Tes F'Ruum Building Info Options

[stargate525]

[quote=Alexander][quote=Troika]I just had an epiphany that should clear up one minor discussion we were having, over whether or not Morrowind's books should be included in the library.

How about if the print shop used as a fake front for the library had them there, so it was a print shop/book shop?[/quote]

nice idea

was just pondering on something similar.

and I think it would be easy to get that in the mod, you'd only need to copy the text from the books either from the CS or from the imperial library.


one other thing to consider.

the size of the library, sure there are many projects being done, and many books written but when talking about a library like you've been talking about so far I really imagine it to be huge, a huge arched chamber filled to the brim with books. but given the quantity there would either be a very small arched chamber that looks filled to the brim, a very large and very empty chamber of books or a chamber filled to the brim with many duplicates.

I wonder what your thoughts are about that or if anyone has even ever considered this.[/quote]

shhh. We might also sneak the daggerfall, arena, and obllivion books in there, so that would add up to well over 1000 just by themselves im betting.

[9of9]

You can probably get ten books on a decently sized shelf and, say, five shelves on a one-sided bookcase. So that's 20 bookcases for the entire 1000 Arena/Dag/Mor/Oblivion collection - fairly smallish ones at that. 10 if we're putting them back-to-back. We'd need a lot more than that to look more like Bodleian Library than Ottokar's.

Also, an idea came into my head. When I think of a really huge library, I think of high-arched ceilings and tall, rising bookcases stretching off towards the ceiling. Normal libraries/bookshops however have ladders to reach inaccessible shelves - how would we do that here? Hand out Levitation potions on entrance (or Telekinesis)? Of course, we could always limit it to short, stocky shelves like in Morrowind, but that's less fun and doesn't look as impressive in a huge hall.

[vaanic~one]

eh, how about having the whole wall plastered with books, with a sort of "Two floors on one floor system" AKA a balcony the whole way round the wall half way up, would that work?

[KhabaLox]

I'm not sure having potions or scrolls of levitation/tk would work. You would have to regen them somehow and I don't know if that is possible or not. Perhaps having an NPC who sells those spells cheaply could work, but then you have to have the appropriate skill.

Does anyone know if you can make ladders in the CS? I know there were no ladders in MW, but you should be able to make a really steep staircase that you can see through so it looks like a ladder. I also like the idea of vaulted ceilings and tall bookcases or a two story room with a balcony wrapping all around.

[9of9]

A balcony would work - but only around the walls. Depending on how wide the room is, there would probably still be a few shelves in the middle... then again it could be done sort of more upwards - have tall circular halls that rise up in four or five balconies at a time; would look very nice when you're standing at the bottom and looking up at the walls of books rising up into the darkness above

[Adanorcil]

I think that a library ladder could easily be modelled. Afterwards, it can probably be scripted to move the player upwards when he collides with it. (There even are collision detection functions in Morrowind.)

[Alexander]

[quote=KhabaLox]I'm not sure having potions or scrolls of levitation/tk would work. You would have to regen them somehow and I don't know if that is possible or not. Perhaps having an NPC who sells those spells cheaply could work, but then you have to have the appropriate skill.
[/quote]


or maybe after showing your members card at the door, you get a special item of some kind with a levitate spell enchanted.

and of course disabling teleporting to make sure no one can leave with that ring, then when you check out of the library you have to give back the ring else the door won't open,

a simple yet effective solution,.

[stargate525]

[quote=Alexander]
or maybe after showing your members card at the door, you get a special item of some kind with a levitate spell enchanted.

and of course disabling teleporting to make sure no one can leave with that ring, then when you check out of the library you have to give back the ring else the door won't open,

a simple yet effective solution,.[/quote]

perhaps we worry about that later once we actually get that many books yes?


I'm actually partial to a balcony with spiral staircases myself.

[Troika]

So is everyone happy with what has been discussed over the main hall and the front 'cover', considering how everyone seems to be moving onto to other subjects...

But spirakl staircases, and balconies, are always good ideas, and I say the more we cram into the library, the better it will be!

And a definite thumbs up to ladders, although it may not be necessary for them to be functional... If we don't end up with a vast amount of books, we could just have a fake upper section of books, just to give the appearance of more books...

