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DarkHunter
Think about it, by smashing the Heart of Lorkhan, you killed the creator of the Mortal world, I read this in a book somewhere in Morrowind, so Azura getting you to do this is or isn't evil? I believe the book is in the Dissident Priests Temple...
Pisces
She is vengeful and it is quite possible she just helped you to get revenge on the Tribunal. But the justice system exacts revenge of sorts upon criminals but in most cases (well not that much) it isn't evil. But Azura is a daedra prince so her motives aren't simple.
DarkHunter
Ummm you missed the point, the entire thing that Azura was getting you to do was about smashing the Heart of Lorkhan, to the Deadra a bad Deadra (if thats possible) because he created a realm for mortals. So Azura is trying to get you to kill him, some 'good' Deadra she is, eh?
Aki
The Heart of Lorkhan wasn't destroyed. The enchantments holding it in place and enableing one to draw power from it were.

It escaped. As well, God's body parts don't act like mortal's ones..Lorkhan's the "missing God", but he's out there somewhere "alive".

Tricksters don't die easy. Especially ones that are Gods. wink.gif

I think Azura isn't the best Daedra. But in my book none of them are, really. They're all arbitary. Azura just like keeping up appearances. In the Pocket Guide (or the old one at least) the author writes a setence about each god.

But she still ain't good. She's more or less using you to tear apart the Dunmer's temple, which is a pretty big part of their life. And to get rid of would-be-gods.

She's using you to kill the Tribunal, who broke an oath sworn in her name, some wannabe God who wants to make everyone a god (Ur) AND collaspe the Dunmer temple so she can try to garner more worshipers for herself. And the whole "I helped the Nerevarine save the world" looks good for her. wink.gif
Neela
"Good" and "Evil" are very relative terms, especially to Daedra Princes.

Lorkhan is really more aligned with Mortal men and usually in the lore is diametrically opposed to the Gods of the Elves. The great thing about the lore has always been so many different ways of seeing the motivations of the Princes.

The Daedra are really about change and really don't want to see the Mundus destroyed. Even Dagon whose sphere is destruction has more to do with the changes brought about by those forces, rather than the ultimate destruction of Nirn.

Besides what would the immortal Daedra do with their eternities if they didn't have the mortal world to mess with smile.gif


Joryn
She isnt using you for anything. YOU swore an oath to do what you did, whether you know it or not. That is why you are the Nerevarine. Azura may get what she wants eventually and you may not want to get on her bad side, but she is a good daedra. Better than the nine, those guys are worthless, she actually gets results.

And Darkhunter, I reckon "smashing the heart" is a good thing. Just so mortals can no longer mess with powers they shouldnt. So Azura isnt really an evil daedra. Infact I cant remember the name of the book, but their is one written about a worshipper of Azura mentioning how Azura wants her followers love, not service.

Like it says though, it is odd how everything always ends how she wants it to, but she certainly isnt evil. Try Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon, they are proper evil.
DarkHunter
Bal Ur is good Deadra, he cures vampirism smile.gif

Anwsers to rechtorical questions

Neela: They'd waste time killing each other in Oblivion gate zones.
Joryn: Yeah, and I also threw Moon-and-Star away...
Aki: She pretty much wrecked all of the Dumner way of life, I bet the Imperials are laughing right now. Well they would if the Emporer wasn't being assassinated...
DoomedOne
The original chimer way of life was daedra worship until the tribunal came along, and azura, mephala, and I forgot who else were considered good daedra by the chimer because they helped them form their own nation. Then the tribunal came along and made themselves gods, and azura was pissed off and turned them all into dunmer, so really by finally destroying the tribunal using the nerevarine she was just tying the knot on a very old loose end.

The best way to draw a line between good and bad daedra are their relationship with mortals. Molag Bal, Mehrunes Dagon, and several others could easily be considered bad daedra because they look at mortals like play things, or inferior things, or soon-to-be-dead things. Azura, on the other hand, sees mortals as not equals, but at least amusing, an possibly empathetic.

In my opinion, Malacath and Lorkhan are the only good daedra, because they ally with mortals, even if it turns them against other gods. Malacath's alliance with mortals is rather limited, of course.
Mazelure
What I understood was that Dregoth Ur and the tribunal where using the hearts power to make themselfs gods braking the oath they made to the Nerevane. And not only that but the power of the heart corrupts others and it had to be stopped before everything went down the drain.

