Kotor, The Knights of the Old Repulic 1 & 2 topic Options

[SubRosa]

Since it stirred up a few posts worth of talk in the What Are You Playing topic, I thought I would make the Kotor games a thread of their own.

I'll start with some handy tips for playing them on a modern computer. First off getting them to install on a 64 bit OS is probably not likely. But Gog.com has them for $10 each, and their installs will work on Windows 7 (I haven't tried them on my Win 8 tablet, and I don't have Win 10, but I am sure they work on those OSes as well). There are probably some modder-built installers floating around the internets if you still have the old cds as well.

In any case, neither game can do 1920 x 1080 resolution out of the box. But you can get it on each.


The only way I know for Kotor 1 is to use Flawless Widescreen. You have to start it first, select the Kotor profile, and leave it running. Then start Kotor 1 itself and go to the graphics options to set the resolution there to anything different from what you find it. 1920 x 1080 won't be there the first time you try. But change the resolution to something anyway. Flawless Widescreen is a memory hack, that detects the change in resolutions and then tries to add in the higher resolutions. Exit the game, restart it, and 1920 x 1080 might be there the second time. If not, go for a third time, etc... Sometimes it comes up the second time. Sometimes even after six or seven times it does not. If I go that long I turn off Flawless Widescreen and open it again. Usually then the next time you start Kotor you have the higher resolutions. Sadly, you have to do this every time you play the game.

Okay, I found an update to running Kotor 1 at high resolution. Make a backup copy of your Swkotor.exe file. Download the KotOR High Resolution Menus 1.4. Then copy the 3 hires_patcher files to your main Kotor folder. Run the bat file. It will ask you four questions, such as the width, height, etc... that you want. Then go back to the file you downloaded, and navigate to the folder of the screen size you want. They will first be in ratios like 16-9, and so on. Drill down until you find the one you want. Then copy the files over to your Kotor\Override folder. Done! The menus in the game will look really big. But the hud will be visible in gameplay.

Now a year later, I am having problems with even this method. It just is not working anymore, and I do not know why. But what I did find that works is to download the latest version of Flawless Widescreen here. I used the x86 version. Run that and select the Kotor 1 profile. Then start Kotor 1, go to the graphics options, and 1920 x 1080 will be there for you to change to.

You only have to change the graphics options once. But you do have to start Flawless Widescreen every time, before you start Kotor. It is a bit more convenient than the old way of using Flawless Widescreen however.





Kotor 2 has a slightly more complicated fix, but at least you only have to do it once, and then you will always have the high resolution.

Start the game and set it to the highest resolution available, then exit it.

Run the Universal Widescreen Patcher. Select the Kotor2 profile, tell it where the game is on the computer, and put in the resolution you want (1920 x 1080).

Go to your Kotor 2 folder and open swkotor2.ini file.

Set the following:
Under
[Display Options]
Width=1920
Height=1080

Under
[Graphics Options]
Width=1920
Height=1080

Copy the Widescreen UI Fix to the Kotor2\Override folder.

Done!


Steam has the revamped version of Kotor 2 done by Aspyr. It has the advantage of high resolutions built in without need of all the work above. But other than that it does not really add anything I personally care about. It is all Steam achievements, Steam cloud saves, controller support, and so on. The native 5k support would be handy for folks like ghastley that use multiple monitors though. But I think that can be done as with a hack (not positive though). I am glad I did not buy it this way, as I got everything I wanted from the Gog version, without the added joy of DRM.



On to mods.
Kotor 1 & 2
Kotor Tool - A modding tool that allows you to extract and mod the game's files.

Kotor Savegame Editor - A savegame editor that allows you to modify all of your stats, and those of your companions. It works on both games. One really cool thing about it is that it allows you to edit your inventory, and modded items will show up in the editor. So you don't need to use the command console to add them within the game.


Kotor 1
Lightsaber Choices - When you construct your lightsaber on Dantoine, this mod gives you more options in the choice of your color crystal, what type of saber (standard, short, or double), and lets you create a second one too if you want to dual wield.

90SK's K1 Robes - changes the look of the jedi robes, based on the Bastila robes. A big improvement over the vanilla look.

