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> Your Writing Process, And/Or Problems with Same
Kazaera
post May 4 2019, 11:51 AM
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I agree with SubRosa and trey, especially this part:

QUOTE
The second is to just not concentrate much on that aspect of her.


The point where powerful characters become problematic is if the story only requires those traits where they can curb-stomp almost everyone. Having a supremely powerful fighter is not actually a problem for the story, the problem comes if the story then only consists of the literary equivalent of loving camera close-ups of action sequences where they destroy everyone without breaking a sweat.

A really great way of avoiding this is to move the plot into a realm where they aren't over-powerful. Maybe that's politics. Maybe that's stealth - the extremely powerful fighter finds they have to break in somewhere and navigate past traps to steal something without alerting anyone. Or they have to go undercover somewhere to gain information. Basically, throw problems at them that hit their weak spots.

You can even see if you can turn their power into a weak spot in its own right. Does your character ever underestimate the danger others pose to her? Discount someone because they're not powerful in the way she's used to? Act recklessly, knowing she can always blast her way out? Jump to combat or magic as a solution when a more diplomatic solution would have been possible? Having her make a mistake along these lines, and then be hit in the face with the consequences, is a great way of levelling this sort of power.

Also... OK, take this with a grain of salt because I think we write very different stories wink.gif but one of the ways I deal with supremely powerful characters is to skip over scenes that obviously showcase their power. (Ex: Methal Seran, in my story, is a ridiculously powerful mage. If he runs into a group of bandits, I am not writing that fight out; I scene break to the point where his summons is sweeping up small piles of ash.) This actually serves as a reinforcement to how powerful they are, because you as the author communicate that the conclusion to this fight is so foregone you don't even have to write out the combat scene, but at the same time eliminates OTT action scenes that can make your character come off as too perfect.

(On the flip side, I'd actually tread carefully around things like training montages, flashbacks and other sorts of "justification" for how powerful they are, because that still means story time focused on the things your character is fantastic at.)

Re: 2 - do you have to infodump at all? If this is a fanfic, readers can be expected to know roughly what a powerful TES mage would be capable of. Communicating "she's a powerful mage, and also a necromancer" should be fairly doable, and at that point her throwing a lightning bolt, conjuring a scamp or charming someone shouldn't come out of left field.

Other than that, other great ways of showing this kind of thing can be to show the character using their powers for mundane things. Maybe she summons a scamp to carry her shopping, charms an innkeeper into renting her his best room, uses a powered-down lightning bolt to shock an unwanted suitor or scare off a wild animal. This is great for making your character's powers seem real, and means that when she does end up using them in an important situation it's not out of left field.


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Darkness Eternal
post May 5 2019, 03:22 AM
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QUOTE(SubRosa @ May 4 2019, 01:51 AM) *

I can think of two ways to avoid her seeming like an Uber Mary Sue. The first is to immediately having her face off against opponents who are just as powerful, if not more powerful than her. The second is to just not concentrate much on that aspect of her. You mentioned politics. Spending more time on machinations and manipulations would make her physical or magical oomph less important, and stress her social and planning skills instead.

Having a well-established character to start with can be tricky in the abilities, because it might seem like deus ex machina when they use their powers at an opportune moment. One way to mitigate this is to try to present such a power you know is going to be pivotal later as a Chekov's Gun. For example we see her practicing her teleportation early, then she uses it at a critical junction later. A way to mitigate it seeming uber is to perhaps have her practice session not work exactly how she wanted it. Maybe she teleports to the wrong place. Then when she does whip it out later it seems like a real achievement when it works correctly.

My other thought is to try to simply keep her abilities all wrapped up together in a logical package. For example I recently created a superhero character who can project beams of hard light. He also uses the same hard light projected from his feet to fly. He can also use it to create force fields. They all fit together, so when he pulls out a new ability, you go "of course he can do that'.


That makes sense. The story will have two main characters, one is more out-in-the-field while she gravitates toward scholarly inclinations(though isn't above being involved in conflict), so there's plenty of focus on political savvy and the like rather than other areas. Situations where she'll be less inclined to use her own arcane knowledge and more her intellect. Thanks Subrose, this helped for sure! I just need to blast past a writer's block I'm having at the moment.

Interesting piece on Chekov's Gun. I bookmarked that page for future reference.

