Being the newbie around here I have read some of several writer's contributions and all that has been said is absolutely true, you all have incredible talent but even more than that, as I read the comments in each thread the one thing that is constant is the wonderful support you give each other.

Minque your ability to put a picture to words is incredible, do not doubt yourself! You have a true gift and speaking from experience, allowing yourself the freedom to put your heart on a page sets your spirit free. It allows you the ability to release into space the experiences that you would not be able to share otherwise. Your pen is waiting word master, and your fans are frothing at the mouth for another dose to quench their addiction to your art.

Trey, thank you for inviting me to this wonderful world!!!!

No no no! You mustn't quit! As others have said--no competition. We cooperate! Each of us adds our own unique touch to this forum with our stories--together we create a beautiful tapestry full of life with our characters, and if one thread is lost, the whole thing comes unraveled. Don't pressure yourself, of course, but likewise never give up! I'm sure all of us feel discouraged from time to time, and we all feel like we can't compare to each other at times. But we are a community of writers, each with his or her own thread to add to this exquisite tapestry. So, please do not feel so discouraged, dear.

Essentially I'm just going to echo the above - there's a reason I post here and only here. The internet is full of writing places where there's competition and a rather unpleasant atmosphere, maybe good for development (but probably not) and certainly no fun. Chorrol is different, there is useful criticism but there isn't the competitive element, just cooperative.

One thing I will add though is that it's been two years since an update - that itself can be stressful. Getting back to something that's been left is daunting, at least I find it to be. If you keep finding yourself meaning to, but not quite doing it, I'd suggest setting a time when you're going to write some more and not let RL get in the way, then just write. It doesn't have to go up, but it will get the thing flowing again. Even writing a short sidepiece can help get back in the mood of the story, and in the mood for writing.

Certainly I have a date set for getting back to it once I'm finished exams... otherwise I never will.

And if I might be so bold as to add one other thing, the same thing I've been saying since 2005...

There's only one person who ever has doubts Minkey - about your story, your ability, about your way of making Serene a compelling, thoughtful, layered character. And that's you. Don't doubt yourself. Those same people you say make you feel, I don't know the right word, intimidated maybe? Those are the same people who react with pleasure and joy when you've updated your story in the past. So...(to continue this increasingly laboured point ) if our forum writers here know their stuff, as you say, maybe you do as well....

SO GET BLOODY WRITING!!!

I, for one, want to know what happens next!



p.s. Mind you, it occurs to me that I'm a fine one to bleedin' well talk. I can't even remember the last time I wrote something here. Maybe we both need to get our backsides into gear

Hi, I wanted to at least finish Chapter One of Serene of Cyrodiil before I spoke up.

I can imagine a lot of reasons why a writer would put a story aside and not return to it. RL gets busy, and they might move on to other interests. But if you still want to continue Serene’s story, let me add my voice to the chorus encouraging you to do so. This community amazes me. Just look at the number of characters who are able to move through different writers’ stories. I’m guessing it takes a lot of respect and co-operation to accomplish that! What a group of thoughtful, generous, supportive, inspiring individuals. All brought together (in this forum at least) when someone writes a story. The Writer Sub Forums are like treasure chests to me. I would love to know there is more to anticipate from you, Minque!

This!!!!

Its been far too long since I updated. So I get on and start typing...but then I realize just how long its been and it gets harder to do. Of course I can't walk away from it. I think about it all the time, especially the specific plot lines and how to arrange certain things so I hop back to it... and then realize its been so long and the vicious cycle continues.

One of my biggest issues is the "What if I've lost my touch?" repeating itself in my head. No matter how many times I read and fix it doesn't seem to be as good as previous chapters. So I figure I'll read the other stories and draw inspiration...but I'm sooooo far behind those too! -sob-

That would be the internal editor of doom. There are a few solutions, I believe Haute was rather forceful with hers during natwrinimo (or whatever the acronym is), I'll let you find the metaphor...

But I'd recommend just writing, read over it later - it'll probably be fine and if not then rework it or just lose it - either way it gets things going again. Failing that write something related, or not.

I believe I've posted links here before, some of them have good articles. The best one I've tried though, if you're really stuck, is to write something you'd never normally dream of writing. Me? I'd never write romance so if nothings coming, especially if it the editor getting in my way, I go and write something racy (and promptly delete it because it's dreadful). It's not the product which matters though - it's the utter shock to the little voice which says "this is no good" and makes it quiet so I can write things I do enjoy. Give it a go, I'd like to see more Champion of Madness.

