Here is a topic for the Total War games by the Creative Assembly. I own Shogun 1, Medieval 1 & 2, and Rome 1. I never played much of Shogun 1. In fact when I first tried the demo for it many years ago when it first came out, I was go creamed by the AI. It wasn't until I tried Rome years later that I was able to get the knack of playing a TW game. I never liked Real Time Strategy games, because you can never control all of your units. But I found that by pausing constantly I was able to make it essentially a turn-based game. After that I got really good. Especially in RTW.

In fact, I created the Amazon Total War mod for RTW. When I finally got burned out on RTW and stopped updating it, other people even picked up the torch and went on with it. It was my first foray into modding games, and was very rewarding. I put Amazon Total War up on Dropbox for anyone who wants to try it out, since I don't think my old versions are still around on the web anymore. This version requires the Barbarian Invasion expansion, as it uses the BI executable to make use of new things added by it, like night battles.


Here is a map of all the regions in Rome Total War

A map of Barbarian Invasion

An Amazon Total War map

A Medieval 2 Total War map


Froggbeastegg has an excellent guide to Rome Total War and Barbarian Invasion here. There is even a link to a pdf version of it on the same page.

Froggbeastegg has another guide for MTW1


In any case, I bought Shogun 2 a few days ago. Which makes it the most recent TW game I own. So far I am liking it. Though some of the changes are taking a while to get used to. I miss having the population of every province clearly listed, and being able to change my tax rate for each individual province, and being able to replace my losses in one turn.

I can see why they got rid of a lot of these old things. By the mid-game of RTW you spend more time administering your empire than actually going around conquering. By the late game it takes forever to get through one turn because of the micro-managing required. Obviously the Creative Assembly worked on finding ways to streamline all the management overhead, which is a good thing in general.

One thing I really miss in Shogun 2 is a proper manual though. The other games all came with an in-depth manual that told you exactly what everything did, what every little symbol on the maps meant, and so forth. The manual for this game is really shallow, and doesn't explain any of the real nuts and bolts of the interface. Some things I have figured out on my own, some I had to do forum searches to find out. Playing the past TW games helps of course. But there are changes with every game, and Shogun 2 is several generations ahead of my last TW experience with M2TW.

On the plus side, the graphics are incredible compared to RTW or M2TW, and it runs flawless even on Ultra settings. It is really nice to finally be able to fight out my sea battles on the tactical map as well. I am having a lot of fun with the Japanese setting too. I stared a Shimazu campaign, but gave up after a day when I got over-extended. I started again two days ago, and have concentrated on my economy first, and conquering second. Now I am the sole ruler of Kyushu. The latter half of the conquest was really difficult because my main rivals - the Otomo - were Christian. That make keeping order in every province I took from them a struggle. I have been knocking down all the Christian buildings, and construction Buddhist temples in their places, recruiting monks, and even a secret policeman (metsuke) to keep a lid on things.

Right now I am taking a breather to rebuild my army's losses and getting my economy back on track after the rebuilding. I have a ninja out scouting my neighbors to see who I should strike next. There is a land bridge to Honshu which I could take next. That would put me into the lands of the Ouchi clan, and the Amako after them. However, my ninja discovered an army of the Chosokabe clan that crossed over from their island of Shikoku into Honshu and took one of the Ouchi's cities. So those two clans are now at war. I am thinking this might be an excellent time to invade Shikoku and go after the Chosokabe homeland, They will have to divide their attention between islands and myself and the Ouchi. The only problem is that the Chosokabe have a powerful fleet. But one of the provinces I took from the Otomo has a pirate lair, which gives a +3 to experience to all ships recruited there. So I think I will be building a pirate fleet...

I even got tempted to fire up Shogun 1 and try it again. But it won't run on my Windows 7 computer. Still, I might try putting it on my old Windows XP box.

One of my Kobaya - the smallest ship in the Samurai arsenal

A medium Bune (which is technically a Seki-Bune) probably the workhorse of a Japanese fleet

A trading ship

My Seki Bune grapples a Wako (pirate) trading ship

Great plan!

Banzai!

My Katana Samurai (in green) battle Otomo clan Yari Ashigaru (peasant spearmen)

Slaughtering an Otomo general

Scaling the walls of a fortress

Cool pix!

I especially like the 'My Katana Samauri (in green)....' shot. The pitched battle in a field of wildflowers is so incongruously beautiful. The icing on the cake is the horse near the left side of the pic that is so wisely running away!

I am still continuing with my Shimazu campaign. Before I could decide between attacking the Ouchi or Chosokabe, the decision was made for me. The Amako clan destroyed the Ouchi and then declared war on me. So I moved my army north from the Bungo Straits (run silent, run deep!) up to Bizu, and met the Amako army as they tried to invade my territory. I sent them packing, and invaded Honshu. The Amako have been building a lot of ships, because they spent about 10 turns coming at my trade routes with fleet after fleet. I was barely able to destroy them as they kept coming. However, one new feature I like about Shogun 2 is that you can capture enemy vessels. They join your own fleet afterward. Thanks to that I have doubled the size of my own fleet with ships I took from the Amako, and from the Wako (pirates).

Now I have the Amako on the ropes. My land army is slicing into their territory along the coast of the Japan Sea. In the meantime I have blockaded their ports, and haven't seen an Amako ship for several turns. My ninja show their cities along the Inland Sea to be very lightly garrisoned. Easy pickings if I can put together a second, small army to go down there. I don't want to divert my main army from the Japan Sea coast because another ninja glimpsed a large Amako army somewhere deeper in their territory along that coast. So I know there is a big fight still waiting for me there.

