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Syradd
I'm not sure where to put this, but it's been really bugging me! Haha. Okay, so i might confuse you with this, but bear with me.

The mages guild recommendation questline; how come the university doesn't expect a recommendation from Kvatch?

Obviously Kvatch is unable to give one, but If you never go to Kvatch, nobody on the outside is aware of what's happening there, so therefore the university should expect a recommendation from there. So if you collect recommendations from all the available cities but AVOID Kvatch, they don't expect one. Maybe there should have been a mention of this in-game. I don't know. Lol

Okay... I'm confusing myself, but I hope you understand my point! Thoughts? Any other plot holes you guys can think of? I LOVE this game... but I think this is an interesting point. Lol
Acadian
I agree entirely. When Buffy (my mystic archer) finished the Skingrad recommendation, she continued west to get recommendations from both Kvatch and Anvil. Once she arrived at Kvatch, the only surviving guild member (Sigrid) elaborated (roleplay of course) on the obvious that the Kvatch guild would not be able to provide a recommendation. So Buffy continued on to Anvil. The game certainly doesn't preclude that kind of thinking, but it would have been nice if Sigrid actually had a brief dialogue option to support it.
ghastley
It would have made more sense if they'd left out Bruma as well. The Mages Guild Charter explains that the six schools of magic are taught at six of the cities:
Alteration in Cheydinhal,
Conjuration in Chorrol,
Destruction in Skingrad,
Illusion in Bravil,
Mysticism in Leyawiin,
Restoration in Anvil.

Alchemy isn't considered a "school of magic"; perhaps that's because there are alchemists' stores that don't seem to have any connection with the Guild, and it's already escaped their control. IIRC Acadian placed Alchemy in Kvatch for his story, as it's still something a mage needs to learn. Restoration and Conjuration are also implied to be lesser schools than the other four, but you still need recommendations from Anvil and Chorrol.

QUOTE
IV. Membership Requirements

The Guild of Mages only accepts candidates of keen intelligence and dominant will. Candidates must exhibit mastery in the great schools of magic: Destruction, Alteration, Illusion, and Mysticism. Candidates must also display practical knowledge of enchantments and alchemical processes.


That implies that Cheydinhal, Bravil, Leyawiin and Skingrad should have been all the recommendations needed, and that there would be a practical test at the University for enchanting and alchemy.

One is also left wondering if Necromancy once had a home in Bruma, before Traven banned it. Mannimarco did choose to set up shop nearby.
SubRosa
I think they left out the Kvatch guild because the devs had no way of knowing if you were going to do the Mages Guild recommendations before or after you did the Main Quest. Some people might do the entire MQ before starting the Mages Guild. Then it would be just as strange to have a Kvatch recommendation. It is just one of the difficulties that an open world presents.
Grits
Agreed. A few lines of dialog would have done the trick. But plot holes are part of what made me want to start making up my own answers (and writing them down), so I’m kind of glad they’re there.

I’ve also filled in the blanks in Jerric’s Cyrodiil with Kvatch as the center for Alchemy and Bruma as the former seat of Necromancy. Kvatch is such a great place for an alchemist, even one who is not blessed by the Atronach. tongue.gif I think the events of “A Plot Revealed” also suggest the necromancy connection, plus wouldn’t snowy Bruma be a natural for preserving the necessary spare parts? wacko.gif

In the realm of make-believe I had Sutch as the Enchanting training center with Spellmaking as a specialty reserved for an entirely made-up city, but the Sutch chapter never made it to posting. Now a couple of years later I’m glad I left the altar-assisted magic out of my version. I think made-up schools like Communication, Transportation, and Applied Magicks would be more fun.
mALX


I like the way the "Wizard's Tower" handled it; they have the Kvatch transporter, but it comes up with some printed message "For some reason this transporter appears not to be working."


Acadian
SubRosa, that is a good point about quest timing. I shouldn't imagine it would be too hard for Sigrid to have a brief 'Recommendation' topic that would change based on whether Kvatch was still under siege, Kvatch was free but the OB Crisis was ongoing, or post OB Crisis.

Grits, I fondly remember when you introduced us to terraforming magic up at the Bretonic coffee plantation! I would imagine that is a branch of the Alteration school?
mALX
QUOTE(Acadian @ Jul 26 2013, 05:18 PM) *

SubRosa, that is a good point about quest timing. I shouldn't imagine it would be too hard for Sigrid to have a brief 'Recommendation' topic that would change based on whether Kvatch was still under siege, Kvatch was free but the OB Crisis was ongoing, or post OB Crisis.

Grits, I fondly remember when you introduced us to terraforming magic up at the Bretonic coffee plantation! I would imagine that is a branch of the Alteration school?




