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mirocu
Donīt count on it laugh.gif

What is an 8-puzzle anyway...? hehe.gif
Callidus Thorn
Evenin' all
mirocu
Eveninī. Eveninī.

VtM:B reference... biggrin.gif
Callidus Thorn
You and your references...

laugh.gif
mirocu
I know, canīt help it! wacko.gif
Callidus Thorn
I've heard others say the same
mirocu
rollinglaugh.gif
Callidus Thorn
Ooh, a change of sig?
mirocu
Yeah, I came up with the rhyme and liked it instantly biggrin.gif
Callidus Thorn
QUOTE(mirocu @ Feb 16 2014, 10:10 PM) *

Yeah, I came up with the rhyme and liked it instantly biggrin.gif


So why Odin?

Is it just because you're Swedish, so viking.gif?
mirocu
Because Iīm not a christian, thatīs why biggrin.gif
Callidus Thorn
QUOTE(mirocu @ Feb 16 2014, 10:14 PM) *

Because Iīm not a christian, thatīs why biggrin.gif


So it's lack of Christianity + "insert region appropriate deity here"?
mirocu
Pretty much laugh.gif

Tbt I donīt worship anything but if I should put a deity in the slogan it might as well be Odin. Too many would have used God there anyway tongue.gif
Callidus Thorn
QUOTE(mirocu @ Feb 16 2014, 10:17 PM) *

Pretty much laugh.gif


Fair enough

QUOTE(mirocu @ Feb 16 2014, 10:17 PM) *

Tbt I donīt worship anything but if I should put a deity in the slogan it might as well be Odin. Too many would have used God there anyway tongue.gif


So you're an atheist?

I definitely agree with the latter part though. laugh.gif
mirocu
QUOTE(Callidus Thorn @ Feb 16 2014, 11:21 PM) *

So you're an atheist?

I guess. I donīt see any reason to worship anything.

Should I do it because otherwise I would be punished? Then itīs no different from obeying a dictator. Should I do it because I benefit from it? No different from any other business deal then.

So you see, I got it covered biggrin.gif
Callidus Thorn
That's certainly one way of looking at it laugh.gif
mirocu
tongue.gif

So whatchya doing?
Callidus Thorn
Not much really.

Reading a fanfic, and that's pretty much it.

*shrugs*

You?
mirocu
Iīve been listening to some tunes whilst playing chess and now itīs time to hit the sack. Got a new day tomorrow and I gotta be ready for some gaming again biggrin.gif
Callidus Thorn
Heh, I'm always ready to game, sleep or no tongue.gif

Later
mirocu
Laters! biggrin.gif


sleep.gif
Kiln
QUOTE(mirocu @ Feb 16 2014, 10:26 PM) *

QUOTE(Callidus Thorn @ Feb 16 2014, 11:21 PM) *

So you're an atheist?

I guess. I donīt see any reason to worship anything.

Should I do it because otherwise I would be punished? Then itīs no different from obeying a dictator. Should I do it because I benefit from it? No different from any other business deal then.

So you see, I got it covered biggrin.gif

I'm an atheist as well. After reading the bible extensively, I just can't believe there is anything more to religion than childish stories.

I'm not out to offend anybody but for me, logic and science are god.
Elisabeth Hollow
QUOTE(Kiln @ Feb 16 2014, 05:20 PM) *

QUOTE(mirocu @ Feb 16 2014, 10:26 PM) *

QUOTE(Callidus Thorn @ Feb 16 2014, 11:21 PM) *

So you're an atheist?

I guess. I donīt see any reason to worship anything.

Should I do it because otherwise I would be punished? Then itīs no different from obeying a dictator. Should I do it because I benefit from it? No different from any other business deal then.

So you see, I got it covered biggrin.gif

I'm an atheist as well. After reading the bible extensively, I just can't believe there is anything more to religion than childish stories.

I'm not out to offend anybody but for me, logic and science are god.

HELLO BROTHERS IN NON-BELIEF lol
King Of Beasts
No offense to anybody, but most of the stories in the bible are completely unrealistic
Callidus Thorn
Heh, I was raised Christian, but never believed in God. Was an atheist for years, didn't really think the concept of deities or destiny was anything really.

Once I got interested in runes and started reading about them, and by extension Norse religion and mythology, it got a bit complicated.

These days I just don't know anymore.

