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stargate525
Ok, new thread here.

CONFIRMED ROOMS;

Different rooms for each 'category' of books

'Front' office

Offices for most people in this

A central staicase


POSSIBLE ROOMS;

A Atrium/greenhouse thing

Private reading rooms for skillbooks

Living quarters, dining halls, and other misc. living areas.

LOCATION

To yet be determined, although its getting pretty polarized for either lost in the forests, or in the middle of the city.

OTHER INFO ABOUT THE LIBRARY

We will be adding at least one secret area, although it's location and nature might only be privvy to a few.

Might have more areas than that.

Anything I missed, just post.



Do not make another thread about anything that would be put in the library. If you have an idea please post it in here.

Thanks
-Jona
vaanic~one
I am definitely all for a "hidden in middle of city" approach. the whole "in the forest" doesnt seem as magical or....special, There are already plenty of things lost in the forest, it seems less unique to put it there. I doubt there wil be many other hidden establishments in cities, so this adds to the unique-ness of putting it there.
Khaan
It could be on the moon, and you could use a dwemmer rocket to get to it. biggrin.gif
Hukai The Wandering
umm....no, although that would be immensly cool, awsome, and otherwise da bomb... biggrin.gif ...no, i dont think so how about having it's sercet entracne inside or under a guards tower or fort. but i guess with npcs walking through doors you would need a way of keeping them out of the way huh? mabye you could do what Khann sugested but put a smaller moon closer the the city and not in outer space...
Channler
..lol.. I just thought about something, this is a illegal library right? Why not put it under the imperial palace? Talk about a slap in the face

Or hey, have it in the imperial palace biggrin.gif
Hukai The Wandering
OOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes yes yes yes ye s=ye sy ey sye ys sye ey ye!


put it IIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN the imperial palace! thaqt way be ssso cooooolllllllllllllllll1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...

Be hard to get in and happy fun time!

put it hidden door in the emporer BATHROOM! :rofl:

Sinder Velvin's Note: Oi! Too many emoticons, pal.
9of9
Whoa.... We already have in the Imperial Palace: The Imperial Chambers, secret passageways, dungeons, an ancient Elven city... do you seriously think we can cram any more secret stuff into it? :shocked:

Mm.... how about a pocket dimension? Accessible through a book, perhaps? (A bit banal, I know).
Channler
[quote=9of9]Whoa.... We already have in the Imperial Palace: The Imperial Chambers, secret passageways, dungeons, and ancient Elven city... do you seriously think we can cram any more secret stuff into it? :shocked:
[/quote]

Of course, but it only adds to the irony
Stargazey
Could we have a room just for the Hitchhiker's Guide to Nirn? It's going to be BIG. Quite big. Could my office double as the portal to Oblivion?
Channler
Or maybe the place is in a alternate demension (outside the map) that is made to look like it is a sphere with grass all over it, that would be awsome
jonajosa
My vote goes for the library being outside.

Please post no more "I think it should be here and this is why" unless you just say in one sentence, "I think it should be here." No more than that. We don't need any fight over where it should go.

Since we have narrowed the question of where the library should be we need to start thinking about how the library should look in those two places. We have practicly drained the life out of all the possiblitys that the library can be if it were cramped in the city. We need to talk about ow the library should look if it were outside in a forest.

Should there be more than one building?

Should there be any parks or rest area that are a fair distance away from the library?

Should there be any paths that wind throught the woods just for people to walk on and enjoy the scenery?

Since the library would be outside we would have more room right? So could rooms in the library be bigger? We could have larger rooms for Guide to Nirn, the reading area, the records and editor rooms.

Get the idea?
Konji
Uh, maybe have a door in a really large tree?
Chumbaniya
[quote=vaanic~one]I am definitely all for a "hidden in middle of city" approach. the whole "in the forest" doesnt seem as magical or....special, There are already plenty of things lost in the forest, it seems less unique to put it there. I doubt there wil be many other hidden establishments in cities, so this adds to the unique-ness of putting it there.[/quote]

I agree with you on that one. An ancient secret library doesn't make much sense in the middle of the wilderness. Having it hidden away in a city is much better, maybe if there was something similar to the Vivec canals it could go there.
jonajosa
[quote=Konradude]Uh, maybe have a door in a really large tree?[/quote]

No. Sorta like walking along a path and seeing a building in a small clearing surrounded by woods.
KhabaLox
The library is supposed to be secret, right? If it is located in the forest/rural area, I would think it would have to be disguised. Even in a very remote area, a large building would be noticed eventually, and the Empire's representatives would come check it out. It could either be underground or magically warded so as to be invisible or resemble something else (cottage, etc.). It could resemble a small building, and yet still be large inside, correct (I've never actually created a mod, so I don't know all the restrictions).