Perhaps even most ironic, the Chosokabe came to me with the offer of an alliance. They are at war with the Amako as well. The moment we joined forces, one of their fleets joined one of mine to destroy a force of Wako that were wreaking havoc with my trade fleets. Now there is a Chosokabe fleet in the Japan Sea, covering the flank of my main army there.


Some more observations on the changes in Shogun 2: One thing I like is there are no more city battles. There are still plenty of sieges, but instead of attacking cities, you are attacking purely military castles. That means none of the narrow streets that are such a pain the rear to maneuver 200+ man units through. I also like that Shogun 2 virtually removes the need to fill your cities with Peasants or other cheap troops to help maintain order. The core building of each castle is the fort, basically the same as the palace building in RTW. It has a Repression factor that maintains order throughout the province. The bigger the fort, the larger the bonus. Likewise, each fort automatically spawns a defensive force if your castle is attacked. Again, the larger the fort, the more troops are spawned, and the better they are. It removes a lot of the overhead involved in managing your empire.

When you lay siege to a castle, you don't have to wait while you build siege engines like rams, ladders, and siege towers before you can assault it. You can immediately attack. This is good an bad. As an attacker I like it, because I don't have to waste time. All of your infantry can scale walls without building ladders, and all of your infantry units can burn down gatehouses without any special equipment. So you can go right in. But as a defender I don't like it. In RTW defending was easy, because I always had a turn or two that I could wait for reinforcements from outside the city to arrive and help break the siege in a sally. Now enemy armies come out of nowhere and are climbing the walls without any time to shift troops around my empire to respond to them. Thankfully I still have those auto-spawned units thanks to the fort in each castle.

One thing I still find confusing is the lack of population figures or clearly defined city sizes like we had in the previous games. The level of your fort basically determines the size of your castle/settlement. Each time you level up your fort, it opens up a new building you can create in your castle. But it never says anywhere that you have a Minor City, or a Large City, or a Huge City, like in RTW. All you can do to gauge that is to look at how big your fort is. But I cannot remember which name is which size fort.

Another change I don't think I like is that you are limited in how many buildings you can construct in each province. Again, the size of your fort determines how many you can make. Where in RTW you could build everything, so long as you had the time and money. Thankfully each province's buildings are divided into castle and countryside. The size of your fort only determines how many buildings you can construct in your castle. In the countryside you have a standard set of things you always build in every province, like farms and roads, and those don't count toward your building limit. So it means that you have to specialize your cities concerning what sort of military facilities they are going to have. Some units require two different buildings to recruit them. For example Katana Cavalry require stables and a sword school. One city might be a sword producer, one for cavalry, one for Buddhist monks, etc...



Acadian: That was a smart horse! I would run away from all those blood-thristy head-hunters too

Shogun 2 is definitely the prettiest Total War game I have played so far. In the spring you see pink cherry blossom petals floating in the breeze, and even the pink cherry trees on the strategic map. It helps you get into the mind of a man who would write the following before going to his death:

“If only we might fall. Like cherry blossoms in the spring — So pure and radiant !”


Naval battle

This is a pretty place

Get ready to frighten those children

Storming the fortress

My No-Dachi swordsmen cut down the last of the defenders

Thanks for sharing! I’m glad you’re enjoying Shogun 2. I have played a few what I would call real time or turn-based strategy games where you build up an economy so you can have a war machine so in the end there can be only one. While I have enjoyed them, I’ve gravitated to focusing on one protagonist instead of big armies and empires. As I said though, I’m so glad you’re having fun with this!

Your pix are great and nicely showcase the game. Great action shots and you really show us the large scale involved on land or sea. I think the icing on the cake is the strong asian theme that is both captivating and exotic.

I am still continuing on with my Shimazu campaign. After crushing Clan Amako with the help of Clan Chosokabe, I spent a while building up my forces. Then in true Sengoku Jidai fashion I betrayed the Chosokabe and attacked them from all sides. I took half their provinces in one turn.

Turns out doing that wasn't good, because breaking an alliance gives you a big penalty in diplomatic relations with all the other clans. Worse, taking those territories put me close to my victory conditions. I discovered that automatically triggers an event called Realm Divide. The Ashikaga Shogunate - now fearful of your power - goes to war with you, and along with them every other clan. So in one turn I was at war with all of Japan.

The worst part was the impact it had on my finances. I nearly went bankrupt in a few turns, because I had gotten so used to the extra money I had been making on trade with the other clans. Now the only trade partners I have are with outsiders, like the Annamese, Chinese, and Nanban (Portugese). I had to disband a lot of my navy to keep my treasury from running out, and halted all new building projects.

Then came the storm of every other clan attacking me. First it was with fleets. There has been a constant avalanche of enemy fleets coming into my territory and blockading my ports or trade links to the outside world. Thankfully I have gotten pretty good at the naval battles, so I have been able to destroy them all as the come. I often can capture half or more of each enemy fleet. Though I cannot afford the upkeep on so many ships, so I scuttle the ones that are badly damaged.

Next came the armies invading me, and even worse enemy agents. I lost one border province to an invading army, and lost three more to rebellions caused by enemy agents. At the same time enemy ninja have been damaging buildings in all my eastern provinces, and wounded my best general (who was magically whisked away to my capital province, until he healed and was finally made available to me, on the other side of the map!).