Elisabeth Hollow
Honestly, it really doesn't matter to me. If there are gods, there are gods. If there aren't, then there aren't. I live my life as unselfishly as possible, be as good of a person as I can, enjoy myself if I can, and am raising my son to understand that everyone has a different path, and they can choose to take whatever one they want, it's of no consequence to him. Our lives are our own stories, and we are allowed to author our own books.
Vital
Religion is when smart people say very meaningful things and stupid people take it too literally...
Elisabeth Hollow
Eeeeeeeeek Snuggles is watching Monster's Inc and is sooooo cute!
SubRosa
The way I see it, religion works either one of two ways. Either it serves you, or you serve it. Religions and their associated myths are symbols which can help us in our lives by giving us examples of how to deal with life and its associated crap. For example, Innana's descent into the Underworld, or Christ on the cross, can help us deal with sacrifice. We don't have to be flayed alive and hung on a hook to know what pain and helplessness feel. But we can look to how they dealt with it, and it can help us deal with our own problems.

Or religion can be powerful force in the domination of humanity. You can tell when this is the case because it usually starts with a formally established hierarchy (i.e. a priesthood). Then said priests tell people that they must go through them in order to interface with the divine. Soon they want people's money, because those temples don't come cheap. Then it tells them how they must think, feel, and behave, or else... Finally to insure its hold on power, it incites people to imprison, torture, and kill anyone belonging to a different religion, or none at all.

As Joseph Campbell wrote: "I'm calling a symbol a sign that points past itself to a ground of meaning and being that is one with the consciousness of the beholder. What you're learning in myth is about yourself as part of the being of the world. If it talks not about you, finally, but about something out there, then it's short. There's that wonderful phase I got from Karlfried Graf Durkheim, "transparency to the transcendent." If a deity blocks off transcendency, cuts you short of it by stopping at himself, he turns you into a worshiper and a devotee, and he hasn't opened the mystery of your own being."

Any time a religion is not about you, then it is not serving you.

Me, I am a deeply religious person. I also think that Atheism is one of the best things to ever happen to humanity.
Elisabeth Hollow
Atheism is the best thing to ever happen to me, actually. I was miserable when I followed God. I held myself painfully accountable to the point where I never wanted to go outside because I was so terrified of sinning. And when I met my husband, he showed me that I don't have to be a Christian to be a good person. Of course, growing up thinking anyone who wasn't a Christian was going to hell, I struggled with the thought that maybe I myself was going for sinning.

I drank. I smoked. I did whatever was handed to me and whatever my friends did. And I had a blast. But once I came down, I was miserable. And at 16, 17 and 18 that's not a good thing.

I tried different religions, Buddhism mostly opening my eyes to the thought that hey, guilt is something I'm causing myself to things i already did, things I can't change, so why dwell? That I needed to keep my mind open and do better next time.

I no longer practice anything in particular, but celebrate the holidays on a whim. And it's so freeing to think that I can mess up phenomenally and there's not a damned higher being in the universe that will care. I am not responsible for or indentured to any cosmic being and that's so wonderful for me. I can do what I want! And you know what I want to do? Make this place better. Raise my son to be a good person and not a bigoted jerkwad. I wanna help those who ask for it, if I can. I don't LIKE being obligated to do things, I like WANTING to be a decent person.

Now I have the freedom to do just that.
Rohirrim
Um, I'm actually an atheist too. I haven't told my parents yet, probably gonna wait until I graduate.
King Of Beasts
QUOTE(Rohirrim @ Feb 16 2014, 09:50 PM) *

Um, I'm actually an atheist too. I haven't told my parents yet, probably gonna wait until I graduate.


That would be a good idea
Kiln
Kind of surprising to find that so many of you guys don't practice a religion. I will say though that I'm glad to find that people can have this discussion here without problems. Most forums can't say the same.

Like Liz, I have also found freedom from religion liberating. Even when I was a practicing christian I always questioned the stories and the lack of proof was also an issue. When I asked legitimate questions about the bible (why aren't prayers answered overtly like they were in the bible? Why doesn't god speak to people now?) people got angry. You're supposed to accept the book as truth without questioning it and I could never get in line with that.