QUOTE(treydog @ May 4 2019, 01:58 AM) *

And another way to keep it from being too over-powered is to build in a "cost." For example, (unlike in the game mechanics) a healing potion drawing energy (fatigue) from the user.

So... although she has the powers, she has to use them judiciously and sparingly because each one (perhaps?) causes a vulnerability or etc. of some sort. And that would provide character-building as we watch her make choices.
Much like our regular RPG's, I see. Indeed both clever way for character-building and lessening the use of force. Thanks Trey!


QUOTE(mALX @ May 4 2019, 03:19 AM) *




RAVEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT !!!!!!!!!!!!



Yes!! smile.gif

QUOTE(Kazaera @ May 4 2019, 11:51 AM) *

I agree with SubRosa and trey, especially this part:


A really great way of avoiding this is to move the plot into a realm where they aren't over-powerful. Maybe that's politics. Maybe that's stealth - the extremely powerful fighter finds they have to break in somewhere and navigate past traps to steal something without alerting anyone. Or they have to go undercover somewhere to gain information. Basically, throw problems at them that hit their weak spots.

You can even see if you can turn their power into a weak spot in its own right. Does your character ever underestimate the danger others pose to her? Discount someone because they're not powerful in the way she's used to? Act recklessly, knowing she can always blast her way out? Jump to combat or magic as a solution when a more diplomatic solution would have been possible? Having her make a mistake along these lines, and then be hit in the face with the consequences, is a great way of levelling this sort of power.

Also... OK, take this with a grain of salt because I think we write very different stories wink.gif but one of the ways I deal with supremely powerful characters is to skip over scenes that obviously showcase their power. (Ex: Methal Seran, in my story, is a ridiculously powerful mage. If he runs into a group of bandits, I am not writing that fight out; I scene break to the point where his summons is sweeping up small piles of ash.) This actually serves as a reinforcement to how powerful they are, because you as the author communicate that the conclusion to this fight is so foregone you don't even have to write out the combat scene, but at the same time eliminates OTT action scenes that can make your character come off as too perfect.

(On the flip side, I'd actually tread carefully around things like training montages, flashbacks and other sorts of "justification" for how powerful they are, because that still means story time focused on the things your character is fantastic at.)

Re: 2 - do you have to infodump at all? If this is a fanfic, readers can be expected to know roughly what a powerful TES mage would be capable of. Communicating "she's a powerful mage, and also a necromancer" should be fairly doable, and at that point her throwing a lightning bolt, conjuring a scamp or charming someone shouldn't come out of left field.

Other than that, other great ways of showing this kind of thing can be to show the character using their powers for mundane things. Maybe she summons a scamp to carry her shopping, charms an innkeeper into renting her his best room, uses a powered-down lightning bolt to shock an unwanted suitor or scare off a wild animal. This is great for making your character's powers seem real, and means that when she does end up using them in an important situation it's not out of left field.
I understand. This also makes sense. Focus on other areas rather than specifically combat ones. It also makes perfect sense from a story standpoint. She's forever trapped in the guise of a young lady, and is very limited in terms of displaying any combat prowess or magical abilities mainly because she's always expected to behave as a lady of the courts, nobility, etc.

I've been analyzing my rough drafts and revising the major scenes here. Though she's strong she's very young and inexperienced when it comes to human interactions, and learns some hard truths after underestimating once-trusted rivals. For the sake of blending in mortal society, she'll have to make certain decisions. For sure this is a great way of leveling it.

This does come in handy!

You mentioned using magical abilities for mundane things. Funny you said that since I have a few scenes where she uses a familiar to fetch her bottles and personal zombies to find specific books in her library. I've noticed plenty of great characters here in the forums using such skills, such as Buffy using her abilities while making camp and bedrolls. Sometimes we have a habit of forgetting such things can be used in the day to day basis for the simplest of things. I for sure haven't used this yet in any stories I've posted.

Thanks Kaz!


--------------------
And yet I am, and live—like vapours tossed.
I long for scenes where man hath never trod
A place where woman never smiled or wept
There to abide with my Creator, God,
And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept,
Untroubling and untroubled where I lie
The grass below—above the vaulted sky.”
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BretonBlood
post May 5 2019, 03:48 PM
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My writing process is.... I suck at writing and finishing stories. I can picture everything I WANT to write I just don't know how to put it into words that are good writing, not like the talented people here on this forum anyways! So I end up with writer's block and never get around to finishing my stories.


