I dusted off my copy of Neverwinter Nights 2 a few days ago. I installed - or actually reinstalled it - a few months ago along with Neverwinter Nights 1. I played through most of NWN 1 back then with a dual-weaponed Fighter/Rogue named Kestrel.

Earlier this week I decided to take a crack at NWN 2. I found that I had never installed the two expansions, so I threw those on too (I have NWN1 Diamond Edition, and NWN2 Platinum). Then I discovered that my NWN2 version was not up to date, even though I had thought the Platinum edition was the final version. So I tried updating it through the built in updater. But Atari's server doesn't work anymore, so I cannot. I went looking online for the manual patches, but could not find them anywhere either. Though I did find a manual patcher program that would work if I had the patches. In the end I found NWN2 on Gog, and just bought it from them again. That gave me the final version of the game, which does not require the cd to be in the drive to play. Thank you Gog, for being reliable after the original publisher of the game refused to support their product.

This is what worries me about Steam, not to mention all modern games that require you to log into a server to authenticate before you can play your single player game. Are they still going to support games like Skyrim 10 or 15 years from now? Or are they going to shut those servers down for new games instead? Then we will have to either buy a DRM-free version of the game from Gog, or resort to pirates to make an illegal crack to play the game we legally bought.

Anyway, I rolled a new toon to beat the game with (yes, that is just for you Wyrd, in case you ever read this ). She is a Wood Elf named Antheia. I went with my old standby of a Ranger. Since Kestrel was a dual-wielder, I went the archer's path with Antheia. So far she has slogged her way through the swamp, Fort Locke, the graveyard, and all the side dungeons. A few minutes ago she and her crew stepped onto the docks at Neverwinter itself.

I experimented a bit with her Ranger animal companions. First I tried a wolf, because of their knockdown ability. But her Wolf Asena hardy ever knocked anyone down. So then I tried a boar (named Varahi), but that one did not do anything for me either. Finally I went to Artio, the brown bear. She isn't super either, but has managed to live through most of her battles, which is better than the other ones did. Thankfully you can resummon your companion if they die, so they don't really die.

Speaking of which, I have been using the NWN2 Character Editor to change her animal companion. It lets you edit most things about your character, but not everything. It doesn't allow you to edit your companions at all though Turns out you can edit all the companions too. When you go to the file open screen, you have to open each character - be it the player or companion - separately. The PC is the playerlist.ifo file, and the companions each have their own *.ros file. It requires installing Java, which did not thrill me.

I am using NENs Final Face Head Hair Combination Project, which adds a few heads and bunch of hairs from Oblivion, including our old favorites by Ren and Corean. There are not that many mods for NWN2 on the Nexus though, but I did find links to a bunch of them in this post - just click on Show Spoiler to see them all. I downloaded the Easy Mod Compilation from near the top. I am using the extra heads from that as well, but I am still not really thrilled with what is out there, at least for the elf faces.

The Compilation does come with a really handy little mod that allows you to multi-class your companions. It is the three loose .xml files in the zip file. I used it to multi-class Neeshka to a Swashbuckler/Rogue, which seems perfect for her.

Speaking of multi-classing, I just multi-classed Antheia as a Sorcerer as well. That will allow her to eventually become an Arcane Archer (a Prestige Class). She just needs a few more Ranger levels to get her Base Attack Bonus higher. Being a Sorcerer gives her a few arcane spells in addition to the few Ranger spells she has. She took one that gives a +20 to her attack rolls, along with a Color Spray - which I have always liked. Since she is usually the first in the party, the latter makes for an excellent opening move when entering a room. Being a Sorcerer also gave her a Familiar. She chose a cat named Sekhmet. So now she has a bear and a cat. Since Elanee is also in the group, she has a badger companion. So now there are four people and three animals, making quite the army tramping around the Sword Coast.