But I put all the rebellions down, and retook the lost territories. From my eastern-most province Harima I even made a punitive invasion of the Hojo lands. They had previously sent two armies from Osaka to attack my castle in Harima, and I crushed them both. Afterward I advanced on Osaka, took it, and looted it. Then I destroyed all the buildings, and marched back to Harima. With no troops there, the province rebelled from me and a whole big army of rebels spawned there. Now if the Hojo want to take another crack at me, they will have to go through those rebels first. That is an old trick I learned in RTW to create a buffer state.

There was one down-side. Looting the city caused unrest in all of my cities, as it caused a loss of honor for my daimyo. I had no idea that would happen, so won't be doing it again. I should have just peacefully occupied it, destroyed all the buildings, then abandoned it. Oh well.

Which brings me to another of the differences between Shogun 2 and the previous Total War games I have played. In RTW you had three options when you took a city: Occupy, Enslave, or Sack. Occupying causes no damage and nets you a very tiny amount of loot. Enslaving cuts the city's population in half, as they are sold into slavery (which in turn creates a new trade resource in the province of slaves). Finally Sacking kills about 90% of the population and nets you a ton of money. In RTW it is really good for big cities that are otherwise hard to control. It brings that population down to something you can manage.

But in Shogun 2 you have two options: Occupy and Loot. Occupy is the same as in RTW. Loot gets you more money when you take the province, but you get that hit to your Daimyo's honor, which causes a -1 unrest in all of your other provinces. Which in my opinion is not worth the one time boost of a few thousand koku.

Back to my campaign, I crossed the inland sea to the island of Shikoku, and have destroyed the Chosokabe clan. Now I am on my way to destroying the Miyoshi clan, which rules the last 3 provinces on that island. After that, I think I will be ready to make my final push for Kyoto, and the Shogunate.

Empress SubRosa. In the end there can be only one.

Last night I continued on with the conquest of Shikoku. My army holding Harima boarded ships to help out, sailed over, and took one city. Then I saw an army of the Satomi clan come into view near Harima, which I left totally undefended (it is next to the province that I let rebel, whose rebel army I am hoping will keep out invaders for a while. Well that while was up. I loaded the army back up on boats and got back to Harima just in time to beat off an attack. Advancing to the border, I found that Clan Satomi has taken that rebel province.

Back on Shikoku, my other army there advanced upon the last stronghold of the Miyoshi clan. Only to find it filled to the brim with a much larger army. So I retreated to a nearby bridge. The Miyoshi obliged me by coming out from their fortress and attacking me on the bridge. That gave me my first Shogun 2 bridge battle. It was a little harder than the ones in RTW, but only a little. Which is to say I utterly slaughtered the Miyoshi. Taking their final city was a pushover after that. Now Shikoku is mine as well.

I took a look at my victory conditions, and I have taken 26 provinces, when I only need 25. But one of those has to be Kyoto. So it is time for my final push. I intend to just bypass the Satomi in Osaka and go straight to Kyoto. My guess is that once I take it, they and everyone else will come after me there. I gather will have to hold it for four turns.

Just to make things more exciting, an enemy fleet turned up way back in Kyushu, and landed an enemy army! I forget whose clan they are. So now I am scrambling to raise an army of ashigaru that deep in my rear (I am going with them because they are cheap and only need 1 turn to recruit each unit). In the meantime I have loaded up my army from Shikoku onto boats, and am ready to ferry them back to Kyushu. But it will be several turns before they can get there.


Gimmie The Prize!

A nice country house

My army in Shikoku was attacked at a bridge

Up close...

...and personal

Crossing downstream

That bridge battle looks pretty intense!

Shogun 2 looks and sounds fantastic. Not sure my laptop could run it, but I might try it some time.

I was playing a bit of Shogun 1 the other day. Had lots of fun training Geishas and sending them to assassinate everyone in Japan. Geishas of course can't fail their missions, and keep trying every turn until the target is dead.

All my Daimyo and his army had to do was follow the trail of bodies the Geishas left behind and mop up any resistance. I defeated all other Daimyos quite early on, and apart from a brief appearance of one of their long lost sons I spent most of the campaign fighting bandits.

I've never played any other TW games, but it's always something I've been interested in.

Wow, great actions shots! Curious that the larger castle force would sortie out to fight on a bridge - but to your advantage clearly.

I was able to beat off the first sea borne assault upon my territory with nothing but a general and two auto-generated castle units belonging to the castle I was defending. The next turn I brought in more quickly raised troops from all around to exterminate what was left of the invaders. But that was only the first invasion. A few turns later the Takeda clan came ashore in another part of the realm. But once more my scratch forces were able to drive them off and later destroy them.

In the east I found I could not bypass Osaka. Unlike the previous games, cities and armies all have a zone of control around them, and moving into that zone stops your movement, leaving your only options to attack them, or give up the rest of your movement. So I stormed Osaka. Sadly the losses took a few turns to recover from. That left it too late in the year to go on to Kyoto.

One difference between Shogun 2 and the other TW games I have played is that it has four turns per game year. At least the official games. I did play some RTW mods that had 4 turns per year. Basically each turn is a one season. Winter is a bad season to campaign in, as any troops in enemy held territory take losses from attrition. So that encourages you to plan your invasions around the seasons.