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My first short story - "A Thief's Ascension"
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treydog
post May 5 2019, 04:26 PM
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QUOTE(BretonBlood @ May 5 2019, 10:48 AM) *

My writing process is.... I suck at writing and finishing stories. I can picture everything I WANT to write I just don't know how to put it into words that are good writing, not like the talented people here on this forum anyways! So I end up with writer's block and never get around to finishing my stories.

(Raises paw). I "think" we are getting close to finishing the fits and starts of our story, but I hear what you are saying.

So- to your specific- "knowing what you WANT to happen, but how do you make it good?"

Write the things you KNOW need to be there. Sentence fragments- phrases that have meaning to you- anything to get words on paper (or screen). And just keep doing that until you decide- that's all the stuff I can think of for now. And then- step away from it. Let it "cook". In a few days, come back to it and start thinking about what needs to go where, and how to connect the pieces. If you have the ending- write the ending, then figure out how you got there. Make it up. It's YOUR story, so no one else can tell you it's "wrong."

My 1/2 Septim anyway....


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Darkness Eternal
post May 5 2019, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE(BretonBlood @ May 5 2019, 03:48 PM) *

My writing process is.... I suck at writing and finishing stories. I can picture everything I WANT to write I just don't know how to put it into words that are good writing, not like the talented people here on this forum anyways! So I end up with writer's block and never get around to finishing my stories.

I wouldn’t say your writing sucks at all, and writing stories and finishing them can be challenging but luckily there are plenty of ways of getting over them. One thing I do is just sit down and think of my characters, setting and plot. I think about their aspirations and wants and what’s keeping them from obtaining that, the antagonists, etc.

George R.R Martin said there are two different types of writers:

QUOTE
I think there are two types of writers, the architects and the gardeners. The architects plan everything ahead of time, like an architect building a house. They know how many rooms are going to be in the house, what kind of roof they're going to have, where the wires are going to run, what kind of plumbing there's going to be. They have the whole thing designed and blueprinted out before they even nail the first board up. The gardeners dig a hole, drop in a seed and water it. They kind of know what seed it is, they know if planted a fantasy seed or mystery seed or whatever. But as the plant comes up and they water it, they don't know how many branches it's going to have, they find out as it grows. And I'm much more a gardener than an architect.




--------------------
And yet I am, and live—like vapours tossed.
I long for scenes where man hath never trod
A place where woman never smiled or wept
There to abide with my Creator, God,
And sleep as I in childhood sweetly slept,
Untroubling and untroubled where I lie
The grass below—above the vaulted sky.”
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Kazaera
post May 9 2019, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE(BretonBlood @ May 5 2019, 02:48 PM) *

My writing process is.... I suck at writing and finishing stories. I can picture everything I WANT to write I just don't know how to put it into words that are good writing, not like the talented people here on this forum anyways! So I end up with writer's block and never get around to finishing my stories.


I hear you a lot on this one. Writer's block used to be a semi-permanent feature in my head.

Honestly, the thing that's helped me the most here? Forcing myself.

Absent other commitments, I currently have a routine that requires me to write 300 words every day. I picked 300 because it's small enough that even if I'm not feeling the writing (which is basically always) it doesn't feel insurmountable, but it's large enough that if I stick to it I write more than 100k words per year. I have a whole routine for this: an alarm that goes off at which point I will go make myself a cup of tea, light some candles, sit in the one particular armchair with my laptop and write.

Thoughts on this:
- the #1 thing that will help you learn how to get what you picture into words is practice. (Also very high up here is reading, but that's easier to manage.)
- real, imperfect, flawed writing that exists for other people to use is far better than a perfect story that only exists in your head.
- even if you can tell which sections you bashed out just to hit the word count... your readers won't.

(That last point is really striking. Under my new regimen I've written stuff that around word 306 trailed off into "ugh this all SUCKS it's not GOING ANYWHERE delete later". Generally, when I come back to that section a few weeks later my reaction is "what was past me on about? this is fine!")


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TheCheshireKhajiit
post May 9 2019, 03:51 PM
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QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ May 5 2019, 01:58 PM) *

George R.R Martin said there are two different types of writers:

QUOTE
I think there are two types of writers, the architects and the gardeners. The architects plan everything ahead of time, like an architect building a house. They know how many rooms are going to be in the house, what kind of roof they're going to have, where the wires are going to run, what kind of plumbing there's going to be. They have the whole thing designed and blueprinted out before they even nail the first board up. The gardeners dig a hole, drop in a seed and water it. They kind of know what seed it is, they know if planted a fantasy seed or mystery seed or whatever. But as the plant comes up and they water it, they don't know how many branches it's going to have, they find out as it grows. And I'm much more a gardener than an architect.