What a superb tour guide you are of games I have not played and may never get to! I think I understand your frustration with old games. A couple years ago I tried to get Diablo II going again on my newer machine and ran into tons of problems. Lots of research and tweaks fixed most of them, but not good enough to happily play. Sounds like gog is sort of an answer for those kinds of things regarding older games?

Anyway, your game and character look fabulous!

Gog.com is the best thing to happen in computer gaming for years. They take old games whose source codes have been released to the public (basically that is when the developer gives up the legal rights to them, because the games are so old that they don't make money selling them anymore). They update the games to install and run on a modern computer, and often throw in extras like soundtracks and artwork.

At the same time they strip out all the DRM schemes, which often cause games to not work at all on PCs. So unlike Steam games that require you to log into Steam to play them, or EA games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect that require you log into their servers, or Diablo 3 that requires you to log into Blizzard's servers, you download the game from Gog, install it, and never have to log into anyone's servers or have a disc in the drive to play it.

They are owned by the same indie developer that makes the Witcher games. They are like the old school game publishers such as EA or Activision, but without all the Evil. Gog is a game company made for gamers, rather than to exploit gamers.

Edit to add: Here is a good article about Gog

Wow! That pic of your character was almost enough for me to consider getting this game! It looks awesome!

I may have to click on that gog link at some point. If only I didn´t just get a job....

SubRosa, thanks for editing in that article. You've convinced me, I think, that if I ever get the itch to play an older game again, I'll go to gog.

I think Buffy would feel at home in the Neverwinter Nights games. There are no horses to ride, and sometimes sniping from very long distances can be impossible because the game forces you to talk to many of the key plot point villains before fighting them. But the rules are very friendly to elf arcane archers, to the point of there actually being an Arcane Archer prestige class. The companions have been rather entertaining so far, especially Neeshka and Khelgar, who are lots of fun when they start trading insults.

Now that I have gotten farther into NWN2, I am noticing some things I do not like. The camera can be a pain in the rear. Like Tomb Raider, it has a habit of putting itself inside of walls or roofs, so you cannot see anything until you move it around. I never had any problems with the camera in NWN1.

Spells can be hard to cast. Opening your spellbook, clicking on the spell, and then clicking on your target clears the spell from your memorized spells list rather than casts it. Which is really frustrating in the middle of the fight. So you have to either move the spell from your book down to the hotbar at the bottom of the screen, or pull up the quickcast bar, and clutter your screen with yet another UI element. But even then, clicking on a spell in either tends to make it automatically go of on you. It seems you have to left click your target, then right click on your spell in the hotbar, and then it will.

I was very disappointed in my Color Spray too. It takes so long to actually go off, then all the bad guys have long since moved out of the way. Likewise the other spell that adds +20 to hit takes so long to cast, the battle is usually almost completely over before it goes off. I just fired up NWN1 and created a Sorcerer to test with, and her spells are so much easier to cast, and a lot quicker to go off. One thing I like about NWN1 is that I can left click on a target, and it brings up a radial wheel menu of things I can do to it. From there I can pick the spell I want to cast on them. It means going through a lot of nested elements, so its best to pause the game while doing it. But I can cast all my spells that way, without cluttering up the UI even more, or accidentally deleting them.

So far I have to say that while NWN2 has prettier graphics, and adds more classes and races, I think NWN1 is the better game. But I will keep trying with NWN2, maybe I will warm up to it, or find some mods to work around my issues.

Ok, I fixed the spellcasting issue. There was an option I had to un-tick that made spells automatically target whatever was selected with a left click. Now they work the same as they did in NWN1.

Antheia has moved farther along in the game, and picked up Qara as a follower. She is a Sorcerer, and I have to say, wow. She can literally clear a room with just one fireball. Very impressive. Given that I can usually rest between fights, she can bring that to the table nearly every battle. Fireballs and other area effects spells seem to only harm enemies, which is an added bonus. This makes me want to play a Sorcerer.

Oh, good news on the spellcasting problem! I'm starting to get intrigued by NWN now. . . .

