Personally I like seeing the storyline unfold as I go on and have the character's skill and power grow as the eventual threat level presented to you by the enemies increases in your typical difficulty curve.

Besides, isn't doing sidequests also just running down a rail? I mean, they're smaller rails, sure, but they're still rails. Hell, I'd take issue with calling the MQ's for those games 'rails' in the first place considering you can complete them however you'd like...

There are two basic kinds of games. In one the game tells you a story. In the other a game allows you to tell your own story. Main quests in open world games, and linear games in general, are all about the game telling you the story. I do agree that side quests are much smaller rails. But well constructed side quests have multiple destinations, and can be mixed with other side quests to allow you to use them to create a unique story for multiple characters. Or simply ignored completely if they do not suit a particular character's tale. OTOH, a main quest typically has one outcome. It might have two if the game designer is feeling generous. Daggerfall is the last Bethesda game where I really recall a large number of different possibilities. Of course they nerfed that by making them all happen regardless of what you actually do.

But even side quests are only a minor thing in my mind. I do not play Skyrim because I am so thrilled with getting a golden claw for Lucan for the fiftieth time. For me, it is all about my character, not the story(ies) Bethesda wrote, big or small. I play it to explore the world and get to know my character. It is just my opinion, but I think the main strength and selling point of an open world game is the open world itself. Why bother creating an open world if you expect the players to ignore the open-ended possibilities and instead follow a main quest? Why not just make a purely linear game instead, and save yourself a lot of extra headaches?

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Mar 4 2013, 06:03 PM

All in all, main quests are not necessary for me when it comes to deciding what game I want to buy. How many things it forces me to do in order for me to just play it however, does.

Bethesda's has, I believe, been to tell a story within a large open world and through the story, encourage the players to explore it as much as possible through the course of completing the main quest. The structure of their main quests (at least from Morrowind onwards; I can't speak for the earlier games as my only experience with those was getting stuck in the first dungeon in Daggerfall) is one that sends the player roaming all across the game world and sets them on routes that are dotted with all sorts of ruins, side quests and interesting places and considering that there's no time limit on any of the quests Bethesda encourages exploration via the medium of the main quest. The TES games/Fallout 3 have never really been about the development of the main character, who's just some stats and a blank slate for the player to project onto, but instead about building the world; through the main quest they actively encourage players to explore the open ended possibilities instead of discouraging them to. Hell, Fallout: New Vegas takes this a step further by tying almost every side quest and location together into it's main storyline of the war for the Hoover Dam. The main quest becomes the goal, and I, at least, find there's little for me to be interested in if I have no goal or target to reach in the main quest; there's no character development or depth of the main protagonist to interested, the dialogue isn't well written enough for me to actively go and seek it out, Cyrodiil isn't interesting or unique enough to warrant much exploration, the combat by itself isn't enough to hold the games up even if Newgen Fallout's VATS system is pretty fun and now I realise that I don't actually like the Elder Scrolls games very much. Huh.

tl;dr: I think you've misunderstood the authorial (well, developer) intent concerning the purpose of an open world game.

Some wasteland scavvin´, a trip to Canterbury and a few dead Outcasts.

Darkness fell so back to Megaton to dump some loot in the appropriate places and then to Rivet City, waiting for the market to open. Hopefully they´ll have some more 5mm ammo in stock. It´s needed, the Vulcan spits them out fast. Really fast...

Yeah I tried Daggerfall a couple of days ago and it is basically impossible to get out of the first dungeon. You can read my rants in the "what are you playing" thread. I can't believe Beth made that game.

Oh, I would not be surprised if Bethesda intended the game to be played in a linear fashion - following the main quest and only visiting other places as they came across them while going from one part of the MQ to another. Skyrim especially feels this way, in the way that you often have to do certain quests in order to do other, completely unrelated ones (such as how you have to do the Mages Guild questline in order to complete the Gauldr Amulet questline). But my observation about the strength of an open world is not based upon what the developer may or may not have intended, but rather from observation of not only my gaming, but others.