He forgot to mention the type of writer who starts an epic series and then sells it halfway through to hack tv people and then goes on tour to ride the coattails of the show’s popularity when he should be writing.

FINISH THE DAMN BOOKS GEORGE!!


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BretonBlood
post May 9 2019, 09:24 PM
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QUOTE(treydog @ May 5 2019, 11:26 AM) *

QUOTE(BretonBlood @ May 5 2019, 10:48 AM) *

My writing process is.... I suck at writing and finishing stories. I can picture everything I WANT to write I just don't know how to put it into words that are good writing, not like the talented people here on this forum anyways! So I end up with writer's block and never get around to finishing my stories.

(Raises paw). I "think" we are getting close to finishing the fits and starts of our story, but I hear what you are saying.

So- to your specific- "knowing what you WANT to happen, but how do you make it good?"

Write the things you KNOW need to be there. Sentence fragments- phrases that have meaning to you- anything to get words on paper (or screen). And just keep doing that until you decide- that's all the stuff I can think of for now. And then- step away from it. Let it "cook". In a few days, come back to it and start thinking about what needs to go where, and how to connect the pieces. If you have the ending- write the ending, then figure out how you got there. Make it up. It's YOUR story, so no one else can tell you it's "wrong."

My 1/2 Septim anyway....



QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ May 5 2019, 02:58 PM) *

QUOTE(BretonBlood @ May 5 2019, 03:48 PM) *

My writing process is.... I suck at writing and finishing stories. I can picture everything I WANT to write I just don't know how to put it into words that are good writing, not like the talented people here on this forum anyways! So I end up with writer's block and never get around to finishing my stories.

I wouldn’t say your writing sucks at all, and writing stories and finishing them can be challenging but luckily there are plenty of ways of getting over them. One thing I do is just sit down and think of my characters, setting and plot. I think about their aspirations and wants and what’s keeping them from obtaining that, the antagonists, etc.

George R.R Martin said there are two different types of writers:

QUOTE
I think there are two types of writers, the architects and the gardeners. The architects plan everything ahead of time, like an architect building a house. They know how many rooms are going to be in the house, what kind of roof they're going to have, where the wires are going to run, what kind of plumbing there's going to be. They have the whole thing designed and blueprinted out before they even nail the first board up. The gardeners dig a hole, drop in a seed and water it. They kind of know what seed it is, they know if planted a fantasy seed or mystery seed or whatever. But as the plant comes up and they water it, they don't know how many branches it's going to have, they find out as it grows. And I'm much more a gardener than an architect.




QUOTE(Kazaera @ May 9 2019, 09:54 AM) *

QUOTE(BretonBlood @ May 5 2019, 02:48 PM) *

My writing process is.... I suck at writing and finishing stories. I can picture everything I WANT to write I just don't know how to put it into words that are good writing, not like the talented people here on this forum anyways! So I end up with writer's block and never get around to finishing my stories.


I hear you a lot on this one. Writer's block used to be a semi-permanent feature in my head.

Honestly, the thing that's helped me the most here? Forcing myself.

Absent other commitments, I currently have a routine that requires me to write 300 words every day. I picked 300 because it's small enough that even if I'm not feeling the writing (which is basically always) it doesn't feel insurmountable, but it's large enough that if I stick to it I write more than 100k words per year. I have a whole routine for this: an alarm that goes off at which point I will go make myself a cup of tea, light some candles, sit in the one particular armchair with my laptop and write.

Thoughts on this:
- the #1 thing that will help you learn how to get what you picture into words is practice. (Also very high up here is reading, but that's easier to manage.)
- real, imperfect, flawed writing that exists for other people to use is far better than a perfect story that only exists in your head.
- even if you can tell which sections you bashed out just to hit the word count... your readers won't.

(That last point is really striking. Under my new regimen I've written stuff that around word 306 trailed off into "ugh this all SUCKS it's not GOING ANYWHERE delete later". Generally, when I come back to that section a few weeks later my reaction is "what was past me on about? this is fine!")


Thank you guys! These were all really great advice, I am going to try and learn from them and put them into practice in hopes that I can finish some stories. Really appreciate it.