The metaphor he refers to goes to the relationship I have with my inner editor. I tend to see it as the BDSM kind, with my inner editor being the Dom. Not that I like it (I don't, particularly), but that's just the way it works out.

But during Nanowrimo (the correct acronym), I basically reversed the tables on him and left him bound and gagged like the classic gimp in the corner. It worked well - after a false start, I scrapped the first attempt after a week and started a whole new one. It was wonderful - I wrote 100,000+ in about 21 days. And in reviewing it, it wasn't half bad, either. Two of my friends read it and told me that it was pretty good. I'm waiting to hear from a third.

Discipline is important, I've found. Just write something every day. Whether or not it moves your story forward, or even has anything to do with your story, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you are writing.

Olen has the right of it too - if you don't like what you are writing, scrap it. Forget about it. Move on to something else. Be ruthless.

The fact that I am a frequent offender on the "I can't write anymore" blotter was one of the things that prompted this thread.

And, although you seem to have already found your muse once more (YAY!)- I will still second what Olen said-

The only REAL way to get past writer's block is to write your way out of it.

To be a writer- you have to write. Find that "moment" or "place" or "chronoclastic infundibula" by enacting your particular "writing ritual." For me, that means going back to a spiral notebook and a blue G2 pen. The entire sensory experience of writing that way reminds me of why I love it.

The words are not important at that point- the act of putting them on paper is. The "right" words will come with time; if there are NO words, the right ones cannot emerge, either.

Or someone could threaten you with a balding spell like I did Treydog, fixed his problem real quick....
hahahahaha

A

Awwww.....thank you all for most encouraging comments! (Yeah Burnie! You and I reeeeeeally should take ourselves by the collar and START WRITING, right?)

Anyway....as usual my mentor, my idol, sweet Treydoggie just put a spell on me...(.or was it forwarded from Athynae?)

And so I've sort of started outlining chapter 8. I think what stopped me has been that I do have a great deal of the chapter already written, but there has been a deep river between where Serene is now and how to get to the point that I already have written about!
But the spell has showed me a way.....yay

So beware and be very afraid ( ) Serene will soon be back!

PS goddamnit, such a bad english, plz forgive me

Congrats to everyone who has picked up the proverbial pen again and graced the forum with your talents again!!

Yes mALX and where is YOUR next installment????? HHMMM???? We are waiting.

Agreed--I like what Olen said about writing it out--that's something I've discovered a short time ago when I was going through that ghastly Block... But I got around it much quicker than usual by that advice!

Also, writing everyday is something I would have to endorse--even if I can't write out a story, I write ideas, and sort of brainstorm--if only to keep the creative juices flowing! I've noticed that those times when that dreadful "B" word strikes is after I've had a day or two of not being able to write or even to think about writing.

RL can sometimes get so busy we tend not to think about our stories, and what not--but we should, if we are able, set aside even five or ten minutes just to brainstorm ideas. Or think about it while you're sitting down to lunch--even if you can't write it down, just thinking about it--how you would write it--helps tremendously.

Anyway--now that I've gotten all of that out! *whew, sigh of relief!* Minque--I am glad we all convinced you to keep writing. As a writer, never forget--you must write for yourself, not for anyone else. Share it with us, because we love it! But never write for someone else--do it because you want to do it, because you are moved to do it. I have not read much of Serene's story, but what I've seen is excellent. Once I get caught up on all the other stories I've already been reading, I intend to pick up a couple more to read, and Serene's is one of them at the top of my list!



My dear, you sound like my kind of person! lol. Love it!

GAAAAH! (Whew! No hair balding spells threatened ... yet !!! )

Writer's block, how I loathe thee!

So what do you do about a story that has two very separate story lines? Should they get different threads? Or just keep them combined?

I am going to answer a question with a question. (Don't you hate that?) Wait- that's TWO questions!

How close are the story lines? Will they "come together" at some point in the future? If so- one thread should do.

Depends on how close they're meant to be to begin with. If they have little to do with each other, there might be the most minuscule of cross-overs, but if they rely on each other (Say, Arena and Battlespire), then I could imagine having a combined story.

I think I just found the cure for writer's block! I went on vacation for two weeks, and I've come back to more new material than I've ever seen in that space of time. Slow down, please, I need to catch up!

Friends!

I...think I got over it now! The Block I mean! Wish me luck, I have material out for editing now and if it comes through....it will be POSTED!

Yaay minque!

3 CHEERS!!!!! HIP HIP HORRAY!!!! HIP HIP HORRAY!!!! HIP HIP HORRAY!!!!! That is news worth toasting with vintage wine!!!!!!!