It really is the only aspect of life that I can think of where you're taught not to question or think critically.
Rohirrim
QUOTE(Kiln @ Feb 16 2014, 10:07 PM) *

Kind of surprising to find that so many of you guys don't practice a religion. I will say though that I'm glad to find that people can have this discussion here without problems. Most forums can't say the same.

Like Liz, I have also found freedom from religion liberating. Even when I was a practicing christian I always questioned the stories and the lack of proof was also an issue. When I asked legitimate questions about the bible (why aren't prayers answered overtly like they were in the bible? Why doesn't god speak to people now?) people got angry. You're supposed to accept the book as truth without questioning it and I could never get in line with that.

It really is the only aspect of life that I can think of where you're taught not to question or think critically.

Yeah, I find the bible and most aspects of Christianity like that. We were discussing "papal infallibility" in class, and I asked a question: If the pope is infallible when speaking on faith and morals, why has the Church changed its mind on things like the Crusades?"

Teacher: "Oh, he wasn't speaking on faith or morals."

I could not stop myself from yelling "HOW?!"
King Of Beasts
I had an aunt who was extremely catholic, and she'd read the bible and read bible stories to me when I went to bed, and make me go to church, and was always giving me these religious magazines laugh.gif
Kiln
I'm kind of having this issue right now. The problem is with my son, who is six months old. My parents and my wife's parents are very religious but my wife and I are both former christians turned atheist.

My mother and mother in law are bombarding me with religious baby books and similarly themed items in an attempt to push my son into religion. I'm not a dictator, I want him to make his own choices, but I'm not sure whether he'll be able to do that with all of these reading materials and bible themed toys being forced onto him.

It'll be a long time before it matters but I don't want him to be forced either way.

King Of Beasts
That Jacob's ladder toy is actually kinda fun to play with laugh.gif
SubRosa
QUOTE(Kiln @ Feb 16 2014, 10:07 PM) *

Kind of surprising to find that so many of you guys don't practice a religion. I will say though that I'm glad to find that people can have this discussion here without problems. Most forums can't say the same.

Like Liz, I have also found freedom from religion liberating.

What I find most liberating about the lack of religion is that it places personal responsibility where it belongs, in the hands of the individual. If we win a football game it is not due to the intervention of Jesus (really, is the Superbowl really that super?), and when we do something bad, it is not because the Devil made us. Religions are great at making excuses for the worst of human behaviour, including the very things they tell people not to ever do. Aetheism forces everyone to own up to everything they do, good or bad.



QUOTE(Kiln @ Feb 16 2014, 10:07 PM) *

Even when I was a practicing christian I always questioned the stories and the lack of proof was also an issue. When I asked legitimate questions about the bible (why aren't prayers answered overtly like they were in the bible? Why doesn't god speak to people now?) people got angry. You're supposed to accept the book as truth without questioning it and I could never get in line with that.

It really is the only aspect of life that I can think of where you're taught not to question or think critically.

That is the nature of all Revealed Religions. By deciding that the validity of their religion lies within a written text(s), they become hidebound to those books. When thousands of years go by and people begin to figure out how thing work in the world (a.k.a. science), we see all the holes in those books. But the religions cannot adapt, because they have tied themselves to those ancient books. If they say what it is in them does not really matter, then they have started down the very slippery slope of nothing in their religion mattering.

The flip side to this are Mystery Traditions, which do not have dogma. The validity of them lies entirely within each individual and their experience. Because every person is different, everyone's experience is also different. So even in the same Mystery Tradition, no two people see things exactly the same. Also because they are all about you, they are a major case of Your Mileage May Vary. The proof in them is "did you feel something?" If yes you are set. If no, it is time to move on.
Elisabeth Hollow
You know what I'm doing, Kiln? My family "knows" I'm not religious or a Christian.(Considering my mother confiscated my tarot deck while I was pregnant with my son, yeah, she knows)

And they used to ask me when I was gonna send him to Sunday school. I had to tell them to back off, in those words. I told them "I am not religious, nor am I a Christian. If you want to see him, you'll back off of that topic. We aren't doing that. If he wants to do that later in life,great, but MY job is not to raise a good christian boy, it's to raise a decent person, and I will be doing that without religion."

I allow religious material in my house. I'm not objecting it. Veggietales is a Christian kid's show, and he loves it. He has a book of Bible stories he likes. But I also have a small Buddha statue, and that's about it.