So I had to wait in Osaka until the year ended and next spring rolled around. That gave my many enemies more opportunities to come at me. In the form of that second amphibious invasion I mentioned above, and more attacks on my land forces along the western coast of Honshu. Not to mention the never-ending waterfall of enemy fleets attacking my trade routes and ports. Nagasaki gets blockaded every single turn, even though I sink the attacking fleets every time.

Now I think I am finally ready to go for Kyoto.



hazmick: I love RTW 1. Of all the TW games I have played, it is definitely my favorite, thanks to the rules, the settings, and the ease of modding it (everything is in text files).

I have not been able to recruit any Geisha in Shogun 2 yet. I am not sure what you need, but I do know they are a really high tier agent. I understand that their starting assassination skill is the same as the maximum a ninja can build theirs up to. And they only get better from there! I would love to send one on a killing spree throughout Japan.


Acadian: The AI is not always the brightest in these games. Well, in any game. That said, this is the most challenging and difficult TW game I have ever played. The AI can crush you in this game if you are not careful, and don't plan your decisions out in advance.


The 300 Samurai have seen off the first amphibious invasion of Shimazu territory

The next turn reinforcements took care of the remnants of the invaders

in the east, my armies are poised to drive upon Kyoto

My ninja is busy murdering the Shogun's family

Looks like General SubRosa is relentlessly sweeping across all of Japan! The game looks pretty fun - and challenging!

Acadian: Bring out the brooms, Japan has been swept!


I march on Kyoto in the winter. This vintner stands in the way.

The Ashikaga Shogunate's army meets mine

The lines come together

Facing the enemy general

My samurai sweep their flanks

Now the way to Kyoto is open. It still has a substantial garrison however (all the bars on the flag over it)

Assaulting Kyoto's castle

The city is mine!

Four turns later, I am proclaimed Shogun by the Emperor!

Triumphant

A legacy...

... that lasts the ages


That finishes my Shimazu campaign. I don't think I am going to start another one just yet. It was becoming a grind toward the end. I think the Realm Divide was a big cause of that, with its endless tidal wave of enemy naval and land attacks. I am going to look for mods that disable it, or at least reduce its effects, before I try another campaign.

OTOH, they did remove a lot of the overhead and minutia of city management to make the campaign go smoother. That was really nice. Shogun 2 is also the most difficult and challenging Total War game I have ever played. Even on Normal setting, it was hard! Granted, some of that was because it was my first time figuring everything out. But I can see the game is just plain more difficult than the other ones.

One thing I noticed quickly is that Generals are no longer superheros like they are in RTW. I have mixed feelings about that. I love my General units in RTW. They are the best cavalry you have in the early game, and even in the late game are among the toughest units on the battlefield. I tended to lean on them a lot to win my battles.

But in Shogun 2, you do not want to throw your Generals into the meatgrinder unless you have a lot of strong units with them. Instead you have to hold them back out of the fighting and just concentrate on using their Inspire and Rally powers. That makes the game a lot more challenging.

Likewise, I found that cavalry was less potent in Shogun 2 than the other games as well. One reason is that the cavalry units are smaller in size. A Light Cavalry unit is 60 men, and a Heavy 80 men. While the Samurai infantry are 160 men a unit, and Ashigaru 200. Back in RTW the infantry were the same sizes, but all cavalry were 108 strong. So they were a lot more durable than they are in Shogun.

I found that the No-Dachi Samurai help make up for the weaker cavalry. At first I was very unimpressed with them. They have these giant two-handed swords, but do the exact same damage as the standard Katana Samurai. Worse, they have lower defense and armor. What they do have is a massive charge bonus, and once you research Banzai they get a bonus to their speed and other stats. So I would make my front line of either Katana Samurai and/or Naginata Samurai, and held my No-Dachi's back in my second or third line reserves. Once the lines meet and get 'stuck in', I bring the No-Dachi's forward and flank the enemy line. Then I hit banzai and charge in. If the enemy has reserves the No-Dachi shred them. Otherwise they roll up the enemy line and shatter it.

The downside is that they are still infantry, and so still slower than horses. This matters when it comes to chasing down routing enemy troops. The No-Dachi might catch a few that are running away. But most escape. There is no replacement for real cavalry when it comes to pursuit.

'Shogun SubRosa' has a nice ring to it

That assault on Kyoto looked pretty fun, and now your troops can keep warm in winter thanks to the smouldering ruins of the city's defenses

Naval battles sound like a bit of a chore. I think I prefer land-based shogun shenanigans.

Interesting points about the No-Dachi too. I'd also have assumed that anyone wielding such large weapons would be quite fearsome in combat, even compared to 'regular' Samurai, but it seems odd to have them as a more 'speedy' unit.

Congratulations to Shogun SubRosa! Thanks for sharing your campaign with us along with your observations of Shogun II.

I remain impressed with the scale of the game and its setting.

'Facing the enemy general' is a fabulous shot. Not only does it have horses and some up close action but, as you've done before with flowers, here it is the beautiful sun that provides the incongruity.

Last through the ages?!? By Azura, it looks like SubRosa City is still faring well after five centuries!

I posted about the start of a new Total War: Attila campaign in the misc. games thread before I recalled that this thread existed.

I started a campaign as the Western Roman Empire, which is the toughest faction to play as since they start with the deck stacked quite high against them. They have a huge amount of land, but very few armies to protect it. On top of that they have massive food shortages, widespread civil unrest, and very few allies.