No. No. No. NO! Minque, having read your work I can assure you that ‘if it comes through’ should never make it past your internal BS detector. You are a writer . . . plain and simple. Your recent block did not arise from an inability, only disinclination. I implore you to have as much confidence in yourself as the rest of us have in you. Congrats and I look forward to seeing the new stuff!

I was planning on making a topic, but here seems the appropiate place to ask. I am planning a story that will expand for four centuries. Revolving around two vampiric characters who were born with vampirism into a noble Cyrodilic family. While in their home, they are raised and instructed in the ways of the Order. I got those chapters written down, but as for story, I am totally lost. I had ideas of throwing in a College of Cyrodiil lore and Arcane University as a potential story arc in the first century of the story.

What, as readers, makes you interested in a story?

What pulls my interest more than anything else are good characters. Make them believable: with goals, likes, dislikes, faults, and and strengths. Which is to say, like real people. Nothing is more boring than an uber character, or one who is otherwise too happy, or too nice, or has everything go their way all the time. Make them people that we can somehow identify with, and feel empathy for, and you will have succeeded. Lady Syl does a wonderful job of this with her character of Syl in her fan fic. Syl is a character that can be pretty well described in one word: evil. Yet in LS's tale, we find ourselves feeling sorry for her as she suffers horror after horror, and cheering for her when she strikes back.

I see. And yes, I have read most of Lady Syl's work, "Memoirs of a Madwoman" on the other Bethesda forum. And I usually try to justify "darker" characters. I was always a staunch supporter of such things, but I don't want to be too selfish when writing a story. Syl's story was superb compared to other fan made stories I've read. But we can only do so much with "Anti-heroes". Since the majority of people can't compare with power-hungry megalomaniacs with justified goals as to why they are that way.

I agree with SubRosa. Character is always a good place to start. As long as the characters are interesting I find that I will follow them just about anywhere. I like the idea that you plan to go with, especially the part about them being born with vampirism instead of contracting it the usual way. I think that sets you up for some very interesting views of the characters toward their vampirism.

However I would point out that four centuries seems like a long time to spend without falling into gratuitous angst. There is nothing more tedious than the whining of a vampire at the emptiness of spending eternity alone, especially when all he/she has to do to end it is step outside in the morning.

I see. And true, true. Vampire stories can get very tedious, dealing with various scenarios well-known to us such as vampire falling in love with woman, or vampire not accepting his vampirism or vampire trying to save the world. But don't worry, I got extensive knowledge on Elder Scrolls vampires, more than the usual person

And besides, Cyrodilic vampires can survive in the sun, if well fed. But thanks for the response. I will get to it.

Edit: Oh, one more thing. When you guys write stories, do you update your story by going along and adding new scenarios, or do you already have it all written down and just post regularly?

It can go either way depending on the author and the story. When I first started writing mine, I had nearly 20 chapters written before I began posting. I kept writing a little at a time while I was posting the early chapters.

Now at this point I try to write about a chapter ahead of my post. I have about a month's worth of posts already written, and am trying to find the time to write the next chapter. So it's a little of both at the present moment for me.

Some people write a segment, then post it, and then start writing the next segment, etc... Some people write an entire story from start to finish before posting. And finally some like me are in the middle, and write an entire chapter (say 10,000 words perhaps), and chop it up into individual posts of 2-3k words each. Then they make a post every two or three days until it is all up. I now keep a posting schedule of twice a week, on Mondays and Thursdays. Acadian posts once a week, on Fridays. The chapter I currently have in the can will take six posts, so I should have it all up by the end of next week. In the meantime I am now writing the next chapter. So hopefully that will be done by the time I finish posting the current one.

I second everything SubRosa says about characters, and will add that it's also important to have the characters *around* your main characters come across as real and believable, even if you have much less space to flesh them out - all the main-character-development in the world is going to fall flat if it seems like the world around them is full of cardboard cut-outs who revolve only around the MC. The best plot, IMHO, is one that arises naturally from your different characters and their ambitions and goals, and there's little I dislike more than reading a story where it feels like the characters are being bent to follow the plot than the other way around.

As far as writing goes, I figure it depends on how you write? For instance, if you know you can churn out, say, 3-4k words of story every week with only rare exceptions, then posting as soon as you finish writing is doable. However, my writing is far more erratic than that, so I need a buffer. Another danger of posting as you go along is that when you write later bits you might come up with ideas or change your mind on some things which makes previously written material wrong. If you've already posted things that are now inaccurate, this can be pretty frustrating. I know some people refuse to post at all until they've finished the entire story because of this.