If it is located in a city, then it would be much easier to hide a large building. It could be in the basement/catacombs of another building, or could be it's own building with some sort of front (like a Shriner's club, or the Tamriel equivalent). Only those who know the secret handshake would be allowed in, or maybe there is a public area, but you have to be a member to get into the actual library rooms. (Not sure how/if this is possible to implement).

My apologies if these are old ideas already discussed.
stargate525
executive decision on the part of the big boss guy (me biggrin.gif )

It'll be in the city, as I don't think it'll be as difficult to occupy one of the alleyways there are sure to be.

The office that acts as our front (cover) and our personal offices will be known as, *irony alert*, 'The Front Office' a small printing/bookbinding shop. Two story, so no worries as to it 'looking' too big.

here are MW CS shots of The Front Office.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/stargate525/Offices.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/stargate525/FrontOffice.jpg[/img]

Unless someone has a very convincing and overwhelmingly relevant argument against this (as in a benevolent Dictator's Veto), I think we will go with this.
Stargazey
Yay ^_^ Stargate!!


Now go post this in the Tes F'Ruum thread. Away with ye!
9of9
Doesn't look bad for a rough plan, although the only thing that strikes me immediately is that Troika's scretary won't be able to get out from behind that desk kvleft.gif (and hence starve).
Stargazey
[quote=9of9]Doesn't look bad for a rough plan, although the only thing that strikes me immediately is that Troika's scretary won't be able to get out from behind that desk kvleft.gif (and hence starve).[/quote]


Don't be silly, Troika's secretary is an acrobatic monkey, known as Paul.
Wolfie
[quote=Stargazey][quote=9of9]Doesn't look bad for a rough plan, although the only thing that strikes me immediately is that Troika's scretary won't be able to get out from behind that desk kvleft.gif (and hence starve).[/quote]


Don't be silly, Troika's secretary is an acrobatic monkey, known as Paul.[/quote]
Hey i'm not a monkey, and i ain't no secretary either biggrin.gif
Chumbaniya
The design looks good to me. I realy should actually write something for the library soon. After the exams end, and I blitz my undead mage on WoW to level 60, I promise I will write something for the library.
Channler
Well if you need a few hired hands or something don't be afraid to call... GHOST BUSTERS!!! *Starts ghost busters music*

Errr.. I mean me
9of9
Actually - a thought just came to me. Because we have fully-fledged Rad AI in the game, that means we can schedule the NPCs to have proper lives (unlike their real-life counterparts, ironically) which means they would need somewhere to eat and sleep, in the Imperial City. Well, not need (as far as I know all the Rad AI scheduling is purely optional) but it would be nice to see all the employees going off home as the Library closes for the night. But the question is - where would everyone live?
jonajosa
Very nice. But i alwasy imagined the library to be a very large building with lots of space. Space as in ground level space. No need to hide it underground.

[quote=Stargate525] executive decision on the part of the big boss guy

It'll be in the city[/quote] Thats it then. No more disscussion on where it should be.
stargate525
The 'secretary' is hardly ever at her desk, but spend a large amount of time in Troika's office.

I can easily put in apartments for us in a lower level.
Chumbaniya
[quote=9of9]Actually - a thought just came to me. Because we have fully-fledged Rad AI in the game, that means we can schedule the NPCs to have proper lives (unlike their real-life counterparts, ironically) which means they would need somewhere to eat and sleep, in the Imperial City. Well, not need (as far as I know all the Rad AI scheduling is purely optional) but it would be nice to see all the employees going off home as the Library closes for the night. But the question is - where would everyone live?[/quote]