I didn't even consider trying to hold most of the territories, and retreated from all provinces except Italia, Magna Graecia, Venetia, Liguria and Britannia Superior with a scorched earth policy that gave me a pretty good buffer against the barbarian hordes keen on sacking Rome. I then broke off ties with the Eastern Roman Empire, since that alliance wasn't beneficial (I'm still trading with them, but that's as friendly as I'd like to get). I removed all religious buildings from my lands and replaced them with farms, and split the remaining city buildings between defence and sanitation.

The lands I abandoned around Carthage and the Sahara were quickly claimed by the Garamantians, while Britannia Inferior was claimed by the Ebdanians, who were quick to form an alliance with me against the Picts that were pressing from the north. The rest of my land is slowly being claimed by various factions, with Gaul rising as the main power. EDIT: As of last night, the Gauls have been completely obliterated by the combined might of various barbarians.

I had a brief scare when two hordes of Ostrogoths arrived on my doorstep, but they were convinced to move on after several impressive displays of Roman defense. The Visigoths also payed us a visit, and were swiftly destroyed by my first and third legions. Currently the only faction that refuses peace is the Geats to the far north, but they're not much of a threat at the moment.

My current plan is either to push north and form a corridor to Britannia, or to reclaim Carthage to the south and take the African coast. The Britannia plan is risky but rewarding, while the Africa plan is easier but may lead to strained relations with the Eastern Romans who also want that area. I also need to send some agents out into the world and see what's going on elsewhere, and to see where the Huns are hiding.

I have a mod that makes Attila's huns a lot weaker, since in the base game they are ridiculously strong (I know that's the point, but it makes every campaign a waiting game to see when the huns arrive). The White Huns faction isn't affected though, so they could be a problem in the future.

Man this game series sounds awesome! Reading about your Atilla adventure has really piqued Khajiit's interest and reading SubRosa's Shogun conquest stoked it more! Being that Khajiit has never played the series before, would you folks recommend starting with Rome: Total War (can get it now for just $10) or just diving into any of the titles? Looks Atilla is the newest title?

Honestly just go with whichever title you like the sound of, they're all much the same (Just different settings, obviously).

Total War: Warhammer is the most recent TW game, but Attila is the most recent historical title. This obviously means that Attila is more advanced than some of the older games, but that's not to say the old stuff isn't a lot of fun.

Heh, Khajiit went ahead with R:TW because he liked the sound of $10!

Was doing the tutorial in Italy and found it a lot of fun. Still learning the ropes though. Went to take a town called Bovanium (or something like that), and discovered that this one missed how you consolidate armies into one force because we took like 10 separate armies and only a few of them were in the battle and even then they were scattered all over the battlefield. We promptly quit that game and will start over tonight after work.

Ooh, also Gaul offered us a ceasefire and we were able to extort 1000 denarii from them for the deal!

I gotta agree, these games do sound interesting. I think I might have to pick one of the old ones up sooner or later...

RTW 1 is a fantastic game! I still play it even after all these years. It is also very easy to mod. It is where I began modding games in fact.

I heard bad things about RTW 2, so I never tried it. The time frames of Empire and Napoleon TW just don't do much for me, so I never bothered with them. Shogun 2 was good. It is the most recent TW game I have played.

So how is Atilla hazmick? I have kind of hemmed and hawed over it. I already have RTW 1 with Barbarian Invasion, and it just seems like a rehash of BI. I am not really sure it is worth buying a new game when I could just play BI instead. Are there enough improvements in the gameplay and new things to make it worth the while?

Is all the religious stuff still a part of Atilla? It always annoyed me, as having to assimilate populations slowed down my conquesting.

I really like Attila, it's got a lot of depth compared to other TW games, and the battles themselves are better than they've ever been. Religion is still a feature, but it's not too much of an obstacle when conquering (at least in my experience). Other than that it still has all the other features - naval battles, politics, family etc.

I haven't played the BI expansion, and it's been about 10 years since I last played RTW so it's hard to compare the two. You might be able to find some Attila gameplay videos on youtube, but I'd definitely say it's worth a look. Not sure how much it's going for on Steam these days.

Atilla is $44 and some change on Steam... for now.

How easy is it to mod? Creating new units, things like that?

Not 100% sure on making mods, but I believe the assembly kit it uses is similar to that of previous Total War games. Lets you change database entries, textures, models, maps etc.

Update on today's Western Roman Empire:

The day started on a sad note, with the death of the Ebdanian high king, who was our ally. His son (who is married to my Emperor's niece) then took the throne, and wasted no time starting wars with the Picts, Geats, Jutes, and Danes. They all then decided to declare war on me in return, so I was forced to abandon my alliance with the Ebdanians and spend way more time than I'd like convincing the Picts and Northerners to agree to peace.

At the same time, my 4th Legion moved south to attack Carthago and the surrounding towns in the African province. Poor Carthago was all but ruined when I arrived, after changing hands a few times before the Garamantians took it. I swiftly claimed the region and began the long and costly repairs process, before reinforcing the area with the newly formed 7th and 8th Legions.

The 7th moved to attack the neighbouring province of Tripolitana, while the 8th headed south to claim the Sahara. I was expecting a weak force of Garamantians at every town, but instead each town had been claimed by individual groups who had all their units stationed there for defense. Pretty tough work, especially since my soldiers suffer attrition when travelling in the desert.