Relatedly, something I've been meaning to ask is what size chunks people like to post or read? Lately I've been doing around 1.5k-2k in mine, SubRosa's said she posts 2k-3k...

As a writer and reader, I prefer episodes of 1-2K posted once or twice a week. My average is around 1600 words and I think you will find SubRosa's average episode length to be very similar. To me, the ideal episode would be 1200 words.

Sometimes it is necessary to go above 2K for a variety of reasons, but I try to avoid it as it invites skimming. I find that when I exceed 2K for an occasional episode it is usually to 'finish' something that began in the same episode - that if not finished would invite undesired or off track speculation. Building to an emotional crescendo can tempt us to run long as well, but I generally find that if I really want to deliver an emotional impact, I actually try very hard to keep the episode under 1K.

As far as the writing process, I 'storyboard' notes to describe concepts, waypoints or scenes out over hundreds of potential episodes - sort of a rough outline. As time draws closer, I transition upcoming aspects of the storyboard to draft prose. I try to work 6-10 episodes ahead in actual draft. I find that by keeping the more distant scenes in storyboard format until within a month or two of posting, it facilitates long range planning and avoids conflicts while allowing plenty of flexibility.

Yeah, I fall in the first camp here. I tried to write ahead by several chapters but it just doesn't work for me. My favorite thing about writing for the forums is that sense of immediacy you get from the endeavor. Most of what I write occurs in a vacuum of (over)planning and revision, all of it pretty much on my own. Here I can let my hair down (so to speak) and allow the story to reveal itself to me as it reveals itself to the reader.


I'd say that anywhere in there would be fine. You want enough to give us a hearty meal upon reading, but not so much that we decide to skim the fat and feed it to the dog. Only you can determine your own perfect length. Someone who isn't as adept with word choice as Acadian would find 1200 a stifling word count.

Thanks for the feedback, all!



Ooh, that's a good pro for posting immediately that I hadn't thought of. It's been frustrating me that now all the stuff I'm posting and am getting beautiful feedback on is from what I wrote years ago, and the bits I'm writing now - where I'd really like to both show off the bits I'm proud of and check whether the things I'm unsure about work for people - I probably won't be posting for two months at this kind of update speed. And of course that's unavoidable if you post with a multi-chapter buffer.

Okay, I have a conundrum here. I have a piece of drafting that doesn't really seem to fit in anywhere in my grand scheme... but at the same time I don't want to get rid of it.

So... help?

It is hard to give a very specific answer without more details. But just speaking in general, write it. Write anything that moves you to do so. Even if you never post it. The more practice you get, the better you become.

One of the most helpful tools I have is a file named “Jerric’s Story Didn’t Use.” It’s mostly scenes that I wrote and then cut from the story, either in the last edits or from the outline when I wrote too far ahead. (There is more written from Darnand’s POV in this file than in the posted story.)Keeping the material somewhere makes it easier for me to trim it, so I can go ahead and write out the ideas that sort of seize me without worrying too much first about whether they’ll fit.

As SageRosa said, practice makes you better. I don’t regret a single hour that I have spent writing, whether or not the material gets posted in any form.

I agree with SubRosa and Grits and I'll add that I go as far as to save, somewhere, fleeting thoughts or single sentences. Technology obviously makes this much easier, back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth I had a notebook that had as many napkins and pieces of brown paper bag as it did regular paper. The benefit to me, sometimes a single sentence can shake you out of a black hole.

I have few "rules" when it comes to writing- but one of the few is:

Write EVERYTHING down!

If an idea, a sentence, a word- grabs you- there is a reason. It may never "fit" with the story you are currently working on- or it may. If you do not keep it, you will never know. Sometimes an idea or an image is so compelling that it becomes worth your while to figure out how to "get there from here."

At worst, it may become a seed for something new.

Thanks for the advice, all.

I've moved the passage to a newly created "Cut Content" file to keep on hand in case a better context comes up for it later on, or if I choose to do a between-chapters interlude, or whatever else comes to mind.

That's what I did with Blanco's interlude in OHDH. I wrote it while the story online was still in the first Oblivion Gate stage, because I couldn't get that damn white horse out of my mind. When I promised him that it would be put in at the right point, he settled down and waited as patiently as Old Paint.

I've been in this situation before - I'd be hard at work on one story, and the creative juices just divert themselves to a new idea or a different concept. All I can do is write it down, put it aside, and find my focus again on the WIP. It helps to refocus if you write the distractions down and get them out of your head (like Boxee and his plot bunnies).

