trying to choose words carefully here...letdown....a very....well you get the idea

LMFAO...

Love you too... tongue.gif ... biggrin.gif laugh.gif ...

Gave up on Skyrim for good...The story and lack of intersecting "So you saved Skyrim from the Dragons then...Right, go off and kill this Ice Wraith to prove your hardness..." avoiders was stupid. The world doesn't feel right to me...I can't put my finger on it...I just don't feel anything for the game...(J'Zargo and Paarthrunax aside)...

Ach, I don't know...Everyone else seems to be enjoying it except me... biggrin.gif ...Although the instant the boy got Skylanders he was off on that, and the daughter would now rather play pinball...She's bored of it too...*shrug*...I don't think they are likely considered the ultimate barometers of the game's longevity though... biggrin.gif ...


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Black Hand
post Dec 27 2011, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE(McBadgere @ Dec 27 2011, 04:15 AM) *
"So you saved Skyrim from the Dragons then...Right, go off and kill this Ice Wraith to prove your hardness..."



Hmm, that reminds me of Morrowind when I finished storyline than the Imperial Legion sent me off to kill a pair of mating netch.

"Killer of Demigods,..conquerer of Red Mountain...slayer of the common domesticated animal...grumblegrumblegrumble."


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will79
post Dec 29 2011, 04:18 PM
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QUOTE(Thomas Kaira @ Dec 27 2011, 09:27 AM) *

There are so many choices this game forces you to make its not even funny.

"Be who you want to be?" Riiiight.... I think Destri summed that up pretty well.

Anyways, I am so utterly offended by the lack of roleplaying options in this "roleplaying game" for even the most basic decisions you could make... that I am going to be putting them back once the CK comes along.

I have decided to call the project "Skyrim Derailed," in reference to the term of forcing the player through a scenario where he should be presented a choice being called 'railroading.' So far, I have placed these items on the agenda:


Kudos for undertaking this project, it is a much needed fix with the game with it's current lack of choices.

I have a special request (I signed up just to ask this) I'm not even a PC gamer so I can't get this patch. But I know people are also annoyed at being railroaded into giving their soul to Nocturnal, if you don't do that, you wont be appointed guildmaster and can't begin the restoration project.

Please find some fix for all the roleplayers who don't want to become a religious batman and just want to play as a grimy ol thief. smile.gif I see the nightingales as a completely separate storyline, and also pretty incongruous addition to the guild, seemingly just intended to give thieves some "cool" armour.
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mALX
post Dec 30 2011, 02:25 AM
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QUOTE(Black Hand @ Dec 27 2011, 04:41 AM) *


As proof and tempering of tempers, may I present the greatest fanvid...ever made!....By Humans....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ldEB5DOaU

Seriously,...watch it...its like my skooma...



Awesome Vid !!


@ Master Chef TK - WOO HOO! Go for it !!! I'll be first in line with my cursor on the DL button, lol.

This post has been edited by mALX: Dec 30 2011, 02:28 AM


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Lady Saga
post Apr 3 2012, 12:54 PM
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I'm glad I read this thread because this is something that bugged me, too. My nord fighter was doing Companions until he got to the werewolf decision part. He just didn't want to do it, and it bummed me out because I was enjoying Companions up till then.

On the other hand, those who say there are no consequences for our decisions in this game need to just shut up on this one. mellow.gif
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