In political news, I adopted one of my generals into the family. My Emperor is only 26 years old, but has already lost 5 children (none of whom reached 5 years old). Kind of odd to adopt someone your own age as your son, but by doing so I can assign this general to be a retainer for the Emperor's brother (our best general) and learn from him.

I also changed my faction's religion from the unpopular Latin Christianity to Roman Paganism. Paganism is quite popular with northern factions, who I spend a lot more time dealing with. I want to make an alliance with the Danes, who have quite a strong position up north, before taking some land in Belgica to start linking my main forces in Italia with my Britannian outpost. I still have to finish my Africa conquest though, which should take quite a while.

Give'em hell, Haz! Roma invicta!

Really starting to get a better feel for the game. Figured out what Khajiit was doing wrong when moving units around and we won several battles before calling it quits early this morning around 3am. About to go play some more now.

Disaster! We went to take a city in the heel of the Italian boot (forget the name) and when we got there we discovered it was a city with a stone wall. Khajiit must not have been paying close attention because he didn't build any siege equipment other than the catapult things he already had. Well, making use of the resources at hand, we set the catapults to attack the gate while the army stayed out of range of the archers on the wall. We didn't seem to be getting anywhere with the gate so Khajiit had the catapults focus on the wall. We were making a hole in the wall when all of a sudden, the battle ended. In a defeat for my forces! WTF?! We lost no men and one (or more) of their buildings was on fire!

We missed the turn limit for taking that city and therefore got no bonus from the senate but we were determined to take that town. On the second try, we built a siege tower and sent it against the wall. They burned it down. Meanwhile my catapults were pounding away at the wall and eventually made a breach. Khajiit then sent every body we had into the breach. They were no match for the flood of Julii that came pouring in, but in taking the town we lost too many men. Another restart is on the horizon.

hazmick: Hail Caesar!

It sounds like the diplomacy side of the game is as poorly done as ever. In RTW1 your allies were guaranteed to attack your sooner or later. Usually sooner. Trade agreements were useful as it generates more money for you. But other than that, everyone is your enemy, whether they claim to be your friend or not.


ChesireKhajiit: For sieges, I prefer using Onagers (that might be the catapult you are referring to). But you cannot get them until the later game, as they are high-tier unit. I think there is a Ballista unit as well, but it does not do anywhere near enough damage to walls as the Onagers do.

My tried and true tactic is use two Onagers for siege assaults. What you want to do is look for a street with a clear line from the walls to the town square, without going past towers. Or past as few towers as possible. Then set up your Onagers opposite that spot. Have them knock a hole in the wall there, and then knock out the towers to either side of the breach. That allows you not only get into the city, but also gives you a direct path to the square. Ideally without being under fire by enemy towers along the way.

You can also add some trickery to your attack by placing the rest of your army opposite a different city wall. The AI defenders will concentrate most of their army to oppose them, and leave the wall facing your Onagers bare. Then when the battle starts, and your Onagers are knocking down the wall, you have your entire army march around the city to the Onagers. They should be in position in time to attack by the time the breach has been made and the adjacent enemy towers silenced. Just be careful not to walk into range of the enemy towers along the way.

Without Onagers your options are more limited. Against wooden walls all you need is a ram or two. Or elephants. Just be careful to stay in the open lanes between the enemy tower's fields of fire. Against stone walls I found siege towers are the best option. In this case you want to take an enemy gatehouse, again with the clearest line of advance to the town square. Use multiple towers to either side of the gate, and use your best shock infantry in them. If you have to advance along the back of the walls before you can get to the square, send more siege towers against the wall along the route, and take all the towers. That way you won't be shot at as you advance deeper into the city.

You can combine a mine with siege towers as well. Use the mine on an opportune stretch of wall, and knock it down. At the same time use your siege towers to take the towers to either side. That essentially does the same thing as using Onagers, just with a higher butcher's bill.

If you have a really well defended city, don't be afraid to simply blockade them and wait them out. If you are lucky, they might sally out. Then you can fight them in the open. Just don't get too near the walls and towers. But even if they don't sally, you will eventually starve them out.

Pretty much, though it does depend on what traits the enemy leaders have. The Ebdanians, for example, had the 'likes strong empires' trait so they were good friends, but then the king died and his son took over. The son had the 'hates strong empires' trait so the relationship quickly soured.

Update: Brought the campaign to a close today.

My conquest of Sahara went better than expected, as the Garamantian king Akinidad was killed while attacking the town of Sabrata. He foolishly split his army while attacking, which allowed my smaller garrison to pick his army off group by group. Once the south was under control, I made an alliance with the Suebians, who had complete control of Spain.

Here's the map at the end of the campaign. I'm quite pleased with how it ended up, and I really don't think I could have expanded much more without losing control. My 10 legions did a good job keeping all of the provinces in line, but with a 12 army limit there's not much more I could do.

I'm going to start a campaign as the Saxons next - one of my favourite factions in the game. I'll try and remember to get some screenies this time around too.

Was there a time limit that ended the game? Or did you meet the victory conditions for the WRE?

There is a 12 army limit? How does the game determine what an army is?

It is interesting to look at the map. I can figure out a few of the factions, but most I can only guess at from their symbols. I am guessing you bought map info from the Huns, who seem to have split up in the far east, with one group going due west across the Ukraine and the other south along the coast of the Caspian Sea.