Gog has both NWN1 & 2 for only $25 if you buy them together. I'd say that is definitely a good deal.

I had a lot more fun playing NWN2 today than I did yesterday, so that is good. I am now farther in the game than I ever was before.

Another thing that is very different between games is the way the world is laid out. NWN1 was done similar to the Diablo games. Each outdoor "level" is a big square area with all sorts of stuff. Each level has any number of exits at the map edges that lead to other levels. You move through the world by transitioning from one outdoor level to the next through these points at the map edges.

NWN2 also has waypoints at the map edges, but instead of directly leading you to another, adjacent level, they take you to a world map. On the world map you can select the place you want to go to next. It is a pretty standard thing in Bioware and Obsidian games. The KOTOR games do it, Dragon Age Origins, Fallout 1 & 2, and so on.

While it is faster to move around the world the NWN2 way, I kind of prefer the NWN1 way. It feels more - dare I use the word - immersive.

Another thing is that like Baldur's Gate 1, NWN1's outdoor levels are huge. They are big square areas filled with lots of stuff to discover, kill, and/or loot. Much of it is not related to the main quest of the game at all. It is just extra content you can ignore or explore as you choose. NWN2's outdoor areas are much smaller, and the content is almost always directly related to the story. For example, early in the game you get a quest to go to clear out a bandit camp and rescue the people they are holding hostage. The only thing on the map is the camp. In NWN1 or Baldur's Gate 1 the same camp would have taken up a quarter of the map, and the rest of the map would have other stuff in it.

Now there are side quests in NWN2, and a few optional areas you can journey to on the world map and explore. But so far the optional areas are very few, and like the other levels, relatively small.

So what I am trying to say is that NWN2 is much more tightly focused on the story of the game than NWN1. NWN1 is not as open a world as BG1, but it does give you the feel of a more open place, and has more non MQ stuff in it.

When I was BG'ing, I'm trying to think why I never started NWN. I'm sort of recalling that I somehow got it in my head that NWN was an online game? Sounds like I was quite wrong.

There was another game called Neverwinter Nights that was an online MMO back from 91 - 97. It was on America Online, and I think it was one of the very first MMOs ever. So that is probably what got you confused.

Then in 2002 Bioware came out with the Neverwinter Nights that I am playing, and later Neverwinter Nights 2 followed it. These are single player games. But they also has a multiplayer component, so you can play online with others if you want. It isn't an MMO where millions of people log into a company's server. Instead it is more like Vampire The Masquerade, where one person acts as the Game Master, and their computer acts as the server, and a handful of other people log into it. Or a website might even have an actual server of their own hosting players. I never bothered playing online myself.

Just to make things even more confusing, there is another game called Neverwinter that is an MMO that came out just recently.

Tonight I created another NWN2 character. Meet my Drow Paladin Sephiroth. I was originally going with a name of an Underworld goddess like Allatu or Akka, but after choosing that hair, it had to be Sephiroth.

Welcome to your Drow Paladin! She looks great. The graphics and scenery in that screenshot are stunning! Is that NWN2 vanilla? Holy pigs, grass and trees if it is - that's a great looking game!

I'm like you, I wonder why I never started NWN, it was definitely on my games-to-play list back then. But maybe my computer wasn't able to handle it or maybe I discovered original FOs before NWN and I moved to them, leaving Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale (and NWN) behind.
The game looks great, though, I'm looking forward for more updates.

That is the vanilla game in those pics. Except for the character's head, which is from a mod. The only mods I am using are one that adds more heads and hairs, and a few other minor ones. Both the NWNs are fun games, and definitely worth giving a try. Especially given how low the price is these days. Though if you do buy them, get them from Gog, since Atari stopped supporting them.

Oh wow on the unmodded background - that is some very nice background graphics compared to BG.

Tonight my newly created Sephiroth won the Harvest Cup, and fought off the monstrous attackers attacking the village. Then she went to retrieve the mysterious shard that the attackers were after. She was actually able to talk her way past the lizard men in the final room, which was rather nice. All those points I put into Diplomacy worked! So too did starting her out with a high Charisma (17 if I recall).