[9of9]

Not necessarily fake... just duplicates, why?

Because I just can't wait to go in, cast an area 500 fireball and see them all fly in a glorious, Havok imbued, avalanche all around me

Then again, we might have framerate issues if that were the case :embarrassed:

[stargate525]

[quote=9of9]Not necessarily fake... just duplicates, why?

Because I just can't wait to go in, cast an area 500 fireball and see them all fly in a glorious, Havok imbued, avalanche all around me

Then again, we might have framerate issues if that were the case :embarrassed:[/quote]
hmmm, sounds fun.

troika, so what WAS discussed over the front cover and the main hall?

[vaanic~one]

about the ladders thing. We cannot have ladders for every single piece of wall, that would cram up the library, and we would end up not being able to actually able to get to the bottom part of the books.

So we would have to have about one ladder per wall, right? So we would have to make the ladder moveable in order for us to be able to get to the rest of the upper books. This is not a hard thing consideing that OB has a physics engine (phew!), but it is something I thought should be brought up.

as for the balconies. we cannot have ladders in conjunction with balconies. So the layout could be that half the rooms have balconies and half have ladders. perhaps in a routine way, which would make things look nicer.

[stargate525]

[quote=vaanic~one]about the ladders thing. We cannot have ladders for every single piece of wall, that would cram up the library, and we would end up not being able to actually able to get to the bottom part of the books.

So we would have to have about one ladder per wall, right? So we would have to make the ladder moveable in order for us to be able to get to the rest of the upper books. This is not a hard thing consideing that OB has a physics engine (phew!), but it is something I thought should be brought up.

as for the balconies. we cannot have ladders in conjunction with balconies. So the layout could be that half the rooms have balconies and half have ladders. perhaps in a routine way, which would make things look nicer.[/quote]

maybe a half balcony? Sorta like the one in Beauty and the Beast? I think I could pull that off.

[9of9]

[quote=vaanic~one]about the ladders thing. We cannot have ladders for every single piece of wall, that would cram up the library, and we would end up not being able to actually able to get to the bottom part of the books.

So we would have to have about one ladder per wall, right? So we would have to make the ladder moveable in order for us to be able to get to the rest of the upper books. This is not a hard thing consideing that OB has a physics engine (phew!), but it is something I thought should be brought up.

as for the balconies. we cannot have ladders in conjunction with balconies. So the layout could be that half the rooms have balconies and half have ladders. perhaps in a routine way, which would make things look nicer.[/quote]

As I mentioned before - balconies can in the end only go around walls. Depending on the size of the hall we could have balconies going up walls, yet we would still have space for a few tall bookshelves in the middle of it all. Hence, still the need for ladders of some sort.

[vaanic~one]

[quote="9of9"][quote=vaanic~one]
As I mentioned before - balconies can in the end only go around walls. Depending on the size of the hall we could have balconies going up walls, yet we would still have space for a few tall bookshelves in the middle of it all. Hence, still the need for ladders of some sort.[/quote]

Aha! that solves it!

[WillyBubba]

Troika, I love the idea for printing the old books as the front for the library. That'll be really easy to pull off as well. Just a bunch of copy and pasting.

I like the balcony thing as well. Perhaps a door to enter the main library, and at the opposite end is a set of staiors, leading to the second floor, which is only partial, as that is where the balconies are. So it'd look perhaps a bit like this:

________/ _________
IB BI
IB BI
IB BI
ISSSSSSS SSSSSSSSI
___________________
S = Stairs
B = Balcony
I and _ = Walls
/ = Main Doors

Not to scale or anything, but it gets the idea across. And we could duplicate the stairs and balcony, on the second floor, at the opposite end of the first flight, if needed. Ladders seem like quite a project to me... but I have limited scripting know. Perhpas Alexander's rental ring thing. Ahwell, plenty of time to figure that stuff out.

[vaanic~one]

I like that idea willybubba.

[Hukai The Wandering]

no one has said anything about how you get in in the first place so here i go! how about this?