I just decided to end it. I'd achieved all victory conditions except 'Survive until 425 AD', so I'd just have a few dozen turns of waiting around.

Your army limit is tied to your imperium level (in the base game that's how much tech you've researched, but I use a mod that ties it to the land you own instead) and by 'army' it means generals. There's a separate limit for naval forces. I think the max limit might be more than 12, but at my imperium level that's what I had.

As for the map - starting as WRE, with ERE as an ally, I had most of the map already revealed. The stuff to the East was revealed by one of my spies, who just ran all the way along that revealed line.

Related to this, we got a Senate mission to take a town from the Gauls. Well, Khajiit had made an alliance with the Gauls a bit earlier so it was either try to get the town by might or by a deal. We tried diplomacy first, but the Gauls were having none of it. After 3 attempts with deals, we were forced to send in an army to take the town. It was a combined force of 50 or so cavalry and around 450 infantry (the entry level sword and shield legionnaires). We ran into an army just outside the town so we decided to attack that army opting for an open battle instead of initiating the town assault. The enemy had reinforcements, so they were separated into 3 different groups (2 of which were absurdly small). We swiftly destroyed the two smaller groups and then engaged the larger group. We managed to handily defeat the larger group but somehow or other our cavalry went... missing. Khajiit is certain it wasn't destroyed, but when it came time to assault the town the cavalry was just gone. Well, in any case, the town was easily taken since most of its defenders died in the previous battle. Man, Khajiit hated breaking that alliance (the Celts are his people after all). Curse you Senate!

I hope the reward from the Senate was worth it!




I made a start with the Saxons this evening. The Saxons start in the city of Tulifurdum, in the province of Frisia. I share the province with the Franks in the town of Flevum and the Angles in the town of Angulus. My immediate plans are to take the rest of Frisia. I'll start with the Franks on the coast, which will allow me to get some trade going by sea, before moving against the Angles.

A surprise visit from the Caledonians (who I haven't even met yet) turned out to be an offer of marriage between my king's son and their king's daughter. She seems nice, and has some good traits, so I accepted.

Just before logging off, the Rugians (who lived in the province to my east) were destroyed by the Burgundians. The Burgundians immediately offered me a trade deal and some gold, both of which I accepted. I began producing furs as soon as I could, so now I have quite a good source of income as well as a potential ally.


Here's the world map in turn 1

Here's the family tree

The Saxons seem like a solid choice for creating a Dark Age empire with. Good luck Haz! Down with Franks!!

So is there a way to do campaigns with nationalities other than Romans in RTW? Also, is there a TW game which features ancient/medieval China as a playable faction or factions?

If I remember correctly, you unlock some new factions after completing your first campaign. There are also two expansions, Barbarian Invasion and Alexander, that add more factions.

There hasn't been a Chinese TW yet as far as I know. The closest is probably Shogun and Shogun 2, set in Japan.

Ah ok, it makes sense that factions would unlock as you play. Khajiit thinks a TW game with ancient China would be really cool! You know what else he thinks would be really cool? Total War: Tamriel (or a game very similar). It would be awesome.

So Khajiit was up till 6am CST playing on a Julii Short Campaign. Should've remembered how easy it is to lose track of time with these types of games. The dominos appear to be about ready to fall, hopefully we will get a few more generals/governors because as of now we are out due to losing not one but two generals while taking a Gaulish stronghold too near my territory. We had two really big armies with the AI leading one (seemingly a mistake) and the only thing Khajiit can figure out is that this one wasn't paying close attention to the map because strong enemy units kept showing up on the hilltop plaza area and both our generals were killed when the battle broke down into attrition.

CondateFeles: I have forgotten what the Senate missions were like. I modded them out of my RTW games a looong time ago, and turned the Romans into a single faction. That allowed me to repurpose three of the Roman factions into new factions.

My advice is to just ignore the Senate missions unless they are something you were already planning on doing. In the end, you are going to have to fight the Senate and all the other Roman factions anyhow. There is no point trying to get on their good side. Because the more powerful you become, the more they will hate you anyway.

It is possible your cavalry unit got wiped out when you were not looking. The downside to the real time nature of RTW is that it is hard to keep track of everything going on at once. Especially with units in woods. Light cavalry has an auto-skirmish feature that makes them automatically retreat whenever an enemy unit comes near. But Heavy (melee) cavalry will just sit them when someone walks up and attack them. Then they will go into combat, and they won't stop until either they or their enemy is wiped out. I pause the game a lot, usually every few seconds, so I can look at everything.

Concerning playable factions, I think when you destroy a faction, it becomes available to play. But that does not work for every faction in the game. Some were never meant to be played by a human. You can kind of guess which ones when you look at their units lists, because some are rather sparse. However, you can make them all instantly available by modding a text file.




This Page has links to lots of articles about modding RTW 1


hazmick: I played the Saxons a bit in RTW 1: Barbarian Invasion. I liked their shield wall ability. But it was a tough start with only one province, and lots of enemies around.

Your faction leader looks like a superhero in that Sutton Hoo helmet!

Ugh yeah Khajiit lost a major battle because of this. We were going up against a Gaulish army in a heavily wooded area between France and the Iberian Peninsula (closing in on their final strongholds). It was so dense Khajiit couldn't see what was going on and the enemy came up on us while we were trying to find a way out the forest. It must be said, though, that this one didn't handle the situation very well. Khajiit's very own version of the Teutoburg Forest, lol! "Give me back my Legions!!