A few more pics from tonight's gaming.

With the pigs

After the battle

Now Sephiroth has a bigger sword

Treasure

Now if I can just find a 20 foot katana, like that of her namesake

Such pixies! Me wanna play!!

I saw these on your other thread, but note here that you've added the monster katana! Maybe she needs a light saber? Or perhaps a pet shark with freakin' laser beams coming out of its head (that shark bit is a SubRosa quote from somewhere).

Sounds like Star Wars and AVGN to me...

Beautiful shots, I like the one with the pigs the most.

Sharks With Fricken Laser Beams!



Alien Versus Geriatric Nurses?



As Winston Churchill said: "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."

I HEARD THAT!

Well, she's gotta tape up her monitor, grind up some skilz, get all immersed and beat the game!

I had hoped that invoking the T-Word might lure you back!

I am having fun playing a paladin. You do not get the same amount of Feats as the straight Fighters, so lag behind a bit on the score, especially Cleave/Great Cleave which Sephiroth has not been able to take yet. But the extra perks make up for it, especially in the coolness factor. One of the early bonus class Feats allows you to add your Charisma bonus to all saving throws. Likewise the Smite Evil power allows you to add your Charisma bonus to your attack roll. The Lay On Hands lets you heal your Charisma bonus x your level in points. I created Sephiroth with an 18 Charisma, so I am getting the most of it. Ooops, I created her with a 17 Charisma, but she wears a cloak that gives her a +1 to Charisma, raising it to 18.

Being immune to disease is nice too, as is being able to cure it. It seems whenever you fight undead in this game, you get diseased, over and over again. I went through about 8 Healing Kits in the Graveyard just curing diseases before getting the Cure Disease power.

The Turning Undead has been great too. It really works! In BG turning usually made some of them run away. Meaning I would just have to chase after them to kill them. But in NWN2 I am killing skeletons outright when I turn. The ones not smited freeze in their tracks, which is really nice. They cannot attack unless you get next to them, and you don't have to chase after them. It is the best of both worlds.

Yay for Paladins!

Turning the Undead

What a great shot. Nice capture of the effect and Seph looks great (still liking her armor/tabard alot).

I agree that in BG, turning undead was not that necessary - but it was fun! And only clerics really had the juice to do it at higher levels. Happily, BG II provided paladin kits - my fave was the inquisitor - he was focused on the biggest threat in the game - enemy mages. With four spells, you can bust up any shields or mischief that an enemy mage can throw at you - and the inquisitor could cast two of them (true sight and dispel magic) as special powers. For those awesome powers, he had forsaken turning undead and laying on of hands.

Sweet pixie!

By golly (sorry for stealing your catchphrase, Acadian), if I only had more time I´d get this game!

But then you would have to create a new character!

Or perhaps Lothran could make the journey to the Sword Coast?

It would be a new game entirely and then creating one is ok

Maybe Lothran would make an appearance there. I think he´d fit in quite nicely

That's indeed one great shot of Turning Undead. Which reminds me when I played BG for the 1st time, my English wasn't good back then, I was 12 or 13 years old, and I thought that Turning Undead means that they'll literally turn around. That's why I never used it because what's the point if they'd just "turn around".

Some pics of today's gaming:

Here is how I normally play the game

Sephiroth's Druid Companion Elanee's animal companion is now a Deinonychus

Of course Elanee can still summon a Dire Wolf

In the thick of it

Here is a current pic of the team

A bad day to be a bad guy

Yet another series of amazing pics!

I really like all the colours

In addition to my comments on your other thread, whut he sed:

The Dire Wolf shot is my favorite, it has some special energy and the wolf just looks stunning.

