QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Nov 25 2015, 05:03 PM)
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The point is that he faced the dark side in that cave and emerged the better for it, despite the so-called failure. That failure is what fueled him to be able to withstand the later confrontations with Vader, which I don't believe would have been possible without the failure in the cave. Too often we see the Jedi run from those confrontations out of fear for what could happen. That, to me, is the very definition of cowardice.
Except he didn't. he failed the test so completely that after the vision he basically gave in to fear, abandoned his training, and ended up in a fight against Vader that he wasn't ready for. Rather than run away from a confrontation for fear of what could happen, Luke ran into a confrontation for fear of what could happen. Not only did he fail the test, but he failed to learn anything from it.
It's only after Luke goes back to Yoda in return of the Jedi that he's really a Jedi. He speaks to Yoda, and then to Obi-Wan , knowing that they lied to him. But he's not raging out or anything.
And bear in mind that later in the Extended Universe timeline Luke Skywalker turned to the dark side. So even after confronting the dark side, and then redeeming his father from it, he still turned to the dark side and ended up serving the Reborn Emperor.
QUOTE(Destri Melarg @ Nov 25 2015, 05:03 PM)
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And Clone Wars Obi-Wan absolutely failed, I agree with you on that. But success is not a measure of what makes one a good guy.
True, but the fact he didn't finish Anakin off shows a distinct lack of conviction. Then again, his hands were tied by the original films, so I suppose you can't solely blame him for that
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And in all honesty, I don't think that any Jedi involved in the Clone Wars can be considered good, since it meant them turning a blind eye to the slave army the Republic is using.
QUOTE(SubRosa @ Nov 25 2015, 06:03 PM)
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I agree with Destri here on Jedi emotion. The whole Jedi philosophy of fighting and repressing ones emotions has been proven to have disastrous consequences in the real world. When you deny your emotions you give up all control over them, and in the darkest recesses of your mind they grow into a Shadow that is guaranteed to break loose in the form of some extremely unfortunate behavior, usually at the most socially awkward moment possible.
The only way to master your emotions is to first accept them, and understand that they come from you and only you. No one can make you mad, or frightened, or happy. They all come from you, and you have the power to do something about them. With unwanted emotions - like jealousy and hatred - the next step is to take a hard, uncensored look at yourself and face the reasons you feel these things, and then do something about it. It might be to come to understand that the person you are jealous of doesn't really have it all that good after all, or to realize that you are projecting all of your own insecurities onto them, or just to buy a Jaguar so you can get hand-jobs from women you don't even know (a.k.a. the midlife crisis special)...
Most of all you have live with your emotions to learn to well, live with them. The Jedi never do that. Instead they learn to pretend to never to feel anything. They are the Cult of Prozac. It is no wonder that they have all the emotional durability of porcelain that has just been thrown out of a twenty story window. Sometimes it seems like every time a puppy dies a Jedi turns to the dark side. The Sith are no better, as they simply indulge all their most destructive emotions instead. One side has no Pathos, and the other no Ethos.
Instead they ought to be learning to live with their emotions in a healthy way, and in the process gaining true wisdom. Emotions are not a bad thing. Fear keeps people alive, it dissuades us from doing stupid things like dancing on the edge of cliffs, or jumping into lion cages (well, most of us at least). Anger has often led people to fight injustice. Without lust we wouldn't be alive in the first place. And so on. I think the whole Jedi/Sith philosophies are just evidence that George Lucas does not know a whole lot about actually living life.
While I agree with you in principle, I don't think it can be directly applied to the Jedi. Bear in mind we don't know the mechanics of how the Jedi and Sith manipulate and direct the Force, the impact their emotional state has on that, or exactly how great the risks involved are. What we're doing is the equivalent of debating magical techniques in Dungeons and Dragons.
But consider how much damage an emotionally unstable person could do with a gun. The Force has far greater destructive potential than that, and it's not something someone can simply put down. Stripping them of their connection to the Force is possible, but appears to require several Jedi Masters to do so, and is irreversible. And these individuals can manipulate the Force long before they would reach emotional maturity.
The Jedi have thousands of years worth of examples of what can happen when a Jedi turns to the dark side, including Sith Lords who've brought the Republic to it's knees, fought the Jedi Order to the brink of destruction, or wiped out entire planets. It's not like they're exaggerating the threat, and using emotions to channel the Force is a Sith doctrine, written into their own Code. Is it really any surprise the Jedi take the opposite stance?
QUOTE(SubRosa @ Nov 25 2015, 06:33 PM)
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So am I the only one who think that
Kylo Ren's outfit is a ripoff of
Darth Revan's?
I'll be honest, there's been an advert on tv for batteries with that mask on it, and until now I could have sworn it actually was Revan on there instead
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