But here is another question I have had. I read somewhere that you could use the heart to make yourself into a god. Has anyone tried it or know more about this and if you do please inform me I would appreciate it greatly. I myself tried it but ended up destroyng the heart.

Tip- if you guys dont know this well now you do but what I found out when I went to kill Vivec (witch was fard as hell) he has a weird dwemer artifact or something and if you take it to the last surviving dwemer he tells you that is a powerful dwemer relic and if you collect some rare dwemer books and returned them to him he can repower the artifact for you witch I thought was pretty cool.

Why did I kill Vivec you ask? Well cause that mo'fo had it coming to him thats why.
jack cloudy
I assume that this artefact is the same one that Vivec gives to you if you follow the MQ. Now I don't think you can really become a true god, but uber-levelled character is possible. Now I remember something about hearing or reading that Vivec doesn't tell you the last step needed to use the heart's power for something else but mass-mayhem. The old guy probably couldn't stand the thought of competition.
Pisces
Yep, Vivec only taught you enough to disrupt the heart. But he did teach you enough for Dagoth Ur to be able to teach you the rest but Dagoth Ur was the one benefiting the most from the heart so he would betray you before rather than sharing the power because with the Nerevarine dead there would be no one to stop him; but with the Nerevarine as a god then he would be hoping like hell you won't betray him.

There is a mod or 2 which lets you join Dagoth Ur and become a god.
Mazelure
There is.... that sounds so cool... too bad I own the Xbox version only
...o well...
Aki
QUOTE(Joryn @ May 3 2006, 04:48 AM)
Azura may get what she wants eventually and you may not want to get on her bad side, but she is a good daedra. Better than the nine, those guys are worthless, she actually gets results.

*


To Quote Mark Nelson (A Bethesda Dev, Specifically "BlueDev"):

QUOTE
On Daedra as Good or Evil: As some have said, they are neither. Some are certainly more aggressive than others. Some have a greater tolerance for mortals. But, I wouldn't say that any are good or evil. Some people think of Azura as a "good" Daedra. That could end up being a very dangerous misconception in the Elder Scrolls world.


wink.gif

And Aedra get things done. They just tend to push Mortals to do more of the work themselves. Occaisonally you see one or two appear, disguised as a mortal (Like "Wulf" who was a incarnation of Tiber Septim), or throw a mortal a nice artifact (one OB quest involves a Dibellan artifact that was created by Dibella for a artist who had lost the use of his arms. It made it so the poor artist could still paint things of wonderous beauty despite his disability...).

Etc.

Aedra are kind of "Help those who help themselves" gods. They're not going to hold your hand and walk you along it. You need to stand on your own and do things yourself.

And hell, if you've played through OB MQ, you can see Aedra do get things done... wink.gif

But that's OB, and spoilers, so I won't speak any further on the subject. tongue.gif
DarkHunter
I believe i'm going to have to open a Aedra & Deadra Topic... just to discuss the various ones... The Nine Aren't all that useless by the way, the Imperial Cult give you all kinds of nice things... FAR better than that crappy ring Azura gives you for saving Morrowind... (I got a Ultimate ring from up north in Sithis, just South-West of the Dagon Fel Island...)
Khajiit Overlord Rainer
QUOTE(DarkHunter @ May 1 2006, 03:33 PM)
Think about it, by smashing the Heart of Lorkhan, you killed the creator of the Mortal world, I read this in a book somewhere in Morrowind, so Azura getting you to do this is or isn't evil? I believe the book is in the Dissident Priests Temple...
*


Rainer must be having Deja vu, because he thinks this was posted in the Lore section on the Elderscrolls Forums not too long ago. wacko.gif
DarkHunter
how interesting... No, i wasn't the same person who did that. blink.gif but that guy had the same thought i did... wow.
Toroabok
OF COURSE SHE'S EVIL!!! you do all that crap for her and you get sum stupid ring with night-eye. whoopty-friggin-doo..
Bolzmania
I have never really cared of her. Since I'm an Imperial I believe in The Nine Divines.


//Daedroth
Zalphon
Daedric Lords are complicated. She is true neutral, I think.
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