The Last Days of the Fashion Club Options

[WellTemperedClavier]

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This post has been edited by WellTemperedClavier: Nov 13 2024, 01:01 AM

[SubRosa]

Your description of the scene with the girls clustered around Tiphanna suddenly has me thinking of a classic coterie of antebellum Southern belles all fanning themselves furiously because Mr. Darcy walked by soaking wet from swimming through the pond. I know I am mixing sources, but so what?

So Tiphanna is back. Sort of? She is speaking in quicker sentences at least. I hope the real problem is not that she picked up a magical flail from the Hyena Folk...

I can relate to Jeval's feeling of unease in the loudly wealthy Roweni home, especially when it comes to worrying about breaking something priceless. It is a nice subtle nod to their differences in class. You are keenly aware of these things when you are poor.

Ok, so those were the Dissident Priests making such a fuss at the temple, not Dagoth Ur's minions. That is a nice inclusion into the story. We hear about the dissidents in the game of course, but in the game we only see them as people who have been imprisoned, or otherwise in hiding. The game itself would not have been capable of depicting anything like the scene you described at the temple, or any sort of protest or march. It was just beyond their technology at the time. So you filling in that gap was some solid world-building.

The Nerevarine is around and has gained the backing of the Great Houses? Way to go Joan! Well, whoever is the Nerevarine in this universe. Maybe it is January of Detroit, or Blood Raven - Queen of Witches. It sounds like the main quest to Morrowind is very near its conclusion, and things are going to change dramatically, and rapidly, in Morrowind. Especially for the Tribunal Temple.

Don't hold back Blumius, tell us how you really feel about Jeval and Treads...

Yep, there it is. Tiphanna was easy to manage. He liked having her cursed. For the same reason lobotomies were so common in asylums, and then thorazine. They are so much easier to warehouse when they can't think. Now I wonder if he did it to her in the first place? Like how the Kennedy's had Rosemary lobotomized and put in an asylum.

I too, wonder how Tiphanna feels about all of this?

[Acadian]

Wow, it looks like there was something to Jeval’s theory that Tiphannia was indeed somehow cursed. Hopefully the Fashion Club is right that a bit of time is all Tiphannia really needs now to adjust to her new upgraded brain.

Tiphannia’s dad continues to be quite the piece of work, spewing invectives at everyone in sight. Little jungle elf (Buffy’s heard that one before), pet lizard, ash-creeper priests, savage lackeys, superstitious ingrates, damned provincials . . . did we leave out anyone?

And the dirtbag wanted his daughter to remain cursed so she was ‘easy to control’?!? Looks like Tiphannia’s parents rival Synda’s at being unfit to raise children.

Satheri's father is a righteous dude and this episode really highlighted the good hearts that reside in Quinn's Fashion Club.

[WellTemperedClavier]

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This post has been edited by WellTemperedClavier: Nov 13 2024, 01:01 AM

[Renee]

Hey, quick question: what is your writing/editing process? I'm just curious because is Last Days all new material? Because I seem to remember Outlanders was written and posted on that other forum in the past, but then when you posted here, you made some changes here and there. Hope I got that right.

Here's the novella I wrote this year as a companion piece to Outlanders.

Are you still writing portions of it now, though? Or is the entire novella already written? Just curious. If you're still writing, how far are you into the future with the story?

An example. Acadian and Rosa write their stories months in advance. From what I understand, they're not even publishing until many months have passed. And there are drafts, edits, re-edits, long-term comparisons, and so on. From what I understand, Mrs. Acadian would oversee all the Buffy stories before they ever got posted here. 📚

In contrast, I've always been more of a 'deadline' writer. My mom wrote and later edited for a local newspaper before she retired, and I think I picked up those genetics. With newspapers, you're always publishing the latest stories, you're always pushing for what's happening now, and that is my process. My storywriting is rarely more than a month ahead the written word here in the forum, if that! I've got three or four Laprimas written roughly, and with Joan I'm maybe two weeks behind the actual story.

The upside from my perspective is I always feel "close" to the story, I always feel the excitement of the chase, I guess. The downside is plot holes, stuff which contradicts in the long run, character development which is supremely focussed towards the end, but a little lost early on, and so on. It's harder to make long-term adjustments to a story which is being written week-to-week, you follow?

Just curious what your approach is, because I delight in the fact we've got different methods. Hmm, maybe that wasn't such a quick Q!

So Satheri's not being married just yet. In Chapter 2, it's mentioned that she has to do six rituals at the temple before she goes off to meet her husband-to-be.