--------------------
My first short story - "A Thief's Ascension"
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ghastley
post May 13 2019, 02:45 PM
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Just don't try to use my writing method, which is to implement the story as a mod first. biggrin.gif

I'm currently writing a new chapter of Clark's Skyrim story, and I've only managed to build three levels of the dungeon, and most of that needs a lot of clutter, room bounds and portals, and other work.


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SubRosa
post Jul 10 2019, 01:24 AM
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I know this is a long shot, but does anyone know much about Boston in the Colonial era? Namely right before and after the Revolutionary War? I found some maps online and few sketchy details, but I would like more background info on things like neighborhoods at the time, leading citizens, and the like.

I ask because I decided to change January's family history. I am throwing out the idea of using The Case of Charles Dexter Ward, and making her a descendant of the titular character. It was just getting too messy thinking about Lovecraft, and deciding how to portray him in story. Since they were real, how did he know about what happened? Was he involved somehow? Was he a mythos prophet? Just a hack who got it all wrong? In the end it is a lot easier to just scrap it all.

I am keeping the general inspiration of the story however, in that January's ancestor - Nátthrafn - was an ancient undying necromancer. I am glad I decided to go this route, as in the last few days I have worked out a much more interesting background on him. He was a Viking born in the year 999, was outlawed from Denmark, journeyed to Constantinople, served in the Varangian Guard, was sent to campaign in Italy and Sicily. There he came across an ancient evil book (The Scripta Mortis), and became a necromancer.

He was thrown out of the Guard for his use of foul sorcery and knocked around Italy. He met Cnut the Great of Denmark (who was in Rome for the Holy Roman Emperor's coronation) and joined his entourage as a 'spiritual advisor'. He left with Cnut for England, where he became an Eorl, running a shire on the Channel coast.

He had to run for it when William invaded, and headed steadily north. But the 1400s he was in Iceland. There he became Gottskalk Nikulausson the Cruel, Bishop of Holar. He is a RL person who wrote the book Rauðskinna (or Red Skin), which in my fic details how to resurrect him. Turns out this was just in time, because his days were numbered.

The Pope sent a fixer out to investigate him - The Hexenhammer - Heinrich Kramer (another real person, who wrote the Malleus Maleficarum, the Hexenhammer title I came up with). Kramer was technically dead by this time. But a little thing like death never keeps a good evil witch hunter down. He faced down Nátthrafn with a mob of locals backing him, and killed Nátthrafn.

Two centuries later one of Nátthrafn's descendants found the Rauðskinna and resurrected him (the descendant died in the process of course). Nátthrafn traveled to the New World, settling in Boston in 1760 under the name Corbin. There he married, and created a shipping business in the triangle trade. He and his wife Saoirse had a daughter - Branwen (who would become Blood Raven). But again he murdered the wrong people, and dark rumors of necromancy surfaced. In 1775 John Hancock, Sam Adams, and a mob of Sons of Liberty attacked him in his catacombs (filled with undead of course). For good measure they brought along Jemima Wilkinson (a RL spiritualist who would later be known as the Public Universal Friend), who shielded them from Nátthrafn's magic with her own powers.

Saoirse and Branwen were not harmed by the mob of course. They were only women after all. In fact they were not even in the house when it all happened. So they lived on to have their own adventures, and horrors, in which Branwen became a vampire.

All this background will come into play eventually, as Branwen/Blood Raven will play a big role in January's future. Likewise Nátthrafn will return, as will Hexenhammer.

But anyway, if anyone could give me some pointers on Boston of this era I would be much obliged. I have some ideas for where things like the houses were. An original one in the North End next to a cemetery, where the catacombs were (and where Nátthrafn did his necromancy). Plus a mansion on Marlbrough street, near the Governor's Mansion where he and the women actually lived. But if I could nail down these locations better that would be great. Also, afterward Saoirse and Branwen moved out to Saoirse's father's house. He was a shiprwright, so I pictured him living near the docks. For now I figured his house was in the North End, on North Street.


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treydog
post Jul 10 2019, 12:03 PM
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This resource might help.

I chased a link from the collections page.


In particular, this 1786 version is close to the correct period and has some decent detail.

And this 1770's version has some nice detail.


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SubRosa
post Jul 10 2019, 03:10 PM
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Thanks! I found this page yesterday, that when zoomed in gives both a map and some details, like where the Governor's mansion was, and the schools. Sadly though, it is from 1722, and I can imagine a lot may have changed in the 50 years between it was made the events of my fiction.