The library is in trouble of being found out. Someone high up in the chain of command has issued an order for about 50 copies of a certain book to be met on a very strict deadline. Being as the printing press (isn't that mid-century?) is just a cover, they can only provide 15-20 of these book if the staff works round-the-clock. To gain adminsion to their myterious library, they ask you to find/steal/buy the remain 30-35 books so that they can fullfil their quota without suspicion. Upon delivery of the books (either in installments or all at the same time) you are then recognised as being worthy to enter.

Something like that...but why would they tell some random stranger about their being fake?

...

Mabye you get a option like "Threaten to reveal the library if you are not let in."

Hmm...

EDIT: I doubt it could be used but. I like the whole leveatation idea. It brings to mind and endless tunnel going up. The walls are circular and pack with books. Every now and then there is a circular balcony running all around the wall with a large hole in the middle. The balcony is filled with plushy chairs for reading. Afer each balcony, the book-lined walls keep rising. I'l make a quick sketch to show it but that's my other idea.

[jonajosa]

The library wasn't going to be a faction. However i have been exploring the thought of having to do some "Favor quests" for some guy who lives in the middle of the city and knows about the library and its treasures.

Heres what I have so far.

Lets say the Library goes in Anvil ok?

You walk around and a guy will aproach you outside a tavern. He asks you if you want to know a secret and natrualy you say "yes." So he rambles on and on about this fabled Library and its lost treasures. After a while of listening to his... information he finally tells you that he knows where this library is and how to get to it. However this information comes at a price. And that price would be a few personal favors for him.

First he tells you someone had accused him of having illegal books. So he asks you to get the guards of his back by planting a illegal book in his accusers house and telling the guards that you saw him acting wierdly in his house. They go check it out and find the book and take him to prison.

Next he wants you to get a book that he has wanted ever since his childhood but could never afford it. Apparently he still can't afford it and he wants you to steal it for him. Its in a manor on the rich side of town. Steal it and bring it back.

Last the guy gives you a simple task. Go to the park in the middle of town that night and wait for him to meet you there. Once he meets you there he takes you on walk towards the middle of town and outside a book store. He takes you inside and leads you to a wall covered by a tapestry. He moves it out of the way and behind it is a door. You both go through it and down a long stair case and go through another door.

You walk through and enter a high ceiling room with lights hanging everywhere to brighten the place up. He then walks infront of you and tells you the magic words. "Welcome to my library."

You see? The guy giving you the quests at the begining is actually the librarian and he's testing you to know if you should be the next librarian after he dies.

That i think would be the most spectacular begining to a mod like this.

[vaanic~one]

[quote=jonajosa]The library wasn't going to be a faction. However i have been exploring the thought of having to do some "Favor quests" for some guy who lives in the middle of the city and knows about the library and its treasures.

Heres what I have so far.

Lets say the Library goes in Anvil ok?

You walk around and a guy will aproach you outside a tavern. He asks you if you want to know a secret and natrualy you say "yes." So he rambles on and on about this fabled Library and its lost treasures. After a while of listening to his... information he finally tells you that he knows where this library is and how to get to it. However this information comes at a price. And that price would be a few personal favors for him.

First he tells you someone had accused him of having illegal books. So he asks you to get the guards of his back by planting a illegal book in his accusers house and telling the guards that you saw him acting wierdly in his house. They go check it out and find the book and take him to prison.

Next he wants you to get a book that he has wanted ever since his childhood but could never afford it. Apparently he still can't afford it and he wants you to steal it for him. Its in a manor on the rich side of town. Steal it and bring it back.

Last the guy gives you a simple task. Go to the park in the middle of town that night and wait for him to meet you there. Once he meets you there he takes you on walk towards the middle of town and outside a book store. He takes you inside and leads you to a wall covered by a tapestry. He moves it out of the way and behind it is a door. You both go through it and down a long stair case and go through another door.

You walk through and enter a high ceiling room with lights hanging everywhere to brighten the place up. He then walks infront of you and tells you the magic words. "Welcome to my library."

You see? The guy giving you the quests at the begining is actually the librarian and he's testing you to know if you should be the next librarian after he dies.

That i think would be the most spectacular begining to a mod like this.[/quote]

Hell yeah! Love that last bit, perhaps the quests should be of the challenging type though.