Eeesh. I'd rather make my own mistakes. Anyway, where were we?

Is somebody noticing Jeval as he twists up that fabric? Seems like Quinn might be thinking you're not supposed to do that! Or is that from WellTemperedClavier's perspective? .. Or maybe just from the general perspective overall, the opinions of many in regards to how tunics should be treated?

Whoa, this is intense. Tiphannia really has been a different person all this time... lost underneath layers of *whatever* was holding her back. Yet she's still also the same, in a way. Huh. Sort of slow. But she doesn't seem like she's stoned anymore.

They're talking about the Nerevar now, yet even at this pleasant dinner discussion there are divergences. It's all so much like religious beliefs here on Earth, right? Most of us can't agree on any one thing, even within our own doctrines, sects, creeds, and so on!

But you get the occasional crackpot who decides that he’s the Nerevarine and tries to fulfill the prophecy.

Ha ha I Love that line! Anyway, I wonder who this Nerevarine-who's-gaining-acceptance could be? Do you have your own canon Nerevarine, Clav? Hmm. If so, maybe this could be who Ulnar's talking about: somebody with "staying power" in his words.

Uh oh, Blumius is here and he's MAD!!! Wow... jungle elf??? Hey, how can Jeval be from the jungle if he spends an hour a day primping before a mirror?

Wow, it sounds like Blumius was happy the daughter was cursed, right? He had 'control' over her. Whatever that means.

Oh gosh NO don't pee on the bridge... what the? Ugh. This isn't gonna end well...

I love how BIG Jeval's thinking is. He's trying to decide his future with the lizard. That's awesome. Seems a lot of us make BIG plans like this while we're young.

This post has been edited by Renee: Oct 26 2023, 07:29 PM

[SubRosa]

who’s worse? The fool, or the fool who follows the fool?
Thank you Obi-Wan.

“Uh, I could pee on it, or something,” Jeval said.
I laughed at this unsolicited response from Jeval. But now that he mentions it...

It reminds me of the Lions Led By Donkeys podcast, which once inspired an African man to piss on a Rhodesian Nazi's grave

I just hope an Ordinator does not see him, and arrest him, or worse.

This was a nice bonding experience for Jev and Tred. Maybe they will have an excellent adventure in the future?

Aaaand so much for the nice John Hughes movie interlude, and back to the ugliness of reality as Treads and Dad have it out over Dunmeri bigotry and Imperial greed. I know you are not big on podcasts. But you might want to check out Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff, it is all about people who did the kind of things that I feel Treads is about to.

[Acadian]

Be careful, Jeval. Only Nords are allowed to pee on bridges with impunity. In fact, it’s expected of them I think.

Very nice how you manage the flirting as they are on the bridge. Dreaming together of future plans. It does seem Treads is letting her hatred of slavery sabotage her future. . . or perhaps, dictate her future.

“Late again. It’s past midnight. What do I have to do to get basic self-preservation through your skull, Treads-on-Ferns?”
- - I knew this was coming after Treads and Jeval spent so much time peeing and moondreaming. Ya know Dad’s pissed when he calls you by your full name. You bring out quite a conundrum with the Treads/Dad debate. The Dunmer keep slaves and the Empire somewhat looks the other way. On the other hand, Dad is right that it would likely be much more dangerous for the beastfolk without the Empire.

My gut tells me that Treads may be heading for involvement with a smuggle slaves to freedom group. If so, I look forward to Jeval’s reaction to that. After all, the two claim to have each others back. . . .

[WellTemperedClavier]

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This post has been edited by WellTemperedClavier: Nov 13 2024, 01:01 AM

[Acadian]

Ahh, we get a good glimpse inside the retired Legionnaire. And my opinion of him continues to grow. He did the right things for the right reasons. His frustrations over some of the futility of his profession and his fervent wish that warriors could somehow fight their way into obsolescence strikes close to home. But that’s the nature of the business – to see and do messy things so others (hopefully) don’t have to.

[SubRosa]

I cannot help but compare Jeval here and his thoughts about the Empire to similar thoughts a young farm boy from Tatooine had about another Empire. It's all so far away from here...

Mr. Flowers had a good look at what happens when good people stand by and do nothing, which is all evil needs to win. I see he eventually did stop standing by, and wears the scars for it. He has some good reasons for wanting the Empire to endure. I expect he can foresee the same happening again in the near future, and Treads being a part of it, as her revolutionary zeal is taking her in that direction.

I really do like how this has moved from the Daria story to the Jeval and Treads tale. The first was obviously a witty, biting, sarcastic comedy inspired by the TV show. But this story has a life of its own, and takes itself much more seriously, given the harsh realities it dives headfirst into.