The basic street layout has not changed though, and the names on these new maps are much easier to read. By comparing the newer maps, I can see where new streets have been added.

But I was hoping that besides maps, I could get some background info on society. Where did the poor people live, where did the rich ones live, etc... What were the neighborhood names. I know Beacon Hill and the North End, but can find very little else. For example what I have found on Beacon Hill is that it was next to the common, and seemed to be a low class district with hooligans and brothels. Then in another place I read of wealthy people building mansions there? The North End seems the same. I know it is the oldest part of the city, and it is ringed with wharves and shipyards. One thing I read was that again the wealthy built mansions there among the laborers and sailors. So again, wtf?

I know where the Governor's mansion is thanks to the site I linked to. I imagine that was a high class neighborhood. The next street over was even paved! *gasp* But I have no idea what the name of that neighborhood was. Or how much of the rest of the city was paved by the time of the 1770s. That is really the kind of stuff I am looking for. Where did the rich people live? Where did the poor people live? Where where the ethnic enclaves (if any).

I know that Saiorse's family was Irish, and that at this time period Boston had not become a great Scots-Irish stronghold yet. That would not happen until the 1800s. The Irish would have still been rare, and I know they were discriminated against by the Puritans. I read accounts of some them being driven out of other communities in New England, and being forced to settle on the frontiers, around Worcester.

What I have been working on for this story was that Saiorse's father was a shipwright, and due to this valuable skill his Puritan neighbors could overlook his Irish descent to some extent. But he would never have been able to live in high class town, or been part of high society. Natthrafn showed up pretending to be English gentry. He married into the family for money (as he had none), and in exchange he brought Saiorse's family into higher social circles, as befitted an Englishman of good blood. Natthrafn took that original stake and struck it rich owning ships and running sugar, slaves, and rum in the triangle trade.

So his second house, bought after he was rich, would have been in a high class neighborhood. I picked the same street as the Governor's mansion since it just seemed like it would be snob alley. But I could be wrong. I picked the North End for his original house before he got rich, and the same part of town for Saiorse's father, since it is nearest to the docks and shipbuilding industry. But again, I could be wrong here too.

I suppose it does not really matter, as who is going to really know if I am screwing up or not? I guess I am just a perfectionist. Still, I am hesitant because I just read The Ballad of Black Tom. It was a great character-driven piece. Far better in quality than the original Lovecraft story it was based on. But the author made several little technical errors. For example, he described the police as having M1911 Browning Hi Power pistols. The 1911 was a Colt of course, although it was designed by John Browning. But the Browning Hi Power was a completely different gun. He got the two of them mixed up into a single gun. He likewise gave them machine guns which had not gone into production yet. I would like to avoid making niggling little mistakes like that.


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SubRosa
post Sep 11 2019, 09:55 PM
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I just realized that since April I have written 111,000 words and change. All of them for the Stormcrow fic. I have not been this hot as a writer in a long time.


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Acadian
post Sep 11 2019, 10:14 PM
Post #694


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From: Las Vegas



SubRosa, I've found that inspiration sometimes comes from unexpected sources. So glad you've been motivated to grace us with the wonderful Stromcrow story! smile.gif


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SubRosa
post Sep 11 2019, 10:19 PM
Post #695


Ancient
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New ways to be motivated...


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mALX
post Sep 12 2019, 10:27 PM
Post #696


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From: Cyrodiil, the Wastelands, and BFE TN



QUOTE(TheCheshireKhajiit @ May 9 2019, 10:51 AM) *

QUOTE(Darkness Eternal @ May 5 2019, 01:58 PM) *

George R.R Martin said there are two different types of writers:

QUOTE
I think there are two types of writers, the architects and the gardeners. The architects plan everything ahead of time, like an architect building a house. They know how many rooms are going to be in the house, what kind of roof they're going to have, where the wires are going to run, what kind of plumbing there's going to be. They have the whole thing designed and blueprinted out before they even nail the first board up. The gardeners dig a hole, drop in a seed and water it. They kind of know what seed it is, they know if planted a fantasy seed or mystery seed or whatever. But as the plant comes up and they water it, they don't know how many branches it's going to have, they find out as it grows. And I'm much more a gardener than an architect.