Deadly Stream has a huge amount of Kotor mods. Of course there is a Kotor 1 Nexus site, and Gamewatcher has a few Kotor 1 mods


Kotor 2
First and foremost is the Sith Lords Restored Content Mod, which puts a ton of stuff back into that game that never got used in the release version. I am using it now for the first time, but since I have not gotten far, I cannot say just how much it really changes. It sounds like it adds an awful lot though.

Again Deadly Stream has a bunch of Kotor 2 mods. The Nexus has a Kotor 2 site and Gamewatcher has a Kotor 2 mod site as well.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Dec 15 2020, 04:10 AM

[SubRosa]

It is when we are children that we begin to learn to deal with our emotions. First we throw tantrums. Then if we have good parenting we learn that simply screaming is not the way to get what we want and need. We learn to love and care for others. We learn what is like to lose those we love - when our goldfish dies, when the family dog or cat dies, as we watch grandma and grampa die. This is where we first learn to deal with grief, and to understand that we can live with loss. Childhood is one of the most important parts of a person's life, because this is when ideas and behaviors are first instilled, such as possessing a conscience. Instead of learning how to wield lightsabers, 8-year olds should be learning how to be 8-year olds. How to just live life as decent sentient beings, rather than how to be killing machines.

But powers they cannot control? One thing the movies and games have been very clear about is that without training, force ability is all but wasted. No one even has a clue that they are force-sensitive until an actual force-user tells them. Anakin was the Uber Chosen One, possessing the most raw power of any Force-user ever. Yet without training all that amounted to was he was a good pod racer. Luke was force-sensitive, but without Obi-Wan's guidance he was just a good pilot. The same with Leia, and so on.

OTOH, the entire army of Jedi that went to war with Revan turned to the dark side. As you said yourself, even Luke went to the dark side. People in the KOTOR games don't like Jedi because they cannot see any difference between the Jedi and the Sith. Given that most of the Sith were Jedi it is no surprise. The Sith (not the race, but the 'modern' force-users) even started out as renegade Jedi. The failings of the Jedi Order created them. That is pretty significant.

Remember that the dark side is constantly tempting people. That is not a stabilizing influence. The more one is in touch with the Force, the more danger there is of going over the edge. A person really needs to know themselves to survive that temptation. Locking yourself out from your own feelings is a guarantee that you will not be able to control yourself. I am not making this up. Look up Repression or Facing The Shadow. Even without super-powers thrown in, that is a powderkeg just waiting to go off.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Nov 26 2015, 04:05 AM

[Callidus Thorn]

It is when we are children that we begin to learn to deal with our emotions. First we throw tantrums. Then if we have good parenting we learn that simply screaming is not the way to get what we want and need. We learn to love and care for others. We learn what is like to lose those we love - when our goldfish dies, when the family dog or cat dies, as we watch grandma and grampa die. This is where we first learn to deal with grief, and to understand that we can live with loss. Childhood is one of the most important parts of a person's life, because this is when ideas and behaviors are first instilled, such as possessing a conscience. Instead of learning how to wield lightsabers, 8-year olds should be learning how to be 8-year olds. How to just live life as decent sentient beings, rather than how to be killing machines.

But powers they cannot control? One thing the movies and games have been very clear about is that without training, force ability is all but wasted. No one even has a clue that they are force-sensitive until an actual force-user tells them. Anakin was the Uber Chosen One, possessing the most raw power of any Force-user ever. Yet without training all that amounted to was he was a good pod racer. Luke was force-sensitive, but without Obi-Wan's guidance he was just a good pilot. The same with Leia, and so on.

At the age of eighteen, Dessel, who later became Darth Bane, used the Force to kill his father. He had received no training, was unaware of his abilities, but had a great deal of anger. A standout case, I'll grant you, but in the books there are plenty of references to Force sensitive individuals gaining a measure of control over their abilities without training. A child throwing a tantrum may well be able to lash out with the Force.

And considering that the prequels are a continuity trainwreck, even with just the original films, I'm inclined to ignore anything from them. Particularly where Anakin Skywalker is concerned, in light of the hang up they had with him.