That's a great idea! Maybe there could be other non library-employed NPCs that wander into the front office, and the library staff in the front office could be programmed only to go into the main library part when no other NPCs are there. Maybe a little complex to mod in easily, but I'm just throwing around ideas here.
9of9
Well, you could always come down to having two versions of the mod - one in the city, one in the forest if its that big of a schizm tongue.gif Then those who like it being in the city can mod it in the city, those for the forest can do it for the forest. In the end, its the content (and hundreds of books for us to clutter our shelves with, at last) that really matters.
vaanic~one
I do like that idea that you have there about the layout of Tes'fruum. Though I do hope that that the architecture is lighter in colour in the real thing.
Konji
remember thats just morrowind cs
stargate525
[quote=Konradude]remember thats just morrowind cs[/quote]
and I left the 'lights on'


JJ, I can still put it in the forest, although that makes many of our ideas moot. For example, the office front wouldn't be needed, and then how is Troika supposed to explain having a secretary? ^_^

And it increases the dificulty in hiding it, since it would have a tendancy to sprawl out a bit.
9of9
Maybe have it on a small island in the middle of Tobal Bay?
jonajosa
No its going in a city.
Hukai The Wandering
One quick thing before i go...
[quote=stargate525]The 'secretary' is hardly ever at her desk, but spend a large amount of time in Troika's office.[/quote]

*wolf whistle* Good goin' Troika!

:paperbag2:


how about adding in a small eating area or mabye a small kicthen. it would be hidden of course (why would an inconspicous library need a kitchen?) but that way the npcs could be happy fun time..
jonajosa
I think there should be some sort of eating area. It doesn't have to be big just enought to fit all the NCP workers in the library. I think the radiant AI make the game NCPs eat... so if we made NCPs with our names in the game we would have to have a place for them to eat in the library.
minque
A very nice idea....I like it very much....and maybe a kitchen as well, Id love to cook for you all...... wink.gif
Troika
[quote=Hukai The Wandering]One quick thing before i go...
[quote=stargate525]The 'secretary' is hardly ever at her desk, but spend a large amount of time in Troika's office.[/quote]

*wolf whistle* Good goin' Troika!

:paperbag2: [/quote]

HER?!?!?!?!?! Do ANY of you know me?

Anyway, before you all start getting too out of control with all this 'how many NPCs can we fit in a library' thing, just remember... aren't all of you guys meant to either be dead or flung to the far corners of Tamriel? We've written a bunch of Founders' Fates telling how the staff count of the Library was reduced to one...

Where did all these new people come from. Convince me, and you all get free bed and board at the library...
jonajosa
[quote=Troika]

You all get free bed and board at the library...[/quote]

Thanks goodness!
stargate525
[quote=Troika][quote=Hukai The Wandering]One quick thing before i go...
[quote=stargate525]The 'secretary' is hardly ever at her desk, but spend a large amount of time in Troika's office.[/quote]

*wolf whistle* Good goin' Troika!

:paperbag2: [/quote]

HER?!?!?!?!?! Do ANY of you know me?

Anyway, before you all start getting too out of control with all this 'how many NPCs can we fit in a library' thing, just remember... aren't all of you guys meant to either be dead or flung to the far corners of Tamriel? We've written a bunch of Founders' Fates telling how the staff count of the Library was reduced to one...

Where did all these new people come from. Convince me, and you all get free bed and board at the library...[/quote]
silly me, making assumptions again. are you a girl/homosexual? If you are, we can certainly have a male secretary.

And SOMEONE needs to run the office front, dont they? someone has to dust off the books, someone has to recopy them when they get damaged, dont they?
jonajosa
As he said before... There is only one person running the library.
9of9
What happens if a freak NPC happens to kill him by accident? tongue.gif We need backup staff!
jonajosa
Thats when Stargate makes an NCP of me and i take over. biggrin.gif
minque
Maybe Stargate should make an NPC of me......then well have some real action wink.gif
9of9
That would be eerie... what would you do when your character meets herself in the game?
minque
No problems...its been done already..I have the mod "Hawthorn Hall" installed and my char is an NPC there so shes met herself and killed heself as well.....(didnt save though) biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
vaanic~one
If there is only one NPC, it would be best if they were some old man or something like that, no other type of person really fits in as running a library.
stargate525
[quote=jonajosa]As he said before... There is only one person running the library.[/quote]
but the people who work at the office cover-up would have to know wouldn't they?
Slith
I had a wonderful idea. What if we made the library both in a city, and in the wilderness. Let me explain.