He forgot to mention the type of writer who starts an epic series and then sells it halfway through to hack tv people and then goes on tour to ride the coattails of the show’s popularity when he should be writing.

FINISH THE DAMN BOOKS GEORGE!!



rollinglaugh.gif (and AMEN!) laugh.gif









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SubRosa
post Jan 12 2020, 03:18 AM
Post #697


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I am facing a plot conundrum. There are two major villains working together behind the scenes in the Stormcrow fic. One is Jan's extremely great-great-etc... grandfather Nátthrafn, who is pulling strings from beyond the grave. The other is a current, living family member of Jan's, who is working to summon/resurrect Nátthrafn. This family member is working up to gaining the skill and power they need to call up Nátthrafn by summoning Abyssals, creatures that exist where Nátthrafn is (literally, the Abyss).

I have decided that these summonings can be anchored to our world by a sacrifice. This makes them immune from being magically banished. They can only then be defeated by straight out killing them. This is why Blood Raven cannot just wave a hand and make them wink out of existence.

I am looking at two options for these sacrifices, animal or human. This makes a really big difference in the end. Because when the whole thing finally comes out, the family member will either be an animal killer, or an honest to goodness serial killer. The first will not gain a lot of attention. The second will draw international news, which will have major repercussions for January.

Option #1 - Animal Sacrifices. Because of this the summonings do not gain as much attention, until the Abyssals enter the public eye (eg. Chapter 4 Pride). Even then, the attention is concentrated on the monsters, not the family member. After the the final battle is won, Nátthrafn is blamed for all the summonings in the past. The family member has already met their fate, incarcerating them is not a consideration.

Option #2 - Human Sacrifices. This brings the murders to public attention. The one from the night of the Flying Dutchman fire (Chapter 3) is mostly ignored by the Detroit PD, who put it on their backburner. It is just one of hundreds of murders for them. The one from Ferndale Pride (Chapter 4) receives a lot of attention from the media, and Ferndale PD. Each successive summoning includes a human sacrifice, making the family member a serial killer.

After the final battle, January would want the conjurer to be publicly outed as the murderer of all the sacrificed people. Even though again, the family member is beyond being put in prison. Blood Raven argues against this, and insists that Nátthrafn take the blame. She reasons that for one, it will not make a difference to the families of the slain if the killer is identified as the family member or Nátthrafn. Justice was served in any event.

But more importantly, if the family member is identified as a serial killer, then January will never escape from the shadow of that. Not only will she be the subject of a heightened level of media scrutiny that will make her life as Stormcrow more difficult, but it will also poison her hopes of being a writer, as she will always be the author whose family member was a serial murderer. Finally, Blood Raven asks January to think of her other family members. Learning that their close relative is dead is bad enough. Learning that they were also a murderer would be even more crushing, and put them under so much more negative media scrutiny.

Finally she questions January's true motives. Is implicating the family member really a desire for honesty, or is it for one more stab at personal revenge against them?

January OTOH fears that if she covers it up now, the truth will eventually come out on its own, even if years later. Then she will be ruined for suppressing the truth. Blood Raven insists that they can keep it a secret, as only the two of them really know what happened. January says that Nátthrafn knows. Blood Raven insists that he will be telling no one from where he is. Besides, it was not the kind of thing he would think of. In the time he is from, it would not be a thing that would damage one's reputation after all.



I am waffling between the two options. I started with Option 2. Then changed things to #1. Now I am thinking of going back to #2 after all. It ups the stakes if humans are being sacrificed, and makes the conjurer a lot more villainous. But #2 makes the aftermath really messy. Serial killers get a lot of news. If the family member is officially implicated as the killer, I think it would really ruin January's chances as a writer. But maybe I am wrong. I really cannot name a single family member of a serial killer. But is that because these people tend to avoid public life? A writer gets attention, people look into who they are, and in the internet age, that is so easy. A single Google would tie January to the murdering conjurer. I think that would haunt her career forever. And I really do want her to be a writer. Granted, she could write under a pseudonym. But again, this is the information age. That kind of thing does not hold up like it once did.

January would really want them publicly outed. It is just the right thing to do. Also, the truth has a tendency to always come out eventually. She would prefer it come from her first, rather than blindside her later in life. Or even after she is dead. Not just from her sense of ethics and desire to look good. She is keenly aware that she is the first openly lesbian (and eventually openly trans) superhero. As a trailblazer, she knows she has to be absolutely perfect, for all the people who come behind her. If any will ever be able to come behind her.