But, this entire discussion is rather academic. If they could simply wait until a Force sensitive individual was an emotionally stable adult before training them to use the Force, then why weren't they simply doing that? Unless you think they were just screwing people up for kicks, then there must be a very specific reason for their approach.

OTOH, the entire army of Jedi that went to war with Revan turned to the dark side. As you said yourself, even Luke went to the dark side. People in the KOTOR games don't like Jedi because they cannot see any difference between the Jedi and the Sith. Given that most of the Sith were Jedi it is no surprise. The Sith (not the race, but the 'modern' force-users) even started out as renegade Jedi. The failings of the Jedi Order created them. That is pretty significant.

Revan was something of a special case. He basically had his mind controlled by the single most powerful Force user in existence, the Sith Emperor, who turned him against the Republic to pave the way for his invasion. As for Revan turning the rest, Kreia explains that in one of the conversations with her.

And why would the people in KotOR see any difference between Jedi and Sith? It was Revan who led the Jedi into the war against the Mandalorians, only to disappear, return as Sith, and wage war on the Republic. When you've got a Jedi hero leading an army of Sith, you think the people are going to differentiate?

And Luke thought he was saving the galaxy somehow by doing so, and I believe it was implied that he believed his father had made the same choice. It's been a while since I read the graphic novels in question.

And it should be pointed out that the conflict between light and dark side Force users has been taking place since the Force was first harnessed, long before the dogmatic Jedi Order was even established. Since we don't know the specifics of how it began, or the original doctrines regarding training of those who were Force sensitive, it is entirely possible that what your advocating was tried and failed, leading to the Jedi and their doctrine.

Remember that the dark side is constantly tempting people. That is not a stabilizing influence. The more one is in touch with the Force, the more danger there is of going over the edge. A person really needs to know themselves to survive that temptation. Locking yourself out from your own feelings is a guarantee that you will not be able to control yourself. I am not making this up. Look up Repression or Facing The Shadow. Even without super-powers thrown in, that is a powderkeg just waiting to go off.

At no point have I suggested or thought anything along those lines.

However, by your arguments the vast majority of Jedi should fall prey to the dark side. The Jedi Order should have collapsed long before even the time of Revan, just under the sheer number of dark Jedi they were creating. The fact that they didn't implies that something's working in their favour. So either the vast majority of Jedi weren't encountering any triggers to turn them to the dark side, or the fact that they were in a way connected to all life in the galaxy acted as a stabilising influence on their minds.

If your argument is that the Jedi Order shouldn't exist because they'd all go off the deep end due to being emotionally repressed, then the only reason they're still around is because the authors and writers say they are. Which essentially makes this a moot topic.

This has turned into a fascinating debate. SubRosa articulated my feelings on the subject perfectly, so I won't just parrot what she has already said. The logic behind the teachings of the order don't concern me as much as their tendency to run from their stated purpose of protecting the Republic. For the most part the Jedi who left to join the Mandalorian Wars weren't succumbing to their baser emotions, they were simply trying to fulfill their purpose as Jedi. And, instead of embracing these young Jedi the Order chose to shun them. The Exile didn't fall to the dark side, yet she (because she is always female in my mind) was shunned by the Order as well. That wasn't the Order protecting itself, that was the Order acting out in a fit of pique... and it smacks as so hypocritical that it makes me hate the Jedi by the end of the game, even when I play a light character.

Wasn't it mentioned somewhere in the KotOR games that the Jedi Council thought there was something else behind the war with the Mandalorians? It's been a while since I played them, so I'm not quite sure. It probably would have been KotOR2.

As for the Exile, she(it's actually canon that the exile was female) had a very particular affliction. She was a wound in the force, the same kind of phenomenon that we see in Darth's Nihlus and Sion. What's said about her by the Jedi Masters in KotOR2 makes it very clear that there was something very wrong with her, something that couldn't be cured, which was as much the reason for her being exiled as her actions. By the time she reached the Council she couldn't even feel the Force anymore, because of it.

And Luke didn't leave Dagobah because of his failure in the cave. The two events had nothing to do with each other. He left Dagobah after the vision of his friends in trouble. He chose to act (like Revan before him) despite Yoda's counsel that he should simply do nothing... which, it seems, is the Jedi way.