I was just released from the hospital after suffering from a seizure brought on by SubRosa's flagrant and excessive vocabulary abuse. But my heart condition has stabilized now. I just need to avoid reading dumb words on the internet, my doctor tells me. He tells me that reading gaming forums on a daily basis shortens a person's lifespan by five to ten years. He has the People Magazine article to prove it, too. "The hell with that," I tell him, "I've got the constitution of an ox. My Grandfather read five gaming forums a day and he lived to be almost thirty."

Well, anyway, cerebral hypoperfusion prevented me from properly replying last time. Neverwinter Nights 1 holds a special place in my affections. It's the game that showed me what roleplaying was all about.

After I beat the game with my first toon after I finished the game with my first character I made a second character, a peasant girl who idolized Aribeth. She became a Paladin and wielded a Bastard Sword because that's what her idol did. She even saved up to buy a ring that once belonged to Aribeth. That was my first-ever roleplaying character.

I'm not fond of NWN2 though. Obsidian forces a primitive "good" or "evil" choice on us before they'll allow us into Blacklake. Alas, because I roleplay with a modicum of sophistication almost none of my characters fit into Obsidian's rigidly Manichean worldview. Most of my characters won't work for The Man but they don't want to involve themselves in extortion either. So that's the end of that. I've tried to play the game twice and I am forced to stop at exactly the same point in the story both times. I've never gotten out of Act I.

I am not a fan of Obsidian.

Glad to hear your brain is feeling a little better. I think the best medicine is more exposure. It is like what George Carlin says about people using antibacterial this and that. By never exposing ourselves to bacteria, our bodies have lost our natural resistance to them, so we just get even sicker when that 1% of germs gets through our soap. When I was a kid, we never worried about washing our hands or swimming in the lake. And I turned out just fine! *cough, cough, cough...*

I am still slogging through NWN2. But I find I liked NWN1 better as well, though for different reasons. I don't mind the choice to become a lawman or a criminal so much, especially as I am playing a paladin. But it would be nice to have a third, less polarized choice.

What bothers me most about NWN2 is the way companions are forced upon you. In the first game they would just hang around inside one of the main buildings, and you could go over and talk to them at your leisure. You could recruit whoever you liked, and ignore anyone you didn't. But in NWN2 the game forces every companion into your party, and you literally cannot get rid of them until you have gone through the next part of the game.

It really rankled me with Bishop, who I cannot stand. He isn't Chaotic Evil, he's Chaotic Annoying. I literally used a cheat code to remove him from the game. That came back at me later though, as I got stuck at a point where there was a cutscene with him, and since he wasn't there anymore, it wouldn't start, and I couldn't continue. So I had to cheat code him back into the game. The really pathetic thing is that he didn't contribute anything at all to the plot. So why the F did you force him on me Obsidian?

Another person who likes George Carlin. You are a winner!

I was on an Obsidian rampage yesterday. I wrote a post on the official forums suggesting that Obsidian was over-rated. My email notifications tell me that I got four replies within the next hour. That must be some kind of personal best for me. Pissing off four people in one hour is no small achievement. I haven't had the nerve to read them. I imagine they're full of slander against my ancestry, references to my personal grooming habits and sly insinuations about my sexual orientation.

Despite my catty attitude, I actually think Obsidian is a good developer. I really do think they do quality work. It's just that their game design philosophy is not one that I am comfortable with. They seem to be all about control. It seems to me that they specialize in controlling the player's experience. I like freedom. I like to go off in my own directions. I just don't think I'll ever feel completely comfortable with an Obsidian game, as good as they are.

Well, shoot. This thread is making me want to re-install Neverwinter Night 1 now. Thanks a lot, Subbie. I need this like I need another cerebral hypoperfusion. I have, like, six or seven games I've bought off of Steam that I haven't gotten around to playing yet. *...facpalm...*

I have noticed the same thing about Obsidian. It was really glaring in FONV, where they took an open world franchise, and tried to make it as absolutely linear as possible by either blocking areas off with collision boxes (invisible force fields that prevent you from moving through them - if you open up the GECK you will see them all over the place), or by filling them up with super powered monsters that your starting character cannot survive. So no one starts an FONV game and heads straight to Vegas. They always go south along the highway to Primm. To do otherwise is simply suicide.