I don't want him to grow up thinking "If I do this, God will punish me" or "This deity will curse me" or whatever. I want him to find his own joy in making people happy. Luckily my husband's parents beleive in God, but they don't like to preach, to be preached to, and don't mind when I say "Happy Yule!"

And we take holidays for what they are: holidays. Easter is when Christians celebrate the ressurection of Jesus and when Pagans celebrate spring and fertility. Either way, an egg hunt happens lol

Christmas is the winter solstice and the birth of Jesus. We do different sides of the coin. Looking into religions, I've found out that each one is a rich and wonderful ideal with the same concept: To be the very best you can be. Some just get lost along the way, and forget there are different paths to the same goal.
Kiln
Subrosa: I definitely agree with your first point and can understand the second one. Accountability is important to me and I adhere to a strict moral code, I just rely on my own honor to enforce it and not guilt that I may be punished when I die.

Liz: Your route may be the same one I take as well. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
mirocu
QUOTE(Kiln @ Feb 17 2014, 04:07 AM) *

Like Liz, I have also found freedom from religion liberating. Even when I was a practicing christian I always questioned the stories and the lack of proof was also an issue. When I asked legitimate questions about the bible (why aren't prayers answered overtly like they were in the bible? Why doesn't god speak to people now?) people got angry. You're supposed to accept the book as truth without questioning it and I could never get in line with that.

Same here. Either they got angry or simply couldnīt give me an answer. Itīs like politics today; just accept what they say on the news. Donīt ask any questions. Just obey.

Not me nono.gif


I was never asked to be born so why should I do what some vague god tells me to do? Why should I let anyone/anything rule my life? Why should I decipher some hidden meaning in a book? No, I rule my life and thatīs it. Besides, what if I follow the god in the bible and it turns out to be an evil demon and not a good god at all? Who am I to tell which is which with all the horrible things depicted in the bible?

Though I am trying to be good because I know others will be happy and that makes me happy. Plus, I do have a few Bible games I can play... biggrin.gif
Vital
I'm an atheist in a family that I would describe as Anglican-agnostic. My mum will drag us to church on Christmas and Easter but apart from that we don't really practice. I go to a catholic school though, simply because they provide a better education than public but at a fraction of the cost of a normal private school. Besides they have to maintain at least 10% non-catholic. The school teaches religion as a subject, but it gets less bible-heavy each year and in grade 11 it's elective.

I believe in many of the Christian values (and many other religious values) but don't do them for the good of some higher being, I do them for myself and others. In fact of all the religions I am familiar with, Buddhism promotes one of the best messages: the middle path. Don't impoverish yourself for a god someone else, but also don't love an over-excessive lifestyle.

Also, can I just say how nice it is to have a mature conversation on such a controversial topic over the internet. Truly refreshing smile.gif
mirocu
QUOTE(Vital @ Feb 17 2014, 09:59 AM) *

Also, can I just say how nice it is to have a mature conversation on such a controversial topic over the internet. Truly refreshing smile.gif

Itīs because weīre all heathens rollinglaugh.gif
Vital
rollinglaugh.gif

Reasonable heathens*
mirocu
So, I just applied for work again with my old bosses. They didnīt have any for me and they basically said they donīt want to hire anyone ever, but it was a nice chat and it was good to see them again and the new storage space they had built smile.gif
Callidus Thorn
So, question for the thread:

Does anyone read newspapers?

Personally I've given upon reading them, it's all either depressing news or political BS and blame games.


Why am I asking?

I'm just curious, noticed yesterday's newspaper sat nearby and thought ugh.

*shrugs*
mirocu
I havenīt read any news paper since I... Wait. Iīve never even started to read them blink.gif And because of the reasons you stated. Well, I have of course glanced to get the idea but like news on TV all theyīre full of is BE AFRAID OF THIS AND THIS AND THIS AND DONīT FORGET THIS BRAND NEW PANDEMIC!!! panic.gif panic.gif


No thanks. Keep that stuff away from me.
King Of Beasts
Yeah, all that's on the news is war and famine, and this child was kidnapped, and this man was murdered, and this woman was raped, and this bank was robbed, and there's an escaped madman from a mental asylum on the loose, or a prisoner escaped, or we're in threat of a nuclear attack, etc. the news is just depressing.
mirocu
Better to be here and have fun biggrin.gif
King Of Beasts
Exactly laugh.gif
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