*nods* Sometimes I get seized by things that are far in the future for Adryn and end up going "no, it's not your turn yet!" but later regretting that, when I have to write it when the enthusiasm's gone out of it. The installment I'm just starting to post now took me <em>ages</em> to write, because at one point the idea just grabbed me but then I was still writing an earlier section and wanted to proceed in linear continuous fashion! and by the time I actually reached it that was gone and I really struggled with the dialogue and everything. So now I have some documents marked "Adryn - snippets" in my SitC folder; I know that often I'll need to rewrite chunks of it by the time I actually get there because I'll have changed things around in the intervening time or maybe toss the whole thing altogether, but that's better than the alternative.

...also, there's an idea ghosting around my head that I might eventually write if it solidifies more which is actually a crack DnD/Morrowind crossover set in Adrynverse. Chances of that ever making it into SitC are just about *zero* but it's fun!

I do that too. For Wrothken's stuff I have a doc for the current chapter and then another one where I store all past chapters and at the bottom are little reminders or full scenes I have planned for the future. Only bad part is I get sucked into some of those and neglect the current one

Does anyone sit there and go right I have a start, middle and finish of this section, and then as you're writing, everything gets so far apart that you can barely imagine finishing the thing?...Or is everyone so disciplined that it all comes out just the way you thought?... ...

Restraining myself from laughing hysterically- NOT at you- or at anyone else who actually has a.... plan or... discipline. Just trying to apply those terms to my own method.

What I have discovered is that my plans end up having almost nothing to do with the reality. And the stories are better for it.... The word I use is "organic." And while that COULD imply that my writing might be useful as compost, in this case... it means that the stories have a tendency to GROW in unexpected ways.

So- short answer- the current story started with the beginning and the ending. For the rest it was kind of like- well, let's see what happens. And then... well then, Athynae happened.

For writing, there are as many ways of "doing it right" as there are writers. To add to my rule above (write everything down)- there is this one- HAVE FUN! And you know, those may be the only rules for writing I can think of.

I tried planning large portions in advance... that got me nowhere fast.

I work much more in the short-term now. All I define in the broad spectrum is where I want things to start, who the Big Bad is, and how things will end. Then I just let the tale write itself from prelude to conclusion. My individual segments tend to follow a similar style as well, except replacing the Big Bad with whatever I want to happen at that time. I then keep track of what has happened to determine when and where I can make something else happen for it to carry weight with the readers. Pacing is everything. Don't bore your readers with endless heart-to-hearts and one-on-ones, but at the same time don't tire them out with chapter after chapter of nonstop action.

Keep all channels open for ideas, and let your characters direct your fingers on the keyboard. The rest will come through time, patience, and a lot of editing.

I usually end up rewriting large portions of my conversations up to three times before I finally feel it is "right." As in right, I mean everything comes naturally, there are no breaks in character, and it doesn't feel like anything is being forced along.

My problem has always been time. Time and procrastination. I've always been meaning to go back to my old story The Interim and re-write it. It's...got problems, to put it mildly. There are parts of it that I can't even bear to read. I could do it a thousand times better now.

But now I don't have the time - largely because I kept putting it off when I DID have the time. And now it might never end up getting done. So yeah...my advice: just suck it up and do it. Not very profound, but more difficult than it sounds if you're like me.

What NOT to do is what I just did.

Since Skyrim is approaching, and I'd only played and modded Oblivion, I thought I'd try something earlier. Morrowind is still theoretically for sale, but I can't find a copy in the shops. So I download Daggerfall and install it. I want to play my fave Oblivion character, Blossom, but you can't play an Orc in Daggerfall. So I start modding the game so I can.



Then I have to make some more clothes and armor for her, and look at how the quest system works, and ...

I just stopped myself from re-installing MS Visual Studio so I could rewrite a save game editor that wasn't working properly.

I just caught back up on the stories I've been reading, now to catch up on what I was writing!

*Attempts to wrench eyes away from Orc in thigh high boots and thong... ...*...

Aye, the only reason I plan is 'cause of something I read in the Terry Brooks book "Sometimes The Magic Happens". He says in it that he gets totally lost if he just leaves the plot wandering ...So he has the beginning, middle and end. He also has every character with names that will turn up, and all the rest of it. I'm not going to be that strict but I appreciate what you said about different styles for different writers and all that.

Oh, and the time thing...I have two hours to write in during the day...And that's if I get up at an ungodly hour...Which I haven't for the last two days...I hate that...*Wails* I wanna be young again!!!.... ...Too busy in work and stuff...Too tired!!...*Goes off to make coffee...*...

Urgh... ...