Talking about Neverwinter Nights 1 has prompted me to roll a new NWN1 toon to grind up and beat the game with. Veleda is a Sorcerer, my first mage character in one of old D&D computer games (The NWNs, BGs, IDs, and so on). Here sidekicks are Morrigan, a Faerie Dragon (I love the sparkles she leaves in her wake), and some dude from the tutorial who is a temporary companion.

Mhm, she's pretty but is she vanilla or somehow modded? I'm asking because her armor is quite revealing, in a positive way of course.

She is vanilla, mostly. The outfit is a vanilla one. I am using a mod that allows you to change the appearance of different parts of your attire, swapping out meshes and textures. But you can only pick from the things in the vanilla game. She was originally wearing a long yellow gown, which I swapped parts around to make the pantsuit thing, which seems much more practical for adventuring in.

Nice to see you taking a mage approach to NWN. That screen (for some reason) looks rather Morrowindesque to me. Partly the characters and partly Velada's outfit perhaps. Or I'm just crazy.

I know what you mean, because I was thinking it too. It is the heads I think. Like in Morrowind, in NWN1 you pick from a number of heads to use, instead of being able to change the eyes, brows, noses, etc... Since the games are from the same era, they have about the same (lack of) polygons. So they look pretty much alike.

I am giving Neverwinter Nights 2 another try. Hopefully I can play the main campaign all the way through this time. I was inspired to port Persephone over to play, and had to do a lot of tinkering.

Importing a custom portrait was easy. It just has to be in a .tga format, at 128 x 128 pixels. You put it in your Neverwinter Nights 2\Portraits folder (not the Override folder). Then in the game open up your character sheet and double click on the picture, and it will let you change it.

I gave her a lot of feats that mimic the powers that undead have in this game: immunity to poison, fear, paralysis, and so on. That was a long list, but worked out fine. Persephone is mostly a fighting type, but she also uses some magic, most notably summoning Darryl. I originally tried going the Fighter/Sorcerer route with her. But she would have to take Sorcerer up to level 8 before she could learn the Animate Dead spell. That was way more than I wanted to put into a magic class. The Wizard was no better. Then I gave dual-classing as a Cleric a try. It turns out that by taking the Undeath Domain, Persephone was able to gain Animate Dead as a feat at 2nd level. And by taking the Death Domain, she got a Shadow she could summon at 1st level.

So now she is a 1st Level Fighter/2nd Level Cleric. I will probably be putting most of her levels into Fighter from here on out. Though I might still take a few Cleric ones to improve her summoning later on. She is my first Fighter character, and wow, even at first level in that class she is awesome. Power Attack + Cleave = a swath of dead monsters behind her.

Persephone in Faerun

She still has a big sword

She can summon Darryl (on the left)

And his other brother Darryl (on the right)

It's probably best if he didn't have any children anyway...

I loved seeing some shots from NWN2 as I have only played BG1, BG2 and Icewind Dale from the D&D stuff. It sure looks like NWN2 took a huge leap in terms of graphics and such! No more tiny figures on tiny green circles. Persephone (and big sword and Darryl) made the transition nicely! The last shot looks a bit Morrowindesque – just missing mushroom houses.

I'm looking forward to seeing Persephone adventures in this new land!

I learned this the hard way, got stuck with all my saves in a giant radscorpion nesting ground on my virgin exodus from Goodsprings heading north from the cemetary (on the 360, so couldn't console a safe exit). Finally ended up starting a new game, lol.





@ SubRosa - these shots are amazing, I never realized how good this game actually looked!

Judging from Rosa´s pixies, Neverwinter seems just like my kind of game! If I only had energy and devotion to delve into a new franchise that is...


Sweet Jeebus!

What does your brain look like if you take an open world game where the player has basically total freedom to do whatever, and make it more linear than Super Mario Bros??