The library has an entrance in the city, perhaps hidden in a house, or down an alley, or not hidden at all - whatever works. This entrance could allow you to reach the library fairly quickly, without going into the woods.

However, once you're in the library you'll find every other entrance leads out into the wilderness, save the one you just came from (from the city). Maybe it should even be made unclear whether the library truly is located in the city or out in the wilds.

What I'm suggesting essentially, is the city entrance gates you over to the actual library. (Though don't make this clear. We don't want the players to know for sure where the library is located.) And then all the other doors leading out of the library will go to the wilderness.


Well, that's my idea for it anyway.


{Edit} Bah. Reading further on in the thread it appears the location has been decided already. So much for my grande idea.

By the way Stargate, I truly mean no offense, but I really dislike your design for the front office and I hope the rest of the library doesn't look like that. It's too bland and cramped. There's no feeling of wonder at the design, and it reminds me of those alphabet blocks I used to play with as a child. Except less colorful.

I don't want to sit back and say it's good just because you took some time out to work on it. I'd rather say "Wow, that looks impressive." because it truly does.

I just ask that you use some of the impressive imagination I'm sure you've got, to improve your rough draft, and turn it into something spectacular.

My personal tastes would suggest a central, circular atrium, two floors, and other wings of the library branching off from the centre. If you want to get fancy, maybe add some water, {a waterfall?} or even sculptures and such. But your the designer, so it's all up to you.

[P.S. Please don't take my criticism the wrong way.]
jonajosa
A very nice design Slith. I would vote for it. But remember that that design was made using the morrowind CS and as we both know( at least i do) that the morrowind Cs doesn't reall have much to offer when it comes to making anything look very... nice. Its all bland so far.
stargate525
[quote=Slith]I had a wonderful idea. What if we made the library both in a city, and in the wilderness. Let me explain.

The library has an entrance in the city, perhaps hidden in a house, or down an alley, or not hidden at all - whatever works. This entrance could allow you to reach the library fairly quickly, without going into the woods.

However, once you're in the library you'll find every other entrance leads out into the wilderness, save the one you just came from (from the city). Maybe it should even be made unclear whether the library truly is located in the city or out in the wilds.

What I'm suggesting essentially, is the city entrance gates you over to the actual library. (Though don't make this clear. We don't want the players to know for sure where the library is located.) And then all the other doors leading out of the library will go to the wilderness.


Well, that's my idea for it anyway.


{Edit} Bah. Reading further on in the thread it appears the location has been decided already. So much for my grande idea.

By the way Stargate, I truly mean no offense, but I really dislike your design for the front office and I hope the rest of the library doesn't look like that. It's too bland and cramped. There's no feeling of wonder at the design, and it reminds me of those alphabet blocks I used to play with as a child. Except less colorful.

I don't want to sit back and say it's good just because you took some time out to work on it. I'd rather say "Wow, that looks impressive." because it truly does.

I just ask that you use some of the impressive imagination I'm sure you've got, to improve your rough draft, and turn it into something spectacular.

My personal tastes would suggest a central, circular atrium, two floors, and other wings of the library branching off from the centre. If you want to get fancy, maybe add some water, {a waterfall?} or even sculptures and such. But your the designer, so it's all up to you.

[P.S. Please don't take my criticism the wrong way.][/quote][quote]A very nice design Slith. I would vote for it. But remember that that design was made using the morrowind CS and as we both know( at least i do) that the morrowind Cs doesn't reall have much to offer when it comes to making anything look very... nice. Its all bland so far.[/quote]

hmm. I really like that Idea, maybe make the library underground, then have a few auxillary entrances.... maybe.


ALso, about that design, it isn't the library, it's the office coverup, just supposed to be a generic print shop. I didn't bother to add anything since we wont be using it. Also, the blander the coverup area is, I am thinking that the Library will look even more impressive once you get into it. We were talking about gardens and balconys and all sorts of fun stuff. Eventually I think we may have to get some custom art in for it, but thats a bit too far down the road for right now.
vaanic~one
I was going to suggest using Pandemonial Architecture, but hey, It probably will NOT be in the game. SO there is no point in suggesting it..smile.gif
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