[Renee]

Sorry for questions, I just get curious. That is incredible though, Last Days was already completed before being posted here.

I can see Jeval's perspective. The Lucky Lockup seems like it's be a fun place to work, sometimes. But also kind of dangerous. And some customers are rude and annoying.

Ah, so the book they 'borrowed' DID get returned! Phew. I was worried it'd get damaged or waterlogged or something. My prediction for a Leave it to Beaver awkward outcome did not fulfill.

They have differents cups for reptilians! How clever. I wonder if "not from the kinds of drinks you get here" he's talking about hist.

Wow, he's talking about Jagar Tharn. Tapping into some early lore, there. Mister Flowers has seen the devastation which can occur if stability's not a factor. But he's also aware that there's an opposite side, as well.

I think I'd have a hard time not paying attention in Dimartini's history class. Firstly, I always got As in history, secondly, the TEACHER talks like THIS!!! 🧑‍🎓

Can't help but wonder where all of this is going, in regards to the Argonian's lecture. How does this fit into the Last Days Of The Fashion Club? Was that lecture just a distraction, a sidebar to the rest of the story? Will Jeval become a courier as he was pondering? or join the military? Guess we'll find out.

I didn't come up with a canon Nerevarine for this, though if I did they'd probably be Khajiit or Argonian

This post has been edited by Renee: Nov 2 2023, 03:46 PM

[WellTemperedClavier]

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This post has been edited by WellTemperedClavier: Nov 13 2024, 01:01 AM

[SubRosa]

Jeval is starting to sound like Anakin Skywalker. Not the one from the movies, but the actually well-portrayed one we got from the Clone Wars TV show. Just take out the bad people. How many other people do you have to kill in the process? Who decides how many of them justifies it? Shouldn't someone just do it unilaterally, because it is the right thing to do, and let democracy and ethics sort themselves out afterward? Doesn't the galaxy need someone to just do what is right to restore order?

I was going to say something last time, but decided against it because I felt like I was being too soap-boxy. So I might as well get my Thomas Paine out now then. As much as I can empathize with Mr. Flowers and his admittedly horrific experience in the Simulacrum War, I cannot find much empathy for the Empire itself, or in the justification for its existence.

Now granted the reason is because of real world empires, and how they behave, which I am admittedly projecting onto the game world here. In reality empires exist for one reason. For the conquering state to extract wealth from the conquered. That can be natural resources, or it can even be people, either in the form of slaves, or even in the form of soldiers.

For example, the British built railroads in their colonies. But those were not made for the convenience of the people living there. They were made to take the wealth extracted from the interior and send it to the coast, where it could be loaded on ships and sent to Britain. At the beginning of WW2 the British Empire was the largest single state in the world, with a bit over half a billion people. Her military was filled with colonial troops from places like India, Nepal, Africa, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, etc... Especially India. That wealth, and that manpower, made Great Britain the most powerful nation on the planet in 1939.

I think Bethesda wants us to believe that the Cyrodiilic Empire, especially that of the last of the Septims, was a kinder, gentler entity that any real world empires. But then again, they have the East Empire Trading Company in Morrowind. It has a monopoly on just about every resource unique or notable to the province, like ebony, glass, etc... Clearly it is at least inspired by the RL British and Dutch East India Companies. These again, existed solely to extract wealth from far flung places and bring it back to the centers of their empires.

But back to Mr. Flowers in particular, I am reminded that Tamriel was not always ruled by an Empire. The reason it is now is because Tiber Septim conquered all the other provinces. He did those same sorts of war crimes that Mr. Flowers witnessed in the War of the Simulacrum. The Empire would not exist without it. Nor could Tiber Septim have done it without foot soldiers like Mr. Flowers himself, or at least his analogues from that period. If I recall correctly after the Battle of Sancre Tor Tiber Septim sold all the Breton and Nord prisoners he had taken into slavery. Then when he got the Numidium he was going to use it to murder the royal families of all the neutral states in Tamriel. That was why Zurin Arctus betrayed him, in order to stop it.

So the Empire's hands are definitely not clean, and never have been. Even barring how they turn a blind eye to slavery in Morrowind because leaving that power structure in place is something they ultimately benefit from as well.