Luke reacted the same way to the test and to the vision. He freaked out, and let his fear push him into reckless action. He only survived the fight with Vader because Vader wanted to turn him to the dark side rather than kill him. Luke simply wasn't ready for the fight, which is why Yoda wanted him to finish his training. If Vader had wanted Luke dead, Luke wouldn't have stood a chance at that point.

[SubRosa]

If they could simply wait until a Force sensitive individual was an emotionally stable adult before training them to use the Force, then why weren't they simply doing that? Unless you think they were just screwing people up for kicks, then there must be a very specific reason for their approach.

I do not think it is because they were screwing people up for kicks. I think it is because they were fools. More specifically, because George Lucas doesn't know a whole lot about some of the most basic realities of human psychology. He wrote what he did in ignorance. Teaching people to repress their emotions does not make them stable, it makes them timebombs.

The vast majority of Jedi should fall to the dark side. They would if they really existed and followed the Jedi code. Because that is how the human mind works (and apparently every alien mind, since I do not believe I have ever seen an alien race in the Star Wars universe display patterns of thought or feeling different from human ones). That is what I am getting at. Lucas' writing that created the Jedi code is flawed.

This has turned into a fascinating debate. SubRosa articulated my feelings on the subject perfectly, so I won't just parrot what she has already said. The logic behind the teachings of the order don't concern me as much as their tendency to run from their stated purpose of protecting the Republic. For the most part the Jedi who left to join the Mandalorian Wars weren't succumbing to their baser emotions, they were simply trying to fulfill their purpose as Jedi. And, instead of embracing these young Jedi the Order chose to shun them. The Exile didn't fall to the dark side, yet she (because she is always female in my mind) was shunned by the Order as well. That wasn't the Order protecting itself, that was the Order acting out in a fit of pique... and it smacks as so hypocritical that it makes me hate the Jedi by the end of the game, even when I play a light character.

In Kotor 1 you learn that the Jedi Council held back from getting involved in the Mandalorian War because they felt some hidden, darker force orchestrating events. That turned out to be a Sith (the race) Empire hiding beyond Republic space. They had put the Mandalorians up to attacking the Republic. The Council wanted to wait to see what it was before committing any Jedi to the conflict. But Revan went anyway and won, and then the Sith somehow captured him and turned him, and apparently he turned the rest of his Jedi, except the Exile.

So the Council was right in that something else was out there. But their failure to act is just as damning IMHO. If not for Revan the Mandalorians would have enslaved the galaxy, the Jedi would have been hunted down one by one and killed, and the Sith would have won. OTOH, if the Council had taken part in the war, then I believe Revan would not have fallen. I base this assumption simply on the fact that the Sith Empire was hidden. If they were hiding, then they were not able to face the Republic and the Jedi Council openly. Instead they had to use proxies like the Mandalorians. So if the Council had been present, they would have been too strong for the Sith to have been able to kidnap them and turn them, as they did Revan. That is an assumption, but it seems to me that if the Sith had been strong enough to attack openly, they would have, and not hidden.

I think there is a novel or comic series that detailed it all, but I never read them, I am just going by what I read in Wookiepedia. Kotor 1 never gives any specifics about the hidden Sith Empire, or that it was even Sith. All the game ever says is a hidden enemy. So my guess is that someone simply took the events of the game, and decided to write some EU material about it after the fact which fleshed things out.

I also found myself intensely disliking the Jedi Council by the end of Kotor 1. Kotor 2 just made it worse. I suspect that the Council's unwillingness to act was simply a writing ploy used by Bioware and inherited by Obisidian as a way to make sure the player character is the only one who can save the galaxy. Just like how in Skyrim no npc can do anything, not even carry a sword from their smithy to give to their father. The player character has to do everything, because they are special. If the Council had gotten off their robed rears, there would be nothing for the player to do!

Oh, and it eventually became canon that the Jedi Exile was female, years after the game. I think it is the only case where a female protagonist is canon in a Star Wars game.

This post has been edited by SubRosa: Nov 26 2015, 05:06 PM