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Hulk, A separate thread just because.. |
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| ghastley |
Mar 27 2014, 03:15 PM
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Councilor

Joined: 13-December 10

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Since this really has nothing to do with Orc Hearthfires, I'll start a new thread for it.
Right now, I'm just exploring the option of the character being able to change into a big green muscled Hulk creature instead of into a Werewolf, or Vampire Lord. I'm still undecided whether to make it a mod that anyone can use, or just a private thing for my own use, but the discoveries I make in the process are likely to be worth sharing.
To get there, I'm playing the before and after characters as two separate games, to sort out the meshes and outfits, and check out the viability of each configuration. At some point, I'll clone the power from the base game for the transformation. I'll need a bit of back-story for how the player gets the power (probably from Malacath, since you essentially turn into a big Orc). The Orc one will also get used to test Orc Hearthfires, as that was the original intent for her!
In Oblivion, there were limits on the size range of characters beyond which they had problems. Too small, and they couldn't swim, because all characters floated at a fixed depth, and short ones had their heads under water. Too large, and they wouldn't go through doorways. You'd also see odd visual effects when sitting, as the origin of the skeleton was a point on the ground, not the seat, so short characters would sit below the seat, and tall one would hover. Skyrim seems to have fixed most of those, but I expect to find some new ones to take their place. It's not clear what side-effects size is intended to have. In OB, taller characters with longer legs ran faster, for example, and the racial bonuses for strength went along with larger size.
Although an oversized Orc could wear a variety of clothing/armor, I'd have to make that to fit, so I'm currently thinking the Hulk aspect would be a fixed outfit (like the WW and VL) with no option to change it. It would essentially be treated like a creature skin. That may be forced on me anyway when I adapt the scripts. However, I would like the base character to find herself wearing the same torn stuff when she changes back, which is different from the WW/VL scenario. She'll have everything in her inventory to change into, but the torn stuff will need special handling. It's kind of like the jail outfit in Oblivion, which is automatically equipped when the player is jailed.
The WW and VL have constraints balanced with enhancements, and it makes sense to do the same for the Hulk, probably closely matched to the werewolf ones: no spells, extra health and stamina, carrying capacity, and maybe boosted two-handed with a weapon auto-equipped to exploit it (since that is an Orc racial bonus). The weapon may be an issue, unless it's the source of the power? Like Thor's hammer in the comics - no transform unless equipped already.
I'm thinking at present that the quest that grants the power should require a character that's biased to magic, preferably with high alteration. That would make the no-magic aspect a better contrast, and add balance to the game play for a Hulker. The alteration requirement is just to help the transformation be credible.
For release as a mod, I'd need to allow both genders, and all races. Since it only requires two Hulk models, that's not a big deal, since I'm doing half of it anyway. But it would require me to put into code the restrictions that I can impose on my character without a mod.
Some questions: Should the Hulk aspect cause an adverse reaction from the general public? Is Hulking out a crime? What trade-offs other than spells for health/stamina should there be? Should the transformation be controlled in both directions, or time out?
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Replies(20 - 38)
| ghastley |
Apr 22 2014, 03:01 PM
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Councilor

Joined: 13-December 10

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QUOTE(Grits @ Apr 21 2014, 02:46 PM)  Oh yeah.  I’m out of time today but Bannor is ready to Hulk out tomorrow! He had a hell of a time with the fight. At first the O.O. nearly killed him then walked off saying Bannor was not worth his time. Bannor healed up and went at him again. The second time NPC Lildereth (who was following) got in gear and shot O.O. while Bannor was *cough* strategically repositioning. Bannor got the dual fire kill-cam with not much red or blue left in the bars. It makes sense that a character that will benefit from hulking would have problems going toe-to-toe with a melee opponent. At minimum level he's a tough battle, and that was one reason I thought a better reward was appropriate. I may give my male Bosmer a bit of play time to see if I can find the Old Orc with him, and go find the Longhammer, or the Steel Battleaxe of Fiery Souls, which would be easier to obtain. I need to experiment with perk choices, to find out what's best for a character that only does two-handed once per day.
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| ghastley |
Apr 23 2014, 02:43 AM
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Councilor