The flip side of this coin however, is that the current Empire does provide stability. IRL, the decolonization that took place after WW2 provides a clear example of that, especially in India. Most of the time the old empires like Britain deliberately kept the native population out of any form of self-rulership during their periods of empire. Then when they withdrew they just dropped it all in the laps of people who had absolutely no preparation for taking over and running a modern, industrial society. That is not because those people were infantile, or stupid. They were deliberately prevented from learning these skills by their colonial masters. Then they were just abandoned. The end result is almost always chaos and civil war, like with the Partition of India, which the British thoroughly cocked up.

But the flip side of the flip side, is that the alternative is maintaining the status quo. That just retains the same corrupt, one-sided, predatory systems of power that have always been oppressing people. Real change does not take place nicely and neatly. It's messy, and ugly, and often people completely undeserving pay terrible prices. It is why the United States exist. Why the 40 hour work week exists. Why slavery was ended (well, mostly). Etc...

We have the advantage of being able to see somewhat into Tamriel's future. So we know the cataclysm coming to Morrowind in the near future, and across the rest of the continent to one extent or another. This Empire is not going to transition slowly and methodically to de-colonization. It is going to be here one day, gone the next. In some regards it can indeed make one pine for the good old days of the Empire. OTOH, those days were really not all that good.

So what I am I saying? I don't know. I think that reality is messy and ugly. There aren't any shining knights and perfect heroes. Stability often comes at a price that is just a formalized form of brutality and oppression. While change is a democratized form of the same, since then everyone can do war crimes, not just the ancien regime that used to be in power. None of it is wonderful. I suppose the best we can try to do is make that change meaningful, so that it was somehow worth the suffering it required to come about.

For example, World War 1 and 2 did eventually lead to the European Union, which I do think is a vast improvement over the warring states period that existed in Europe for centuries before it. Now it is inconceivable for France to go to war with Germany. It is just heart-breaking that it took so much horror to get there.

Ok, off my soap-box now, I promise.

So Jevvie is out on the streets, and all the priests are saying "Totally go on worshiping the traditional way" and "Nothing to see here." We are clearly in the final days of the Tribunal Temple.

Tiphanna is dressed in.. brown? beige? An old cloak? Whoa. Things have changed a lot!

So Tiphanna is going back to Cathnoquey. I can certainly see why she would want to get away from her father. While she seems better, she does not seem entirely right as well. She still has these... pauses where she seems to have to stop to gather her thoughts. Maybe she is just choosing her words with care, because she does not want to say the wrong thing. Or maybe she is still recovering from the curse, and having to search to find the words at all. But it is still an improvement.

Well that could have gone better. But then again, as I said when I was back on my soapbox, change can be really ugly and messy. I can certainly see why Tiphanna would feel hurt about everything and lash out. Treads even warned about this. One can only hope that she can make a better future for herself in Cathnoquey.

[Acadian]

Nothing like a hot bath to help one think and try to sort out the world’s problems. A far cry from Jeval’s concerns back in the heyday of the Fashion Club where his biggest concerns were would that new hat look as great on him as Quinn promised and how to pay for it.

Probably a good idea to find out directly if Tiphannia is mad at him.

Well. . . that could have gone better. Though I sort of understand Tiphannia being upset, Jeval has the right of it, said the right things and it is too bad Tippie’s not listening. Kind of a mess all right, but not your fault Jeval. And sadly, it does seem the Fashion Club is in its last days. . . .

[WellTemperedClavier]

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This post has been edited by WellTemperedClavier: Nov 13 2024, 01:01 AM

[Acadian]

We now have a pretty good idea where Treads is getting her militant activism from. So it seems Damp wants to destroy the empire and replace it with equally cruel Argonian rule. I’m sure that’ll work out well. It’s clear that Jeval is the wisest of the bunch.

Buffy adventures in the Second Era where the Ebonhart Pact, Daggerfall Covenant and Aldmeri Dominion are all trying to slaughter each other and destroy the Empire at the same time. It is not pretty. ‘Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.’

[SubRosa]

Your remark reminds me that the Tribunal is passing from being news to being history...

So Jevvie is dashing without being too dashing. That sounds good. Time for some Scrib.

So Damp can get under your skin? That sounds ominous.

I like the contrast here of Jeval and most others finding that the rain makes it a bleak day to keep outdoor excursions to a minimum. While for Treads, the rain makes for it being a great day to be out and about!

I have keenly noticed that Quinn is fading fast into the periphery now, along with Satheri and Tiphanna. This is clearly the Jev and Tred show.

Oh boy, another Sleeper has awoken I see. He has a real Invasion of the Body Snatchers feel with that parting howl.