Player: "Do you have a recommendation quest for me?"

Sigrid: "Just go to the top of that hill there, close that Oblivion gate and kill all the loose Daedra in the courtyard and behind the chapel. Retrieve the Count's ring, and I will forward a recommendation to Raminus Polus for you..."




Elisabeth Hollow
QUOTE(mALX @ Jul 26 2013, 04:37 PM) *

Player: "Do you have a recommendation quest for me?"

Sigrid: "Just go to the top of that hill there, close that Oblivion gate and kill all the loose Daedra in the courtyard and behind the chapel. Retrieve the Count's ring, and I will forward a recommendation to Raminus Polus for you..."

Player: "Ahhh...what?!"
Acadian
QUOTE(mALX @ Jul 26 2013, 02:37 PM) *
Player: "Do you have a recommendation quest for me?"

Sigrid: "Just go to the top of that hill there, close that Oblivion gate and kill all the loose Daedra in the courtyard and behind the chapel. Retrieve the Count's ring, and I will forward a recommendation to Raminus Polus for you..."


Heh, that would place Sigrid into the same irresponsible category as Jauffre: "Hey Newb with crap gear and skills, go fetch the next heir to the throne of all Tamriel. My Blades are a little too busy at the moment to be bothered with something so trivial. Oh, and beware the Jaws of Oblvion."

laugh.gif

Seriously, if Sigrid were to responsibly support a recommendation, one would hope it would be something appropriate for a new Associate, like crafting a stockpile of healing potions for the soldiers guarding against the gate.
mALX
QUOTE(Acadian @ Jul 26 2013, 05:49 PM) *

QUOTE(mALX @ Jul 26 2013, 02:37 PM) *
Player: "Do you have a recommendation quest for me?"

Sigrid: "Just go to the top of that hill there, close that Oblivion gate and kill all the loose Daedra in the courtyard and behind the chapel. Retrieve the Count's ring, and I will forward a recommendation to Raminus Polus for you..."


Heh, that would place Sigrid into the same irresponsible category as Jauffre: "Hey Newb with crap gear and skills, go fetch the next heir to the throne of all Tamriel. My Blades are a little too busy at the moment to be bothered with something so trivial. Oh, and beware the Jaws of Oblvion."

laugh.gif

Seriously, if Sigrid were to responsibly support a recommendation, one would hope it would be something appropriate for a new Associate, like crafting a stockpile of healing potions for the soldiers guarding against the gate.



Or clearing out that mine below the Kvatch encampment.



Grits
Ooo, I’d forgotten about Hope Valley’s Terramancy! And Geomancy (soul gems, magic stones, crystals, and the like). I guess that’s why we keep notes. biggrin.gif
ThatSkyrimGuy
Um...still in the very beginnings of Jerric's story here...spoiler alert! rollinglaugh.gif rollinglaugh.gif rollinglaugh.gif Just kidding of course...
ghastley
On a related subject, have you ever noticed that the Cure Disease effect on Elf Cup Cap is totally useless? (Unless you have SI, that is)

You can't combine it with any other ingredient that doesn't have Cure Disease as it's first effect, and of course, you can just eat any of them without making a potion. Shepherd's Pie is more appealing than a potion, anyway.

SI adds Hunger Tongue, Red Kelp Bladder, and Withering Moon with second or third effects of Cure Disease, but without the extension, you won't use it.

I noticed this when I was checking to see if you could make a Cure Disease potion just from mushrooms. Evergloam doesn't grow any plants that need light.
Acadian
ghastley, does it help that a master alchemist can make a potion from only one ingredient? Buffy's basic simple poisons are crafted from pure nightshade as the only ingredient, for example.

Since cure disease is a simple no magnitude effect, there isn't really an advantage to making a potion over simply eating the ingredient of course. Like many characters, Buffy simply carried mandrake root for a time. Then, as her restoration came up to speed, she learned cure spells. That way she could dump the mandrake and make room to carry higher priority stuff - like more shoes!
ghastley
QUOTE(Acadian @ Aug 1 2013, 11:28 AM) *

ghastley, does it help that a master alchemist can make a potion from only one ingredient?

No, because only the first effect is used. A Master of Alchemy would be able to make a potion from just Mandrake, but it would be heavier than the root! And from elf cup cap, they'd get a damage willpower poison.

It's not a problem, because it gives me a nice hook to start the vampire hunting quest, just an observation that Bethsoft didn't think it through again.
Callidus Thorn
I always figured that all the mages guildhalls communicated via magical means, since there's no postal service or anything, unless the Black Horse Couriers are doing that as well. So when Kvatch went to hell Oblivion, they all knew about it immediately.
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