Blood Raven might be able to convince her to put all the blame on Nátthrafn in any case. There are a lot of good reasons to do so. Not the least that ultimately Nátthrafn was the one engineering things, and the family member was basically his pawn. Blood Raven could even mind wipe January, so she does not know the truth. But she would never do that.

But keeping that secret would be emotionally devastating for January. Granted, as a writer this is fertile ground. This could lead January down a path to something like substance abuse, or cutting, or something else equally self-destructive. With an eventual redemption in the end. Perhaps even her learning to forgive their family member for the things they did.

But, I don't know if Jan could do it. I think her principles would win out, and she would want her family member publicly implicated. She might change her name afterward, or write under a pseudonym. Blood Raven could even take some control of the media spin, by making it clear that the family member was being controlled by Nátthrafn, and ultimately another victim. She is no friend of the media or the police, but Blood Raven would absolutely do that to protect January. Maybe that will be the route it goes.

Still, protecting her surviving family members from the media shame might win out with Jan. It is a conundrum.



Finally I have Option #3. Cut out the sacrifices - human or animal. This would be the simplest, and really the most like a comic book. I shy from that however, for precisely those reasons.


Option #4 is changing the Conjurer to someone who is not a family member. But this is really not an option. January being from a cursed bloodline is central to her story. That curse does not affect only her, but everyone she is related to. It has killed her ancestors in the past. That atavistic horror will always be there for her.


In any case, I could use ideas for options I am not seeing. Or ways the current options might go. Maybe I am overthinking it all, and having a family member implicated of murder should not be so damaging to Jan's literary career?


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Acadian
post Jan 12 2020, 08:26 PM
Post #698


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I would go with the human vs animal sacrifices. As you say, the stakes are higher and that is appropriate for an epic superhero story.

As far as the aftermath, there is indeed lots of fertile soil there for character development of both Stormcrow and Blood Raven. Having Crowgirl wrestle with the very questions you debate sounds like good stuff.

Now for the ultimate decision regarding handling the aftermath, Blood Raven is right for the following reasons:
- The mortal family member was indeed acting as a pawn for Nátthrafn and who is to say the dead spirit was not indeed controlling his ancestor? Meaning that the ancestor was somewhat of a victim as well.
- There is nothing to be gained from Jan exposing her family to the notoriety of having a serial killer in the family. As a super, she should shield her family from the side effects of her profession.
- The more scrutiny there is upon Jan’s family, the greater the chance of her identity being discovered – don’ want that.
- That Jan would feel her decision is the better of two less than ideal choices is very ‘real’ and emphasizes that everything is not always wrapped up tidy and without residual aftereffects.
- This path avoids complications regarding any writing career Jan may aspire to - as you have pointed out.

Jan is heavily influenced by her heart and passions. This is a great opportunity display the counterbalance of ‘head over heart’ counsel that she would likely be getting from both Blood Raven and Gadget. Though not in her nature, she might conclude that sometimes it is the better course.


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SubRosa
post Jan 12 2020, 08:33 PM
Post #699


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So far that is what I am thinking. Though I still keep waffling, and hoping I might see another option.

I have also thought of another idea vis a vis anchoring the summonings and making them immune from banishment. They could be grounded in our reality by instead using the Classical Elements in their conjuring. Air, Earth, Fire, and Water. So a pile of salt, a lit candle, a cup of water, things like that. The Abyssal itself would provide the Spirit. That would make it literally and metaphorically a part of our world. I think regardless of how it goes, the Conjurer will start with that, and move up to animal sacrifices. Then the final decision is if they go to human ones or not.


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treydog
post Jan 14 2020, 01:15 PM
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The human sacrifice by family member is the strongest story line- to me. And what it allows you to do is show (once more) January's strength of character. In my head, she will not dodge the "association"- but will simply say words to the effect of "Yes, that is true. And...?" Force the issue. If someone wants to imply that she (and perhaps other metas) is/are fatally flawed (bad pun, sorry)- they are going to have to come up with something better than- "Well- ya know- your relative did these awful things, so doesn't that mean you are awful too?"

She can point out that George Washington was called "The Town Burner" by the Native Americans because of his punitive (and possibly genocidal?) expeditions prior to the American Revolution- just as one example.

Anyway, in my mind, this story has been about Jan facing and overcoming adversity. This is another chance to show that.


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