Update: Had a pretty eventful evening tonight.

I began by sending a force to capture Flevum, the Frankish port settlement, which went pretty smoothly. The bulk of the Frankish force was over in Britannia, capturing Londinium (which is now their capital). Owning a port allowed me to get some trade deals going with the Jutes and Geats to the North.

Not long after gaining this new settlement, the Alamans declared war on me. I thought it was just a courtesy declaration, and that nothing would come of it. A couple of turns later, and 2000 Alamans attacked Flevum. My own garrison of 900 (mostly sailors) managed to kill over 1000 Alamans before the battle was lost - fortunately the Alamans just looted the settlement rather than capturing it. Screens below:

The Alamans attacked from the north and the east.

My defenders prepare to hold the line. After a short, bloody battle the victorious Alamans survey their handiwork.

After this battle, the majority of the Alaman forces moved to attack my capital at Tulifurdum. My king, Gewis, rode out to intercept them and managed to all but destroy them. The other Alaman force, led by their king Hariobaud, remained behind to continue raiding Flevum. It was here, on a rainy day in autumn, that he was killed:

Once again, the outnumbered Saxons await their enemy.

King Hariobaud takes to the field.

Thus ends the reign of Hariobaud, king of the Alamans.


Once their king died, the remaining Alaman forces retreated from my lands. Hopefully Hariobaud's successor will be willing to accept a peace treaty.

I say exterminate the Alamanni with fire and sword!

So is Atilla like Shogun 2, in that when your settlements are attacked, a garrison will automatically spawn within it based upon the size of the palace/castle/government building? Do you have to spend a few turns building siege engines like rams and towers, or can you attack enemy settlements right away?

Now I am tempted to give Atilla a try. But I am not in a huge hurry, I think that I will watch for it to go on sale.

In the meantime I might fire up Barbarian Invasion, or give Shogun 2 another go.

Khajiit concurs with Subbie, Haz. Fire. And. Sword!

On a side note, this game makes Khajiit want to watch Gladiator or Spartacus(1960), lol

Funny thing about R:TW1. It's out in *Android, priced at ¥1200, and whaddya know, I have this recent craze about being a consul and striking out north of the Eternal City...

EDIT: *Oops, I meant in iOS. LOL

Ja there's one for iPad too. Khajiit just finds it difficult to control games on his phone, though a tablet would be better.

*edit* and now Khajiit saw the edit, lol

*edit2* Derp, its only available on iPad

The Alamans will get what's coming to them, I assure you.

Yep, every settlement has a garrison that reflects the main building. Other buildings sometimes add a unit or two to the garrison as well (WRE has specific garrison buildings that add even more).

You need to build siege equipment if they have a wall. You can also encircle a settlement to wait them out, causing them attrition and eventually leading to their surrender.

Update. Year 401AD:

Started off the day with a declaration of war by the Burgundians and their allies, the Lugians. Kind of expected it since the Burgundian king had the 'opportunistic' and 'untrustworthy' traits.

Then, disaster struck. The Alamans weren't quite as weak as I thought, and returned to Flevum with another 2000 troops. My king's son-in-law had an army stationed there, and died in the defense. Once again we were defeated and the Alamans went on their merry way.

Almost immediately, a force of Lugians appeared from the Burgundian land to the north, and swooped down to claim Flevum for their own. Honestly I was a little relieved to have Flevum taken off my hands, since it was getting too expensive to keep trying to rebuild it. The Lugians later offered me peace, and I accepted.

I also made friends with the Langobards to the south, and began trading with them, as well as forging non-aggression pacts with the Geats and Jutes to the north (losing the port also cancelled my trade deals with them both). The accursed Alamans also offered us peace, and I accepted (for now).

I spent the next while upgrading my army and the city of Tulifurdum. I also recruited a priestess (one of the types of agents) who provides bonuses to religion, public order, and friendly troop's stats. She can also disrupt enemy armies and settlements, and assassinate enemy agents (like the Burgundian champion that came to spy on my garrison).

At the same time, the Burgundians were losing land to the east, and before long only had 1 settlement left - Angulus. Yep, the Angulus that lies in the north of my province. My king led his army north and blockaded Angulus, eventually forcing the Burgundians to surrender the town. Since they're a barbarian faction, they weren't destroyed when they lost their last settlement. Instead they are now a migratory horde which can set up camp and travel freely. We signed a peace agreement and I let them leave. Capturing Angulus also means that I can reopen trade with the Jutes.

As of now, I'm only at war with one faction - the Western Roman Empire. The fog of war conceals most of the map, but from what I can gather it would seem that they lost Rome, and a great deal of their eastern provinces, to rebels and barbarians. WRE are now concentrated around Africa and Spain, presumably operating out of Carthago (it's where I would choose if I was them.)

Here's a screenie of the world map as it is now. As you can see, the Lugians are sitting on my east and west. I think an alliance would be of great benefit.

Lol, sounds like Subbie and Khajiit underestimated your enemy!
Do you you know where the Alamans are based out of, or are they one of the nomadic barbariane groups?

I'm pretty sure that the Alaman capital is the city of Uburzis in Germania. It's as large as Tulifurdum, and produces gemstones - a pretty good base of power.

The Alamans have the ability to be nomads, I think, so I'll have to make sure not to leave any lurking around when I finally have my revenge.