What I have noticed over the years is that people like yourself who approach ES games in a linear fashion - following the main quest and the story it tells you - get tired of it and want to move on. That is no surprise, all linear games are like that. You can only do the same thing so many times before it is stale. I loved the KOTOR games, but once I played each a few times, I do not want to again. Been there done that after all.

However, those people like myself who ignore the main quests in Bethesda games - people like Acadian, Mirocu, Pseron Wyrd, etc... - we play the same game for years, and still love it. The reason is because we invent our own stories for our characters, and do not care what story Bethesda wants to tell us. This is why I think the real strength of these games is in the open world and freedom it gives players. Because the people who love the games for years are embracing that aspect of them. We do not expect the game to provide us with character development or depth. We provide that ourselves with our roleplaying. In fact, the developer trying to force that can be a detriment, because their ideas might contradict with our own. For example, I found Mass Effect to be very claustrophobic, because I could not play the character I wanted to. I did not want to be a space marine. I did not want to be a human. I did not want to be a secret agent. My ability to roleplay was constrained by the developer's attempt to force their character upon me, rather than allowing me to create my own. I played that game once, and now it collects dust. By contrast I still love Oblivion years after I first started playing it.

Now I am not saying that one way is the 'right' way to play the games, and one way the 'wrong' one. What I am observing is that the people who love the games for a long time appear to be the ones who ignore the main quests, and instead use the game as a sandbox to play in.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Mar 5 2013, 11:59 PM

Downtown. Dupont area.

Most Super Muties and other baddies gone and not many new arrivals since last time I was here. After some fruitless re-searching of the area I decided to head back out into the wastes where I can roam free as I please. First visit; RobCo Factories and Tenpenny Tower. The latter proved to have an interesting ammo supply but not the 5mm I wanted.

Standing at the tower gate, gazing into the deadlands. Wonder where I will go next....?

@Subrosa: Hmm, I think I see what you mean. Don't really find the idea immensely appealing, to be honest, but whatever works for you.


In other news, Courier has been lending a hand around Zion Valley, helping the Sorrows tribe out, aided by Waking Cloud. I've always argued that one of the best parts of New Vegas is the companions you can recruit, and Honest Hearts really seems to be working that angle; so far, both Waking Cloud and Follows Chalk have become two of my favourite companions in the game, even though I've only just had them tagging along.

Random scavvin´ and pointless running around downtown and the wastes. Kinda fun though to re-visit Greyditch, seems like I missed out on looting some of the empty houses there last time. I also visited the teddy bear factory. Some.... interesting bears in there I must say

Btw, Mustard. What happened to your other avatar? I liked him

This post has been edited by mirocu: Mar 9 2013, 09:37 AM

Arthur Tale narrowly escaped being chewed to bits by minigun fire in the mall. He ducked into the Museum of History and is currently taking a breather in the haven of Underworld. Smells a bit but it beats being shot up...

You mean Hedonism Bot? He just lost out to Nikola Tesla, that's all.

Edit; Also, lookit mah pikchuh of Courier! Good shot, right?

This post has been edited by Colonel Mustard: Mar 10 2013, 03:45 PM

Yep Nice to see stuff from NV.

Edit: Re-visited the Nuka Cola plant to pick up stuff I can´t believe I missed last time. I wouldn´t have missed them but got distracted and forgot to come back to the place where the locked safe was.

Still looking for that welcome note...

Edit 2: I found it! But damn was it hard to spot! I also got up on Simm´s roof and out on the balcony. Took me the better part of half an hour jumping from the outside fence. I got up only to find there was a hatch all along from the inside.

I need so many facepalms right now...

This post has been edited by mirocu: Mar 10 2013, 08:46 PM

I agree with this 100%. As I've said before (probably ad nauseum), I view Bethesda's games as a kind of blank canvas on which I paint my own pictures.