I appreciated Acclesia and Jeval bonding over the desire of immigrants to fit in where they go. That was one of the things I really liked about the Supergirl TV show. They emphasized the fact that she was an immigrant, and had that same need to fit in and be accepted, even though she knew she would always be an alien in more than one way (metaphorically and literally). Given that she is a superhero with uber powers, it was really good storytelling, because it showed that she still had vulnerabilities, aside from kryptonite of course.

Nice world-building with the usage of Argonian names.

So Damp-With-Dew stands as the flip side of Mr. Fern's military experience. He's not only seen, but been part of the Empire's dark side.

And it looks like Damp is looking forward to that democratization of violence that's on the horizon. Oh boy. I expect that Treads is going to go full on with him, at least at first. Given what I recall from the future Treads episode in the previous story, she won't stay all in with them. At least not after the Argonian invasion of Morrowind. It looks like Jeval is having no part of it. Which is probably for the best.

[Renee]

Ah, hist sap, thought so. That's an interesting conclusion as well: alcohol is a poison, and technically Argonians are immune to poisons.

Yeah, we were both good at History.

Eeesh, public bathing! I remember the Morgendorffers had their own bath in their own house, but even they had to share bathwater. Such things are a luxury all around. I bet the Sloans (and others who are better-off) have their own private facillities.

But I can imagine bathing would be important for Jeval. The kid wants to look good, makes sense he'd want to smell good and not walk around with his skin all sticky from old perspiration, as well.

Quinn hadn’t visited in a long time. Work kept pulling them farther apart.

Ah, there she is. I'm noticing how Quinn really isn't discussed too much in this story so far! Miss her!

And here is Tiphannia. She's motioning him to come closer. Already, that alone seems different in her behavior.

Yes, i can see that. The Fashion Club as some sort of club for weirdos. But yikes. Bad vibes between these two. Dang. Didn't see any of this coming! - But that is also what I was wondering as well, a couple of chapters ago. Everyone was concerned about poor Tiph, but nobody seemed to ask her about it. BUT, maybe this was because they thought they couldn't ask her. Like she was too demented to comprehend any possible queries.

Anyway, that was a downer episode. Let's see what happens in Chapter 10.

Hmm, you know.... DID they make fun of Tiphannia? They actually did? I don't remember this! Maybe this didn't get written up in Outlanders, though. Or maybe my memory's just that bad.

“You shall hear Lord Dagoth’s sweetness in your dreams, and the dreams will become flesh!”

Run!!! Run for your lives! Or throw a Spell of Holy Flames if you're Joan of Arkay!

Whoa my lord. Can't just call her "Treads". Yikes. A lot of racism (speciesism, I guess) in this episode. But all of this stuff actually does happen for sure. This is all the stuff which happens between the end of the Third Era and into the time of Skyrim.

This meeting is pretty awkward for poor Jeval, right? Like these lizards are telling him "get ready" when the Empire falls apart. Meanwhile, all he wants to do is fall in love, have his clubbie friends still band together like in the old days, and figure out his future. Meanwhile, everything in his social life is falling apart. But the conversation they're having certainly does portray many conversations around tea and coffee which have happened all over our world, as revolutions begin to brew.

Old-timers call Tamriel ‘the Arena’, because that’s what it’s been for all of history.

... and Arena, the first game, was only meant to be a gladitorial combat game at first, not a broader RPG with a gigantic gameworld! Just imagine if the two main early devs (Todd was their eventual tester!) stuck to their original plans!

Off-topic, but I read in some interview that when Vijay Lakshman (pretty sure it was Vijay) coined the term 'Elder Scrolls' he had no idea what the heck this actually meant at the time. Because so much of the lore hadn't been written yet.

This post has been edited by Renee: Nov 9 2023, 01:08 AM

[WellTemperedClavier]

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This post has been edited by WellTemperedClavier: Nov 13 2024, 01:02 AM

[Acadian]

Heh, after previously whining about the way Argonians are maligned, Damp wastes no time insulting Kitten-people and Soft-skins. Even Acclesia called him on his hypocrisy.

I love how the Argonians appreciate the rain and look forward to spending time in it.

Some interesting introspective pondering Jeval does over his rice wine.

Worried about his pal, Jeval trudges out into the weather to find her. And Yikes! He found her alright. Ill-equipped and outmatched, he charges in to save his pal. A saying of Buffy’s is most apropos here, “When it comes to my friends, I don’t count the cost.” I wanted to cheer Jeval for his decision to either save Treads or die in the attempt. Whew, they both survived unscathed. Treads brings up what may be a legit concern however. And, uh-oh, a Dunmer window-witness to the pair’s escape does not bode well.