Joined: 13-December 10

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Those bonuses should not be affected by hulking. It's not clear if the armor bonus affects Mage Armor perk, but since some actual armor doesn't, it's probably OK. Mage Armor is definitely a perk to aim for, as hulking gives you a "flesh"-equivalent that's boosted by it. I put 0.5 (with resources as .bsa) on the Nexus. - several people have reported that they can't get the transform to happen. I may have to have them try the 0.4 version. This post has been edited by ghastley: Apr 24 2014, 09:07 PM
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| Grits |
May 6 2014, 02:41 AM
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Councilor

Joined: 6-November 10
From: The Gold Coast

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Ninette clobbered Morokei in hulk form and then had to take on Ancano as her little Breton self. She did great, but she kicked herself all the way back to the dorm for not waiting a little longer to return to Winterhold. She does enjoy being green. Follower Jerric helped out with Estormo at the end of the ruin. Ninette’s hulkout ended right as he attacked.  I want to try something a little different with my elf Hulk guy so I restarted Bannor as an unarmored archer. He was originally a Destruction mage. He’ll use Alteration and Alchemy with the Lord Stone. I’m thinking that Fortify Two-Handed potions will help in hulk form if taken before hulking. Ninette was too preoccupied with college matters to get very far with Alchemy, so she never tried it. I have to see how it works out but he will probably also perk either Sneak or Block depending on if he’s stealthy or a combat archer. The second option would be a lot of fun and work well with a temperament that lends itself to hulking. I’ll probably put a lot of points into Magicka in case he turns out to be a summoner too. I could easily see that happening! Training Two-Handed was a must for Ninette. Also she found a Drainblood Battleaxe right when she really needed it. That’s what she used to cleave Morokei.  She mostly hulked against dragons. Tremendous fun!
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| Grits |
May 8 2014, 11:32 PM
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Councilor

Joined: 6-November 10
From: The Gold Coast

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Bannor 2 found the O.O. exactly where he did the last time! Now he’s ducked into Forsaken Cave to look for some trouble. Ironbind Barrow is right there too, so hopefully he’ll soon have a nice axe. This time he has a more orc-friendly hairstyle. Bosmer and Hulking.
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| ghastley |
May 9 2014, 03:13 PM
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Councilor

Joined: 13-December 10

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I took the Bosmer mage I'd created for testing (Brunor) off to confirm the problems I'd been having with Orc Hearthfires, and of course we encountered the O.O just as we were approaching the Greenspring Stronghold site. I didn't want to waste the opportunity, so we got it on with him, and discovered he's a bit of a challenge for a low-level mage. Brunor ran off towards Halted Stream Camp, summoning a Flame Atronach to take pot-shots at the pursuing Orc. The Bandits at the camp joined in the affray, sending arrows at everyone, and they all chased Brunor over to the nearby giants and mammoths, who also got involved fighting everyone else. Since Brunor had mainly been running away, they were all mad at each other rather than him, so he was able to stop and watch it all play out from the top of a rock. The O.O finally fell to a Sabre Cat who was wandering past. A bit ironic, as you always meet him with a couple of dead ones. I remembered to save the game after collecting the spell tome, which was a good thing as the game crashed when he tried to lay down the hut layout at the stronghold site. Which is why he went there in the first place, to confirm that it wasn't just a problem with Gol gro-Molag's game. I'll probably put out a 1.0 final release soon, with a couple of minor cosmetic changes, like the fix for the active effects display. I also noticed that Brunor's inventory showed the wrong icon for the tome (note one, rather than book) so that needs to be fixed. This post has been edited by ghastley: Jul 7 2015, 03:01 PM
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| ghastley |
Mar 10 2015, 01:46 PM
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Councilor

Joined: 13-December 10

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I just had Athla experience a "permanent" (I had to fix it with the console) loss of magicka after hulking. It seems that the issues I had with health during the beta stage also affect the other stats.
It's all to do with figuring out what the "normal" value is. The game lets you get the current level, but that's affected by buffs, enchantments, and leveling up, and hulking removes some of those, but not all, because it removes potentially enchanted equipment, and dispels anything you have active. I probably have to change the sequence of the process, so that all external influences are removed before determining the stats.
Since this script runs only when the transition is happening, it should be possible to fix this for existing games, once it's figured out.
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