Bioware and Obsidian's games have a really short shelf-life with me. I have a really hard time staying interested. I tend to enjoy these games once maybe, and that's about it. Some of them I've even lost interest in before I finished the first time through. It was that way with Dragon Age: Origins. I lost interest in the game about 3/4 of the way through. But I plan to try again. It's just that, at some point in these linear games, it begins to feel like work. It feels like a chore. If I can't determine my own fate, chart my own course, get into my own trouble, there is not a lot there for me, nothing much to hold my interest.

Roleplaying games are a creative outlet for me. I'm not interested in being a passive observer. I'll watch television before I watch video game cut scenes. I subscribe to the Amazon Queen school of thought concerning main quests: do away with them altogether. Focus that energy and attention on developing interesting and engaging guild quests and miscellaneous quests and random quests. A Bethesda game without a main quest - but with interesting guild quests - would be my a near-perfect game.

This post has been edited by Pseron Wyrd: Mar 10 2013, 10:19 PM

I lost interest in Dragon Age within an hour. I forget whether I have Origins or DA2, though. I basically installed the game on my PS3 (that took damn near a half-hour iirc!) and then watched the opening intro. Started at the very beginning (moving my character around) and immdiately lost interest. Turned off DA and turned on TES: IV.

I do wanna give it another chance, though, at some point.

Once again I´m forced to agree with mr Wyrd
-----------------

Another one down. This one with a terrible first name, the other a while back had the terrible last name. Nuff said, moving on.

Rock Creek Caverns is up. Going down the hole with my trusty flamer; best weapon against vermin. No, I´m not going after politicians!

Edit: After Rock Creek, Little Lamplight was visited again and ammo was purchased along with a schematic. Before that some random scavvin´ in the wasteland.

This post has been edited by mirocu: Mar 16 2013, 09:57 AM

Have found several bobbleheads and Quantums recently, as well as pre-war toasters. Things are going mirocu´s way

Found yet another Quantum today!

This post has been edited by mirocu: Mar 20 2013, 08:57 PM

I agree with this...I've had much more fun making my own story up around what Bethesda tries to make us do, right up to the point where I have no interest in doing any proper quests with my newest Skyrim one...And now

I'm doing it with my Fallout one too...Well...Except for this one...

Michael Saint-Grey found an old note in his pip-boy and with a great sigh, stored all but the most essential of items and headed off to the D.C. ruins...


--------------------------------



"Who the hell are you? and why are you in power armour? You're not one of ours..."

"Why do you care? You're Brotherhood of Steel aren't you?"

"Lyons Pride." the blonde lady extened a gloved hand, "Sarah Lyons."

"Catchy name, little pretentious maybe." Michael smiled behind his T-51 mask.

"You as handy with that rifle as you are with the sarcasm?"

"Whoa yeah."

"You wanna help or get in the way?"

"Maybe both...Wait!" Michael said as Lyons turned her gun in his direction, "Joking! I'll help...Super Mutants?"

Lyons nodded and raised an eyebrow, "Whoa yeah."

The captain turned her head upwards and shouted, "MOVE OUT PEOPLE! COME ON!! LETS GO! Come on you, point and shoot carefully, we're headed for the Gee-enn-are building."

"Hey, what a coincidence." Saint-Grey said, checking his rifle.

Found a few more Quantums but no more bobbleheads... Have now downloaded a few merchant mods I´m excited to try out, one of them is a caravan of friendly Behemoths!!

Also I plan on getting a mod that enables me to buy Quantums with pre-war money in pristine vending machines.

This post has been edited by mirocu: Apr 1 2013, 12:21 PM

I didn't find a single Bobblehead in my entire game. But, then again, I wasn't looking too hard. I know I missed at least one, in the beginning. I probably walked right past others too. Well, it gives me something to look forward to in my next game.